nihilz Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The only reason to put DD on the wing is if he's playing on the top two lines, because he's a better center, both defensively and offensively, than Eller. Either DD plays wing on 1st or 2nd line, or he ends up with more points than any other third line center in the league. He's good for 45-50 points a year no matter what line you put him on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 The only reason to put DD on the wing is if he's playing on the top two lines, because he's a better center, both defensively and offensively, than Eller. Either DD plays wing on 1st or 2nd line, or he ends up with more points than any other third line center in the league. He's good for 45-50 points a year no matter what line you put him on. Let's stick him on the forth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The only reason to put DD on the wing is if he's playing on the top two lines, because he's a better center, both defensively and offensively, than Eller. Either DD plays wing on 1st or 2nd line, or he ends up with more points than any other third line center in the league. He's good for 45-50 points a year no matter what line you put him on. How dare you recognize that DD is a pretty capable, if limited, NHL playmaker. Unacceptable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 How dare you recognize that DD is a pretty capable, if limited, NHL playmaker. Unacceptable. I think dlbar shouldn't probably kick him.. This kind of talk is unwarranted here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 How dare you recognize that DD is a pretty capable, if limited, NHL playmaker. Unacceptable. You forgot to add regular season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 You forgot to add regular season.Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 You forgot to add ONLY regular season. Fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Ha! Of course, I agree that DD dries up in the playoffs and that's why we need to upgrade on him. If he was as effective in the post-season as in the regular season, it wouldn't be nearly as pressing a need. Then again, Galchenyuk was an absolute no-show in the dance last year as well. The fallacy lies in assuming that just because you've given DD's job to someone else, you will automatically get better results. None of that should obscure the fact that DD is one of those players who 'helps you get into the playoffs' even if he doesn't 'help you win in the playoffs.' So yes, we need to upgrade on him; but he's a character guy and a likeable player who deserves better than the hate he seems to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 The hate for Desharnais comes down to coaching decisions, no different to Bouillon, Brisebois, Moen in the top six, Laraque on the PP, etc. DD has been miscast as a top six centre, but he hasn't been miscast as a top six forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 The hate for Desharnais comes down to coaching decisions, no different to Bouillon, Brisebois, Moen in the top six, Laraque on the PP, etc. DD has been miscast as a top six centre, but he hasn't been miscast as a top six forward. 'Miscast' can mean different things, though. One reading of it would imply that MT has other, superior options, which was certainly the case with things like Moen in the top-6 or Laraque on the PP. We then fume about getting rid of the player because his removal would eliminate the temptation to choose him over superior options. Up to this point, anyway, it's far from obvious that the Habs have had anyone better than DD in that role. Eller is a top-6 turd and we all know management's view that Galy need to 'ease in' as a winger and that he wasn't ready for the C role. So in that sense DD hasn't been 'miscast' - he's been the best we can do given the talent available. It makes no sense to blame either a player or a coach for what is really an organizational weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Really, there is also this little thing about Patcioretty having a lot of success playing with DD, add the aforementioned organizational weakness, and voila, we have a 60 pt pint sized center who has, for the most part, served us well, very well actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I should have said miscast as a first line centre. He's a perfectly acceptable second line centre. He has been phased back as a first line centre since last season. If DD is your top centre it's a problem. Then again, Calgary got to the finals with Craig Conroy as their top centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I should have said miscast as a first line centre. He's a perfectly acceptable second line centre. He has been phased back as a first line centre since last season. If DD is your top centre it's a problem. Then again, Calgary got to the finals with Craig Conroy as their top centre. Former Hab and idiotic-throw-in-on-the-Turgeon-for-Corson-deal Craig Conroy :flaming: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 How dare you recognize that DD is a pretty capable, if limited, NHL playmaker. Unacceptable. That's okay, because I think Eller's a bum who's being overpaid by 2.5 million dollars a year and MIGHT be able to compete with Mitchell or Flynn for their spots. (Weise has FAR more talent and upside than Eller, however.) One needs something to complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 From 30 Thoughts: The Montreal Canadiens hope they don’t have to do the same — that Alex Galchenyuk starts at centre and stays there. His first game down the middle last season was the the team’s first at home after Jean Beliveau died, and he was terrific against the Sedins in an emotional evening. He had four goals and seven points in his first eight games at the position, then three in six after the calendar flipped to 2015 and the experiment ended. His possession numbers also saw a significant drop. There was a lot of debate in Montreal as to whether Michel Therrien or Galchenyuk himself made the decision to switch back, but the truth is both sides were uncomfortable with where things were going. It makes more sense to start there, but there must be a willingness to stick with things when tough times inevitably arrive. Galchenyuk had four points in his first three games after going back to the wing, so managing that temptation may be a challenge, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 just to chime in a little bit here... but at no time in any single season of his NHL career has Lars Eller been given the opportunity to succeed in a top 6 C role the way DD has. the closest he has come was a stint of say 15/ 20 games playing with sophmores AG27 and BG11 at the time and they did fantastic until broken up in order to get DD out of his slump... now I'm not saying he'd succeed cause i don't believe he has elite vision of the game... but his opportunity to succeed or ultimately fail was never really given to him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 just to chime in a little bit here... but at no time in any single season of his NHL career has Lars Eller been given the opportunity to succeed in a top 6 C role the way DD has. the closest he has come was a stint of say 15/ 20 games playing with sophmores AG27 and BG11 at the time and they did fantastic until broken up in order to get DD out of his slump... now I'm not saying he'd succeed cause i don't believe he has elite vision of the game... but his opportunity to succeed or ultimately fail was never really given to him yet. Another way to put it is that Eller has never done anything to earn such an opportunity, or convince the coaches that he could succeed at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Another way to put it is that Eller has never done anything to earn such an opportunity, or convince the coaches that he could succeed at it. I have said it before and I will say it again; I am of the belief that Eller is a player that thrives off of other players and not the other way around. I can agree that he hasn't necessarily forced the coaching staff into putting him onto a scoring line, but I do think that if given the opportunity, he would succeed. Every player is different and plays differently with other players. Now I am not calling for him to be given a top 2 center role or anything, but I am defending his ability to produce if he was called upon in that role. Remember, he has been basically asked to be in a shutdown role and played with nothing but random guys his whole career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Nooo, don't start up the Eller argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 You don't get placed on the top line because you might play better there. You get placed on the top line because your linemates are dragging you down. That has never been the case for Lars Eller. At no point has he ever played with guys that were less talented than him. His position on a line brings the performance of those around him down. Compare to Desharnais, who earned his spot on the top two lines for the last few years, by playing just as well, wherever you put him. He's a solid 0.6 - 0.7 PPG player who is responsible defensively, too. He makes the players he plays with better. He really IS a number #2 center, considering there aren't 40 centers in the league more effective than he is, offensively. (There are 30 teams. If you're in the top 30 centers for points, you're a #1 center, if you're 31-60, you're a #2 center.) We want better, sure, everyone does. But he's not bad. Desharnais is twice the player Eller is, at both ends of the ice, and he comes at the same price as Eller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 You don't get placed on the top line because you might play better there. You get placed on the top line because your linemates are dragging you down. That has never been the case for Lars Eller. At no point has he ever played with guys that were less talented than him. His position on a line brings the performance of those around him down. Compare to Desharnais, who earned his spot on the top two lines for the last few years, by playing just as well, wherever you put him. He's a solid 0.6 - 0.7 PPG player who is responsible defensively, too. Desharnais is twice the player Eller is, at both ends of the ice, and he comes at the same price as Eller. I'm not entirely sure about the boldfaced part - Eller seemed to me to solidify what had been a pretty crappy two-way game last season - but on the whole, I agree completely with your post. This is a man's league and spots go to players who EARN them. Period. But when it comes to Lars Eller, there's always a constituency cooing 'poor baby Lars, never got a fair chance, poor widdle baby.' I say: bah! Eller's offensive game stinks. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I'm not entirely sure about the boldfaced part - Eller seemed to me to solidify what had been a pretty crappy two-way game last season - but on the whole, I agree completely with your post. This is a man's league and spots go to players who EARN them. Period. But when it comes to Lars Eller, there's always a constituency cooing 'poor baby Lars, never got a fair chance, poor widdle baby.' I say: bah! Eller's offensive game stinks. The end. I've spent more time tearing into Eller's game than most but stinks is harsh. He was our 5th best goal scorer at forward last season. We need guys like him scoring 15 goals on the third line. We just need to stop this idea that his potential could be more just because he scored 15 goals on the third line. Shawn Matthias scored 17 on the third line in Vancouver and then signed for $2M in Toronto. It wasn't a huge accomplishment. Brian Boyle potted 15 goals with the same amount of PP time as Eller and even less offensive zone starts. It's not some magical accomplishment but it is valuable to the team. That said... I get the feeling Jacob De La Rose is after his spot and Therrien thinks DLR will be better suited for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I've spent more time tearing into Eller's game than most but stinks is harsh. He was our 5th best goal scorer at forward last season. We need guys like him scoring 15 goals on the third line. We just need to stop this idea that his potential could be more just because he scored 15 goals on the third line. Shawn Matthias scored 17 on the third line in Vancouver and then signed for $2M in Toronto. It wasn't a huge accomplishment. Brian Boyle potted 15 goals with the same amount of PP time as Eller and even less offensive zone starts. It's not some magical accomplishment but it is valuable to the team. That said... I get the feeling Jacob De La Rose is after his spot and Therrien thinks DLR will be better suited for it. OK, OK, I withdraw 'stinks.' He is what he is, a 30-point guy and a solid if uninspiring 3rd-line C. If DLR gets his job, that's really just fine by me. And to those who maintain that Eller 'never got a fair chance,' I continue to say: BAH! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 OK, OK, I withdraw 'stinks.' He is what he is, a 30-point guy and a solid if uninspiring 3rd-line C. I'd be okay with that if he were making 1.75 million instead of 3.5 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't think it's that Eller hasn't been given the chance, I think it's that he never really earned his way up the lineup, for a few reasons, both bad luck and his own failures to play the game the way coach wants, and maybe a bit of sulking over his perceived role according to him, and the role he is best suited for and is given, again by coach's decision, based on performance and the goal of winning games, like every other team's coach does. I notice that every game Gallagher makes his own mark, and defines his own role, Lars needs to step up, and follow suit, end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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