DON Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Obviously you know those pairings aint happening; Tinordi will be very lucky to even crack the roster, let alone top 4 spot and Markov will never play 3rd pairing. Not sure how much ice Beaulieu will see nor whether Emelin will stay in top 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Obviously you know those pairings aint happening; Tinordi will be very lucky to even crack the roster, let alone top 4 spot and Markov will never play 3rd pairing. Not sure how much ice Beaulieu will see nor whether Emelin will stay in top 4? The point is to keep Markov at 20 minutes per game or less. Last year we wore him out, and he was useless in the playoffs. The only reason Emelin is still on this team is his NTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The point is to keep Markov at 20 minutes per game or less. Last year we wore him out, and he was useless in the playoffs. The only reason Emelin is still on this team is his NTC. Why is your third pairing playing up to 20 minutes? 2014-2015 ES TOI/G (minus Gonchar) Subban: 20:21 Markov: 19:09 Petry: 18:25 Emelin: 17:23 Gilbert: 16:38 Beaulieu: 14:42 First Pairing: 19-20 minutes ES TOI Second Pairing: 17 1/2 - 18 1/2 minutes ES TOI Third Pairing: 14 1/2 - 16 1/2 minutes TOI Markov is too good to be playing 14-16 but the 17-18 is where he should be with Petry. That works perfect for him. That means it's all about finding someone to play between 18-19 minutes of ES with Subban on the LD. That's either Emelin or by giving Beaulieu a significant increase. Markov is going to get his 3 minutes of PP TOI/G since he's by far our best LD defenceman offensively. That's fine. It becomes cutting out his 2:30 SH TOI/G to nothing to cut his minutes down. Shorthanded wears down a player hard. Unfortunately, our big minute cruncher on the back-end was Weaver (2:58 SH TOI/G) followed by Markov. Luckily, Petry is good on the SH so he can put up minutes there for the RD. Him and Emelin will likely make our SH1 for next season. We still expected other D to put in two minutes a game on the SH2 pairing, including Subban and Gilbert. Thankfully in the playoffs, Therrien leaned hardest on Emelin and Subban, followed by Gilbert, Markov and Petry. If we can cut down Markov to 1:30 or less SH TOI/G, he won't wear down as quickly. He might be 36 and had an awful postseason but he's still a 50 point defenceman and our best left handed defenceman. Markov is essential to our success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Why is your third pairing playing up to 20 minutes? it's not. Notice that I said you could frequently double shift him because he's playing light minutes babysitting Pateryn. So he could replace beaulieu or tinordi on a few shifts here and there. Plus he's on both power play and penalty kill special teams. So he's playing a lot more than third line minutes, but a lot less than first line minutes. Markov being fresh for every pp could boost our anemic power play, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 A fresh & tired Markov didn't help in any of last 2 yrs on the PP, but agree if icetime is lessened to 21-20minute range it may help in long run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 A fresh & tired Markov didn't help in any of last 2 yrs on the PP, but agree if icetime is lessened to 21-20minute range it may help in long run? No question. Markov was a complete disaster in the playoffs. He HAS to have his minutes managed; MT cannot cling to his faith in the General any longer and has to accept that the decline is upon us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 However, 50points for a d-man on a team that cant score was awesome regular season. Imagine if he had a couple forwards who could actually bury the puck what his #s would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 However, 50points for a d-man on a team that cant score was awesome regular season. Imagine if he had a couple forwards who could actually bury the puck what his #s would be. I'm not trying to take away from the fact that Markov is a great D-man, but lets see his numbers not paired with P.K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Without Subban, everyone on the teams numbers drop. But he didn't play with him regularly in 13-14 and had 43 points. Markov's defensive abilities are deteriorating, not so much his offensive abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I'm not trying to take away the fact that Markov is a great D-man, but lets see his numbers not paired with P.K I can't find the offensive numbers but if you're into advanced stats, here's a with/without breakdown: http://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?playerid=8467496&sit=all&stype=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 No am not into advanced stats, what do the chicken bones suggest about Markov with/without Subban? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 The real issue is Markov's near-total uselessness in last year's playoff. You can't have your #2/3 D-man suddenly evaporate in the dance and expect to win. Presumably he was so bad because he was exhausted. That's the argument for managing his ice-time over the regular season; leave him something in the tank for when the games matter most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's also possible that we see his age and injury history as the reason and don't consider that he just shat the bed one year and will be fine next year. That's the problem with conclusion jumping. Everyone assumed Markov was a serious injury risk going forward from his 2011 season destroyer but since the lockout he has missed only two games in three regular seasons. I still feel Markov with Subban was a last resort decision because Emelin wasn't healthy or ready enough to play alongside Subban. This season we have options in Beaulieu and to try Emelin again while Markov can play with a dependable, solid Petry on the second pair. Therrien just has to separate them in even strength play. Markov isn't the only veteran logging big minutes in the league. Campbell does it in Florida despite there being young guns like Ekblad and Gudbranson. Beauchemin did it too and will do it again in Colorado. We do need to prepare for the Generals eventual retirement while also realizing he's still capable of elite play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 If Mr. BeeGee was right.. and I guess that he is, we build a team from the goal out. Well, I gotta state the no doubt obvious which is a good adjective no doubt for anything I see in the game, but I sure like that part of our team to pieces, especially since Petry joined us. And I kinda like our front end too as a good work in progress with lots to recommend it. Hey I warned you it was obvious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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