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Pierre Gauthier's trades/signings


dlbalr

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We got Eller who was also a very high draft pick just the year before (1st rounder, 13 OA in 2007)and Schultz (3rd Rnd 87 OA in 2008).

Pietrangelo was a 1st rounder, 4 OA in 2008.

In june 2010, I wonder how far apart were Eller and Pietrangelo. I remember Perron saying that the Habs got a really smart player and their best prospect. Pietrangelo is a stud and definitely untouchable now but back then I like to think we had a shot. And if we did, then the Halak trade is one of the worst in Habs history. The goalie market may have been cold, but Halak's value was super hot following his series against the Caps. And he was presented basically as the cornerstone of the franchise when he signed with the Blues, as their best goalie since Jacques Plante.

This is a stretch. Might have been hot, but still unproven. Antti Niemi won a cup, hell, Michael Leighton got far in the playoffs...

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This is a stretch. Might have been hot, but still unproven. Antti Niemi won a cup, hell, Michael Leighton got far in the playoffs...

I think a lot of people look at the Varlamov trade a year later and wonder why Montreal didn't get more for Halak. There are a few reasons:

1. Trades do not happen in a vacuum. This is not an EA Sports world where every trade by defined numbers as the same value.

2. Varlamov has a better pedigree. You might have heard this before when it came to either trading Price or Halak. Varlamov is 6'2" and is a former first round pick. Halak is 5'11" and a seventh round pick.

3. The trade market at the time was much drier on goalies than it was when Halak was dealt. Halak was the best out of the goalies available at the time but that didn't make him worth a first round pick. He was, however, worth a player drafted in the first round only three years prior.

4. Colorado was desperate for a goalie. St. Louis was simply not patient enough to wait for Ben Bishop.

5. Many goalies have had a hot season/post-season only to burn out the next year. This is why their value is tempered until they prove themselves as a steady starter. There was a question mark on Halak as to whether he performed well in front of a defensive system or if he was simply a great goalie. Varlamov didn't have the defensive system in front of him that Halak did. Halak is a "contributor" to a strong defensive system instead of the backbone of one, which was proven last season in St. Louis.

Also, "The best goalie since Jacques Plante" is ridiculous. Curtis Joseph got nominated for a Vezina in 93.

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Mike Liut and Grant Fuhr were pretty good goalies for the BLues too.

Also lets look at all the Goalie free agent signings in 2010 vs the goalie free agent signings of 2011.

If you look at the numbers, there was a glut of starting goalies and not enough teams in 2010... this depressed value as guys like Martin Biron and Chris Mason went from Starters to backups, Marty Turco took a massive discount, and Evgeni Nabokov couldn't even get a job and signed in Russia.

In 2011 a lot of goalies who people picked as starters fell apart, and the prices went up for guys like Bryzgalov and Niemi on the market. Guys like Craig Anderson suddenly sucking, Mike Smith not living up to expectations, and Marty Turco falling off the face of the earth, and Philly's good goaltending from 2010 blew up in the 2011 playoffs. The goalie market was much hotter one year later.

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I think Halak is an excellent goalie, but looking at his history you have to ask whether he is capable of being an elite goalie for more than 45 games or so per season. Some guys aren't cut out to be Brodeur-style No. 1s and do better in a platoon system, and Halak looks like one of those guys. It's important, then, not to romanticize Halak as some sort of superman. He is inferior to Cujo at this stage of his career, let alone Plante, if only because he is not a true No.1. Now in return, we got a player of uncertain potential but who has a realistic shot at becoming either a very effective 2nd-line C or one of the more versatile 3rd-line C in the game. (Of course, Eller is one of the hardest Habs' young players to figure out IMHO - he could become a 60-point pivot, or he could be out of the league in three years, I have no idea). The idea that you're going to get an all-star young player, in a cap system, for a 45-game goalie with one great playoff to his credit, just strikes me as wishful thinking. We got a reasonable return, why go beyond that and moon over pie in the sky (if I can mix my metaphors).

I like this thread. Fun to talk about actual HOCKEY for a change.

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I like this thread. Fun to talk about actual HOCKEY for a change.

If the lockout drags on much longer, I suspect we'll be having a similar discussion with Gainey's moves as the focal point. Also, if you want actual hockey talk, there is the Bulldogs and prospect discussion...

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I retrieved the Halak trade thread: http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?showtopic=22015

Eller was ranked #2 prospect behind Pietrangelo, my bad. dlbalr also has a good post (#87)

Fun to scroll through that old stuff. :thumbs_up: You have to love the passion aroused by what, at the end of the day, was a move of only middling significance. It makes me want hockey back even more, so the insanity can begin anew! :nuts:

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Fun to scroll through that old stuff. :thumbs_up: You have to love the passion aroused by what, at the end of the day, was a move of only middling significance. It makes me want hockey back even more, so the insanity can begin anew! :nuts:

Middling significance? It was quite a bold ballsy move by Gauthier and it appears he/Gainey were correct in Price being the real deal and i still get a chuckle over blowhard McGuire freakin out when Halek was moved.

You seem to equate Hockey = NHL?

Hockey will do fine without the NHL. NHL is just 1 league of many and super hockey is being played all over. I would prefer to see Sarnia games with Galchenyuk ripping it up, than listen to Gomez being booed off the ice.

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Middling significance? It was quite a bold ballsy move by Gauthier and it appears he/Gainey were correct in Price being the real deal and i still get a chuckle over blowhard McGuire freakin out when Halek was moved.

You seem to equate Hockey = NHL?

Hockey will do fine without the NHL. NHL is just 1 league of many and super hockey is being played all over. I would prefer to see Sarnia games with Galchenyuk ripping it up, than listen to Gomez being booed off the ice.

I mean 'middling' in terms of its pure hockey significance. We traded a surplus No. 1A goalie for a promising forward. A significant trade, but not exactly up there with the Gretzky deal. Yet reading the message board, you'd swear it was a franchise-making or -breaking move.

I realize that the NHL is only the tip of the hockey iceberg, but I haven't watched the Bulldogs because I don't get TVA (and am not willing to pay extra for internet viewing of AHL games); meanwhile, the big networks have singularly failed to provide us with reliable, consistent coverage of any specific junior or AHL teams. (I can't understand why HNIC simply didn't switch its coverage from the NHL to either the Juniors or the AHL. Treat these leagues with all the pomp and importance you accord the NHL. Eventually fans will follow).

As a fan, I want to follow a team, but I need dependable broadcasts of the team's games to be able to do that. If, say, the Bulldogs were consistently shown on RDS, I'd get into that. Maybe I'd follow the Vancouver Giants if they had a really strong broadcasting schedule. As it is, I'm up the creek. I have the same problem following the Seattle Mariners...despite the fact that Vancouver is next door to Seattle, Blue Jays coverage dominates (and I refuse to follow a Toronto team); and the Mariners are not reliably accessible on TV. Makes it really tough to get a strong sense of identification with, and knowledge of, the team.

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I mean 'middling' in terms of its pure hockey significance. We traded a surplus No. 1A goalie for a promising forward. A significant trade, but not exactly up there with the Gretzky deal. Yet reading the message board, you'd swear it was a franchise-making or -breaking move.

I realize that the NHL is only the tip of the hockey iceberg, but I haven't watched the Bulldogs because I don't get TVA (and am not willing to pay extra for internet viewing of AHL games); meanwhile, the big networks have singularly failed to provide us with reliable, consistent coverage of any specific junior or AHL teams. (I can't understand why HNIC simply didn't switch its coverage from the NHL to either the Juniors or the AHL. Treat these leagues with all the pomp and importance you accord the NHL. Eventually fans will follow).

As a fan, I want to follow a team, but I need dependable broadcasts of the team's games to be able to do that. If, say, the Bulldogs were consistently shown on RDS, I'd get into that. Maybe I'd follow the Vancouver Giants if they had a really strong broadcasting schedule. As it is, I'm up the creek. I have the same problem following the Seattle Mariners...despite the fact that Vancouver is next door to Seattle, Blue Jays coverage dominates (and I refuse to follow a Toronto team); and the Mariners are not reliably accessible on TV. Makes it really tough to get a strong sense of identification with, and knowledge of, the team.

Sure, Giants are not a strong team to follow this year, they do have a couple nice players, but will end up with high end picks by easily finishing last this year, and is too bad Toronto media seem to show NCAA crap more so than canadian sports, but betting on NCAA is just so huge that seems to dominate.

But Sportsnet i think is getting OK ratings for CHL/AHL hockey and hope they continue to cover and maybe even show more games, even if NHL comes back.

I have always been a Blue Jay fan, so cant complain but know exactly what u mean.

At least the Shithawks are worth watching this year and if they can just learn how to win on the road, they could really contend.

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I realize that the NHL is only the tip of the hockey iceberg, but I haven't watched the Bulldogs because I don't get TVA (and am not willing to pay extra for internet viewing of AHL games); meanwhile, the big networks have singularly failed to provide us with reliable, consistent coverage of any specific junior or AHL teams. (I can't understand why HNIC simply didn't switch its coverage from the NHL to either the Juniors or the AHL. Treat these leagues with all the pomp and importance you accord the NHL. Eventually fans will follow).

As far as I know, Sportsnet now holds English national rights for the AHL and CHL so CBC/TSN simply can't show the games.

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As far as I know, Sportsnet now holds English national rights for the AHL and CHL so CBC/TSN simply can't show the games.

That explains HNIC and RDS's non-coverage...

The trouble with Sportsnet's approach is that they don't seem to offer reliable, regular coverage of the same team(s). It's just a smattering of this team then that team. I can't get into that.

My ideal scenario would be a 'junior' or AHL version of what HNIC does with the NHL: reliably scheduled weekly game, one 'eastern' game (usually focusing on the Toronto team, sometimes Ottawa or the Habs) and one 'western' game, divided from among the four western clubs. I'd like to see the same thing with the AHL or Junior clubs. Oh, well, maybe when the next lockout rolls around :rolleyes:

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That explains HNIC and RDS's non-coverage...

The trouble with Sportsnet's approach is that they don't seem to offer reliable, regular coverage of the same team(s). It's just a smattering of this team then that team. I can't get into that.

My ideal scenario would be a 'junior' or AHL version of what HNIC does with the NHL: reliably scheduled weekly game, one 'eastern' game (usually focusing on the Toronto team, sometimes Ottawa or the Habs) and one 'western' game, divided from among the four western clubs. I'd like to see the same thing with the AHL or Junior clubs. Oh, well, maybe when the next lockout rolls around :rolleyes:

The smattering is the most fair way to do things though. Focusing on only a few junior teams will anger more junior fans than it pleases. Personally, I actually prefer the assortment, I've tuned into bits and pieces of most of the games to see specific prospects. As for the AHL setup, I wouldn't be surprised to see a more HNIC-styled format if/when the NHL season is cancelled. Abbotsford would be the 10 PM start in the doubleheader while Toronto, Hamilton, or St. John's would be the 7 PM puck drop. If you're looking for a series of Hamilton games being shown, Sportsnet is showing the next 4 Bulldog games after tomorrow's game in Peoria.

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The smattering is the most fair way to do things though. Focusing on only a few junior teams will anger more junior fans than it pleases. Personally, I actually prefer the assortment, I've tuned into bits and pieces of most of the games to see specific prospects. As for the AHL setup, I wouldn't be surprised to see a more HNIC-styled format if/when the NHL season is cancelled. Abbotsford would be the 10 PM start in the doubleheader while Toronto, Hamilton, or St. John's would be the 7 PM puck drop. If you're looking for a series of Hamilton games being shown, Sportsnet is showing the next 4 Bulldog games after tomorrow's game in Peoria.

Thanks for that last bit. Will try to watch.

I understand the appeal of the 'assortment' approach. The thing with me is, I approach sports as a matter of allegiance, not just 'entertainment' in some abstract sense, such that any old hockey game is in principle as compelling as any other hockey game. No, I want to follow 'my team' - that is an intrinsic aspect of the entertainment value for me. This rules out the more 'cosmopolitan' approach that foregoes loyalties in favour of some cool-headed general interest in watching guys move a puck across a screen. But I do realize that many sports fans feel otherwise.

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