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Jan. 15, Montreal vs Ottawa, 7:30 PM


dlbalr

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Yes he should have taken the draw. Not the first time lets Manny sit on bench when he should be "taking the draw". Therriens man crush on TP gets in the way sometimes.

I agree that Plek doesn't put up the points that he used to, but Unfortunately, he is the teams best centre. Galchenyuk DD and Eller just aren't as good as him. Chucky has the potential, but this is not the breakout season I was expecting. If you get mad everytime Plek is out for a big situation, you are going to be mad a lot.

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My sentiments exactly. In order to keep my sanity, I've accepted that we're lacking a true #1 center. We seem to have enough depth to stay in the top 10 overall. And who knows, anything can happen in the playoffs, right? So long as we stay healthy, and have the man in nets! :thumbs_up:

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In terms of Pleks: I like MOLG's post, but the reason I'm calling him a 45-point C is because he got 43 points last season and has been on a 40-point pace since the end of his October outburst. He is more and more looking like a 45-point guy. The 69-point man is gone and isn't coming back, except maybe for brief spurts, IMHO. So I stand by that description of what Plekanec is NOW; it was never meant as a generalization to cover his entire career.

Now, I do hope I'm wrong about his offensive skills having declined. But both the numbers and the anecdotal evidence of what I see with my eyes when he's out there lead me to this conclusion. The guy is 32, a drop off in the offensive parts of his game would hardly be unusual at this career stage.

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Last night was nothing to write home about. We got outclassed all over the ice. Came out sleeping in the first. Outshot 20-6. Got our asses kicked in the f/o circle (why? IDK.). P/P 0 for 4 Although at times it looked better. This looked like a team that were tired and didn't give a damn. They better rest up and get their heads on straight. Read eric Engels article today, he does a great job and I can't find anything in there I don't agree with.

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I agree that Plek doesn't put up the points that he used to, but Unfortunately, he is the teams best centre. Galchenyuk DD and Eller just aren't as good as him. Chucky has the potential, but this is not the breakout season I was expecting. If you get mad everytime Plek is out for a big situation, you are going to be mad a lot.

ha! you are right about that, however more puzzled than mad.

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My sentiments exactly. In order to keep my sanity, I've accepted that we're lacking a true #1 center. We seem to have enough depth to stay in the top 10 overall. And who knows, anything can happen in the playoffs, right? So long as we stay healthy, and have the man in nets! :thumbs_up:

agree ice water and stated that at the beginning of the season (got ripped for on here of course)

when you dont have a true number one center you dont pretend you do and play your best (matter of opinion) like he actually was one.

Pleks is not better than chucky or dd or Eller by enough to warrant his boat load of prime ice time. Share it around among the others centers. Especially the one who are still developing. The difference between them all could be measured in inches.

and yes, Pleks is a forty point center who btw logs more prime ice time than any forty point center in the history of the game. If there is another, please do tell.

l

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and yes, Pleks is a forty point center who btw logs more prime ice time than any forty point center in the history of the game. If there is another, please do tell.

From last season, players with less than 50 points logging 18+ minutes a night (more or less top line time):

Mike Fisher (49 points, 19:45/gm)

Travis Zajac (48 points, 20:18/gm)

Antoine Vermette (45 points, 18:12/gm)

Cody Hodgson (44 points, 18:08/gm)

Tomas Plekanec (43 points, 19:46/gm)

Ryan Kesler (43 points, 21:48/gm)

Adam Henrique (43 points, 18:03/gm)

Tyler Ennis (43 points, 18:51/gm)

Jordan Staal (40 points, 18:56/gm)

Martin Hanzal (40 points, 18:40/gm)

Mikael Backlund (39 points, 18:32/gm)

Sean Couturier (39 points, 19:05/gm)

Sam Gagner (37 points, 18:22/gm)

Matt Stajan (33 points, 18:22/gm)

Steve Ott (23 points, 18:13/gm)

Clearly, there are quite a few centres with similar point totals to Plekanec who have very similar ice time to him. It's not just the Habs who use a player who provides second line scoring in a role greater than the second line.

By the way, for those wondering about Plekanec's ice time this year? He's down 58 seconds a game from last season's numbers.

How would you allocate the 60 centre minutes out between Plekanec, Galchenyuk, Eller, and Malhotra?

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How many of the teams those players were playing on made the playoffs last year though....

Doesn't matter for the purposes of the question so I didn't filter for that. It was asked if Plekanec plays more prime ice time than any other 40-point centre in history. Clearly the answer to that question is no considering that nearly half the team has a similarly-producing player with that type of ice time and assuredly a lot of those minutes for those team are prime minutes.

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From last season, players with less than 50 points logging 18+ minutes a night (more or less top line time):

Mike Fisher (49 points, 19:45/gm)

Travis Zajac (48 points, 20:18/gm)

Antoine Vermette (45 points, 18:12/gm)

Cody Hodgson (44 points, 18:08/gm)

Tomas Plekanec (43 points, 19:46/gm)

Ryan Kesler (43 points, 21:48/gm)

Adam Henrique (43 points, 18:03/gm)

Tyler Ennis (43 points, 18:51/gm)

Jordan Staal (40 points, 18:56/gm)

Martin Hanzal (40 points, 18:40/gm)

Mikael Backlund (39 points, 18:32/gm)

Sean Couturier (39 points, 19:05/gm)

Sam Gagner (37 points, 18:22/gm)

Matt Stajan (33 points, 18:22/gm)

Steve Ott (23 points, 18:13/gm)

Clearly, there are quite a few centres with similar point totals to Plekanec who have very similar ice time to him. It's not just the Habs who use a player who provides second line scoring in a role greater than the second line.

By the way, for those wondering about Plekanec's ice time this year? He's down 58 seconds a game from last season's numbers.

How would you allocate the 60 centre minutes out between Plekanec, Galchenyuk, Eller, and Malhotra?

in key situations? Atleast evenly

Thanks for the list of comparable centers. The who's who of number one centers.

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Doesn't matter for the purposes of the question so I didn't filter for that. It was asked if Plekanec plays more prime ice time than any other 40-point centre in history. Clearly the answer to that question is no considering that nearly half the team has a similarly-producing player with that type of ice time and assuredly a lot of those minutes for those team are prime minutes.

If they are all the "go to guy" on their teams like pleks is for MT, then i am surprised at how many teams need a legitimate number one centerman.

19-17-14 10 icetime for 4 centres works for me (likely close to NHL average?).

yes its the talent level of the 19 guy on our team that concerns me. especially come play offs for obvious reasons

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You know, this team still has a problem at C.

Desharnais - on pace for 40 points. More importantly to my mind, he is not reliably generating anything. At his best, DD is a limited player but a good offensive catalyst. He hasn't been this all season long. If he keeps this up, I'll join the ranks of the DD bashers. He has to be an exciting offensive player if he is going to be anything at all.

Eller - having a better all-around season than last year, IMHO. A serviceable secondary player but not a go-to guy either defensively (that's Pleks) or offensively (that's...well, I dunno). As always, Lars remains content to be a guy who gets by rather than a guy who makes things happen on either side of the puck.

Galy - he's gone ice-cold, to the point where he was back on the wings last night. A work in progress. Not there yet.

Pleks - still as good in a two-way sense as ever, but like I pointed out in other threads, his offensive game has degenerated significantly from his peak, when he was reliably dangerous in the O-zone as well as reliably good defensively. He's more like Carbonneau nowadays than the poor man's Datsyuk he used to be.

Malholtra - 'nuff said. One trick pony, pretty much washed up.

That's pretty thin gruel. Looking at how the team is constructed, the fundamental problem is that Galy and Eller just haven't become the players we wanted them to become. Galy's backsliding recently is worrisome, but at least he had a strong spell for a while there. Eller, I think he is what he is. C'est une problem.

Nailed it. Sums up the habs current state at center.

Chucky has gone cold but throwing him back on the wing?

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Don't know where the conclusion that Plekanec is a career 45 point center came from.

He's had four seasons in his career under 50 points in full seasons: last season, his 08-09 year and his first two seasons in the NHL. Everything else is between 52-70 points. For TOI/G he's 31st in the league (for all centers - ROR who plays wing now). At even strength he's 30th for all centers. The way people talk about Plekanec makes me think they are actually Devils fans talking about Travis Zajac, who almost averages as much ice time as Steven Stamkos at even strength with only 15 points to show for it.

He's always going to log big minutes as a top six center who plays PK1 on an often penalized team and also plays PP2 but it's mostly because he's one of our best forwards at even strength and the league has shifted from top centers logging big minutes on the PP but being rested at ES to being played hard at even strength with a bigger emphasis on two PP units.

Back in 97-98 you had 25 centers that averaged over 14 minutes of even strength ice time, including the likes of Igor Larionov, Jason Allison, German Titov and Stu Barnes. Today, 59 centers average more than 14 minutes at even strength. In other words, there's higher expectations on the centers to put a lot of time in and it's not just a mish mash of top line centers and third line shutdown centers. In 03-04, Dave Scatchard averaged 15:08 of even strength ice time with 25 points to show for it (on a team that made the playoffs). Last year, six teams had two centers that averaged over 15:08 of even strength ice time and all of them had better scoring totals than Dave Scatchard.

What I'm trying to say is that centers log more minutes today than they used to prior to the lockout... at even strength. As individual players they log less all together minutes. Hopkins averages the most time altogether this year with 21:14. There were 16 centers averaging more in 98-99 in total ice time per game and the only one who averages less than four minutes a game on the powerplay was Trevor Linden. Plekanec sits at 2:04 PP TOI/G on the team, behind Desharnais and Galchenyuk. DD leads centers at 2:18 PP TOI/G.

TL:DR

- Calling Plek a 45 point center is dismissive and incorrect to his career totals

- Plek is our best even strength center so he plays big time at even strength

- The NHL used to have top centers lean hard on PP time. Now they lean hard on ES time. That skews your viewpoint of what a top center does.

- Plek is 31st for centers TOI/G. He's either outscoring or tied with 10 of the centers playing more minutes than him. So for Top 31 centers, he's on the edge of the Top 20 in scoring for high minute centers.

Good post. Ton of regular season career stats Too bad he struggles every play offs.

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Bottom line. Habs have never planned or wanted for pleks to be the first line center. The hopes when Chucky was drafted he would become the habs (star) number one center. Into his fourth season he has not passed Tomas Plekanic at the position? Not gonna hit the panic button, but when the kid was drafted and having a great rookie season, i doubt anyone thought that into his fourth season he would still be classified as "a work in progress"

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The hopes when Chucky was drafted he would become the habs (star) number one center. Into his fourth season he has not passed Tomas Plekanic at the position? Not gonna hit the panic button, but when the kid was drafted and having a great rookie season, i doubt anyone thought that into his fourth season he would still be classified as "a work in progress"

It's actually his third season and when you consider that his first year was essentially a half-season (the lockout year), he has yet to play the equivalent of two full regular seasons. I have no issue with Galchenyuk still being considered a work in progress at this stage. Frankly, I'd be shocked if he wasn't. He's 20 years old, he shouldn't be the go-to guy on a good team. The Habs have slowly increased his ice time and his role, putting him in situations to succeed for the most part. That's not a bad way to develop a player, even if in the end it takes a bit longer than it might if they threw him to the wolves as a lot of teams do with top-5 picks.

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I'm a little worried about Galchenyuk myself. Not panicking, but a bit concerned. He still seems to want to deke out the whole team by himself rather than using hockey smarts, his teammates, and the whole ice. Yes, he is still developing and that's understandable...but on the other hand, he's a guy who was supposed to be one of the absolute top talents in his draft year - someone who might have been a #1 overall pick if not for a major injury. It wouldn't be unheard of or surprising for a player of that profile to need less than four years to really start putting it all together. And it's slightly frustrating that OUR blue-chip high-end C prospect is turning out to be one of those guys who can't do this. But, as I say: not panicking. Yet.

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It's actually his third season and when you consider that his first year was essentially a half-season (the lockout year), he has yet to play the equivalent of two full regular seasons. I have no issue with Galchenyuk still being considered a work in progress at this stage. Frankly, I'd be shocked if he wasn't. He's 20 years old, he shouldn't be the go-to guy on a good team. The Habs have slowly increased his ice time and his role, putting him in situations to succeed for the most part. That's not a bad way to develop a player, even if in the end it takes a bit longer than it might if they threw him to the wolves as a lot of teams do with top-5 picks.

Don't forget that he missed practically his whole last year of junior.

I'm a little worried about Galchenyuk myself. Not panicking, but a bit concerned. He still seems to want to deke out the whole team by himself rather than using hockey smarts, his teammates, and the whole ice. Yes, he is still developing and that's understandable...but on the other hand, he's a guy who was supposed to be one of the absolute top talents in his draft year - someone who might have been a #1 overall pick if not for a major injury. It wouldn't be unheard of or surprising for a player of that profile to need less than four years to really start putting it all together. And it's slightly frustrating that OUR blue-chip high-end C prospect is turning out to be one of those guys who can't do this. But, as I say: not panicking. Yet.

From what I see when watching him closely, I see a player who has all the offensive talent in the world, but he is simply not putting it all together. He is just slightly on the losing end of some puck battles, the extra deke, the pass, the shot and the transition. Think how many times you can see a play developing or a chance, and then say " so close" when he is involved. I have seen much improvement from his rookie season and I believe it is just a matter of time before he gains the confidence in his talent. We are talking about a good, humble 20 year old kid here. His teammates, bosses, fans can all see his talent, he just has to believe in himself. I'm no where near panicking

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He has got pasted into boards numerous times since moving to centre, I think trying to do a bit too much.

But now he back on wing, he may gain a bit more confidence playing a much easier position with less defensive and offensive pressure?

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If they are all the "go to guy" on their teams like pleks is for MT, then i am surprised at how many teams need a legitimate number one centerman.

yes its the talent level of the 19 guy on our team that concerns me. especially come play offs for obvious reasons

"Playoffs, playoffs, playoffs.". It's game 40ish. You can wait until March to set yourself up for the "I told you so."

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I'm a little worried about Galchenyuk myself. Not panicking, but a bit concerned. He still seems to want to deke out the whole team by himself rather than using hockey smarts, his teammates, and the whole ice. Yes, he is still developing and that's understandable...but on the other hand, he's a guy who was supposed to be one of the absolute top talents in his draft year - someone who might have been a #1 overall pick if not for a major injury. It wouldn't be unheard of or surprising for a player of that profile to need less than four years to really start putting it all together. And it's slightly frustrating that OUR blue-chip high-end C prospect is turning out to be one of those guys who can't do this. But, as I say: not panicking. Yet.

Speaking of being worried about high draft picks, I got to watch Nail Yakupov last night.

Wow! I can say with 100% certainty that he's a bust. I've never seen a bigger dog in my entire life. He has no idea what to without the puck. When someone else has the puck, he just skates around into empty space like Shawn Thornton.

His game has two stages, having the puck and loafing around waiting an empty spot, most likely on the outlet, for a pass.

He didn't help out on defense once. In each zone, he stayed higher than the face off dot. There was one sequence where there was a scramble in front of the Oilers net with nine skaters in front of the crease-and Yakupov high in the faceoff circle.

He didn't win a single puck battle all night and avoided them whenever possible. If he weren't a number one pick he would be in the minors, in fact that's the best place for him. His play away from the puck is appalling, and it's not hyperbole when I say that from above, it looks like he has no idea how to play hockey.

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"Playoffs, playoffs, playoffs.". It's game 40ish. You can wait until March to set yourself up for the "I told you so."

Training camp Mike Keenan: Everything we do from this moment on is preparation for our 83 rd game"

thats how have always seen the team, the league, and the regular season too.

I will leave "setting up i told you so" to you LM, as its obviously on your mind.

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Yes was funny the clip of Yakupov floating around out of the zone, doing his best Pavel Bure impression, and Oil goalie catching puck and skating straight over to him and giving him a few choice words 'of advice.

Could better coaching even 'fix' him now? Or is it likely the KHL express train out of Alberta for him next fall?

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Speaking of being worried about high draft picks, I got to watch Nail Yakupov last night.

Wow! I can say with 100% certainty that he's a bust. I've never seen a bigger dog in my entire life. He has no idea what to without the puck. When someone else has the puck, he just skates around into empty space like Shawn Thornton.

His game has two stages, having the puck and loafing around waiting an empty spot, most likely on the outlet, for a pass.

He didn't help out on defense once. In each zone, he stayed higher than the face off dot. There was one sequence where there was a scramble in front of the Oilers net with nine skaters in front of the crease-and Yakupov high in the faceoff circle.

He didn't win a single puck battle all night and avoided them whenever possible. If he weren't a number one pick he would be in the minors, in fact that's the best place for him. His play away from the puck is appalling, and it's not hyperbole when I say that from above, it looks like he has no idea how to play hockey.

really? I knew he had a bad rep for floating without puck but its that bad is it. Glad we got Chucky and not that stiff.

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Guest Stogey24

Speaking of being worried about high draft picks, I got to watch Nail Yakupov last night.

Wow! I can say with 100% certainty that he's a bust. I've never seen a bigger dog in my entire life. He has no idea what to without the puck. When someone else has the puck, he just skates around into empty space like Shawn Thornton.

His game has two stages, having the puck and loafing around waiting an empty spot, most likely on the outlet, for a pass.

He didn't help out on defense once. In each zone, he stayed higher than the face off dot. There was one sequence where there was a scramble in front of the Oilers net with nine skaters in front of the crease-and Yakupov high in the faceoff circle.

He didn't win a single puck battle all night and avoided them whenever possible. If he weren't a number one pick he would be in the minors, in fact that's the best place for him. His play away from the puck is appalling, and it's not hyperbole when I say that from above, it looks like he has no idea how to play hockey.

There is no accountability in Edmonton.
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