Trade Habs acquire Zack Kassian

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Last season this is how our positions at forward scored:

Left Wing (Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Sekac, De La Rose, Prust, Bournival, Thomas): 76

Center (Plekanec, Eller, Desharnais, Malhotra): 56

Right Wing (Gallagher, Weise, Parenteau, Andrighetto, Smith-Pelly): 45

Meaning De La Rose needs to replace some of the LW offence (Sekac + Thomas + Bournival + Prust = 15 Goals) while Smith-Pelly and Kassian have to replace the RW offence (Parenteau + Andrighetto = 10 goals) which means combined the team has to replace 25 goals. That shouldn't be hard. We never saw DSP in a full season, never saw DLR in a full season and never got Flynn and Mitchell in a full season. Weise totals might drop but otherwise I don't think it'll be hard for the RW to improve on the 45 goal mark.

(P.S.: If the center goal scoring is alarming to you, remember that trading Plekanec means we have to replace 26 goals down the middle.)

What's discouraging about this (excellent) analysis is that the objective is to make the team score MORE, not just replace what we lost. Now, clearly, the team is not going to be any worse offensively - as you say, the replacements should be able to at least recover what we've sent away. But it's far from a no-brainer that this team is significantly better now than it was at the end of the playoff. We've added a player of some potential in Kassian - but he's a project and we shouldn't assume he will suddenly put it all together. I've been a proponent of 'incremental' gains as a valid option, but it's not clear we've really scored significant incremental gains here in terms of offensive output.

EDIT: if you haven't read this eulogy for Kassian as a Canuck, you should - it pretty much captures what you need to know about the guy we're getting: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/07/01/kassian-should-have-been-vancouver-royalty/

[Machine of Loving Grace]

On the negative side, we could get in injury trouble and lose out on goals we just count on.

On the positive side, we have two right wingers in DSP and Kassian where if either hit their stride, they could cover the 25 goals as an individual.

It's important to recognize that DLR and DSP along with Mitchell and Flynn were with us only for 20-30 games and not the full season. Even Kassian's totals in Vancouver were for half a season.

Add Petry for our defensive depth and a seasoned Beaulieu and adding 20-25 goals isn't implausible with this roster. All depends on who slumps, who gets hot, who gets hurt and who gets traded.

[lazy26]

On the negative side, we could get in injury trouble and lose out on goals we just count on.

On the positive side, we have two right wingers in DSP and Kassian where if either hit their stride, they could cover the 25 goals as an individual.

It's important to recognize that DLR and DSP along with Mitchell and Flynn were with us only for 20-30 games and not the full season. Even Kassian's totals in Vancouver were for half a season.

Add Petry for our defensive depth and a seasoned Beaulieu and adding 20-25 goals isn't implausible with this roster. All depends on who slumps, who gets hot, who gets hurt and who gets traded.

And I really don't think Bergevin is done. Sources say he was in on both Beleskey and Williams; I still think he'll sign or make a move for a top 6 fwd.

[DON]

Is what Lebrun hinted at.

[habs rule]

What's discouraging about this (excellent) analysis is that the objective is to make the team score MORE, not just replace what we lost. Now, clearly, the team is not going to be any worse offensively - as you say, the replacements should be able to at least recover what we've sent away. But it's far from a no-brainer that this team is significantly better now than it was at the end of the playoff. We've added a player of some potential in Kassian - but he's a project and we shouldn't assume he will suddenly put it all together. I've been a proponent of 'incremental' gains as a valid option, but it's not clear we've really scored significant incremental gains here in terms of offensive output.

EDIT: if you haven't read this eulogy for Kassian as a Canuck, you should - it pretty much captures what you need to know about the guy we're getting: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/07/01/kassian-should-have-been-vancouver-royalty/

Very interesting article I hope we don't have another Bourque on our hands. But on the bright side we have a really strong dressing room that may help him get his head on straight. Let's hope so cause I think he really fits our team if he plays to his potential.

[Dalhabs]

Very interesting article I hope we don't have another Bourque on our hands. But on the bright side we have a really strong dressing room that may help him get his head on straight. Let's hope so cause I think he really fits our team if he plays to his potential.

If we have another Bourque then at least its not the same $ and only one year. Send him to the minors and we clear out even more of Prusts 2.5M$.

[Davehab]

I have a good feeling about this deal. I liked Prust but he was gone no matter what at the end of the year, so MB moved him for a return. If it works out for us good, if not then its not a big commitment. Plus there is a chance we hit a home run on this deal.

[KoRP]

I agree Davehab, this guy just may need a guy like Therrien to straighten him out, and there is a huge upside to Kassian.

I did like Prust as a Hab, but the time was almost over, and that cap space is nice, and so is the top 6 potential of Kassian.

[nihilz]

Reading the Canucks HFBoards is hilarious! They are devastated!

Jim Benning may get lynched lmao

[Dalhabs]

Prust was worth his money just for his work with the younger players. I bet he will be useful for the nucks as well. Wonder what it would take to resign him next summer?

[Guest Stogey24]

Prust was worth his money just for his work with the younger players. I bet he will be useful for the nucks as well. Wonder what it would take to resign him next summer?

I could see that happening honestly. Come back next summer on a reasonable deal.

[DON]

Kassian is cheaper, younger, bigger, a RW, more skilled/more offense, bigger hitter, but just not the fighter, PK, nor character guy Prust is.

Seems a good deal for Habs (+5th pick).

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Kassian is cheaper, younger, bigger, a RW, more skilled/more offense, bigger hitter, but just not the fighter, PK, nor character guy Prust is.

Seems a good deal for Habs (+5th pick).

If he gets his head together - and Vancouver radio this morning made reference to unspecified 'off-ice issues,' usually a synonym for drinking - then we just struck gold.

My gut feeling is that the odds are about 70-30 against it at this point. I'll take those odds because the potential return is exactly what this team needs.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

If he gets his head together - and Vancouver radio this morning made reference to unspecified 'off-ice issues,' usually a synonym for drinking - then we just struck gold.

My gut feeling is that the odds are about 70-30 against it at this point. I'll take those odds because the potential return is exactly what this team needs.

He was a partier in Windsor. This was five years ago mind you.

[hab29RETIRED]

Unless your on the west coast, where drugs seem to be much more of issue lately than drinking.

I've said it again and I'll say it again, if we are going to make a significant improvement it will be via a trade, or an RFA signing. We aren't going to find a solid upgrade via the UFA route. This year's crop isn't that great and you usually end up overpaying significantly even if there is someone good available.

Glencross felt he took a discount in the past, and now being a shadow of the player he was and is now looking for term and dollers. I'd take a flyer on reclamation projects like Semin, or Stewart on a one year $1.5m to $2m, but some fool will probably offer more. But there is a reason these guys are still available.

To make a significant approval, we need to give up assets.

I suggested a couple last week and was told large multiplayer deals don't happen, than of course we has the Kessel and Saad deals, which refutes that. The guy that it makes the most sense to move is pleks who is on his last year of his contract and will still have high value, but guys here act like he is irreplaceable like Crosby or Toews.

If he gets his head together - and Vancouver radio this morning made reference to unspecified 'off-ice issues,' usually a synonym for drinking - then we just struck gold.

My gut feeling is that the odds are about 70-30 against it at this point. I'll take those odds because the potential return is exactly what this team needs.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Unless your on the west coast, where drugs seem to be much more of issue lately than drinking.

I've said it again and I'll say it again, if we are going to make a significant improvement it will be via a trade, or an RFA signing. We aren't going to find a solid upgrade via the UFA route. This year's crop isn't that great and you usually end up overpaying significantly even if there is someone good available.

Glencross felt he took a discount in the past, and now being a shadow of the player he was and is now looking for term and dollers. I'd take a flyer on reclamation projects like Semin, or Stewart on a one year $1.5m to $2m, but some fool will probably offer more. But there is a reason these guys are still available.

To make a significant approval, we need to give up assets.

I suggested a couple last week and was told large multiplayer deals don't happen, than of course we has the Kessel and Saad deals, which refutes that. The guy that it makes the most sense to move is pleks who is on his last year of his contract and will still have high value, but guys here act like he is irreplaceable like Crosby or Toews.

The guys I was looking to as possible contributors to 'incremental gains' - the Froliks and the Williams' - are gone. So at this stage, I think you're basically right. Mind you, we could trade second-tier assets for a second-tier winger and attain the required incremental gains that way. But a trade does seem to be the only remaining option to upgrade.

Pleks has good value, no question about it. But I think you under-estimate how difficult it will be to replace his contribution. Certainly we would have to go out and acquire a C capable of eating hard defensive minutes - unless DLR is better than I think he is at this early stage of his career. So, no, he's not untouchable, but he is extremely important and hard to replace.

[habs rule]

The guys I was looking to as possible contributors to 'incremental gains' - the Froliks and the Williams' - are gone. So at this stage, I think you're basically right. Mind you, we could trade second-tier assets for a second-tier winger and attain the required incremental gains that way. But a trade does seem to be the only remaining option to upgrade.

Pleks has good value, no question about it. But I think you under-estimate how difficult it will be to replace his contribution. Certainly we would have to go out and acquire a C capable of eating hard defensive minutes - unless DLR is better than I think he is at this early stage of his career. So, no, he's not untouchable, but he is extremely important and hard to replace.

I agree CC but it getting to be time fish or cut bait with him. He has real value right now. Next year? maybe not. I won't be shocked if he is traded for offence.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I suggested a couple last week and was told large multiplayer deals don't happen, than of course we has the Kessel and Saad deals, which refutes that. The guy that it makes the most sense to move is pleks who is on his last year of his contract and will still have high value, but guys here act like he is irreplaceable like Crosby or Toews.

Tone down the hyperbole.

I continually bring up actual statistics of where Plekanec was as a player last season and that the replacements you suggest fall extremely below his production. I also ask who is supposed to replace the numbers when Plekanec is traded and get no real response.

Is he Crosby or Toews? No, but Plekanec is when looking at 2014-2015 regular season stats:

- 25th best scoring centre

- 16th best goal scoring centre

- 16th best power play goal scoring centre

- 30th best Power play Point producing centre

- 19th most used centre TOI:G

For a team already low on goals, already low on powerplay goals, already weak at the centre position and already criticized for lack of depth down the middle, how do you intend we get better by trading him for Nail Yakupov, who you constantly consider a target in a Plekanec trade? How does moving Tomas Plekanec help us get better at centre? What, we just move Alex Galchenyuk there and he magically outperforms Plekanec? The San Jose Sharks are just going to cough up Joe Pavelski because we say so? We move him for David Backes, whose only advantage over Plekanec is size?

I wouldn't keep talking about Plekanec if people didn't keep calling him "better suited for third line centre" or say they want to move a 33 point winger for him is somehow the way to go. I'm not saying he's as valuable to the Habs as Crosby or Toews. I'm saying until you give me a scenario that's going to improve the team, stop undervaluing what Tomas Plekanec provides.

[dlbalr]

I suggested a couple last week and was told large multiplayer deals don't happen, than of course we has the Kessel and Saad deals, which refutes that. The guy that it makes the most sense to move is pleks who is on his last year of his contract and will still have high value, but guys here act like he is irreplaceable like Crosby or Toews.

It's not that they don't happen, it's that they don't happen for the value you often suggest in return. You have to give quality, not quantity. Saad didn't go for quantity - he fetched Anisimov, an established NHL'er and a good first round prospect that is expected to be a core piece in a year or two that already has had some success at the NHL level. Kessel was a bit more quantity-based because of his contract and even still, he fetched two first round picks plus other pieces, far more than some on here thought he'd get. You even remarked yourself that you wouldn't have done the deal based on what Montreal's equivalent return would have been.

Good players get traded. But they get dealt for other good players and prospects, not players that fans want to see move because they're overpaid, a couple of middle-tier prospects, and a second rounder. Those are the deals I and others keep saying don't happen.

[DON]

Honestly it seems some simply want big trades for sake of big trades. Pitt & Leafs were 2 desperate teams grasping at chance to land sniper to help Crosby before he retires from next concussion and other team had to off-load a stupidly huge boat-anchor contract.

And some are now saying Bergevin/Habs are losing out on UFAs they were in-play for, by being too cheap/conservative. But, also if offered Belesky $5m for 5 years and he underperformed; you know damn well the same critics would be first to chime in on how dumb a signing it was.

[ICEWATER77]

I'm actually glad MB hasn't signed any of the UFA's! I don't think any of these guys would be our missing ingredient. If the right deal is to be made, it will be. If not, we cross our fingers and hope for the best from a few youngins. We'll still be a playoff team, with or without any potential trades.

[Guest Stogey24]

What would be so wrong with semin on a 1yr/1mill deal? So he shits the bed... Let him walk next year. It's a low risk move that's probably going to get you atleast 10-15 goals from the player. His shooting was at 6.5% last year compared his career average of 12.8%

[habs rule]

Honestly it seems some simply want big trades for sake of big trades. Pitt & Leafs were 2 desperate teams grasping at chance to land sniper to help Crosby before he retires from next concussion and other team had to off-load a stupidly huge boat-anchor contract.

And some are now saying Bergevin/Habs are losing out on UFAs they were in-play for, by being too cheap/conservative. But, also if offered Belesky $5m for 5 years and he underperformed; you know damn well the same critics would be first to chime in on how dumb a signing it was.

Well a big trade is suposed to be the magic bullet that takes us to the cup. Not a very likely scenario. MB always has to be aware of the law of diminishing returns. That is to say that Plekanics for instance is probably at the nadir of his value. From here on in he becomes worth less. When Markov signed his last contract I got scorned for saying we should be looking at a trade because he had value. Now he is close to retirement and not worth much. As it turned out at the time there was apparently not much of a market for Markov and I would not have traded him for the return either. He will likely retire a Hab and that is not a bad thing. If we are going to trade Plex then we had better get good value because he is a big part of this team and difficult to replace. I just am not going to trade him for a couple of picks. Unless they happen to be 1st's. MB knows what he is doing and I have faith in his GM'ing

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

What would be so wrong with semin on a 1yr/1mill deal? So he shits the bed... Let him walk next year. It's a low risk move that's probably going to get you atleast 10-15 goals from the player. His shooting was at 6.5% last year compared his career average of 12.8%

I have no problem taking a flyer on a guy like that in principle. Note, though, that in adding BOTH him and Kassian, we'd be suffering a truly massive hit in terms of character and leadership. Both are character 'negatives.' So while I have no problem adding one player like that, two in a single summer - while subtracting a Prust - seems like a step in the wrong direction.

[dlbalr]

This is Kassian's point log from last year: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/kassiza01/scoring/2015/

Worth noting - only one PP point and most of his points came away from the Sedins aside from a one week stretch.

Here's the log from 2013-14: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/kassiza01/scoring/2014/

One of his 29 points that season involved a Sedin. And only one came on the PP.

Where am I going with this? He's decent at putting up numbers at even strength and has done so without playing with Vancouver's top players. Even if he doesn't play big minutes, it looks like Kassian should be able to put up respectable production in a 3rd line role if it came down to that. (Optimistically, it makes one wonder if playing him on a top line would really get him going. I'm not sure it would but a case could be made.)

I also found this interesting from an interview with Trevor Linden - it was Benning that called the Habs about Prust and not Bergevin calling about Kassian. Apparently, the Canucks starting talking about this at the draft and Kassian moved into the discussion yesterday; a deal got done from there.