REV-G Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 As we once again see the Maple Leafs packing up another 18 wheeler, ready to send it for it's annual leap off the cliff, I find it funny to listen to and read what the Toronto media says about Phil Kessel. They talk about him being one of the elite players in the NHL and one of the top snipers. If we compare Max Pacioretty and Phil Kessel I would take Pacioretty any day of the week. Pacioretty doesn't get nearly the coverage and discussion that Kessel does, but when you compare them I think Pacioretty comes out ahead. Kessel has 19 goals, 24 assists for 43 points and is minus 9. Pacioretty has 21 goals, 15 assists for 36 points and is plus 21. Pacioretty is a very good two way player, works hard and always stays in great shape. Kessel is known as a one dimentional player, who shows up for two weeks and then takes some time off for a few weeks. The nickname for many in Toronto for Kessel is "the fat kid". A Toronto media person asked Kessel a while back if he was someone who felt he should up and speak to the team and try to get guys going or if he felt he should be an example to the younger guys. His answer was, they pay me to score goals not do that other stuff. He shrugged it off and waked away. I hear Pacioretty talk of how the culture in Montreal's room is that they help each other and push one another to be better. To build a team around character guys like Pacioretty is the plan that MB has talked about many times. To build a team around a guy who seems to just have his own goals as his main priority probably will give you what you see in the Maple Leafs year after year. We went through some tough years but with the character guys that we have the standard has been set by both management and also our core and younger players. That's the way to build a team for the present and future. In my humble opinion, the only way for Toronto to make progress and end their 47 year drought is to change their core and get some guys who have character and a work ethic. Guys like Pacioretty. It may take a few years but to continue in the direction they're going is to ask for more 18 wheelers to get ready for another cliff dive. What do you think about Kessel vs. Pacioretty?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I would take Pacioretty. Kessel is the better offensive player and he can strike at the drop of the hat. Kessel, however, lacks leadership and defensive skills. I can't imagine Kessel working on his defensive game or playing the penalty kill. Kessel gets a bad rap. Like Ovechkin and the Capitals, the Leafs need Kessel to be something he's not, and he puts up with a fair share of grief for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I would take Pacioretty. Kessel is the better offensive player and he can strike at the drop of the hat. Kessel, however, lacks leadership and defensive skills. I can't imagine Kessel working on his defensive game or playing the penalty kill. Kessel gets a bad rap. Like Ovechkin and the Capitals, the Leafs need Kessel to be something he's not, and he puts up with a fair share of grief for it. i would rather have Pax. Did not even have to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I would take Pacioretty. Kessel is the better offensive player and he can strike at the drop of the hat. Kessel, however, lacks leadership and defensive skills. I can't imagine Kessel working on his defensive game or playing the penalty kill. Kessel gets a bad rap. Like Ovechkin and the Capitals, the Leafs need Kessel to be something he's not, and he puts up with a fair share of grief for it. I love Kessel, because I remain at heart a fan of the game, and a game-breaking, electrifying talent like that is something you can't manufacture. It's God-given. And I have to laugh at TO for constantly trying to get Kessel to be more than what he is, i.e., a kind of offensive idiot-savant. They should just relax and allow him to be the explosive scoring dynamo he is. Get other players to do those other things. Had you asked this question before this season, I'd have taken Kessel. But as I've repeatedly noted, Pacioretty has really taken a step forward this year in terms of leadership and complete game. He also strikes me as more consistent game in and game out. He can now be used in all situations and is clearly the dominant figure among forwards on the team. An elite player on any team, and any team would give its eye-teeth to have him. As a core piece, he is now superior to Kessel. And all this at a bargain rate (!). (Has anyone around here paused to consider what would become of our offence if Patches went down with a serious injury? Hoo boy, I shudder to think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 4.5 million for Pacioretty vs 8.0 million for Kessel. No brainer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 There is actually no question to answer because there is no way that MB is allowing that puke into our dressing room unless he comes on a tour bus. I was listening to Chris Nilan's opinion of him and I can tell you Knuckes ain't got no respect for Kessel. Now I agree with CC that he is an idiot ........savant of offence, but Patches actually cares. Flying Phil don't give a damn as long as his cheque clears the bank. And what a cheque it is. Patches is the better hockey player, Phil may be the better scorer but in his case the +- is actually accurate. You don't win with players like Phil. He is lazy, self centered,and a general no account ( i am not even sure what that means but I know it isn't good). An awesome skater and scorer who has no respect for himself or the game. Nah we gonna keep Patches. Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Kessel is the fourth highest scoring player in the last three years and one of only four players to hit the ppg mark in that time. He also played 175 games in the last three years, which is very good. His attitude is bad, but his point production is awesome. He makes players around him good too. Bozak, Lupul and others have had great years because of his work. This would be a tough call for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 There is actually no question to answer because there is no way that MB is allowing that puke into our dressing room unless he comes on a tour bus. I was listening to Chris Nilan's opinion of him and I can tell you Knuckes ain't got no respect for Kessel. Now I agree with CC that he is an idiot ........savant of offence, but Patches actually cares. Flying Phil don't give a damn as long as his cheque clears the bank. And what a cheque it is. Patches is the better hockey player, Phil may be the better scorer but in his case the +- is actually accurate. You don't win with players like Phil. He is lazy, self centered,and a general no account ( i am not even sure what that means but I know it isn't good). An awesome skater and scorer who has no respect for himself or the game. Nah we gonna keep Patches. Thank you very much. My buddy is from T.O and knows a bunch of guys in the A. He was saying he was told that Kessel never does stuff with team off the rink; social things. Who knows the truth behind that, but I'm not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 No even close..Kessel is an odd duck it seems; so will take the younger, bigger, faster, stronger, lower maintenance, "captain-material?" Wolverine dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 No contest. Bruins had kessel and did not want to pay him what he asked for. Leafs have him and neither coach particularly liked him. He recently refused Carlyle then Shanny when asked to play opposite wing. Came to camp overweight. Both players capable of 40 goals a year. Pax still determined to be a better player. Kessel likes to go fishing in April. As pointed out already, Kessel takes up twice the salary space. Currently has 2 pts in his last 14 games. Not even a close call for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Skill vs. Skill: Kessel Skill minus contract cost: Patches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Skill vs. Skill: Kessel Skill minus contract cost: Patches Skill set even. both 40 goal snipers. Patches all around game much better. Plays well all 200 feet of the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Skill set even. both 40 goal snipers. Patches all around game much better. Plays well all 200 feet of the ice. Yeah, that's it for me... Who would you take-Kessel or Pacioretty? Didn't think this was even a serious question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Skill vs. Skill: Kessel Skill minus contract cost: Patches Yeah I gotta disagree with Skill vs Skill being in favour of Kessell, for all the reasons list above. Patches salary is the icing on the cake. Not in a million years would I trade Patches for kessell straight up. I would want a solid defenceman as well. And a famous MB pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 My buddy is from T.O and knows a bunch of guys in the A. He was saying he was told that Kessel never does stuff with team off the rink; social things. Who knows the truth behind that, but I'm not surprised. There was a great feature article about him awhile back, I guess he's very distant and socially withdrawn. He's like a midwestern American version of Kovalev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 There was a great feature article about him awhile back, I guess he's very distant and socially withdrawn. He's like a midwestern American version of Kovalev. lol, I've seen him lose it on the bench at JVR a couple times too. He's not a good teammate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 lol, I've seen him lose it on the bench at JVR a couple times too. He's not a good teammate And they also say he is uncoachable, kind of like Le Artiste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 And they also say he is uncoachable, kind of like Le Artiste. But unlike l'Artiste, Kessel consistently delivers elite offensive results. He is twice the player Kovy was. To me, you don't coach a guy like Kessel, and the idea that he HAS to become a strong two-way player is another example of a culture of over-coaching in the NHL. Leave him alone. If his teammates absolutely cannot accept that a different set of rules apply to him, then you might as well trade him, because he's never going to become Jonathan Towes - he's never gonna be a conscientious player. Take the 40+ goals and the great wheels and focus on surrounding him with quality players who can compensate for some of those deficiencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 But unlike l'Artiste, Kessel consistently delivers elite offensive results. He is twice the player Kovy was. To me, you don't coach a guy like Kessel, and the idea that he HAS to become a strong two-way player is another example of a culture of over-coaching in the NHL. Leave him alone. If his teammates absolutely cannot accept that a different set of rules apply to him, then you might as well trade him, because he's never going to become Jonathan Towes - he's never gonna be a conscientious player. Take the 40+ goals and the great wheels and focus on surrounding him with quality players who can compensate for some of those deficiencies. no he is never going to become Johnathon Towes, ............problem is he and his agent asked that he be paid as though he was. So the critism come because for one its Torontp and two he's an easy mark. Personally i think the guy is just different. He was incredibly shy at first. Wrong team. He would have been just fine scoring 35-40 in nashville, or columbus. Heck the Devils he would be perfect specialty player just sniping. Toronto? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 But unlike l'Artiste, Kessel consistently delivers elite offensive results. He is twice the player Kovy was. To me, you don't coach a guy like Kessel, and the idea that he HAS to become a strong two-way player is another exahe's not gonna play e of a culture of over-coaching in the NHL. Leave him alone. If his teammates absolutely cannot accept that a different set of rules apply to him, then you might as well trade him, because he's never going to become Jonathan Towes - he's never gonna be a conscientious player. Take the 40+ goals and the great wheels and focus on surrounding him with quality plareminds o can compensate for some of those deficiencies. Exactly. You know who Kessel reminds me of? Guy Lafleur. He always has. hes not a captain, hes not gonna play defense, he is a bit weird. Who cares. His point production in the last six years is stellar. He is one of the best offensive players in the game. Having said that, I would be nervous to trade patches for him. The contract is just too good. Patches has the best contract in the nhl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If anyone outside of T-O would take Kessel over Pacioretty, they need this ---> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 But unlike l'Artiste, Kessel consistently delivers elite offensive results. He is twice the player Kovy was. CC, I usually find your arguments to be well considered and supported. However, I don't see any basis for your preferring Kessel over Kovy based on consistent production. In fact, Kovy's production was consistent up until the last few years of his career. I also don't think that Kessel will remain effective nearly as long as Kovalev given his disdain for off-season training. As per hockeydb.com GP G A P Kovalev NHL Totals 1316 GP 430 G 599 A 1029 PTS Playoffs 123GP 45G 55A 100PTS Won Stanley Cup with NYR Kessel NHL Totals 631GP 241G 261A 502PTS Playoffs 22GP 13G 8A 21PTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Those Kovy totals include times where he played with peak Jagr. The best player Kessel has had is JVR. Yet he's still in pace to have more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Those Kovy totals include times where he played with peak Jagr. The best player Kessel has had is JVR. Yet he's still in pace to have more points. Kessel vs Pax is only a close call for fans of video hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 But unlike l'Artiste, Kessel consistently delivers elite offensive results. He is twice the player Kovy was. To me, you don't coach a guy like Kessel, and the idea that he HAS to become a strong two-way player is another example of a culture of over-coaching in the NHL. Leave him alone. If his teammates absolutely cannot accept that a different set of rules apply to him, then you might as well trade him, because he's never going to become Jonathan Towes - he's never gonna be a conscientious player. Take the 40+ goals and the great wheels and focus on surrounding him with quality players who can compensate for some of those deficiencies. Talent wise kessell is not 2x the player Kovy was. Kovy had more talent than brains, that we can be assured of. When Kovalev made up his mind to play, he owned the puck. And I actually saw him back check sometimes. If you believe that Stanley cups are won by individuals and not teams then you have an argument. I believe that prima donnas like Phil kill the team idea. As to the 40+ goals, he has never scored 40 so I don't know where that comes from. Actually your argument in that paragraph is why I would keep Patches over Phil every time. You will win a cup with Patches. Phil might be a passenger on a cup winning team and probably will never have a sniff at a cup. Toronto can keep him. He fits their philosophy perfectly. Having said that FORK do we need a sniper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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