Proposed 2014-2015 Lineup

[dlbalr]

Very true. Everyone forgets Eller is the most physical centre we have too. Why the hate boys?! He's young, big, doesn't bitch about being tossed around the lineup, and will probably resign for 2-3 years at a cheap price.

Here's hoping that it's not a 2 or 3 year deal. Either go one year or 4+. Otherwise, he goes straight into free agency or you buy out just the one year of UFA. The term will really dictate his cost...if it's one, it'll be around the low 2's. If it's 4+, I'd hazard a guess that Desharnais money will be sought.

[Guest Stogey24]

Here's hoping that it's not a 2 or 3 year deal. Either go one year or 4+. Otherwise, he goes straight into free agency or you buy out just the one year of UFA. The term will really dictate his cost...if it's one, it'll be around the low 2's. If it's 4+, I'd hazard a guess that Desharnais money will be sought.

Hmmm. I'd say one year then???

[dlbalr]

Hmmm. I'd say one year then???

I wouldn't be too shocked if they went one year with Eller. There aren't many contracts expiring next offseason (the roster as it currently stands is primarily one that will be in place in 2015-16 as well) so they may prefer to go short-term with him to give them more options when it comes to extending Gallagher/Galchenyuk (I suspect they'll push a bridge with both as things currently stand).

[hab29RETIRED]

I wouldn't be too shocked if they went one year with Eller. There aren't many contracts expiring next offseason (the roster as it currently stands is primarily one that will be in place in 2015-16 as well) so they may prefer to go short-term with him to give them more options when it comes to extending Gallagher/Galchenyuk (I suspect they'll push a bridge with both as things currently stand).

IMO, i'd try and sign him for a 5 or 6 year deal. If they can do that at DD type money, that contract will be a bargain in probably even its second year.

[dlbalr]

IMO, i'd try and sign him for a 5 or 6 year deal. If they can do that at DD type money, that contract will be a bargain in probably even its second year.

It would cost more than $3.5 M to get Eller signed for 5+ years. Each year you add, the money is going up quickly as you're buying out UFA years.

[hab29RETIRED]

It would cost more than $3.5 M to get Eller signed for 5+ years. Each year you add, the money is going up quickly as you're buying out UFA years.

I think if Eller gets a real chance with non-crappy line mates (Prust/Bourque/Moen) and some PP time, he will be looking for $4M in his next contract.

He gets a lot of flack, but lets face it DD sucked for the 1st quarter last year and than got to play with our top two wingers. Ellers on the other hand played with guys with hands of stone or guys who are just crap (Bourque) for the bulk of the season. He's far more physical than DD (or Pleks), has better face-off stats than DD and Pleks, also was put into a shutdown type role versus the bruins in the playoffs.

I really think we need to move Pleks to make room for Eller and use Pleks as the piece to get another scoring winger. If we get another winger who can score, we can go in with DD and Eller as our top two centreman and ease Galchenyuk into a centre position as well against weaker competition. With Pleks in the lineup, Galchenyuk is not going to get a real chance.

[BlueKross]

It would cost more than $3.5 M to get Eller signed for 5+ years. Each year you add, the money is going up quickly as you're buying out UFA years.

I think Eller is on the upswing and that will look good so I would have to agree with H29. They played it safe with Subban and they will be paying for it this year. Will they stick to form? We will see.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

"Line numbers" are not terribly relevant on this team, which is built to roll three lines (notwithstanding the explosion of the Patches-DD-Vanek line as a suddenly clear-cut #1 line). The fact is, Pleks is our shutdown C, not Eller. Pleks is also our second scoring C after Desharnais, not Eller. Eller is not a "third-line C" in the traditional sense of a Guy Carbonneau; he is more like a third-string C, trusted neither to shut down the opposition nor to fuel offence.

People are excited by his excellent playoff. I get it. What I also get is that three strong weeks does not a good player make. If it did, Richard Zednik would have become a superstar.

DON, it's not so much about "not being disappointed." It's about refusing to confuse potential with reality. Anyone arguing that Eller has promise is totally right in my book. Anyone arguing that he already IS the player he has the potential to be is simply kidding themselves. The player he was last season was dismayingly mediocre except for those two brief bookends (start and finish). Only a fool would confuse the exception - his brief good phases - with the rule, which has mostly been borderline suckage.

Lars Eller is a nice piece. He's a big body who can chip in 35-45 points. He'll have his moments, and his playoff play is very encouraging. My guess is that his problems are between his ears, his play has been at it's best at the start and finish of seasons and he might have problems with the long schedule. Who knows? For all we know, he has seasonal affective disorder and can't handle the Montreal winters.

His ceiling is a 20 goal, fifty point guy, a second line center, and I cant see him evolving into much more than that, given his age and how long he's been in the league.

[dlbalr]

I think Eller is on the upswing and that will look good so I would have to agree with H29. They played it safe with Subban and they will be paying for it this year. Will they stick to form? We will see.

If it goes to arbitration with Eller, he won't have much of a leg to stand on given his poor regular season. His playoff effort would be cancelled out by his bad numbers during the year.

It will be interesting to see is how much the Habs pursue a long-term deal with Eller as that will be the indicator as to where they feel he is development-wise. If they offer a 4+ year deal (where the salary at the end will be in the high $3M to low $4M range), that will suggest that they feel he can assume a larger role at some point (and likely trigger a roster move to afford him that shot in the next year or two). If things are really quiet between now and the hearing - implying they're not talking long-term - it will be a sign that they're not convinced he can take that next step and be more than a 2nd/3rd line 'tweener' (meaning that there probably wouldn't be a move to clear out a C this offseason). Clearly on here, there's a mix of people in both corners. Will that be the case with the higher-ups in the organization?

Also, welcome aboard to the two new posters in this thread.

[Meller93]

It not like Eller sucked, other than scoresheet, which is easy to argue that he wasn't put in a position nor given linemates to excel in that dept.

I cherry picked some stats for comparison;

Plekanec=44 hits, 1700faceoffs, 48.0%, 37 giveaways, 1:56PP, 2:57PK, 45blocked shots

DD= 23hits, 1200faceoffs, 50.3%, 22giveaways, 2:41PP, 0:07PK, 35blocked shots

Larry= 130hits, 1000faceoffs, 53.2%, 25giveaways, 1:06PP, 1:24PK, 58 blocked shots

I like this post, because I must admit I'm a big Eller supporter. I was majorly disappointed in his last season, because I honestly hoped for ~50 points from him. Obviously he never did that, but I never found myself cursing Eller for bad play. I really thought he played pretty solidly. As much as some of you deny it, there is merit to who is playing on your line. I'm not saying Eller is ALREADY good. I admit it's all about his potential, but I think Eller's stats would have looked much more impressive if Bourque was playoff-esqe all season. I still believe in his second line Center potential.

[Meller93]

They cherry-picked stats to make Andrei Kostitsyn look like a stud as well.

If Eller didn't "suck" from November to April, he was pretty damned mediocre. We're talking about a player who will make, what, $2 mil? And will be worth no more than that. Yet people are acting like we should ship out Pleks and rely on him.

Stop making excuses for poor old Lars and demand that he actually step up and deliver the consistent, impactful game that he is capable of delivering. Period.

It would be a mistake to rely on Lars right now, and he struggled mightily to put up points from November to April, but saying he sucked would be harsh IMO. Mediocre, yea sure. Because while his points sucked I thought he played a smart, physical game. He just couldn't finish.

I really think this year will be a telling year. If we don't see a solid improvement, the excuse will start to get old

[bigbigbear]

DON, on 05 Jul 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

It not like Eller sucked, other than scoresheet, which is easy to argue that he wasn't put in a position nor given linemates to excel in that dept.

I cherry picked some stats for comparison;

Plekanec=44 hits, 1700faceoffs, 48.0%, 37 giveaways, 1:56PP, 2:57PK, 45blocked shots
DD= 23hits, 1200faceoffs, 50.3%, 22giveaways, 2:41PP, 0:07PK, 35blocked shots
Larry= 130hits, 1000faceoffs, 53.2%, 25giveaways, 1:06PP, 1:24PK, 58 blocked shots

Funny how Bergevin said we are rebuilding, yet Eller is part of this rebuild. The HABS needed to get bigger and they are doing so. BIG means being fast and being able to hit.

Eller's hits compared to PleK is the main reason why he's a keeper for the future, as well as being on the PK. He knows how to block shots and can score shorthanded goals.

PLEK has got to go for Eller to have better wingers and have more PP time.

How many times did we see last year, Eller was the only player on his line playing the body. Crystal Bourque got it going only in the playoffs.

While Plek's value is high, I'd package trade him for a big winger. (Tokarski, and one of the expendable Hamilton D)

[Meller93]

DON, on 05 Jul 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Funny how Bergevin said we are rebuilding, yet Eller is part of this rebuild. The HABS needed to get bigger and they are doing so. BIG means being fast and being able to hit.

Eller's hits compared to PleK is the main reason why he's a keeper for the future, as well as being on the PK. He knows how to block shots and can score shorthanded goals.

PLEK has got to go for Eller to have better wingers and have more PP time.

How many times did we see last year, Eller was the only player on his line playing the body. Crystal Bourque got it going only in the playoffs.

While Plek's value is high, I'd package trade him for a big winger. (Tokarski, and one of the expendable Hamilton D)

If plex were to be traded I seriously think we would have to get a star 2-way forward in return. This would mean plex, tokarski, a second AND one of bealieu Tinordi. We've already lost Gio. We can't afford to lose our best defensive forward as well. I'm not sure that player even exists.

[Meller93]

Edit: this would be for a younger player wih many years left. A Plekanec aged rw would be cheaper

[JCPetit]

I think if Eller gets a real chance with non-crappy line mates (Prust/Bourque/Moen) and some PP time, he will be looking for $4M in his next contract.

He gets a lot of flack, but lets face it DD sucked for the 1st quarter last year and than got to play with our top two wingers. Ellers on the other hand played with guys with hands of stone or guys who are just crap (Bourque) for the bulk of the season. He's far more physical than DD (or Pleks), has better face-off stats than DD and Pleks, also was put into a shutdown type role versus the bruins in the playoffs.

I really think we need to move Pleks to make room for Eller and use Pleks as the piece to get another scoring winger. If we get another winger who can score, we can go in with DD and Eller as our top two centreman and ease Galchenyuk into a centre position as well against weaker competition. With Pleks in the lineup, Galchenyuk is not going to get a real chance.

I am in total agreement with you. Plekanec has excellent value and moving him makes a lot of sense. I hope Bergevin will do it.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

I don't see why we can't keep both on opening night but start using Eller on a scoring line at 2C and use plex the way he should of been used since he started in this league, 3rd line checking line center with scoring upside. Able to shut down the other teams top guys and be our #1 pk guy

Patch DD Paranteau

Galchenyuk Eller Gallagher

Bourque Plex Bournival/Sekac/DeLaRose

Prust Malholtra Weise

[bigbigbear]

If plex were to be traded I seriously think we would have to get a star 2-way forward in return. This would mean plex, tokarski, a second AND one of bealieu Tinordi. We've already lost Gio. We can't afford to lose our best defensive forward as well. I'm not sure that player even exists.

Hard to say whay D would be included in a deal, it would depend on the winger. I wouldn't want another Ryan McDonagh-Gomez scenario happening again.lol

Tinner could become a shutdown physical dman and Beaulieu, he can rush with the puck.

[Neech]

Why are we still arguing about Eller? Can't we all agree that he has to get better or he's not good enough?

[JCPetit]

Lars Eller is a nice piece. He's a big body who can chip in 35-45 points. He'll have his moments, and his playoff play is very encouraging. My guess is that his problems are between his ears, his play has been at it's best at the start and finish of seasons and he might have problems with the long schedule. Who knows? For all we know, he has seasonal affective disorder and can't handle the Montreal winters.

His ceiling is a 20 goal, fifty point guy, a second line center, and I cant see him evolving into much more than that, given his age and how long he's been in the league.

I am a big believer in Eller. I believe that he will become a very competent 3rd line centre. Let's sign him and trade Plex for a good winger.

[Habsfan]

"As he has in the past?" Lars Eller has never delivered over a complete season. Yes, he managed 30 points in the lockout shortened 48 game season. Sadly, that's the best total of 4 year NHL career.

As I said, if he gets 40 points this year, he can earn himself a place on the team -- but he can't STAY at 40 points. We need to see constant improvement. If he's not hitting 50+ every season, he's not what we need.

Galchenyuk has the potential to be a 90+ point guy, if we start using him where he's best. This is what we're holding back by keeping 25 points-a-year Lars Eller at Center.

I have to say, I agree with Jeff. I like Eller, but if he is slowing down Chucky, then get out of the way Lars. We need to get chucky playing his NATURAL position as soon as possible.

My line-up for 14-15 would look like this...

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Parenteau

Eller - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Bourque/Bournival - Plekanec - Sekac

Prust - Malhotra - Weise

Emelin - Subban

Markov - Gilbert

Tinordi/Beaulieu - Weaver

Price

Budaj

I'd start Bourque on the third line, but if he decides to not show up on most nights, then I'd replace him with Bournival. ON defense I'd start with Tinordi and see how that goes. If he struggles, then I'd put Beaulieu in.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

i want us to have a number 1 pair on the defence period.

markov subban

they played fantastic together and at one point were arguably the best tandem in hockey. sure they had a few hiccups at a stage in the season where the whole team was slacking but these 2 together over an 82 game schedule would be fantastic. now with the re structured D core this will be possible.

emelin gilbert

similar foot speed, both have a decent first pass that they can now take on there forehand while heading up the ice. emelin will be back to throwing the body with his knee problems mentally behind him(hopefully) in year 2 post OP. gilbert has 2 years and something to prove on a winning team for once......

tinordi weaver

eat up big minutes on the PK to keep marky and subban fresh for 5on5. and play major defensive roles for the team.

special teams

subban R, gilbert R 1 PP*** my thoughts here are to constantly have one defender ready for a cross body one timer. Leaving Marky on his left side to QB and sneak in off the point without constantly switching sides with PK so he can get his one timer off!

markyL emelinL 2 PP***

weaver tinman 1PK

markov emelin 2 PK

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Why are we still arguing about Eller? Can't we all agree that he has to get better or he's not good enough?

Good post. It seems obvious to me. Minimal points, -15, invisible for most of the season. On what planet is that "good enough?"

I like this discussion; lots of different views have come out. Just to be totally clear, I am NOT anti-Eller and I am not denying his potential. In fact, if pressed I would say there is probably about a 60-70% chance of his becoming the player we want him to become. My point is that he is nowhere near that yet, based on the 2013-14 season. And the notion that it's Therrien's fault, or Bourque's fault, is just more of the same excuse-making that people perpetually throw at favoured young players - most of whom have failed to pan out.

Let's see Eller do what he did in the playoffs for an extended stretch of time, please. Take the initiative, take charge. Use his linemates intelligently. Carry the puck with confidence, drive the rush. Read the play. Get involved.

My fear with him is that he is fundamentally a passenger: cheerful, aw-shucks, just-happy-to-be-here Lars, always assuming that other players are going to be leading the charge and that he can mill around in the bottom six being good enough to keep a spot. In essence, a happier-seeming version of Bourque.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

This is going to be his sink or swim season regardless. He isn't as awful as say Del Zotto but he's now 25. That's the "no excuse" year for most players. He'll find himself off the Habs and becoming a journeyman like Benoit Pouliot was for years if he doesn't put together a consistent season.

Putting together a consistent season means there's no more excuses on his linemates. No excuses on his minutes unless they average under 10 a game. No excuses on lack of powerplay time. Night in and night out, Eller has to play consistent hockey and push Therrien to play his line against top competition on the road. If he isn't helping put the puck in the net he better be a presence otherwise.

I would rather see Galchenyuk struggle the whole season at center than see Lars Eller do "moderately well" at center. I want Eller to be pushing either DD (who at $3.5M is a huge commodity for the team) or Plekanec right out of the lineup because he does their job better. Otherwise we should move him for a need.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This is going to be his sink or swim season regardless. He isn't as awful as say Del Zotto but he's now 25. That's the "no excuse" year for most players. He'll find himself off the Habs and becoming a journeyman like Benoit Pouliot was for years if he doesn't put together a consistent season.

Putting together a consistent season means there's no more excuses on his linemates. No excuses on his minutes unless they average under 10 a game. No excuses on lack of powerplay time. Night in and night out, Eller has to play consistent hockey and push Therrien to play his line against top competition on the road. If he isn't helping put the puck in the net he better be a presence otherwise.

I would rather see Galchenyuk struggle the whole season at center than see Lars Eller do "moderately well" at center. I want Eller to be pushing either DD (who at $3.5M is a huge commodity for the team) or Plekanec right out of the lineup because he does their job better. Otherwise we should move him for a need.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

This is going to be his sink or swim season regardless. He isn't as awful as say Del Zotto but he's now 25. That's the "no excuse" year for most players. He'll find himself off the Habs and becoming a journeyman like Benoit Pouliot was for years if he doesn't put together a consistent season.

Putting together a consistent season means there's no more excuses on his linemates. No excuses on his minutes unless they average under 10 a game. No excuses on lack of powerplay time. Night in and night out, Eller has to play consistent hockey and push Therrien to play his line against top competition on the road. If he isn't helping put the puck in the net he better be a presence otherwise.

I would rather see Galchenyuk struggle the whole season at center than see Lars Eller do "moderately well" at center. I want Eller to be pushing either DD (who at $3.5M is a huge commodity for the team) or Plekanec right out of the lineup because he does their job better. Otherwise we should move him for a need.

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