dlbalr Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 We should not have gone after Scrivens. He is by far the worst goalie to ever wear the Habs Jersey. Any chance Marty Brodeur could be coxed out of retirement for a bit? That is where I would have looked as soon as Price was out for 8 weeks plus. Brodeur wasn't very good in St. Louis last year, while his save percentages with New Jersey the past few seasons were below average. Add to the fact he'd have been out of the game for over a year (and not practicing) and he would have been even more of a disaster - and if Brodeur would have even played well in a single game, there would have been a media-generated goalie controversy. By the way, Brodeur is still with St. Louis as an assistant GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Let me put it this way, I've never heard someone say a player is too big. Sure, there are some household names that achieved great success with a lack of size, but there's also a ton of minor league skill guys under 6 feet like Stevie Moses and Justin Acevedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Is it possible that Price is so good that he masked the lack of talent on this team? We all know that he is good but maybe we didn't understand just how good. Possibly the most bizarre season I've seen. I don't think it's one issue but a series of issues. From MT over playing Markov and his line combos to MB wanting to dump Kassian so bad that he took Scrivens back to players like Plex who is obviously slowing down and Markov who we have relied on for so long just not being able to do it anymore. Injuries, poor coaching decisions, poor asset management/lack of top 6 talent and players getting old. We don't need a rebuild but we sure could use some key moves to help us over the next few seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Is it possible that Price is so good that he masked the lack of talent on this team? We all know that he is good but maybe we didn't understand just how good. Possibly the most bizarre season I've seen. I don't think it's one issue but a series of issues. Price masks a lot of things but I think there's more talent on this team than they're currently showing. Price gives the team the confidence/freedom to play a bit more loose/aggressive and as we're seeing, they struggle without that security blanket. In terms of bizarreness, I still might put the centennial year ahead of this one. The team goes out in the offseason and makes the all-in moves (Tanguay/Lang) only for both of them to miss a huge chunk of the season. Then there was the beginning of the goalie controversy with Price/Halak, the coaching change that didn't really work out, the sweep in the first round, all of which led to one of the more prominent roster turnovers in team history. I don't think we're quite at that level with this team yet. Glad to see you back on here, it has been a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 You know who else is a small team.... hint, they've won 3 of the last 6 cups. Talent wins.... talent comes in all forms, big and small.... but if you have talent like Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, and even guys like Kris Versteeg, or a guy on their current team Artemi Panarin, or grit like an Andrew Shaw.... the size doesn't matter. Its not about being politically correct. Its about facts... and the fact is that talent wins. BS man... Hawks have grit, or supreme skill or both in the players you mentioned, we have no players of that caliber, Keith and Kane I mean, so irrelevant because we don't have skill either. Toews is mega tough and a winner of battles, and not small, and super skilled and fast, with genius hockey IQ. Nothing remotely close on Hab roster. Fact is our smurfs get pushed down like the grades one kid in the Jr. high playground because they are SOFT, DD and Pleks that is, Gallagher is awesome, not big, Weise sucks, and he is big, they have lack luster speed and skill, and you play the Hawks card to imply that this particular Montreal team is big enough? I got one word for you bud... Kings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Price masks a lot of things but I think there's more talent on this team than they're currently showing. Price gives the team the confidence/freedom to play a bit more loose/aggressive and as we're seeing, they struggle without that security blanket. In terms of bizarreness, I still might put the centennial year ahead of this one. The team goes out in the offseason and makes the all-in moves (Tanguay/Lang) only for both of them to miss a huge chunk of the season. Then there was the beginning of the goalie controversy with Price/Halak, the coaching change that didn't really work out, the sweep in the first round, all of which led to one of the more prominent roster turnovers in team history. I don't think we're quite at that level with this team yet. Glad to see you back on here, it has been a while... I forgot that all of that happened in one year! I remember being so angry at certain players and was convinced that Carbo was the problem. I'm not angry at any players or think that MT is doing a bad job this time - aside from playing Markov too much and I wish he would leave chucky at centre so the kid can learn and grow. We have had a few good seasons in a row and with the start of this season being so good I thought that we may be in real contention. How we go the first quarter as the best team and the second quarter as the worst team I'll never know. At this point I think that the team needs MB to do something. Not for this season but for next season and beyond. Have never really left this forum still come here daily to lurk and enjoy some great comments by some great posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Can Pacioretty and Subban even stand one another? Not that is important to winning, just not sure those two teammates see eye to eye and Subbans flying pucks from the point finally caught him right in the chin (I know that this one was tipped but...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Can Pacioretty and Subban even stand one another? Not that is important to winning, just not sure those two teammates see eye to eye and Subbans flying pucks from the point finally caught him right in the chin (I know that this one was tipped but...) A rift between the two alpha dogs would certainly be one explanation for the complete evaporation of team chemistry. A bit like the Chelios/Carbo clash from the old days. Other than Patches glaring at PK for his 'it's not my job' statement, though, I can't think of any real evidence of such a rift. It does ring true somehow, though - maybe because they seem like such different personalities (company man, pro-coach Patches v.s. flash-and-dash boogie man PK) and because they both seemed to want the 'C.' The way things have gone, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we learn of some such clash. 2008 was arguably more of a crashing disappointment than this season...partly because Gainey did indeed go out all-in and add the 'missing ingredients,' partly because it was Year 100, and partly because so many young players in whom we'd placed so much hope (Higgins, Komisarek, the Kostitsyns) seemed to check out mentally and emotionally on the organization even before the season ended. There were even rumours of Price being on the party. I see this season as closer to 2011-12, really: a promising team that suffers one really key injury (Markov then, Price now) leading to a cascading series of problems and, eventually, total collapse. Whichever parallel we prefer, it still sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I could see Subban and Pacioretty having an issue with each other. I think more Max towards P.K though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I could see Subban and Pacioretty having an issue with each other. I think more Max towards P.K though I know which one works harder on a consistent basis...not a fan of Max at this point. Quite frankly, was hoping a teammate would call him out about his floating in practice, and maybe settle things old-school with a tussle to wake him the hell up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I know which one works harder on a consistent basis...not a fan of Max at this point. Quite frankly, was hoping a teammate would call him out about his floating in practice, and maybe settle things old-school with a tussle to wake him the hell up. Pretty clear we should have kept the four 'A' system, in retrospect. This mess isn't Pacioretty's fault any more than it is Subban's (indeed, they're arguably the only guys doing their jobs night after night) but giving Patches the 'C' hasn't helped, and it might even have hurt the internal team chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 BS man... Hawks have grit, or supreme skill or both in the players you mentioned, we have no players of that caliber, Keith and Kane I mean, so irrelevant because we don't have skill either. Toews is mega tough and a winner of battles, and not small, and super skilled and fast, with genius hockey IQ. Nothing remotely close on Hab roster. Fact is our smurfs get pushed down like the grades one kid in the Jr. high playground because they are SOFT, DD and Pleks that is, Gallagher is awesome, not big, Weise sucks, and he is big, they have lack luster speed and skill, and you play the Hawks card to imply that this particular Montreal team is big enough? I got one word for you bud... Kings. Kings? yes I too believe we will do just as they did, Miss the playoffs over some anomaly of a season, and get right back where we were next year, only now with a top 7 pick in our hands. When the Kings FAILED to make the playoffs last year, did they implode the team during summer? destroy their core? Stop believing in their players? No, they calmed their F'N horses and realized their players were capable of more and for a variety of reasons, failed to achieve it. They stuck with their core and added to it, and now not even 9 months later they are back to being a Team to look out for. Could we use some size in our top 6? of course, do we need to try and move DD and Eller to make room for that? of course. Does that mean we should be talking about moving our top goal scorer? our most talented young forward? Our best D-man? Absolutley freakin not, that has panic and senseless reaction written all over it. This team is built on a good foundation, a core of Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Gallagher, and Galchenyuk, surrounded by a better crop of player in a few different areas of the Roster has everything it needs to be a team to look out for. The team needs an Upgrade to its top 6, it doesn't need to be Nuked. In Theory, if you Subtract DD, Eller, DSP, and Fleishman, Replace it with an Okposo to the top 6 or any bonified scorer of the 6+ million salary type, while giving full time spots to some of our Productive youngsters like Carr and Andrighetto. Do we not spend our cap more wisely and upgrade our weak position all at the same time? Do the young kids provide any less production from the bottom 6 than Eller, DSP or Fleishman? The Kings kept their composure after an off year last year, and acquired Lucic during the summer to upgrade something they felt they were lacking, rather than blow it up in a fit of panic. We need to keep our composure and see this for what it is, an off year, and this summer, we need to get our Lucic, so that next season we can be an even better version of what we could have been this season. that's my opinion on this whole ordeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 The Kings have a great roster, no reason to revamp. IMO the reason they didn't make the playoffs was 2 things, the west had a bunch of high point teams (the Kings would have made the east playoffs) and fatigue. The played more hockey than another other team over the previous 3 years, numerous 7 games series and running deep into the playoffs including winning the cup several times. Habs 1993 As CC stated, why are you comparing the Kings and the Habs? The Kings dominate at every position with size, speed and skill and almost as good of a goalie. You are comparing apples and oranges. The habs roster (minus Price) is terrible. They are soft, lose too many battles, don't know where the front of the net is, can't score or defend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Kings are probably toughest team to play against in the league. They're a mean team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 The kings have size but they also have talent.... The 2nd smallest team in the league though, Chicago, has dispatched them once (in 5 games) and lost once to them (in a 7 game OT classic series)... so its not to say a small but talented team can't beat them too. But thats the thing.... Talent. A team can have all the behemouths they want (see Brian Burke's truculence maple leafs), but without talent it means zilch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 At this point I'm not so sure I would include Chucky in the core conversation just yet. He does not seem to have much hockey IQ. I hope I am wrong, but I have seen loads of talent and very little teamwork from him. He does not seem to effectively use the players around him. I would not trade him yet. It's too soon. I certainly do not want to give up on him. But I see him listed with Price Subban and Pac a lot. He isn't there yet and may never be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 The Kings have a great roster, no reason to revamp. IMO the reason they didn't make the playoffs was 2 things, the west had a bunch of high point teams (the Kings would have made the east playoffs) and fatigue. The played more hockey than another other team over the previous 3 years, numerous 7 games series and running deep into the playoffs including winning the cup several times. Habs 1993 As CC stated, why are you comparing the Kings and the Habs? The Kings dominate at every position with size, speed and skill and almost as good of a goalie. You are comparing apples and oranges. The habs roster (minus Price) is terrible. They are soft, lose too many battles, don't know where the front of the net is, can't score or defend. so the excuses for them missing the playoffs are ok and they are still a great team, but we are horrible despite last year's success and the first quarter of this year? There is no chance that we are capable of doing the exact same thing as they did by bouncing back next season? the old saying goes you are never as good as your best and never as bad as your worst, seems to be a whole lot of people seeing us as being as bad as our worst. and I'm not comparing them as teams, i'm well aware LA has a better club than we do, i'm comparing their situations. The Kings were in our shoes last season, for whatever reason, they played well below their abilities, and after a positive summer not filled with the dismantling of their core, they came back strong as ever this season, we could do the same next season. Take statements like you are saying, where minus Price, we are a terrible roster for instance, that is so filled with negative bias and frustration its not even funny. Does anyone really think GMs in the league would not salivate at the idea of having Subban, Pacioretty, Gallagher or Galchenyuk on their Roster? Come on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 At this point I'm not so sure I would include Chucky in the core conversation just yet. He does not seem to have much hockey IQ. I hope I am wrong, but I have seen loads of talent and very little teamwork from him. He does not seem to effectively use the players around him. I would not trade him yet. It's too soon. I certainly do not want to give up on him. But I see him listed with Price Subban and Pac a lot. He isn't there yet and may never be. I've been expressing the same concern for a while now. He ALWAYS goes for the individual play. That said, I've found his overall game better this year than years previous...and if he could just hit the fershlugginer net with his fershlugginer shot, he'd be even better. I guess I'm not wringing my hands too much because there seems to be a very gradual improvement with this kid. But it's a legitimate question whether he will ever graduate from the 'occasional flashes of brilliance' phase of his career, or whether he'll just end up as one of those reasonably productive 'Euro' types who seems to have flashy moves but doesn't really light it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I've been expressing the same concern for a while now. He ALWAYS goes for the individual play. That said, I've found his overall game better this year than years previous...and if he could just hit the fershlugginer net with his fershlugginer shot, he'd be even better. I guess I'm not wringing my hands too much because there seems to be a very gradual improvement with this kid. But it's a legitimate question whether he will ever graduate from the 'occasional flashes of brilliance' phase of his career, or whether he'll just end up as one of those reasonably productive 'Euro' types who seems to have flashy moves but doesn't really light it up. I see him very much in the same light as Seguin, Give him the Primary Scoring role he deserves, and he will Thrive, lets not make the same mistake Boston made and hold him back, only to have him explode elsewhere when he gets that role. Until I see him fail with my own eyes as a top line Center, I will believe he is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Last night was the first time all season that Galchenyuk had legitimate top 6 talent on his line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Last night was the first time all season that Galchenyuk had legitimate top 6 talent on his line. But Commandant, Semin was a major top-6 offensive talent...haven't you been paying attention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I want the EGG line back! Get Tomas to centre some other wingers and let Larry work with the G&G again. At least Lars has been working his ass off and just dosent seem like #14 and Galchenyuk are a good match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 The kings have size but they also have talent.... The 2nd smallest team in the league though, Chicago, has dispatched them once (in 5 games) and lost once to them (in a 7 game OT classic series)... so its not to say a small but talented team can't beat them too. But thats the thing.... Talent. A team can have all the behemouths they want (see Brian Burke's truculence maple leafs), but without talent it means zilch. I believe we can use smalls if they have elite talent such as Kane the closest thing we got to that is Gallagher which we should all recognize as a big step down. After that the talent of our smalls goes right down hill. IMHO, if you are bring middle of the road talent (fillers) you might as well have size to go with it. You have referenced Chicago as the second smallest team--when was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I want the EGG line back! Get Tomas to centre some other wingers and let Larry work with the G&G again. At least Lars has been working his ass off and just dosent seem like #14 and Galchenyuk are a good match. That's one thing Lars deserves credit for. He never takes a shift off, you have to respect that. Maybe Pacioretty can take some notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I believe we can use smalls if they have elite talent such as Kane the closest thing we got to that is Gallagher which we should all recognize as a big step down. After that the talent of our smalls goes right down hill. IMHO, if you are bring middle of the road talent (fillers) you might as well have size to go with it. You have referenced Chicago as the second smallest team--when was that? The team that won the 2013 cup was the second smallest team in the NHL that year. The team that won last year was also on the small side. As for this comment, " IMHO, if you are bring middle of the road talent (fillers) you might as well have size to go with it. ".... thats my entire point. If you have "fillers" you ain't winning shit. Don't matter if those fillers are big or small. You can't have fillers, you need to get talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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