Habs qualify Subban, Eller, Nattinen; release White, Czarnik, Delmas

[Lovett's Magnatones]

everyone has their opinion I suppose. i'm 100% certain that fighting will not be banned this year however, so might as well be prepared! and for a young team on the cusp of something special, mb would be foolish not to employ an enforcer.

They're a drain, I think Parros was a minus three in the span of five minutes last year, but there's no question a team isn't going to like being bullied. When Colton Orr tried to take out Plex knees and then Hollywood punched Bourque that was one of the most disgusting displays i've seen in hockey. Small sample sizes, but I don't remember anything like that happening with Parros in the game, and he's a powder puff. Imagine the effect a Patrick Bourdeleau or Ryan Reaches would have?

Especially cowards like the Gooins. Lucic is cowed when the other team has a devastating enforcer. Besides, fights are exciting.

[ICEWATER77]

we need someone that won't ask questions, unlike laroque. "excuse me, mr lucic, mind if we have a go?" gimme a break...should've cut the bum that night!

[habs rule]

Fighting is a dying aspect of the game,I hope, but as long as teams employ them we have to have one in the system somewhere. I would prefer we were the flying frenchmen again, but those days are long gone. And they were a tough bunch of customers themselves. They fought they scored they won.

[KoRP]

And they were a tough bunch of customers themselves. They fought they scored they won.

Yep^ . Habs had some real tough cookies through the years, Ferguson protected the stars long ago, and my personal favorite time were the days of Chris Nilan.

The 70's brought us a roster full of skill and cups, but we were real tough. We had Bouchard, but in reality, nobody wanted a piece of Larry Robinson, and I remember the time the feared Dave Shultz of the Flyers bit off more than he can chew in Guy Lapointe. Wouldn't it be great to have someone with goon quality "go" stuff, and still be a 20 minute player?

We need a new Rocket! He could tear your day apart in a couple different ways....

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Everyone around here talks like Lucic is some awesome force that needs the Incredible Hulk to neutralize. All I know is that he did exactly JACKSH*T in the playoffs against us. Nobody was scared of him at all. The biggest impact he made was in the handshake line. And all of this was accomplished via team mental and physical toughness, not via a goon.

As for Parros, the guy absolutely cannot play hockey, but I think he'd get a lot more respect on this site if he hadn't had the grotesque misfortune of falling on his own face in that fight with Orr. Just bad luck. Say what you want, he is - or was - a bona-fide fighter. With all those concussions, though, he ought to retire now and go count his money on a beach someplace. My guess is that he'll go to another league and keep plugging away, next to be heard of in a few years' time, suffering from brain damage and held up as yet another tragic case.

habs rule, you're spot-on - the Flying Frenchmen were anything but creampuffs, contrary to myth. The Richard teams were tough as a boot sandwich (led by the Rocket himself, who could take on all comers), the 1960s teams had Ferguson, one of the all-time tough guys, and the 1970s dynasty only assumed its place of supremacy after physically kicking the crap out of the Broad Street Bullies early in the 1976 season. Larry Robinson alone was one of the most intimidating presences in the game.

I think a goon probably would help today's Habs "feel taller," but the kind of toughness that's really valuable is exemplified by players like Emelin and Subban, who intimidate with their ability to destroy you with punishing hits, and who also have the wherewithal to absorb or evade the best punishment the other teams can dole out.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Everyone around here talks like Lucic is some awesome force that needs the Incredible Hulk to neutralize. All I know is that he did exactly JACKSH*T in the playoffs against us. Nobody was scared of him at all. The biggest impact he made was in the handshake line. And all of this was accomplished via team mental and physical toughness, not via a goon.

As for Parros, the guy absolutely cannot play hockey, but I think he'd get a lot more respect on this site if he hadn't had the grotesque misfortune of falling on his own face in that fight with Orr. Just bad luck. Say what you want, he is - or was - a bona-fide fighter. With all those concussions, though, he ought to retire now and go count his money on a beach someplace. My guess is that he'll go to another league and keep plugging away, next to be heard of in a few years' time, suffering from brain damage and held up as yet another tragic case.

habs rule, you're spot-on - the Flying Frenchmen were anything but creampuffs, contrary to myth. The Richard teams were tough as a boot sandwich (led by the Rocket himself, who could take on all comers), the 1960s teams had Ferguson, one of the all-time tough guys, and the 1970s dynasty only assumed its place of supremacy after physically kicking the crap out of the Broad Street Bullies early in the 1976 season. Larry Robinson alone was one of the most intimidating presences in the game.

I think a goon probably would help today's Habs "feel taller," but the kind of toughness that's really valuable is exemplified by players like Emelin and Subban, who intimidate with their ability to destroy you with punishing hits, and who also have the wherewithal to absorb or evade the best punishment the other teams can dole out.

The Emelin/Lucic interaction has been impressive. To me, there seems to be an element of Kasparaitis/Lindros there. He's had his knee blown out, he's been boarded at least three times, he's been stabbed in the balls then threatened and he's not intimidated. Now that he's back on his side, the big hits are going to fly. If Subban/Emelin are a pairing, how does one carry the puck over the blueline?

Unlike Brooks Orprick, he's actually fought a few times, with very limited results. Imagine if Orpik had a plate in his face? He would have a bubble wrapped helmet.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Once upon a time I'd be talking up how amazing it'd be to nab Brooks Laich out of Washington. Seems like injuries has destroyed him now.

[ICEWATER77]

Yep^ . Habs had some real tough cookies through the years, Ferguson protected the stars long ago, and my personal favorite time were the days of Chris Nilan.

The 70's brought us a roster full of skill and cups, but we were real tough. We had Bouchard, but in reality, nobody wanted a piece of Larry Robinson, and I remember the time the feared Dave Shultz of the Flyers bit off more than he can chew in Guy Lapointe. Wouldn't it be great to have someone with goon quality "go" stuff, and still be a 20 minute player?

We need a new Rocket! He could tear your day apart in a couple different ways....

[/qu

chris nilan? yes please!! now there was one tough s.o.b! and could he play hockey? yes absolutely..he rode shotgun for guy carboneau on the premier shutdown line in the league for years! chris neil may be the new chris nilan..i'd welcome him anyday

[DON]

Hope Chris Neil dosent develop Alcohol/Drug habit.

Which seems an all too common outcome of Goons after hockey.

But, they sure can chuck knuckles maybe 20 times (or maybe 20minutes) year.

But, hey everyone loves a Kordic/Probert, on their team eh, unskilled thugs are invaluable.

Who does the intimidation in NFL, Rugby, Aussi rules football? No one, but must be a pussy sport eh, with lots of cheapshots eh?

No dosent happen, WHY, because is not in the rules of game and results in instant ejection/suspension/fine.

Does it make those sports less popular, physical or "MANLY"? Or just more evolved sports maybe? NFL is more evolved and sane than NHL, who would of thought it to be so, what with all those steroid junkies?

Frickin goons on LA KIngs and Blackhawks really make a difference to winning cups eh?

[habs rule]

Probert was a throwback. He had 384 points in 984 games. He could play hockey and fight. He played a regular shift. Kordic not so much. You make a good point that sports do evolve in different ways. The other sports you mention have never had fighting in them so nothing to stamp out. ON the other hand what about baseball and basketball? Some of the widest brawls ever in baseball. I agree that getting rid of fighting would be a good thing but there seems to be no appetite for it at this point, the NHL still believes that it generates interest and therefore dollars. There have been and still are fights in the NFL usually when someone believes that player A tried to deliberately hurt his team mate. Most baseball brawls start because the pitcher throws at a batters head. There is a correlation there Don if you think about it.

[DON]

And when a fight happens in MLB-NBA-NCAAsports-Soccer or any (non-combat) organized sport in the world, they get just a 5minute 'timeout' for bad behaviour?

Not a chance in hell, there are instant ejections/fines/suspensions/team fines/coaches fines etc etc.

Of the 4,860 MLB games every year how many fights happen, handful maybe? NBA fights #, likely bout 20-30 at most? And is it or cheapshots, throwing at head with pitch tolerated, not a chance?

Simply is no comparison or excuse, Fighting is immature and childish temper-tantrum like, would you encourage your 12 year old, or teenager to attack another player, to 'juice' up a game or change momentum?

(come on, get out there and and kick em in the nuts, straight arm em, punch em in the face)

There is no credible argument for fighting to be allowed. Aint got a leg to stand on and is laughable the proponents reasoning for it.

When it is severely penalized everywhere but on ice surface and is criminal to happen in general public, for a reason.

I can cut any Goon proponent to pieces and not because I am bright, just right. and is easy to do, because is common sense.

Oh and how did Probert end up? Would you attribute it to the fact he had some hockey skills?

And have you seen the Heroin/Alcohol addict, who used to wear #30 for the Habs? Creepy and very sad to remember him in his prime and see what a shell of a person (physically) he is now, he looks closer to 86 years old than 56.

[BCHabnut]

Hope Chris Neil dosent develop Alcohol/Drug habit.

Which seems an all too common outcome of Goons after hockey.

But, they sure can chuck knuckles maybe 20 times (or maybe 20minutes) year.

But, hey everyone loves a Kordic/Probert, on their team eh, unskilled thugs are invaluable.

Who does the intimidation in NFL, Rugby, Aussi rules football? No one, but must be a pussy sport eh, with lots of cheapshots eh?

No dosent happen, WHY, because is not in the rules of game and results in instant ejection/suspension/fine.

Does it make those sports less popular, physical or "MANLY"? Or just more evolved sports maybe? NFL is more evolved and sane than NHL, who would of thought it to be so, what with all those steroid junkies?

Frickin goons on LA KIngs and Blackhawks really make a difference to winning cups eh?

Officiating is my biggest problem with the game. Since the two ref system and the rule changes, the game is very inconsistent. Until the playoffs. Then it is consistently poor. They call nothing. The game has a specific set of rules which don't matter in the last 10 minutes of the game, in the playoffs, in overtime. It just cheapens the game and destroys its credibility to me. Can you imagine a ref not calling an offesive foul during the superbowl because "he didn't want to decide the game?# He didn't decide the game. The guy who committed the foul did. So now we cling to the old times when players stuck up for each other because of unoficiated cheap shots, and they fought. Those guys that fought in the 70s 80s 90s were chumps compared to the trained, fit, fighting machines in the league now. I guarantee boogard or parros or laraque would have destroyed every old time hockey fighter in the league back then. They were lumoxes wrestling around and getting a few shots in. It would all just go away if the damn game was officiated correctly. By the way... I enjoy watching a hockey fight. I just don't get where it fits into the game anymore.

[DON]

Sorry to say I used to instigate my fair share, but you get older and (hopefully) wiser, more likely just less testosterone and tolerance for 'foolishness' and sideshow BS.

But anyways, as someone said Owners aint changing this year, so who will Bergevin choose to be this years's Parros?

Even if Konopka is under suspension, he seems to be a good fit as a 2nd 4th line centre to have Malhotra sit vs 'Scary' teams like Bruins/Leafs.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

[quote name="DON" post="506645" time

Oh and how did Probert end up? Would you attribute it to the fact he had some hockey skills?

And have you seen the Heroin/Alcohol addict, who used to wear #30 for the Habs? Creepy and very sad to remember him in his prime and see what a shell of a person (physically) he is now, he looks closer to 86 years old than 56.

Nilan had twenty six surgeries. With that many, substance abuse is a serious problem.

I agree with many of your points. Living in the Southern US, a few people have asked me why fighting is allowed and my only answer is "it always has been."

I do think that attendance would suffer at the minor league level without fighting.

[dlbalr]

Even if Konopka is under suspension, he seems to be a good fit as a 2nd 4th line centre to have Malhotra sit vs 'Scary' teams like Bruins/Leafs.

The problem is that for the first 20 games, you have to run with essentially a 22-man roster. If a player is suspended, they still count against the regular max of 23.

[Guest Stogey24]

Sorry to say I used to instigate my fair share, but you get older and (hopefully) wiser, more likely just less testosterone and tolerance for 'foolishness' and sideshow BS.

But anyways, as someone said Owners aint changing this year, so who will Bergevin choose to be this years's Parros?

Even if Konopka is under suspension, he seems to be a good fit as a 2nd 4th line centre to have Malhotra sit vs 'Scary' teams like Bruins/Leafs.

Konopka is old and ain't even big. Prust filled him in last year. He's not scaring anyone

[habs rule]

And when a fight happens in MLB-NBA-NCAAsports-Soccer or any (non-combat) organized sport in the world, they get just a 5minute 'timeout' for bad behaviour?

Not a chance in hell, there are instant ejections/fines/suspensions/team fines/coaches fines etc etc.

Of the 4,860 MLB games every year how many fights happen, handful maybe? NBA fights #, likely bout 20-30 at most? And is it or cheapshots, throwing at head with pitch tolerated, not a chance?

Simply is no comparison or excuse, Fighting is immature and childish temper-tantrum like, would you encourage your 12 year old, or teenager to attack another player, to 'juice' up a game or change momentum?

(come on, get out there and and kick em in the nuts, straight arm em, punch em in the face)

There is no credible argument for fighting to be allowed. Aint got a leg to stand on and is laughable the proponents reasoning for it.

When it is severely penalized everywhere but on ice surface and is criminal to happen in general public, for a reason.

I can cut any Goon proponent to pieces and not because I am bright, just right. and is easy to do, because is common sense.

Oh and how did Probert end up? Would you attribute it to the fact he had some hockey skills?

And have you seen the Heroin/Alcohol addict, who used to wear #30 for the Habs? Creepy and very sad to remember him in his prime and see what a shell of a person (physically) he is now, he looks closer to 86 years old than 56.

jeez Don ya gotta watch that high blood pressure. You are indiscriminately shooting the messenger. The problem is not the fans. It is the nhl itself. they believe there is money in it so they won't change it. If there was no fighting ( I think there always be instances of fighting no matter what you do) the fans would get over it after a short period of adjustment.

I mean you make the point, in spite of the ejections etc there still fights in baseball and basketball.

[DON]

Yes agree, is owners who much of what is allowed and dictate officiating, agree will always be fighting in hockey.

Sort of like the DH in baseball, I don't agree is needed at all, does little to add to sport and is unnecessary.

S Konopka wont fit or poor choice, who else is there who has at least one good skill (can hit or PK a bit), is a respected heavyweight and still available?

[KoRP]

There is no credible argument for fighting to be allowed. Aint got a leg to stand on and is laughable the proponents reasoning for it.

When it is severely penalized everywhere but on ice surface and is criminal to happen in general public, for a reason.

I can cut any Goon proponent to pieces and not because I am bright, just right. and is easy to do, because is common sense.

Oh and how did Probert end up? Would you attribute it to the fact he had some hockey skills?

I am not saying that fighting should be allowed, but like Habs rule said, it's the NHL's decision and responsibility, not the fans and players.

Saying it is not permitted in other sports is just that, a fact that other sports permit no fighting, nothing to do with the NHL.

Baseball is too laid back and slow paced to cause spontaneous fights, unless a pitcher throws at a batter's head. NFL plays 10 seconds at a time, then a rest before the next play.

In hockey, it's the speed and adrenalized state the players are in, that leads to spontaneous fights.

I'm not allowed to fight in public, but catch me adrenalized, and do me physical wrong or harm, and I react, I fight, and worry about consequences later, because in that moment there is no comprehension skills to wade through, it's just a basic survival instinct to protect one's self.

Take that away from a human? How and to what end? The end of us, that's what, at least most individuals.

Like it or not Don, that's the way it is, just like the bad guys still have guns in society, there is still fighting and violence all around us in life, so if you chose to bury your head in the sand, and wish it away, doesn't give you much chance for survival in the real world.

1. There is a credible argument to fight as a player, other players will do as they like if you don't protect against it, c'mon Don, you know this. So the threat of a cheap shot career ending injury, on purpose, by a thug, is why teams need a guy that can and will scrap and take up for team mates, as things stand.

2. NHL is the entity that needs to ban fighting, and they haven't, so teams need to keep factoring this fact in to line up considerations.

3. Probert chose his career, therefore accepted the risks, and certainly utilized his pay cheques, obviously on Cocaine and alcohol, shit even a carpenter can decide to work on dangerous projects, and do what he wants for his money, nothing to do with his bosses utilization of his talents.

Having said all that, if I had to vote one way or the other, I would vote to ban fighting in the NHL, but would still enjoy the odd spontaneous scrap betweens players, hockey players, not staged fights between unskilled hockey players/goons only.

The older I get, the less I like hockey fights....

[DON]

Spontaneous fights will happen, not issue, Goon position on roster is.

Yes, with officiating as is, fighting (Goon is necessary evil) is part of sport.

Agree.

Yes, just 'seems' so many enforcers end up badly and no one is forcing Goons to do what they do, but huge $ compared to being a bouncer or the like, is hard to turn down.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Yes agree, is owners who much of what is allowed and dictate officiating, agree will always be fighting in hockey.

Sort of like the DH in baseball, I don't agree is needed at all, does little to add to sport and is unnecessary.

S Konopka wont fit or poor choice, who else is there who has at least one good skill (can hit or PK a bit), is a respected heavyweight and still available?

Probably Carcillo. I don't think he's a heavyweight, but he's the only guy left who can pass for a hockey player. Staubitz would probably take a two way. Sheldon Brookbank is available, but Habsnation will have a heart attack if they sign a fighter who plays defense. Jordin Tootoo is available.

For the supergoons Kassian, Rupp, Bissonette, Westgarth, Barch, Asham all need homes.

Another guy who can be had on a two way is Nicholas Blanchard. That might be the direction they go in. Hamilton needs some muscle. A soft terrible team will have awful attendance.

[dlbalr]

Another guy who can be had on a two way is Nicholas Blanchard. That might be the direction they go in. Hamilton needs some muscle. A soft terrible team will have awful attendance.

I think Blanchard could be an option but the Bulldogs probably don't need any other tough guys. They have Nevins and Crisp as tough rookies and Fournier may be on the team as well up front. On defence, they have Finley while the likes of Thrower, Shea and Dietz (whichever of those make the team) that can also fight. Hamilton has many team needs. Fighting/muscle probably isn't one of them.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I think Blanchard could be an option but the Bulldogs probably don't need any other tough guys. They have Nevins and Crisp as tough rookies and Fournier may be on the team as well up front. On defence, they have Finley while the likes of Thrower, Shea and Dietz (whichever of those make the team) that can also fight. Hamilton has many team needs. Fighting/muscle probably isn't one of them.

Forgot about those guys, I was thinking of Stortini/Tarnasky leaving. Do you think Nevins will make the team outright, or spend some time in Wheeling?

[ICEWATER77]

any chance finley gets moved up as a part time 4th line winger?

[dlbalr]

Forgot about those guys, I was thinking of Stortini/Tarnasky leaving. Do you think Nevins will make the team outright, or spend some time in Wheeling?

Stortini was gone all of last year too (thank goodness). Barring no further depth being added, I think Nevins makes the team. My preference is that he'd start in Wheeling so that he can work a bit on his all-around game rather than just becoming a six minute a game player right off the hop.

any chance finley gets moved up as a part time 4th line winger?

Pray it doesn't come to that. He'd have to sign an NHL contract first and even then, they'd probably have to go through their tough guy forwards in Hamilton first.