Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Ha ha, I too cheer for the Bruins over the Leafs. The difference seems to be that I respect the Bruins as a great opponent. The Leafs and their matrix of media cheerleaders, I have absolutely nothing but contempt for, and if they never make the playoffs again it'll be too soon. As Captain Kirk said of the Klingons: LET THEM DIE!!! On the other thing, anyone who says they don't like Gretzky or Coffey or even Kessel is just vibrating on a totally different frequency from me. You're talking about spectacular, electrifying hockey players, one of whom is the greatest ever to lace up. Those are three players who elevate by a massive degree the entertainment value of any game they're in. They dazzle. And any Habs' fan who craps on their heads needs to ask themselves honestly what they would make of Guy Lafleur: not a soft or defensively irresponsible player by any means, but fundamentally NOT a grind-it-out guy. He too was an elegant dazzler like those three. Hate their game, you hate his, it seems to me. I think it's fair to call it a preference thing. People prefer a player who grinds it out. The Ryan Callahan types who always looked like they are working hard when sometimes working hard means they are hardly working. Grinders with skill have a tendency to burn very bright and burn out fast. Even Mark Messier playing as long as he did was a surprise. I know Bruins fans who appreciated Cam Neely more than any other Bruin in history, including Bobby Orr. The reason? They can understand Neely. Hard working, big guy, everything makes sense. Bobby Orr was on another level. He was from a different world. That's not so easy to understand, someone playing the game at the level he did. Guys like Orr and Hasek and Gretzky get this sort of "he was lucky/people weren't allowed to hit him/the league didn't catch up with him" excuses for their performances because some people can't understand how a hockey player could be that good. Cam Neely? Everyone can understand Cam Neely. Big guy that works hard. Some people would rather see someone grind out a win like Rugby than see someone look like a magician, making the impossible possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Orr is God in Boston Bourque is the Pope Neely is a Bishop or Cardinal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Orr is God in Boston Bourque is the Pope Neely is a Bishop or Cardinal Goto any Boston Bruins fan forum and count Cam Neely avatars compared to Bobby Orr or Ray Bourque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Goto any Boston Bruins fan forum and... I can't do that. I end up reading posts, and then find my rather acute case of misanthropy flaring up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 go to a FORUM?! haha, I suppose we speak for all the montreal canadien fans too right? just because we're on a forum doesn't mean squat. the cam neely avatars only represent the ppl on that forum. most bruin fans that can even remember Orr are probably not concerned with what happens on a forum..or even a computer for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 i would take seguin over kessel so would i - don't even need to think about it - until you think that it is actually Kessel for Seguin AND Hamilton, and i think there was another pick as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I think it's fair to call it a preference thing. People prefer a player who grinds it out. The Ryan Callahan types who always looked like they are working hard when sometimes working hard means they are hardly working. Grinders with skill have a tendency to burn very bright and burn out fast. Even Mark Messier playing as long as he did was a surprise. I know Bruins fans who appreciated Cam Neely more than any other Bruin in history, including Bobby Orr. The reason? They can understand Neely. Hard working, big guy, everything makes sense. Bobby Orr was on another level. He was from a different world. That's not so easy to understand, someone playing the game at the level of Orr and Hasek and Gretzky get this sort of "he was lucky/people weren't allowed to hit him/the league didn't catch up with him" excuses for their performances because some people can't understand how a hockey player could be that good. Cam Neely? Everyone can understand Cam Neely. Big guy that works hard. Some people would rather see someone grind out a win like Rugby than see someone look like a magician, making the impossible possible. A thoughtful take, and quite possibly spot-on. It's almost as though people feel there's something vaguely unfair or suspicious about sheer, God-given talent. Hell, even PK Subban has faced some of this, with the demand that he stop being so flashy, Interesting, too, that this attitude seems less prevalent in Quebec, where a huge chunk of fans lionize gifted players even when they're loopy (Kovalev). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Gretzky was a hockey god. In his prime -- I don't care if it's a different league, faster, bigger -- he might not have put up 216 or 92 goals, but he'd still have put up 170 and 75 goals. Was he a great backchecker? No, but you don't need to be when you hold the puck in the other team's end 80% of the time. Nobody ever has -- and I doubt anybody ever will -- compare to Gretzky's sheer hockey IQ. He was bloody brilliant. Gretzky was pure domination. In my mind, Gretzky is the greatest athlete ever (and Floyd Mayweather is the greatest athlete today) because of how much better he was than his peers. He reminds me of Little Walter (Jacobs) on harmonica. There's no intelligent argument against to make. LW was simply the greatest person to ever pick up the harmonica, and no one has, or ever will come close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Goto any Boston Bruins fan forum and count Cam Neely avatars compared to Bobby Orr or Ray Bourque. That's a fan identity issue. Boston Bruins fans root for the Big Bad Bruins. Cam Neely and Lucic represent that, like Guy Lafleur embodies the Flying Frenchmen. Somehow the nonsense of Don Cherry and post-whistle scrums are more important to Boston Bruins fans than having some of the greatest defensemen ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I think bruins fan that love Neely more than Orr or Bourque, love him because he was a Habs killer. There are only two bruins that have consistently hurt the Habs - cam Neely and Nathan Horton - although in Horton's cas it was really only in their cup year. That's a fan identity issue. Boston Bruins fans root for the Big Bad Bruins. Cam Neely and Lucic represent that, like Guy Lafleur embodies the Flying Frenchmen. Somehow the nonsense of Don Cherry and post-whistle scrums are more important to Boston Bruins fans than having some of the greatest defensemen ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Interesting idea that the avatar on a discussion board can indicate fan preferences for a player over the generations. For instance, my avatar, as you can see, is Gallagher because I admire his intense competitive nature, his love of the game and the way he proves the size fetishists wrong. I am exactly like him in rugby and hockey-- except much older and minus the speed and overall talent However, that does not mean that I think Gallagher is better than Lafleur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Gretzky was pure domination. In my mind, Gretzky is the greatest athlete ever (and Floyd Mayweather is the greatest athlete today) because of how much better he was than his peers. He reminds me of Little Walter (Jacobs) on harmonica. There's no intelligent argument against to make. LW was simply the greatest person to ever pick up the harmonica, and no one has, or ever will come close. I had the pleasure of seeing Gretzky in the Forum during the 1991 Canada Cup Final. He had, I think it was, three assists in the first period alone against the USA and would have had another if whoever he was passing to had not completely bungled the shot created by Gretzky's perfect play. It was as dominating an individual performance as any I've ever seen. He was like a chess master out there and there was no one else who could compare. Unfortunately, Gretz was injured thereafter and didn't play for the rest of the Finals. But it as clear seeing that that this guy simply had the highest hockey IQ imaginable. He was simply a transcendent player. And what was amazing about him was that he was such a thinking man's player. He didn't overpower you with speed or with muscle, but with sheer vision that allowed him to read the patterns on the ice and anticipate everything two steps ahead of everyone else. (Crosby has a little bit of the same "anticipatory" quality, and that's one reason why people are always trying to downgrade Crosby - they want him to be more spectacular and don't see that he reads the play so superbly he doesn't need to be). In short, Gretzky was the hockey equivalent of a genius. Like Mozart. Thank God he was entering the downside and had a so-so supporting cast in 1993, or we might never have won Cup #24! The only other player I've ever seen in #99's class is Mario Lemieux, of course. Gretzky is the greatest player ever (OK, maybe Orr can make the claim), but Mario Lemieux is the most talented player of my lifetime and possibly of all time. Just an unbelievable package of size and skill. For whatever reason, though, he could never be relied to bring it game in, game out, year after year, in the manner that Gretzky did. Of course his injuries and illnesses didn't help. But at the end of the day, it's about results, and #99 brought them like no one else before or since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 so would i - don't even need to think about it - until you think that it is actually Kessel for Seguin AND Hamilton, and i think there was another pick as well? It drives me nuts when people mention this trade as if it was Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton. No, it was Kessel for two first round picks and a second round pick. When burke made the deal, he didn't anticipate that his team would finish as poorly as it did and that's why it turned out to be Seguin. Anytime there is a comparison between the two players I want to punch something. We don't compare Craig Rivet to Max Pacioretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 That's the gamble you take trading first round picks every time. Also Toronto was built horribly. Burke was always bad at team projection and that one time it cost him his extremely good trading history. Burke almost always gets the best out of trades. He didn't that time the moment the deal was made. Especially when he could have used an offer sheet and only gave up a first, second and third but wouldn't out of pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Burke was probably one if the few people who didn't think the leafs would have sucked and I actually bring up all the time, how dumb Wilson was to give up a 1st rounder for a bottom pairing dman. It drives me nuts when people mention this trade as if it was Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton. No, it was Kessel for two first round picks and a second round pick. When burke made the deal, he didn't anticipate that his team would finish as poorly as it did and that's why it turned out to be Seguin. Anytime there is a comparison between the two players I want to punch something. We don't compare Craig Rivet to Max Pacioretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Burke was probably one if the few people who didn't think the leafs would have sucked and I actually bring up all the time, how dumb Wilson was to give up a 1st rounder for a bottom pairing dman. SJ bought heavily into Rivet's supposed leadership qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Rivet was a good team guy, Saku's bodyguard, and he contributed to the Habs greatly...On the day he was traded..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Rivet was a good team guy, Saku's bodyguard, and he contributed to the Habs greatly... On the day he was traded..... Scotty bowman didn't think much about having "good team guy's" unless they could actually play. Rivet was a 6 dman on a good team. You don't move a 1st/2nd rounder for that. it's no wonder why SJS haven't won anything, if they need to get leadership by bringing in a fringe grunt player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Yep, yer right 29, and I don't mind if SJ never wins a thing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.