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2013 World Juniors Thread


dlbalr

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Team USA against Canada next game...cool !

Galchenyuk had some ice time but it just doesn't work like he could just have the feeling he could

do much more but it's not.

I know he plays wing at Sarnia too but i think his hockey IQ would be better used at C than wing,

Anyway i hope Habs will be patient with him, develop him as a center.

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What I meant was that PG should not have traded clammy unless the intent was to load up on high picks - last year was a lost cause. I also think Bergevin should have tried to pick up another 1st at the draft. I think we had some pieces to move, as well as picks. I really liked grinko and when he slid so far, I was really hoping we would have tried.

And who's to say he didn't? It had been reported that the Habs were trying to get back into the 1st round in the later stages (Matteau was thought to be the target but I'm not so sure, I think that may have been a fabrication of local media - personally I think Collberg was the target) and couldn't get anyone to bite so it's reasonable to imagine he may have tried earlier when a guy like Teravainen (a Timmins favourite) was sliding down.

As for Galchenyuk, unofficial reports (since ice time isn't tracked by the IIHF) had his ice time today around the 10-12 minute range. That's ridiculous, it just keeps going lower and lower...and he's still tied for the team lead in points.

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I agree that Grig will be a very good player. Toronto needs to give their head a shake for not taking him. Not to say Reilly isn't a good draft pick but he wasn't a need like Grig.

I am sorry to say, but i think Reilly will be one super d-man and a pain in the ass for the Habs for a long time.

Bob McKenzie nailed both picks; he had Reilly at #4 and Grigorenko at #12 and 11 other scouting staffs agreed.

And Reilly has zero chance of skipping to KHL if he ever gets disgruntled, which cant be said for the russian.

Could Grigorenko be the next Gaborick (or Filatov), for sure could be, but draft is always a crap shoot and i wouldnt say Leafs screwed up quite yet.

But with Biggs, yes i think they wasted a 1st round pick on a bottom six checker, if that.

Now Collberg, he may be much more of a steal than most at the world juniors, as a 2nd rounder, leading his team with 3 goals (on only 7 shots); whereas Forsberg has 2 goals on 24 shots.

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And who's to say he didn't? It had been reported that the Habs were trying to get back into the 1st round in the later stages (Matteau was thought to be the target but I'm not so sure, I think that may have been a fabrication of local media - personally I think Collberg was the target) and couldn't get anyone to bite so it's reasonable to imagine he may have tried earlier when a guy like Teravainen (a Timmins favourite) was sliding down.

As for Galchenyuk, unofficial reports (since ice time isn't tracked by the IIHF) had his ice time today around the 10-12 minute range. That's ridiculous, it just keeps going lower and lower...and he's still tied for the team lead in points.

How can anyone complain about 2012 Hab draft? Holy crap, what more do people want?

I would of traded Cammalleri for a bag of pucks, but i simply couldnt stand his soft play with zero production. Softest player in the league, way overpaid for less than 20goals/year, sucks to be Flames.

Hab fans want AG to play alot, but USA is in the semi-finals and for Housley that is bottom line i would guess. 1 more game and AG will be headed back home, hope he lights up Subban in a loss.

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Hab fans want AG to play alot, but USA is in the semi-finals and for Housley that is bottom line i would guess. 1 more game and AG will be headed back home, hope he lights up Subban in a loss.

He and Collberg both have two games left either way. If they win, they're in the Gold Medal game; if they lose, they'll go for bronze.

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He and Collberg both have two games left either way. If they win, they're in the Gold Medal game; if they lose, they'll go for bronze.

of course, forgot bout Bronze game.

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I would of traded Cammalleri for a bag of pucks, but i simply couldnt stand his soft play with zero production. Softest player in the league, way overpaid for less than 20goals/year, sucks to be Flames.

This. And his 1,12 ppg in playoffs with the Habs.

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To my mind Cammy faced a simple problem in Montreal. He signed here in part because he wanted to be on a team with an elite PP quarterback, and he knew that Markov was such a guy. Unfortunately Markov hardly played at all during Cammy's time here. Wiz papered things over for one season, but once he left, the whole logic behind Cammy's desire to play here was gone. This partly explains his poor production last season - the PP was garbage, primarily due to the lack of Markov. (This lack of PP success is THE overriding reason for the disastrous results of last season - not coaching or anything else - but that's another story).

Not saying he's not a prima dona or denying that he is somewhat one-dimensional. What I am saying is that he found himself on a team that was not configured in a way to make him successful.

Although I was willing to give Bourque a chance and also see what the Habs did with the cap savings - nothing as it turns out - it's pretty clear by now that that was a bad trade, and I for one am fairly confident Cammy will have a few more years as one of the league's better snipers. Yet another case of Montreal throwing away significant assets (Ribeiro, Grabovski, Cammy) for reasons that have nothing to do with hockey. And just like in those cases, a significant portion of the fanbase keeps telling themselves that this was 'addition by subtraction' even though the loss of the assets made our team demonstrably worse. :rolleyes:

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This. And his 1,12 ppg in playoffs with the Habs.

this really is off-topic, but cant help bashing Squid once more.

(i admit that like Kovalev, Mikey has a ton of skill for sure, but also like Kovalev, he just dosent seem to have the heart/desire to ever take one for the team, or bring consistant effort every game. I can live with a floater if at the end of the day he produces and helps the team win.)

He has had 39 goals in the last 2 years.

Which for $6m/year, just dosent seem a great value to me and by no means would classify him as a sniper (iginla/Stamkos/Kessel/Eberle are snipers, no such thing as a sub 20-goal sniper is there?), more an average 2nd or very good 3rd liner , cept he seems scared to go into corners, back check, block a shot, or take a hit, so if he aint scoring he is of little value on the ice.

Unlike Kostitsyn/Bourque who score as much at 1/2 the salary and both can hit and win puck battles, but for some reason both are criticized quite a bit, whereas #13 isnt and is still quickly defended by many Hab fans, seems odd?

As far as trade goes; cap savings, Bourque is a career 20+ goal scorer, dosent know how to hit, but when he does he is big, scary and reckless (which can serve a purpose), Patrick Holland is one of best new kids in Hamilton and Habs will also get a nice 2nd rounder in June.

So for a player who only had 9 goals in first 1/2 of season seems a sweet deal to me (unless you are a Flame fan who know they shouldnt be trading away picks/prospects, when farm system is already very thin and have a non-playoff NHL roster)

One also has to begin to really question why he was on his 4th different NHL team before the age of 30? Maybe he is just a misunderstood young man? haha

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I am sorry to say, but i think Reilly will be one super d-man and a pain in the ass for the Habs for a long time.

Bob McKenzie nailed both picks; he had Reilly at #4 and Grigorenko at #12 and 11 other scouting staffs agreed.

And Reilly has zero chance of skipping to KHL if he ever gets disgruntled, which cant be said for the russian.

Could Grigorenko be the next Gaborick (or Filatov), for sure could be, but draft is always a crap shoot and i wouldnt say Leafs screwed up quite yet.

But with Biggs, yes i think they wasted a 1st round pick on a bottom six checker, if that.

Now Collberg, he may be much more of a steal than most at the world juniors, as a 2nd rounder, leading his team with 3 goals (on only 7 shots); whereas Forsberg has 2 goals on 24 shots.

I like Collberg, but more shots is usually better, even if its less goals in a short tournament like this.

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I am sorry to say, but i think Reilly will be one super d-man and a pain in the ass for the Habs for a long time.

Didn't say he was a bad draft pick but I think he was the wrong pick to make for Toronto. Sound silly since I supported getting Price back in 05 with all of the goaltending "depth" the Habs already had but Toronto is already pretty deep in young defenders and the problem with young D is that they take longer to mature to the NHL game than young forwards. Meaning Toronto is going to be icing an extremely young D core without much veteran leadership and we already know how quickly the Leafs crumble due to lack of veteran support. When you already have Jake Gardiner, go after the dazzling center.

Which for $6m/year, just dosent seem a great value to me and by no means would classify him as a sniper (iginla/Stamkos/Kessel/Eberle are snipers, no such thing as a sub 20-goal sniper is there?), more an average 2nd or very good 3rd liner , cept he seems scared to go into corners, back check, block a shot, or take a hit, so if he aint scoring he is of little value on the ice.

Unlike Kostitsyn/Bourque who score as much at 1/2 the salary and both can hit and win puck battles, but for some reason both are criticized quite a bit, whereas #13 isnt and is still quickly defended by many Hab fans, seems odd?

It absolutely amazes me that for some reason, playoff production matters for every player in this league except Mike Cammalleri. Dude lead the Canadiens in scoring twice, both times being an NHL leader while doing it. Saku Koivu never did that. Had Montreal gone farther in the cinderella season, Cammalleri might have had the best post-season in Montreal Canadiens history. Think about that. He would have had more points than Beliveau, Lafleur, Damphousse, etc. Yet that scoring doesn't really matter to people because he had some lackluster season totals. It amazes me how much people still credit Halak for that entire run. Wouldn't matter how many stops he was making if it wasn't for Cammalleri and Gionta scoring.

Go look at the LA Kings. They re-signed Dustin Penner for $3.25M over the summer after some of the worst season totals of his career. Why? Because he had a great playoff run when the Kings went to the Cup. They are a team that respects playoff performance and isn't afraid to spend for it. Habs fans? Not really. Which is why "wasted potential" players like Kostitsyn will get excuses and Cammalleri gets thrown under the bus. It's much better to focus on what a player could have been or could become instead of what a player is.

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Terrible game by Canada. But you have to hand it to the USA, they dominated from pole to pole. I know that Housley's strategy of rolling four lines equally defies conventional wisdom, but I really wonder whether - in a short tournament - that approach may have yielded a very strong team cohesion, a sense that 'we're all equals in this together.' Because what I saw was a highly cohesive squad against a bunch of individuals.

If Nugent-Hopkins had scored on that chance from the crease, where he had about 10 minutes to pick his spot, we might have seen the furious comeback. But no.

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Didn't say he was a bad draft pick but I think he was the wrong pick to make for Toronto. Sound silly since I supported getting Price back in 05 with all of the goaltending "depth" the Habs already had but Toronto is already pretty deep in young defenders and the problem with young D is that they take longer to mature to the NHL game than young forwards. Meaning Toronto is going to be icing an extremely young D core without much veteran leadership and we already know how quickly the Leafs crumble due to lack of veteran support. When you already have Jake Gardiner, go after the dazzling center.

It absolutely amazes me that for some reason, playoff production matters for every player in this league except Mike Cammalleri. Dude lead the Canadiens in scoring twice, both times being an NHL leader while doing it. Saku Koivu never did that. Had Montreal gone farther in the cinderella season, Cammalleri might have had the best post-season in Montreal Canadiens history. Think about that. He would have had more points than Beliveau, Lafleur, Damphousse, etc. Yet that scoring doesn't really matter to people because he had some lackluster season totals. It amazes me how much people still credit Halak for that entire run. Wouldn't matter how many stops he was making if it wasn't for Cammalleri and Gionta scoring.

Go look at the LA Kings. They re-signed Dustin Penner for $3.25M over the summer after some of the worst season totals of his career. Why? Because he had a great playoff run when the Kings went to the Cup. They are a team that respects playoff performance and isn't afraid to spend for it. Habs fans? Not really. Which is why "wasted potential" players like Kostitsyn will get excuses and Cammalleri gets thrown under the bus. It's much better to focus on what a player could have been or could become instead of what a player is.

Same old story. Many fans only look at what a player can't do, not what he can. And in a cap era, many fans are incapable of going beyond the question of whether a player is 'overpaid' - totally ignoring the value a player does bring to the table if his salary is inflated in their judgement. Cammy is a dangerous sniper. We gave him away for a used jock-strap and still a good percentage of the fanbase is happy about it.

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I like Collberg, but more shots is usually better, even if its less goals in a short tournament like this.

Hadnt seen Sweden play since pre-tourny and it was just one stat that jumped out, but after seeing Forsberg play today, i can see why he had so many shots and the Caps have 2 super Swedes now.

Loved Collberg's shootout goal, but he seemed to be just 1 of a bunch of good swede forwards.

Wennberg-Arvidsen-Lindholm-de la Rose all look like super prospects.

Not much that USA didnt dominate, faceoffs, shots etc were all one-sided and just got to say, the harder working (maybe better coached?) team won. Go Sweden Go!

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Canada lost for the same reason they lost last year. Every player and the coaching staff came in with too much confidence. There is plenty of evidence of this in their play. Germany scoring 3 goals is not acceptable. Czechs scoring 3 goals is not acceptable. Only scoring 2 or less goals in each of 4 games, is not acceptable. I'm not sure if it was coaching or players but there never seems to be a clear system in much of Canada's play. It was a free-for-all in the offensive zone which worked against some teams, and didn't against others. The entire team should look at the Swiss for inspiration. That team had way less talent than Canada had, but they had a system in place, a good system in which they trusted. That system almost knocked off the Russians.

Hopefully this year Hockey Canada will smarten up and stop assuming they can put together a team of talented players, fill them with confidence, give them a coach that can't coach well, and expect to win. The same thing happened to us in the Olympics in 2006.

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I was impressed with Collberg today, he was more of a presence 5-on-5 than I had expected given what I had read/seen about his preliminary round play. Galchenyuk also looked better than he did last game although the US as a whole looked quite impressive. His unofficial TOI was around 14 minutes which is about his tournament average so far.

For those who didn't see the shootout winner (which, by IIHF rules, counts as a goal scored in the stats column), here it is:

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Terrible game by Canada. But you have to hand it to the USA, they dominated from pole to pole. I know that Housley's strategy of rolling four lines equally defies conventional wisdom, but I really wonder whether - in a short tournament - that approach may have yielded a very strong team cohesion, a sense that 'we're all equals in this together.' Because what I saw was a highly cohesive squad against a bunch of individuals.

If Nugent-Hopkins had scored on that chance from the crease, where he had about 10 minutes to pick his spot, we might have seen the furious comeback. But no.

He didn't roll the four lines today.

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Oh, well, so much for that theory! -_-

Just to be a pain and bit bored, i looked up face off #s and for the 4 lines it was 19, 18, 14 and 15 (AGs line, which was noted had about 14 minutes of ice).

So (ballpark) - #1 line had 17.7minutes ice and #4 had 13.1, couple extra shifts for the "hot line" is too be expected.

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Canadian Defence is brutal.

Oulette-Harrington-Reilly were all fine. But let 2nd guessing start!

I was never a fan of putting Reinhart on the big ice, he is a Sami Salo clone (not a top 5 draft pick calibre player), big solid defensively, but limited offense and speed. And Murphy should of been PP specialist and that is all. Pulock-Dumba-Pouliot all would of been all good choices over these 2.

Up front, Shinkaruk and Petan added maybe, as well as more ice for MacKinnon, Rattie and Drouin togeather could of helped over the checkers; as the whole older player thing maybe less important on the big ice (i.e. Sweden). Speed/skill is key and maybe why Canada only wins in Europe when a goalie stands on his head, because the big grinders Canada favours (like MacNeill) cant keep up?

Also, Laurent Brossoit being left off seemed a mistake, but i dont really know goalies, cept in last years WHL playoffs he was awesome (but Makarov went undrafted, which i found odd also, after his semi-final and golden game performances, not worth a late round draft pick?).

my 2 cents anyways.

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I was never a fan of putting Reinhart on the big ice, he is a Sami Salo clone (not a top 5 draft pick calibre player), big solid defensively, but limited offense and speed. And Murphy should of been PP specialist and that is all. Pulock-Dumba-Pouliot all would of been all good choices over these 2.

You won't have to worry about Reinhart for a while, he's a no-go tomorrow and for the first 3 games of next year's tournament after being suspended for 4 games earlier today.

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Dumba had a really bad pre tournament camp.

Pulock is too young IMO for this type of responsibility, (Especially since you've made Murphy your 7th Dman and PP specialist)... PP specialist would be the only role I'd feel comfortable with Pulock in.

Pouliot has the same issues, I don't see him as adding anything to this team.

I don't think the Canadian team picked the wrong guys... I just think they had a Brutal Game and were poorly coached (Murphy shouldn't have got the icetime he did).

It happens in these one game eliminations.... sometimes you come out flat. Its like an NHL team, even the best team isn't gonna go 82-0. The first place team loses 25-30 games per year. Unfortunately Canada's brutal game happened at the worst possible time. I really don't think this was a roster issue, just something that happened

Full credit to the US who are also a talented club, and were the best club on the ice on this day.

Canada beat them the first time though.... who knows who wins in a 7 game series, or over 82 games. But this was a case of any given game.

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You won't have to worry about Reinhart for a while, he's a no-go tomorrow and for the first 3 games of next year's tournament after being suspended for 4 games earlier today.

Rightfully so, i had forgotten about the 2 hander to side of head, thank god for helmets.

He is a big solid d-man who will do fine in Long Island as strictly a defensive d-man, but skipping on higher talented kids like Forsberg-Grigorenko-Reilly-Dumba etc. simply because Reinhart is a big solid kid, seems an Islander thing to do, when solid defensive d-men like Pelech/Thrower are available in other rounds. I think Hab fans would of freaked if had picked him at #4.

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