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Cole dealt for Michael Ryder


nhfarber

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Did we really get better?

We got smaller. We got less physical. We got a guy who, lest we forget, was a paper-plane throwing, lackadaisical traitor.

We did get a 35 goal scorer, but we also gave up a 35 goal scorer, but this one we have now is only here for less than 30 games. Is Ryder really all that likely to re-sign? And then are we really all that likely to sign a better player? It's nice to look at all the free agents this summer, but none of them are guarantees.

We're top of the Eastern conference and just traded a power forward for a PP specialist. Oh, but at least we got a 3rd round pick!

I am not currently a fan of this deal.

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We're top of the Eastern conference and just traded a power forward for a PP specialist. Oh, but at least we got a 3rd round pick!

He was a PP specialist in his first stint with the Habs but not so much anymore. Since leaving the Canadiens five years ago, only 34 of his 104 goals have come with the man advantage. (With Montreal, 46/99 were PPG's.) Last year, he had the fifth most even strength goals in the league.

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I don't mind the the deal. They didn't get that much smaller, the way Cole was playing this year he was pretty invisible and looked nothing like last year. it frees up space. They will obviosly make a run at the big ufa's, i'd be shocked if they landed one.

Ryder will help the PP, it adds another RH shot since Gionta isn't doing much.

I had a thougth on the last buy out, if MB can't move Gionta, maybe they buy him out over Kaberle. If someone goes down defensively having a vet who is a good passer never hurts. Plus with Gallegher's emergence you can only have too many small guys.

Adding a pick was a bonus.

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I tend to agree with Trizzak (negative) or Commandant ('it all depends on what we do with the cap savings; short term a bad deal'). I'm somewhat surprised that people are satisfied that Ryder's stats are comparable to Cole's - as if that somehow makes up for the speed, size, and power forward game that Cole brought. No, it doesn't. Similarly, people are referencing Cole's slow start. But he had a slow start last season too and nobody, but nobody, would have traded Cole for Ryder last year. In terms of player identity, Cole was just what the doctor ordered. Ryder, meanwhile, is a good player - I always liked him - but somewhat one-dimensional and streaky to boot.

I am worried that Therrien felt Cole was redundant given that Rene Bourque has awoken to play a power forward role. That would be the kind of moronic judgement I'd have expected from Therrien when I first condemned his hiring. Let's see how he feels when Bourque hits one of his extended dry spells.

As for the proposition that a 3rd round pick is such an awesome ingredient, this seems like partially wishful thinking to me. Yes, it's great to have more picks, but the pick is just as likely to come to nothing as turn into Mats Naslund. That doesn't make me feel better about losing our best player from last season.

That leaves us with the following arguments for the trade:

-cap savings for hypothetical, major future improvement

-Cole wanted out

As for the former, I will certainly feel better if the end result is a Corey Perry. (Note that there is absolutely zero that is inevitable about this; we could just as easily lose Ryder to free agency and get nobody back. Think about that). The latter is more depressing than gratifying. Bottom line is, we're a worse team today than yesterday. Stop kidding yourselves, folks.

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Well said C.C. True that COle had a slow start, but he had a slow start last year.

Anyways, I guess there's no use in bitchn' about this deal, it's done. Nothing I can do about it! I'll pray to the hockey gods that Ryder will make me forget about Cole.

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Well said C.C. True that COle had a slow start, but he had a slow start last year.

Anyways, I guess there's no use in bitchn' about this deal, it's done. Nothing I can do about it! I'll pray to the hockey gods that Ryder will make me forget about Cole.

Ha ha, I find that outcome really unlikely. No offence to Ryder, but stack up his best against Cole's best and it's no contest.

I'm honestly puzzled by all the enthusiasm. I think it comes down to the wide-eyed love fans have for hypotheticals. Like, MAYBE we can use that cap space to sign Corey Perry!! (No doubt to a deal everyone will eventually come to condemn as too long and too expensive - assuming we sign any big name at all). MAYBE we can use that pick to draft another Tomas Plekanec!! (Never mind that it's statistically more likely to be another Jozef Balej). The birds in the bush always seem to outweigh the bird in the hand. Me, all I see is we traded our best player from last season for an impending UFA of inferior value, a middling pick, and hypothetical cap space which, for all we know, may be spent on re-signing Ryder, or nobody at all. I don't see how one can click one's heels at that.

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Ryder we know what we have offensively, he seems to have better +/- numbers so

maybe he is less a liability that he was when not scoring. We'll see, i would replace

Gionta with Ryder.

Cole body language was saying get me outta here, that's what he got. Althought

his physical strenght would have helped habs down the road this year. Habs will

have to find something better than Armstrong, White and Moen to help Prust in that

department.

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Yeah alright....time to dust off the old Ryder Jersey (I've always like the way the name looks on a Habs jersey)......now if we could just get Higgins back I can wear all my jerseys again.

Welcome Back Mikey.....

I think he will look really good beside Eller and Galchenyuk, from the past couple of games I've noticed that line gets alot of chances off the rush.....which is perfect for Ryder's ability to finish. He has a great shot, and both Eller and chucky can get him the puck on the rush.

I really dont think that we lose that much by swaping the two, with the extra cap space and pick its a no brainer, lets face it guys we are not going to win the cup this year but in 2-3 years we will be ready......good show MB

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As for the former, I will certainly feel better if the end result is a Corey Perry. (Note that there is absolutely zero that is inevitable about this; we could just as easily lose Ryder to free agency and get nobody back. Think about that). The latter is more depressing than gratifying. Bottom line is, we're a worse team today than yesterday. Stop kidding yourselves, folks.

What is Montreal going to when Galchenyuk and Gallagher are technically ready for 15-18 minutes a game? Continue to play them third line due to forward depth?

I know the trade target for many was Gionta and not Cole but room did have to be made for next season. Galchenyuk and Gallagher are developing very well, same to Lars Eller. Eventually the depth is nice but you need to make room for these sort of players.

If Montreal gets Corey Perry in free agency we're going after a Cup sooner than you or I think. Otherwise the team is just continuing a strong development. Montreal is looking at $16.5M free next summer with Kaberle bought out by my estimation. That's even with the cap drop.

I'm not a fan of losing Erik Cole but we're not getting 2007-2008 Michael Ryder back. We're getting 2011-2012 Michael Ryder back. Completely different player.

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What is Montreal going to when Galchenyuk and Gallagher are technically ready for 15-18 minutes a game? Continue to play them third line due to forward depth?

I know the trade target for many was Gionta and not Cole but room did have to be made for next season. Galchenyuk and Gallagher are developing very well, same to Lars Eller. Eventually the depth is nice but you need to make room for these sort of players.

If Montreal gets Corey Perry in free agency we're going after a Cup sooner than you or I think. Otherwise the team is just continuing a strong development. Montreal is looking at $16.5M free next summer with Kaberle bought out by my estimation. That's even with the cap drop.

I'm not a fan of losing Erik Cole but we're not getting 2007-2008 Michael Ryder back. We're getting 2011-2012 Michael Ryder back. Completely different player.

Well, I'm not in a frothing RAGE about the deal. But I don't like it and I just don't understand all the glee.

You make a good point about the Gallys. But sheesh, it seems to be radically premature to be shipping out last year's best player in order to 'make room' for guys who have played 20 NHL games. That's kinda odd to me.

I'd love it if we signed a major, impact player with the cap space. That'd certainly turn the trade into something worth celebrating. (But I guarantee you that 90% of fans presently salivating at what we could do with that cap space will be fuming over the 'bloated cap hit' and 'excessive term' granted to whatever UFA we do sign. Just a side note). Anyway, until that moment, I see no cause to celebrate.

Basically, then, the whole deal is contingent on Cole really and truly being washed up, or else that he really did want out. If it's the former, then kudos to MB for a cagey move. If it's the latter, then that's a drag and we at least got something for the sadly lost asset. Only in the former case is there reason for satisfaction. The rest is just a bunch of maybes.

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Cole wasn't just having a slow start. He didn't look good and was not playing as a power forward. Frankly, i think he wanted out.

Pacs was having a slow start, but the effort was there. Cole, not so much.

This was apparently about trading Cole. Once that was decided, it was about what you get back. Getting a top scorer, cap relief, and a pick is a lot more then we usually get.

I am not keen on losing size either, but it isn't that much size, and Cole wasn't using his this year anyway. If we want to address size, we need to trade Gionta for a bigger, younger, better player. I am willing to be patient.

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Cole wasn't just having a slow start. He didn't look good and was not playing as a power forward. Frankly, i think he wanted out.

Pacs was having a slow start, but the effort was there. Cole, not so much.

This was apparently about trading Cole. Once that was decided, it was about what you get back. Getting a top scorer, cap relief, and a pick is a lot more then we usually get.

I am not keen on losing size either, but it isn't that much size, and Cole wasn't using his this year anyway. If we want to address size, we need to trade Gionta for a bigger, younger, better player. I am willing to be patient.

Well, I said my piece. IF Cole is done, it's a smart move. IF he truly wanted out, it's a regrettable but necessary salvage job.

The only other way to spin this dross into gold is to shift into La La Land, dreaming of imaginary UFA homeruns and all-stars picked in Round Three.

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It's easy to forget but Erik Cole wasn't a Marc Bergevin addition. He said after the trade he's always looking to improve the team. Maybe Cole wasn't a Therrien/Bergevin guy in the locker room?

I don't consider Ryder a great fit aside from the fact he's got a right handed wrist shot. He can honestly be traded at the deadline for a first if we need to. But we need to erase our memories of him in the last season with Montreal and remember three REAL things about Ryder and three PERCEIVED things about Ryder:

REAL

1. Right handed 30+ goal scorer

2. Strong road scorer his entire career

3. New option on the Power Play

PERCEIVED

1. Leafs/Bruins killer

2. Would have likely been traded at the deadline otherwise to another team where Ryder would have killed us like he did in Boston

3. Gives the team serious flexibility to do what they want in the summer

Also, I thought at first that playing him third line was silly but it turns out that Dallas limited his ice time to just 16 minutes. Playing with Eller and Galchenyuk would be perfect.

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I don't get the negativity around Ryder. He is a goal scorer and over the last five years has out performed Cole. He is out performing Cole by a wide margin his year. If Cole is not in our long term plans, getting rid of him quick is a good idea.

As for the slow start by Cole, he started slow last year adjusting to a new team. No excuse this year. Over his career, stats do not show him as being a slow starter.

I take comfort in he fact that Bergevin doesn't appear to be impulsive. If he decided to get rid of Cole, he has his reasons. I trust him to be working his plan.

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I don't get the negativity around Ryder. He is a goal scorer and over the last five years has out performed Cole. He is out performing Cole by a wide margin his year. If Cole is not in our long term plans, getting rid of him quick is a good idea.

As for the slow start by Cole, he started slow last year adjusting to a new team. No excuse this year. Over his career, stats do not show him as being a slow starter.

I take comfort in he fact that Bergevin doesn't appear to be impulsive. If he decided to get rid of Cole, he has his reasons. I trust him to be working his plan.

Cole's slow start last season was also due to Jacques Martin not playing him on the PP and being reluctant to give him top six time for whatever reason.

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I still think it's a tough trade to make. The Habs are first in the East and are "likely?" headed to the playoffs. You cannot get smaller and expect to beat the big teams of the east in a seven game series.

I get the whole cap relief, possible free agent thing, but why not try to win it this year? If Cole continued to struggle you move him at the deadline.

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I still think it's a tough trade to make. The Habs are first in the East and are "likely?" headed to the playoffs. You cannot get smaller and expect to beat the big teams of the east in a seven game series.

I get the whole cap relief, possible free agent thing, but why not try to win it this year? If Cole continued to struggle you move him at the deadline.

That's OK, we win the Cap Space Cup. The only Cup that matters apparently. ;)

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I still think it's a tough trade to make. The Habs are first in the East and are "likely?" headed to the playoffs. You cannot get smaller and expect to beat the big teams of the east in a seven game series.

I get the whole cap relief, possible free agent thing, but why not try to win it this year? If Cole continued to struggle you move him at the deadline.

Maybe a realistic assessment of a team that is having a great start, but hasn't beaten Toronto, or Boston. I dont think we are appreciably worse this year with Ryder, and Berg clearly has a plan to build the team into a consistent winner. I don't think he will toss the plan for a quick shot at the cup. If we make a run fine, but not at the expense of our future.

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I'm not wearing the rose colored Bergevin glasses, so I'm kind of bummed about this deal. I liked Cole, and I liked his game. He couldn't have been dealt due to his 'slow start', as he's always been a slow starter. I'll miss his size, the physical element he did bring to the game. Relying on the oft (if freakishly) injured with magical healing powers Patches and a revitalized (and currently concussed) Bourque to carry the 'power forward' role seems a bit iffy. Cole was a player we've clamored for for years, and he's gone. Prust is a good addition to the team, but he does not have the talent of the prototypical power forward. An admirable fill in, he shouldn't be top 6 at any point. I must admit that I cringed when Ryder's pp prowess was mentioned and the 'need' he would fill...wasn't that what we heard about Kaberle last year?

Ryder's back. Maybe Bergy can pry Ribs out of DC.

The move gives the Habs more flexibility next season, but that better mean securing a player at least of Cole's caliber. whoever that is, they must high five the ref after a goal...

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I'm not wearing the rose colored Bergevin glasses, so I'm kind of bummed about this deal. I liked Cole, and I liked his game. He couldn't have been dealt due to his 'slow start', as he's always been a slow starter. I'll miss his size, the physical element he did bring to the game. Relying on the oft (if freakishly) injured with magical healing powers Patches and a revitalized (and currently concussed) Bourque to carry the 'power forward' role seems a bit iffy. Cole was a player we've clamored for for years, and he's gone. Prust is a good addition to the team, but he does not have the talent of the prototypical power forward. An admirable fill in, he shouldn't be top 6 at any point. I must admit that I cringed when Ryder's pp prowess was mentioned and the 'need' he would fill...wasn't that what we heard about Kaberle last year?

Ryder's back. Maybe Bergy can pry Ribs out of DC.

The move gives the Habs more flexibility next season, but that better mean securing a player at least of Cole's caliber. whoever that is, they must high five the ref after a goal...

Ha ha, I saw one list of the great UFAs we can bag with the cap savings. Ribs was maybe the third best player on the list :nuts: Perhaps fans anticipating a UFA home run had better think again.

Joe, that is some fine work :thumbs_up:

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I'm not wearing the rose colored Bergevin glasses, so I'm kind of bummed about this deal. I liked Cole, and I liked his game. He couldn't have been dealt due to his 'slow start', as he's always been a slow starter. I'll miss his size, the physical element he did bring to the game. Relying on the oft (if freakishly) injured with magical healing powers Patches and a revitalized (and currently concussed) Bourque to carry the 'power forward' role seems a bit iffy. Cole was a player we've clamored for for years, and he's gone. Prust is a good addition to the team, but he does not have the talent of the prototypical power forward. An admirable fill in, he shouldn't be top 6 at any point. I must admit that I cringed when Ryder's pp prowess was mentioned and the 'need' he would fill...wasn't that what we heard about Kaberle last year?

Ryder's back. Maybe Bergy can pry Ribs out of DC.

The move gives the Habs more flexibility next season, but that better mean securing a player at least of Cole's caliber. whoever that is, they must high five the ref after a goal...

Yes Cole was what we needed and wanted for years. Tough to lose him. He did great things when he was here and we'll feel the effect of his mentoring/example with Patches for years to come.

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But sheesh, it seems to be radically premature to be shipping out last year's best player in order to 'make room' for guys who have played 20 NHL games. That's kinda odd to me.

I will wait to offer judgement on the trade. What I can say is this: "last's year's best player" means almost squat in today's NHL. I'm not going to argue your reasoning on the other points, which is sound as usual, but I don't care how good a player *was.* If he's sucking the ice off the concrete today, then his past is meaningless. Yes, slow starter. Yes, could very well pick it up. But worth his weight in gold jock straps right now?

Now if I'm taking last season's team like MB and am in the process of *rebuilding* this last place pigsty - and you know as well as I do that's what he's doing for all intents and purposes - then trading a 34-year old guy with another couple of seasons for a player who may be a downgrade but will probably produce at least reasonably well and then will be gone, thus opening a spot for another younger guy for the build, *and* a reasonable pick?... well that's just good business to me.

That the Habs are somehow touching the sky this season is a nice by-product of the culture and coaching and tactical changes, but how many really expect us to need a Cole in rounds 3 and 4 of the Show this spring? Despite our best wishes, I feel fairly certain this team will be working a ball right to left trying to hit that green behind the bunker. Cole is not that kind of difference maker, not now anyhow. I'll take that 3rd pick and play my luck with a scouting staff that has been uncannily good recently. Hell, with all the early-ish picks, I see the potential for some packaging and moving up the draft order.

Moreover, this trade probably just gave more ice time to Chucky (whose ice was already increasing) and will therefore keep Cole's negativity about ice time (remember early last season?) away as our kids see more play.

Ryder is just a piece. A replacement part to be inserted in a so-far impressive season who can offer something reasonable. The more I think of this, the more sense it makes for the Habs to make this move. (Which, of course, means I'm making up my mind on the trade as I type...) In the longer-term process of rebuilding the club to a perennial contender, this strikes me as a very reasonable transaction. There are so many positives to moving Cole's contract for next season (and I don't for one minute believe that the Habs will actually get a Perry or Getzlaf on the market, at least not at the present) when his age and conditioning will take another opposite step.

In fact, I'm going to go as far as to say this was a very slick move by MB. Short-term I think you can reasonably argue he may have lost the deal, assuming Cole comes somewhere close to the "best player" Cole of last season. But Ryder is a competent if not great replacement. The pick and the maneuverability gained with the cap space, though, is quite impressive. There are so many more options open for the future when MB will need open options. And if Cole *is* slowing down, which is reasonable to assume at his age combined with the fact that he's a power forward, and therefore battered and bruised more than the average player, then not having him struggling for a full 82-game (+) schedule might be a the more viable option.

Yes, a lot of this is speculation, but none of it is inherently unreasonable. Power forwards tend to retire earlier. They slow sooner. It only makes sense given the punishing style with which they play the game.

And here's some more speculation: I don't think Kaberle is untradeable. In fact, next season is his last on this deal as well. If a team like Ottawa keeps hanging on, knowing they won't get Karlsson back... Well, there are options out there. If that happens, you could reasonably see Gionta being bought out over the summer instead (at least the way he's playing now). If anything like that should happen, then I can't rule out a Perry coming to Montreal, because we'll actually have room to somewhat overpay (which seems to be the only way of getting players here). Not that I would ever advise that kind of building, but at least it's an open possibility.

Bottom line for me, this trade was done because this is a team in transition, and while we may have traded a power forward who was ostensibly the best player last season, the options the trade opens up for the future, along with the competent replacement in Ryder, makes me feel like this was a pretty good hockey decision going forward.

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i believe we are better short term as well as long term with this move...

although cole throws twice the hits, ryder is more defensively aware in his own zone. i think MT and MB are looking for someone to sullitfy the eller/galchenyuk line and realize that cole's style doesnt gel to well and we have to split the kids for now. they need a sniper not a crash and banger on that line and they may actually be right when you analyze them as group.

just taking last years stats alone its fair to say they are equal, trading stats on hits for plus/minus. cole held all the cards and said he was done.... now we deal with ryder's UFA status and add a pick (cole was free any how).

This is a sideways move with the potential to benefit us tremendously this year. Everybody thinks we are worse off short term, but we gotta be better. Cole has been non existent this season on one of the top teams in hockey to date (and we can all forget last seasons heroics on a horrible team as just that LY!) . we are playing good hockey over almost 20 games now, we just took dallas joint leading scorer and best sniper of last season..... did i mention he's also our new points leader and is currently on a 7 games point streak(9).

forget all the cap implications as clearly its a no brainer for the future.....

yes were smaller now but we could actually be more balanced and prolific?

i think ryder finds the back of the net tomorrow in TO......

a season for optimism boys........

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