Guest Stogey24 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Not as long as we still have 8 defensemen on our 23-man roster, none of whom can be sent down to the AHL without clearing waivers. Gilbert and/or Emelin need to be moved, even if just for pics and prospects. Emelin has the only bad contract on this team. The No trade clause is the icing on the cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Not as long as we still have 8 defensemen on our 23-man roster, none of whom can be sent down to the AHL without clearing waivers. Gilbert and/or Emelin need to be moved, even if just for pics and prospects. Well yes and no I agree with you that we have 1 too many defenceman but MB loves depth, so since they can't be sent down it could be popcorn and hotdogs time for someone. It does put pressure on us if we have some injuries on the forward lines. But he can handle it. I agree Gilbert definitely needs to be moved and Emelin as well if we can get something for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Well yes and no I agree with you that we have 1 too many defenceman but MB loves depth, so since they can't be sent down it could be popcorn and hotdogs time for someone. It does put pressure on us if we have some injuries on the forward lines. But he can handle it. I agree Gilbert definitely needs to be moved and Emelin as well if we can get something for him. Gilbert for a middling pick is completely viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Gilbert for a middling pick is completely viable. Especially once training camp injuries surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 What if Tinordi draws the short straw by early Oct? What would he be worth? a 3rd round pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Trading tinordi for a middling pick 5 years after he was a first rounder would feel like a colossal waste. I'd much rather keep tinner and see what he can do. At the very least get back another struggling prospect with similar upside. A mid-late pick would stink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Trading tinordi for a middling pick 5 years after he was a first rounder would feel like a colossal waste. I'd much rather keep tinner and see what he can do. At the very least get back another struggling prospect with similar upside. A mid-late pick would stink I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Irrelevent when/where Tinordi drafted, that is history. He is what he is and if cant crack top 7 or 8 this year, maybe time to ship-him for something? And just pull for Lernout to be what we hoped Tinordi would be. He handles puck not so well (like a grenade), so is highly unlikely he would ever be a top-4 d-man and a 3rd pairing prospect isn't a huge loss. With logjam of NHL d-men, it seems main item for Bergevin to deal with now. (Deal Gilbert, Emelin or Tinordi). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 What if Tinordi draws the short straw by early Oct? What would he be worth? a 3rd round pick? If he's the #8 (or worse) come October, they'll be lucky to get even that for him. Martin Marincin, a similar player who has shown more in the NHL to-date, only fetched a 4th at the draft. If the Habs are backed into a corner in a trade-or-waive situation, the return is going to be minimal as I don't think there are many teams out there salivating at the chance to add Tinordi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 If he's not ready, it's entirely possible we put him on waivers and he just goes back down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Well, hope Tinordi's wrist healed well, he has trained hard, he comes into camp and makes Gilbert expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I think Therrien might try Subban and Emelin together again: Emelin - Subban Markov - Petry Beaulieu - Gilbert Tinordi - Pateryn Unless Bergevin "forces the hand" by trading Gilbert or Emelin, Therrien will stick to the six he played the most in the playoffs. Tinordi needs to outplay Emelin to win his LD position. Pateryn has to outplay Gilbert to win his RD position. I think that's more likely than Tinordi outperforming Emelin to the point of Bergevin moving him. I also have trouble seeing Bergevin move Emelin without taking salary back, especially not salary for a different D-Man. And if he does, that might end up being a different LD to take a spot in the six. Emelin had .21 points per game, which doesn't crack the Top 100 for D that played over 60 games. In 13-14 he was .29 with 59 games played. Is that good enough to be in our Top four? Also the maximum roster is 23. That leaves us three scratches: Tinordi, Flynn, Pateryn. Tinordi just has to play well enough to crack the NHL roster but we can keep his rights by benching him. Not the best for his development, but if you fear losing him, it's the best way to handle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Irrelevent when/where Tinordi drafted, that is history. I agree to an extent, but swapping a first for a 4th before they play a full season is how you water down the talent pool you have in the organization. I think Tinordi has a much better chance of making the NHL than the average 2nd+ round picks, and so that's why trading him for picks would be a wasted asset. Now if we got a 2nd back for him I wouldn't really complain, but Tinordi could be a solid NHLer yet, so IMO a more expensive contract such as Gilbert's would be a better trade option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I agree to an extent, but swapping a first for a 4th before they play a full season is how you water down the talent pool you have in the organization. I think Tinordi has a much better chance of making the NHL than the average 2nd+ round picks, and so that's why trading him for picks would be a wasted asset. Now if we got a 2nd back for him I wouldn't really complain, but Tinordi could be a solid NHLer yet, so IMO a more expensive contract such as Gilbert's would be a better trade option. Teams usually ship away 1st round picks when they hit 23/24 and can't crack a lineup regardless of how much they played. It's kind of a shame thing. We did it with Chipchura and Leblanc. Toronto did it with Alex Steen at 24 and kicked themselves in the ass after. Leblanc played 50 games when we moved him. Tinordi has 43 already. Wouldn't be too different of a situation and both are around the same age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Safe to say that Tinordi wont be in Habs top 4 this year nor next. So he is bottom pairing d at best for foreseeable future and Habs arnt lacking those, so stay/shipped out shouldn't be a huge deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Jared Tinordi is 23. He's not exactly a late bloomer, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No but he wont clear waivers and wont do much good for him to sit in pressbox if he cant bump Gilbert/Pateryn for a job. So options are limited. So it just kinda hasn't worked out in his favour; but in his 22 game stint with Habs in 13-14 and 13 games last fall he just hasn't shown enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No but he wont clear waivers and wont do much good for him to sit in pressbox if he cant bump Gilbert/Pateryn for a job. So options are limited. So it just kinda hasn't worked out in his favour; but in his 22 game stint with Habs in 13-14 and 13 games last fall he just hasn't shown enough. I'm not sure I'd agree. He's shown play that is easily good enough to be a 5th of 6th defenseman in the NHL. That's not as much as we'd like to see out of him, it's true, but given two defensemen capable of playing 5th or 6th d-man on the depth chart, one of whome is 23 with lots of potential to go higher, the other is at their plateau and never going to get better, you go with the younger one, even if the other one is currently a little better. I like Gilbert (well, no. I like his contract - I think he's more than passable for what he costs.) But I'd rather play Tinordi. So trade Gilbert, and do it now. His short, low-cost contract is going to be very appealing to a lot of teams in need of depth, and likely will result in a higher draft pick than what he's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 But will Bergevin trade a vet d-man in Oct? I doubt it, but something has to give. And will Barberio simply be depth or is he better than Pateryn & Tinordi, he played 52 games for Tampa last year, so cant be too bad is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 There's no way Therrien plays Tinordi on the RD. Gilbert has nothing to do with Tinordi's shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I wouldn't get real hung up on RH LH, they had no problem playing Petry-Gilbert together, played Emelin-Markov lots in past. Sure it may be best to have 3 RH and 3 LH, but not vital, more important to have the best 6 d playing isn't it? I cant see an issue playing any combo of Tinordi-Pateryn-Emelin-Gilbert as 3rd pairing. And if 76-26-77 miss a game or several, will need to be replaced by a young LH d and not Dietz or Lernout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I wouldn't get real hung up on RH LH, they had no problem playing Petry-Gilbert together, played Emelin-Markov lots in past. Sure it may be best to have 3 RH and 3 LH, but not vital, more important to have the best 6 d playing isn't it? I cant see an issue playing any combo of Tinordi-Pateryn-Emelin-Gilbert as 3rd pairing. And if 76-26-77 miss a game or several, will need to be replaced by a young LH d and not Dietz or Lernout. Veterans with experience playing off position is different. A big part of trading Gorges was to allow Emelin to play LD. Tinordi and Beaulieu have little to no experience playing RD. If they have defensive issues on their natural side, they are just going to be worse at RD. It's common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Veterans with experience playing off position is different. A big part of trading Gorges was to allow Emelin to play LD. Tinordi and Beaulieu have little to no experience playing RD. If they have defensive issues on their natural side, they are just going to be worse at RD. It's common sense. Your right. Skating backwards on your offside is a nightmare when your trying to cut an angle off on a guy. No reason to put a young guy in that situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 My ideal defense pairings this year are: Beaulieu - Subban (No, I'm not sure Beaulieu is ready yet. I just figure, let's see what he can do with real offensive minutes) Tinordi - Petry Markov - Pateryn (frequently bumping Markov into the other spots for extra shifts, but mostly limiting his ice time so as not to tire him out before the post season) Emelin can fill in if Tinordi or Beaulieu aren't pulling their weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That's what I'd like to see too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.