habs rule Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 He still took players back though. It's not like we're just going to clear Desharnais and Eller's cap hit. Who even wants either of them for the money they're making? I guess the one year remaining for both helps. Anybody who could dump bourqe should be able to get rid of those 2 but Le Genius will never let his favorite son go. So let's send him too, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 It would be tough to move DD,Eller, and Emelin without bringing some type of cap hit in return. Completely true, Gorges went for nothing but a second though. Bourque and Moen took back big contracts though, Allen and Gonchar respectively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Completely true, Gorges went for nothing but a second though. Bourque and Moen took back big contracts though, Allen and Gonchar respectively Gonchar was the biggest waste of money I have ever seen. Let's not do that again. I really don't care who Le Genius likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gonchar was the biggest waste of money I have ever seen. Let's not do that again. I really don't care who Le Genius likes. Gonchar? You don't recall Gomez, Staal, Lacavalielle, Yashin etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gonchar? You don't recall Gomez, Staal, Lacavalielle, Yashin etc etc ya got me there I wasn't thinking about the Alaskan Mexican Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gonchar was the biggest waste of money I have ever seen. Let's not do that again. I really don't care who Le Genius likes. Gonchar was spending on the cap for one season so we could dump Moen who had a two year contract. I don't call that a waste. Same thing we did with Allen/Bourque. We took shorter term, but more money over one year, to clear the second year on those deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gonchar was spending on the cap for one season so we could dump Moen who had a two year contract. I don't call that a waste. Same thing we did with Allen/Bourque. We took shorter term, but more money over one year, to clear the second year on those deals. Gonchar wasn't worth the price of a cup of coffee at my restaurant. But hey it is just my opinion, you think different, that is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gonchar not only played reasonably well for us, he also was a valuable mentor/voice of reason/professional example for Nate B. Not a waste at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gonchar got overplayed by Therrien and eventually burned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gonchar got overplayed by Therrien and eventually burned out. Gonchar was burned out when we got him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Looking back on all the moves Bergevin has made, none really look that good. I'm still not even sold on Petry. It makes you wonder if Bergevin is even the real deal. All he does is tinker with the line up. He's yet to make any actual impact on this team with a signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Looking back on all the moves Bergevin has made, none really look that good. I'm still not even sold on Petry. It makes you wonder if Bergevin is even the real deal. All he does is tinker with the line up. He's yet to make any actual impact on this team with a signing. Keep in mind that Petry played through injury for most of this season. He looked every bit worth his contract at the start of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Gonchar wasn't worth the price of a cup of coffee at my restaurant. But hey it is just my opinion, you think different, that is ok. What was Moen worth? When you trade a negative value asset, what do you expect back? Keep in mind that Petry played through injury for most of this season. He looked every bit worth his contract at the start of the season. Yeah I'm good with Petry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Who over committed to moen? What was Moen worth? When you trade a negative value asset, what do you expect back? Yeah I'm good with Petry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Who over committed to moen? So a GM isn't allowed to correct a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Seems like most of MB's "good" moves are correcting his own mistakes: - dumping Moen after giving an unwarranted extension -demoting tokarski who proved how useless he was last year in favor of a rookie and later probably the worst minor league goalie available -dumping Prust after over-committing and overpaying him -dumping a washed up Briere who should never have been signed -buying out PAP who was brought in as the price for dumping Briere -dumping his gamble kassian for a backup goalie scrivens -dumping scrivens who didn't even belong in the NHL -dumping his gamble Semin after his coach really didn't give him an extended opportunity -can't remember if the Douglas useless Murray was his mistake or his predessor -skimping on signing Subban to an extension so he could have the money to sign the aforementioned worthless Briere and othe useless bums and than having to make Subban the highest paid Dmen in the league (based on cap hit) Seems like he spends a lot if time cleaning up his own bargain basement mess. The mess he hasn't cleaned up: -dumping his buddy Lefebve for 4 worthless years in the AHL - not holding his coaching staff accountable for one of the biggest collapses in franchise history So a GM isn't allowed to correct a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 You've listed a lot of mistakes there that aren't really mistakes though. I've said it before, CC has said it before, so have numerous others. Is signing a guy like Prust a mistake? Yeah in year four he wasn't worth the money... but in years one and two he was worth what we paid and more. If you sign a guy to a four year deal and year four is an issue, the overall value of the deal isn't bad. And sure you can say, yeah but he should have given less term, but if you don't offer term you don't get the player to begin with. Its the cost of doing business in the free agent market place. You either give term or don't get the player. So how is trading him in year four cleaning up a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 With prust, year 3 was the issue. We dumped him for year 4. So for a guy like Proust, we actually gave him 2 years two many, not 1. I call briere a huge mistake and said so at the time. Ditto with moen. You've listed a lot of mistakes there that aren't really mistakes though. I've said it before, CC has said it before, so have numerous others. Is signing a guy like Prust a mistake? Yeah in year four he wasn't worth the money... but in years one and two he was worth what we paid and more. If you sign a guy to a four year deal and year four is an issue, the overall value of the deal isn't bad. And sure you can say, yeah but he should have given less term, but if you don't offer term you don't get the player to begin with. Its the cost of doing business in the free agent market place. You either give term or don't get the player. So how is trading him in year four cleaning up a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 That's a nice list by Habs29. Most of those are indeed mistakes, but they're quite minor mistakes that really didn't hurt us much. E.g., Prust's contract may have been bad by Year 3, but since we dumped the contract for Year Four we basically went 2 for 3 with Prust. That's fine. Besides, what's more significant, the minor mistake, or the deftness with which MB has cleaned up most of them? We also have to consider good moves. Vanek was a coup. Petry was also a coup, and likely signed for less than he'd have gotten on the open market, although we forget this. He locked up Price and Pacioretty to excellent contracts. This is why I say it's just too soon to reach definitive conclusions about MB. He's mostly tinkered with the roster. Some attack him for that, complaining that he hasn't "put his stamp" on the team. I maintain that it's a foolish leader who make moves just to "put their stamp" on something, and that he has been wise to bide his time. This past season was probably when he planned to make a more significant move (likely prior to the deadline). That plan was kiboshed by the Price injury. So, the Major Moves got pushed back a year. It's 2016-17 that will tell the tale of whether Bergie can make us contenders or not. The rest is just minor details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 That's a nice list by Habs29. Most of those are indeed mistakes, but they're quite minor mistakes that really didn't hurt us much. E.g., Prust's contract may have been bad by Year 3, but since we dumped the contract for Year Four we basically went 2 for 3 with Prust. That's fine. Besides, what's more significant, the minor mistake, or the deftness with which MB has cleaned up most of them? We also have to consider good moves. Vanek was a coup. Petry was also a coup, and likely signed for less than he'd have gotten on the open market, although we forget this. He locked up Price and Pacioretty to excellent contracts. This is why I say it's just too soon to reach definitive conclusions about MB. He's mostly tinkered with the roster. Some attack him for that, complaining that he hasn't "put his stamp" on the team. I maintain that it's a foolish leader who make moves just to "put their stamp" on something, and that he has been wise to bide his time. This past season was probably when he planned to make a more significant move (likely prior to the deadline). That plan was kiboshed by the Price injury. So, the Major Moves got pushed back a year. It's 2016-17 that will tell the tale of whether Bergie can make us contenders or not. The rest is just minor details. I don't buy that. What if Price goes down again next season around Christmas ? We push back the major moves again ? And again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I don't buy that. What if Price goes down again next season around Christmas ? We push back the major moves again ? And again ? So you want Bergevin to go out and acquire a legitimate #1 goaltender in case Price suffers another season-ending injury? Sounds like an awesome use of cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I don't think that's exactly what Joe was getting at. It's scary to think what will happen if Price does go down again though. 3 of the last 4 seasons he's had some type of injury. I guess you can't run an organization on what ifs, but Bergevin seriously can't risk another year of sub par Goaltending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I don't think that's exactly what Joe was getting at. It's scary to think what will happen if Price does go down again though. 3 of the last 4 seasons he's had some type of injury. I guess you can't run an organization on what ifs, but Bergevin seriously can't risk another year of sub par Goaltending. I guess I just accept that fact that this team is built around Carey Price. If he goes down, it's pretty hard to imagine a scenario where we win the Cup. And whether or not we add a couple of good players is unlikely to change that equation. In a cap system you generally can't protect yourself against the worst-case scenario. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I don't think that's exactly what Joe was getting at. It's scary to think what will happen if Price does go down again though. 3 of the last 4 seasons he's had some type of injury. I guess you can't run an organization on what ifs, but Bergevin seriously can't risk another year of sub par Goaltending.You're right. What I meant is that Bergevin can't wait forever waiting for the stars to be aligned before making his major moves (if he ever makes some). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 I guess I just accept that fact that this team is built around Carey Price. If he goes down, it's pretty hard to imagine a scenario where we win the Cup. And whether or not we add a couple of good players is unlikely to change that equation. In a cap system you generally can't protect yourself against the worst-case scenario. Ok so we all know that we build from the goaltender out. Condon will be a good backup goaltender. He will never be Carey Price. About that building thing, do you think that if we could score .5 more goals per game we would win more games? Of course we would. So we need offence and a new coach who actually understands that scoring goals is important. We Have the best goalie in the world, so how about we find 1 or 2 guys who can score. The best that Carey can do is a 0-0 in regulation, they won't let him past the centre ice line. Oh yeah and get rid this idiot behind the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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