Why have we been outscored 30-3 in our losses?

[Meller93]

The Habs have a great record. 16-6-1 leads the league, and we've seen some great wins from the team, but the lopsided wins don't even come close to the lopsided losses. What's going on?

Have we been lucky to come out on top of a lot of games? Or have we been unlucky in our losses? I guess the biggest question is, what can we expect from the Habs for the rest of the season?

[Habs30/31]

The Habs have a great record. 16-6-1 leads the league, and we've seen some great wins from the team, but the lopsided wins don't even come close to the lopsided losses. What's going on?

Have we been lucky to come out on top of a lot of games? Or have we been unlucky in our losses? I guess the biggest question is, what can we expect from the Habs for the rest of the season?

Habs do well when the opposition allows them to play the run and gun, stretch pass game. When teams do not allow that, habs do not do very well at all. They have not adjusted well when the run and gun game plan is stymied. That does not explain the lop sides scores in some of the losses, except to say the habs d has been atrocious on those nights too boot.

[Toronthab]

I think its the way artithmetic works. They score a goal.. they get a number.. we score.. we get one.

Glad I could help.

[hab29RETIRED]

The Habs have a great record. 16-6-1 leads the league, and we've seen some great wins from the team, but the lopsided wins don't even come close to the lopsided losses. What's going on?

Have we been lucky to come out on top of a lot of games? Or have we been unlucky in our losses? I guess the biggest question is, what can we expect from the Habs for the rest of the season?

we have lost horribly, won some games that we played great in and won a lot of close games we were really lucky in. Where we are in the standings has more to do with those early games where we came back after poor starts and won 3 or 4 of those in shootouts. At some point that early good luck is going to balance out against us.

[JoeLassister]

we have lost horribly, won some games that we played great in and won a lot of close games we were really lucky in. Where we are in the standings has more to do with those early games where we came back after poor starts and won 3 or 4 of those in shootouts. At some point that early good luck is going to balance out against us.

Funny. What you call luck, I call it hardwork to come back and win the game. Meh.

[DON]

we have lost horribly, won some games that we played great in and won a lot of close games we were really lucky in. Where we are in the standings has more to do with those early games where we came back after poor starts and won 3 or 4 of those in shootouts. At some point that early good luck is going to balance out against us.

On pace for 117points.

I think safe bet Habs come up short of that, but 100 would likely do it for playoffs, so those early comebacks added a bit of buffer for that 3-6-1 ten game stretch, which will likely happen sooner or later. And the Mid-West trip coming up start of December, could be a nice challenge with Aves, Minni, Hawks & Stars.

But that looks like first of 3 tough road trips left to play this season (with 2 of them coming in Dec)

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Habs do well when the opposition allows them to play the run and gun, stretch pass game. When teams do not allow that, habs do not do very well at all. They have not adjusted well when the run and gun game plan is stymied. That does not explain the lop sides scores in some of the losses, except to say the habs d has been atrocious on those nights too boot.

I totally agree. I also think a lot of the Habs' offense relies on flying out of the zone and the cheating can backfire. The forwards don't do very much to help out the defenders.

Also, without great goaltending this is a very average team. (But that can be said of many teams with great goaltending).

The big losses will level out.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Habs do well when the opposition allows them to play the run and gun, stretch pass game. When teams do not allow that, habs do not do very well at all. They have not adjusted well when the run and gun game plan is stymied. That does not explain the lop sides scores in some of the losses, except to say the habs d has been atrocious on those nights too boot.

I totally agree. I also think a lot of the Habs' offense relies on flying out of the zone and the cheating can backfire. The forwards don't do very much to help out the defenders.

Also, without great goaltending this is a very average team. (But that can be said of many teams with great goaltending).

The big losses will level out.

nope...

-the habs do well when they play a high forcheck and sound 5 man defence first game, when the forwards back check hard, forcing teams to shoot from outside and collapsing while blocking shots....

-a lighting fast transition game through the neutral zone/ counter attack causing odd man rushes, fast breaks , one on ones and breakaways... while holding possession once in the OFF zone is the montreal canadiens at their best.

just look at there most recent 6 game winning streak as a prime example

so what might be portrayed as run and gun is actually an all team effort to defence first which allows them to take advantage with an all out attacking counter!

run and gun= no attention to defence and trying to simply outscore your opponent

[PMAC]

Well said, ItHoM. One would hope that if this were actually a run and gun team that they would score more.

When we win it is because the Habs are imposing their style on the other team, by tenacious d (cue the jack black jokes) and speed. When the forwards are not playing that style, the defense soon follows into anarchy and it all ends ugly.

Thankfully--notice the lack of that "L" word-- the Habs are winning because they do impose their will on the opposition more often than not.

[KoRP]

nope...

-the habs do well when they play a high forcheck and sound 5 man defence first game, when the forwards back check hard, forcing teams to shoot from outside and collapsing while blocking shots....

-a lighting fast transition game through the neutral zone/ counter attack causing odd man rushes, fast breaks , one on ones and breakaways... while holding possession once in the OFF zone is the montreal canadiens at their best.

just look at there most recent 6 game winning streak as a prime example

so what might be portrayed as run and gun is actually an all team effort to defence first which allows them to take advantage with an all out attacking counter!

run and gun= no attention to defence and trying to simply outscore your opponent

Yep, for sure. Last winning streak started and ended with this type of game.

Habs don't play this way, and that's when they get blown out...

[ICEWATER77]

haha, good one t-o hab!

[Habs30/31]

nope...

-the habs do well when they play a high forcheck and sound 5 man defence first game, when the forwards back check hard, forcing teams to shoot from outside and collapsing while blocking shots....

-a lighting fast transition game through the neutral zone/ counter attack causing odd man rushes, fast breaks , one on ones and breakaways... while holding possession once in the OFF zone is the montreal canadiens at their best.

just look at there most recent 6 game winning streak as a prime example

so what might be portrayed as run and gun is actually an all team effort to defence first which allows them to take advantage with an all out attacking counter!

run and gun= no attention to defence and trying to simply outscore your opponent

"no attention to defense" like the blow out games.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

"no attention to defense" like the blow out games.

thats not what you said... u said we play best when we play run and gun... definition of run and gun is edmonton in the 80's... habs are nothing of the sort...

Habs do well when the opposition allows them to play the run and gun, stretch pass game. When teams do not allow that, habs do not do very well at all. They have not adjusted well when the run and gun game plan is stymied. That does not explain the lop sides scores in some of the losses, except to say the habs d has been atrocious on those nights too boot.

i also think the lop sided losses has to do with us more then the other team styming us!! more so, with the forward assignments lost on the defensive side of the game... like i said this system "for what it is" demands a 5 man D approach. Usually one D steps up to the puck carrier which means the forwards are 100% accountable to back check hard all the times picking up the forwards entering the zone. if you look at the PITTS game and Rangers game you'll see...

moore goal- bad bounce but plex caught floating and not picking up moore as they enter the zone off the face off

stepan goal- great backhand pass by st.louis but patches who normally is a beast on the back check doesn't pick up the trailer in stepan (you'll notice DD btw defending hard on the play;) just saying it isn't all bad)

st.louis goal- pick pocket nuff said

hagelin goal- both paranteau and eller chasing duclair to no avail leaving gilbert alone trying to cover hagelin and he frees his stick off a spin move

nash goal- sums up the night as all of patches, paranteau and DD give zero effort on a 1 on 3 along the boards allowing NY to easily skate the puck out and find nash streaking up the gut

bennent- bad pass by beaulieau nuff said

downie- lazy défence by patch and a bad read by beaulieu leaving him in no mans land allowing letang to come in off the

sutter- gallagher gets back but floats and picks up nobody!!

crosby- prust caught floating again at the hash and not picking up sydney coming in off the side boards on the PP.

6 of 9 goals i would attribute to the forwards not buying in "to a defence first and the offence will come approach" in just these 2 games.... and thats why we get blown out in the the losses. if you broke down each blowout i could bet that 70% of the goals scored are on forward defensive break downs.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Habs vs. Leafs: Habs win 4-3

Habs vs. Capitals: Habs win 2-1 in shootout

Habs vs. Flyers: Habs win 4-3 in shootout

At this point, we can all agree the Habs were winning close games and were not playing their best. Leafs game we scored first and scored last. Caps game we were down 1-0 until the 10 min mark of the third. Flyers game was a come from behind, down 3-0 victory with three goals scored in eight minutes in the third.

Habs vs. Lightning: Habs lose 7-1

First loss of the season. After the first it was only 2-1 Lightning. Lightning outshot the Habs 41-17 with 18 shots in the third. The team gave up after Stamkos completed his hat trick in the second.

Habs vs. Bruins: Habs win 6-4

Habs vs. Avalanche: Habs win 3-2

Habs vs. Red Wings: Habs win 2-1

Habs vs. Rangers: Habs win 3-1

Bruins game was a see-saw battle but Montreal started it sleepy. Habs beat the Avalanche soundly. Price stops six PP shots in the Red Wings game. Habs beat the Rangers pretty soundly even if the Rangers took more shots.

Habs vs. Oilers: Habs lose 3-0

On the road, the Canadiens outshot the Oilers 29-19. Oilers also blocked 21 shots. A goal got disallowed after Petry shoved Gallagher into Scrivens. Both Oilers goals came from capitalizing on turnovers. Their third goal was an empty netter.

Habs vs. Flames: Habs win 2-1 in shootout

Flames outshoot the Habs 38-19 because the Habs took nine penalties. Price had to contain a two man advantage at one point with Subban and Emelin in the box.

Habs vs. Canucks: Habs lose 3-2

Habs vs. Flames: Habs lose 6-2

Habs vs. Blackhawks: Habs lose 5-0

Montreal scored two goals to tie it up in the third but lost in overtime (powerplay OT goal). That was the game where Bonino scored after Emelin was drilled in the head with no call on the play. In the Flames game, Calgary hammered the Habs 36-20 in shots. Montreal had eight penalties that game. Calgary had a 3-0 lead before the third. Nothing much to say on the Blackhawks game. They couldn't score, couldn't capitalize, Price played great, Crawford let in less goals.

Habs vs. Sabres: Habs win 2-1 in shootout

Habs vs. Wild: Habs win 4-1

Habs vs. Jets: Habs win 3-0

Habs vs. Bruins: Habs win 5-1

Habs vs. Flyers: Habs win 6-3

Habs vs. Red Wings: Habs win 4-1

Nobody scored until the third in the Sabres game. Lapointe night was controlled by the Habs despite the Wild playing well. It was also the start of the Sekac-Eller tandem. Jets were a continuation of it. All three of these games were pretty even in shots. Habs outshot the Bruins 34-22 with the Bruins taking eight penalties to the Habs six. That was also Gonchar's night. Habs had the first three goals (all PP goals) in the victory over the Flyers. Montreal took seven penalties in the Red Wings game which is why they only took 19 shots but Tokarski was great in net.

Habs vs. Penguins: Habs lose 4-0

Montreal outshot the Penguins in the game 27-22 and there were barely any penalties. The Habs also started strong but got deflated by Bennett's goal. Beaulieu and Gilbert were almost benched for being on the ice for the first two goals.

Habs vs. Blues: Habs win 4-1

Habs vs. Bruins: Habs win 2-0

Low penalty game against the Blues. Montreal had got 96 minutes without a goal when they finally scored in the second. Bruins outshot the Habs 33-23 while the Habs finally scored on the PP. Most of the Bruins shots came in the first and third.

Habs vs. Rangers: Habs lose 5-0

After the first it was only 1-0 with a 12-11 shot advantage for New York. Montreal proceeded to only take 10 more shots in the entire game. Giveaways were even at 7 but New York had a recorded 15 takeaways. Plek line, Eller line and Malhotra lines weren't on the ice for very many goals (one goal a piece for Eller/Plek lines). Pacioretty line, on the other hand was on the ice for three goals.

I hope this gives a little context to the blowouts and the wins. Oilers and Canucks losses were winnable games. Flames game we were undisciplined. Lightning and Rangers games were even and then Montreal dropped the throttle and were hammered for it. Montreal outshot the Penguins and lost.

When you look at it with a game by game breakdown, it isn't such a big number with context. Some of those losses were winnable and the team either exhibited bad habits (giveaways, penalties) or were just outmatched that night. Remember the Habs just lost to the Rangers 5-0 but beat the Rangers earlier 3-1 in the season. It ain't like we can't beat them.

The only worries I have are the fact that Montreal isn't beating the powerhouses. The Tampa, Chicago and Pittsburgh losses are ones I hope the team avenges. Even Jon Cooper of Tampa said he expects the Habs to hit them hard in the next encounter. We consider Boston a huge rival but we almost always beat the Bruins in the regular season. They are not a good indication of our teams ability. Vancouver and Calgary I don't consider real contenders. We did beat the Blues, which was great for the team (St. Louis owns us in regular season encounters).

In the end, I don't feel the blowouts mean a heck of a lot until we're at say game 41 and our losses seem to only be to teams we're supposed to be comparable to. Then I'll worry. Until then, we're only 23 games into an 82 game season. Everyone could change by game 46 and change again at 69.

[Habs30/31]

thats not what you said... u said we play best when we play run and gun... definition of run and gun is edmonton in the 80's... habs are nothing of the sort...

i also think the lop sided losses has to do with us more then the other team styming us!! more so, with the forward assignments lost on the defensive side of the game... like i said this system "for what it is" demands a 5 man D approach. Usually one D steps up to the puck carrier which means the forwards are 100% accountable to back check hard all the times picking up the forwards entering the zone. if you look at the PITTS game and Rangers game you'll see...

moore goal- bad bounce but plex caught floating and not picking up moore as they enter the zone off the face off

stepan goal- great backhand pass by st.louis but patches who normally is a beast on the back check doesn't pick up the trailer in stepan (you'll notice DD btw defending hard on the play;) just saying it isn't all bad)

st.louis goal- pick pocket nuff said

hagelin goal- both paranteau and eller chasing duclair to no avail leaving gilbert alone trying to cover hagelin and he frees his stick off a spin move

nash goal- sums up the night as all of patches, paranteau and DD give zero effort on a 1 on 3 along the boards allowing NY to easily skate the puck out and find nash streaking up the gut

bennent- bad pass by beaulieau nuff said

downie- lazy défence by patch and a bad read by beaulieu leaving him in no mans land allowing letang to come in off the

sutter- gallagher gets back but floats and picks up nobody!!

crosby- prust caught floating again at the hash and not picking up sydney coming in off the side boards on the PP.

6 of 9 goals i would attribute to the forwards not buying in "to a defence first and the offence will come approach" in just these 2 games.... and thats why we get blown out in the the losses. if you broke down each blowout i could bet that 70% of the goals scored are on forward defensive break downs.

well said ..... how ever the "oilers of the 80's" were the BEST run and gun team".... I did not say the Habs were great at it. But your points are well taken, and i do think you are closer to the mark with your theory(s) than I was. One thing we agree on is this team really sucks defensively some nights. Funny I seem to recall Therrien saying (ranting) the same thing about his Penguins....just before he was fired.

[Habs30/31]

Habs vs. Leafs: Habs win 4-3

Habs vs. Capitals: Habs win 2-1 in shootout

Habs vs. Flyers: Habs win 4-3 in shootout

At this point, we can all agree the Habs were winning close games and were not playing their best. Leafs game we scored first and scored last. Caps game we were down 1-0 until the 10 min mark of the third. Flyers game was a come from behind, down 3-0 victory with three goals scored in eight minutes in the third.

Habs vs. Lightning: Habs lose 7-1

First loss of the season. After the first it was only 2-1 Lightning. Lightning outshot the Habs 41-17 with 18 shots in the third. The team gave up after Stamkos completed his hat trick in the second.

Habs vs. Bruins: Habs win 6-4

Habs vs. Avalanche: Habs win 3-2

Habs vs. Red Wings: Habs win 2-1

Habs vs. Rangers: Habs win 3-1

Bruins game was a see-saw battle but Montreal started it sleepy. Habs beat the Avalanche soundly. Price stops six PP shots in the Red Wings game. Habs beat the Rangers pretty soundly even if the Rangers took more shots.

Habs vs. Oilers: Habs lose 3-0

On the road, the Canadiens outshot the Oilers 29-19. Oilers also blocked 21 shots. A goal got disallowed after Petry shoved Gallagher into Scrivens. Both Oilers goals came from capitalizing on turnovers. Their third goal was an empty netter.

Habs vs. Flames: Habs win 2-1 in shootout

Flames outshoot the Habs 38-19 because the Habs took nine penalties. Price had to contain a two man advantage at one point with Subban and Emelin in the box.

Habs vs. Canucks: Habs lose 3-2

Habs vs. Flames: Habs lose 6-2

Habs vs. Blackhawks: Habs lose 5-0

Montreal scored two goals to tie it up in the third but lost in overtime (powerplay OT goal). That was the game where Bonino scored after Emelin was drilled in the head with no call on the play. In the Flames game, Calgary hammered the Habs 36-20 in shots. Montreal had eight penalties that game. Calgary had a 3-0 lead before the third. Nothing much to say on the Blackhawks game. They couldn't score, couldn't capitalize, Price played great, Crawford let in less goals.

Habs vs. Sabres: Habs win 2-1 in shootout

Habs vs. Wild: Habs win 4-1

Habs vs. Jets: Habs win 3-0

Habs vs. Bruins: Habs win 5-1

Habs vs. Flyers: Habs win 6-3

Habs vs. Red Wings: Habs win 4-1

Nobody scored until the third in the Sabres game. Lapointe night was controlled by the Habs despite the Wild playing well. It was also the start of the Sekac-Eller tandem. Jets were a continuation of it. All three of these games were pretty even in shots. Habs outshot the Bruins 34-22 with the Bruins taking eight penalties to the Habs six. That was also Gonchar's night. Habs had the first three goals (all PP goals) in the victory over the Flyers. Montreal took seven penalties in the Red Wings game which is why they only took 19 shots but Tokarski was great in net.

Habs vs. Penguins: Habs lose 4-0

Montreal outshot the Penguins in the game 27-22 and there were barely any penalties. The Habs also started strong but got deflated by Bennett's goal. Beaulieu and Gilbert were almost benched for being on the ice for the first two goals.

Habs vs. Blues: Habs win 4-1

Habs vs. Bruins: Habs win 2-0

Low penalty game against the Blues. Montreal had got 96 minutes without a goal when they finally scored in the second. Bruins outshot the Habs 33-23 while the Habs finally scored on the PP. Most of the Bruins shots came in the first and third.

Habs vs. Rangers: Habs lose 5-0

After the first it was only 1-0 with a 12-11 shot advantage for New York. Montreal proceeded to only take 10 more shots in the entire game. Giveaways were even at 7 but New York had a recorded 15 takeaways. Plek line, Eller line and Malhotra lines weren't on the ice for very many goals (one goal a piece for Eller/Plek lines). Pacioretty line, on the other hand was on the ice for three goals.

I hope this gives a little context to the blowouts and the wins. Oilers and Canucks losses were winnable games. Flames game we were undisciplined. Lightning and Rangers games were even and then Montreal dropped the throttle and were hammered for it. Montreal outshot the Penguins and lost.

When you look at it with a game by game breakdown, it isn't such a big number with context. Some of those losses were winnable and the team either exhibited bad habits (giveaways, penalties) or were just outmatched that night. Remember the Habs just lost to the Rangers 5-0 but beat the Rangers earlier 3-1 in the season. It ain't like we can't beat them.

The only worries I have are the fact that Montreal isn't beating the powerhouses. The Tampa, Chicago and Pittsburgh losses are ones I hope the team avenges. Even Jon Cooper of Tampa said he expects the Habs to hit them hard in the next encounter. We consider Boston a huge rival but we almost always beat the Bruins in the regular season. They are not a good indication of our teams ability. Vancouver and Calgary I don't consider real contenders. We did beat the Blues, which was great for the team (St. Louis owns us in regular season encounters).

In the end, I don't feel the blowouts mean a heck of a lot until we're at say game 41 and our losses seem to only be to teams we're supposed to be comparable to. Then I'll worry. Until then, we're only 23 games into an 82 game season. Everyone could change by game 46 and change again at 69.

i like your thinking.........the wins mean everything....................the blow out losses mean nothing

me thinks it somewhere in the middle.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

i like your thinking.........the wins mean everything....................the blow out losses mean nothing

Please tell me where that was said.

[Habs30/31]

I dont read to much into anything 23 games in. I hear ya there. I dont think the habs are on shaky ground because they got blown out six times. ( even if they were "deflated after the bennet goal) ???? Also dont think they are an automatic contender because of their win, loss, ot, and shoot out record so far. But it is worth noting that the team, while greatly improved in player personal ...... more than occasionally plays like same old team we have been seeing for years. The guys on this board aint the only ones eluding to it either.

Please tell me where that was said.

"i dont think the blow means a heck of a lot"

[Habs30/31]

I dont read to much into anything 23 games in. I hear ya there. I dont think the habs are on shaky ground because they got blown out six times. ( even if they were "deflated after the bennet goal) ???? Also dont think they are an automatic contender because of their win, loss, ot, and shoot out record so far. But it is worth noting that the team, while greatly improved in player personal ...... more than occasionally plays like same old team we have been seeing for years. The guys on this board aint the only ones eluding to it either.

"i dont think the blow means a heck of a lot"

to me the blow out mean simply this...............on some nights this team is beaten very easily. If I am coaching the opposition i look at the tapes from any one of a half dozen blow outs to see how it gets done. Look at how the sabres held them to a goal, how calgary out shot them 2-1 for six periods.......the blow outs might be dismissed easily by MT and some fans............but they are quiet valuable to the opposition....................and as lopsided wins and losses go, i'm sure the pens,rangers,lightning,oiler and flames fans think those games meant something..............we hab fans seem to think our wins speak loud enough. Had the Habs gone into Tbay and won 7-1 I doubt the game would be dismissed , or had they beat the hated rangers 5-0 instEad of losing 5-0 .....well that game would not be "thrown in the bin" Beating St.Louis was huge (just read the posts) as was pounding the Bruins (just read the posts) however getting pounded 6 times? nah, pass the basket excuses please. lol

[JoeLassister]

A question that we rarely ask :

Down 4-0 after 30 minutes, in the middle of a 6 games in 10 days streak. Would you go all in to try to come back and win ? Or would you maybe relax a bit, hope for possible mistakes or turnovers from your opponent to make up the score while trying to stay away from potential injuries/suspension/frustration/etc (a.k.a. kinda give up on that game) AND go all in next game to get the W ?

I do reckon that this attitude is really negative and shouldn't be encouraged, but... you know... sometimes it's not your night..

[Habs30/31]

A question that we rarely ask :

Down 4-0 after 30 minutes, in the middle of a 6 games in 10 days streak. Would you go all in to try to come back and win ? Or would you maybe relax a bit, hope for possible mistakes or turnovers from your opponent to make up the score while trying to stay away from potential injuries/suspension/frustration/etc (a.k.a. kinda give up on that game) AND go all in next game to get the W ?

I do reckon that this attitude is really negative and shouldn't be encouraged, but... you know... sometimes it's not your night..

true enough........and it seems that 1 outta every 4 games ...."it aint the habs night"................. if there is such a "strategy" I'll check with the other cup contenders that have been blown out six times already this season and see if that fits.

[JoeLassister]

true enough........and it seems that 1 outta every 4 games ...."it aint the habs night"................. if there is such a "strategy" I'll check with the other cup contenders that have been blown out six times already this season and see if that fits.

well... to be honest... in the end, what matters is getting 16 W in the playoffs. Don't really care about how we get these 16.

[Toronthab]

haha, good one t-o hab!

Why thank you sir.

[Toronthab]

A question that we rarely ask :

Down 4-0 after 30 minutes, in the middle of a 6 games in 10 days streak. Would you go all in to try to come back and win ? Or would you maybe relax a bit, hope for possible mistakes or turnovers from your opponent to make up the score while trying to stay away from potential injuries/suspension/frustration/etc (a.k.a. kinda give up on that game) AND go all in next game to get the W ?

I do reckon that this attitude is really negative and shouldn't be encouraged, but... you know... sometimes it's not your night..

That's a good point. The mind must be persuaded that there's a point before the will can commit. We were a step or three behind NY after a pretty good start. Two lucky goals and their rested legs are all over us for the rest of the game. I was very impressed with the NY team, but no fair comparison could be made. We were dead out there. No big deal. And Stoparski didn't shine either. Again, no big deal.

This is not to say that I think we're playing great hockey all the time.. I don't .. but I really like the potential is see forming with this team, and when this engine is firing it's a beautiful thing.. and did I say thank God for Carey? Thank God for Carey. He's a third of our team.

[Habs30/31]

well... to be honest... in the end, what matters is getting 16 W in the playoffs. Don't really care about how we get these 16.

true enough !