The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 aaaaachoo. Yeah he has some good numbers, however he is 33, 5ft 9 and hasn't played a complete season since 08/09. I also think he probably has a bad taste in his mouth after the way he was treated here. I am not giving up any assets for him, I predict he has 1 maybe 2 years left. Then he will be almost useless. I don't hate the guy, but really that ship has sailed. Understandable. His contract locks him up until 2019, and that will almost certainly be what repels MB from any such deal. But still, that 27 goals...man, they would look mighty good on this team. As for trading Galchenyuk: get outta town! I've furrowed my brow and raised concern about whether he will ever turn out to be the big star we all hoped for, but nevertheless, the potential reward of keeping him is just too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Kyle Clifford Gilbert + Andrighetto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Kyle Clifford Gilbert + Andrighetto Why? does he have an upside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Why? does he have an upside? A bigger younger cheaper version of Prust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 A bigger younger cheaper version of Prust. I don't think we have any room for another 4th liner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Kyle Clifford Gilbert + Andrighetto Although LA has some cap space at the moment, there are a couple of potential issues for their cap - the Slava Voynov situation (will they be able to get out of that contract) and Mike Richards (will the NHLPA appeal the voiding of his deal). If things go their way for both of those players, then Gilbert might be someone they'd take. Andrighetto isn't the type of player they'd covet though. The Kings want players with size and that's certainly not Andrighetto. I don't think we have any room for another 4th liner. He's another Smith-Pelly in terms of production and perceived upside although he fights a lot more than he does. It's all moot though, LA just signed him to a five year extension just before the trade deadline. They're not moving him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 What would it take to pry one of Marcus johansson or Andre burkakovsky off the caps? They are weak at centre, so potential could be one of the few team who would benefit from Desharnais. I'm not sure how they are on defence, so I don't know if would could add Gilbert or Emelin. but I suspect it would take a lot for them to part with either. Probably DD + Gilbert + a second wouldn't do burkakovsky. What would work? I ask because we could move Chucky to Center and have him flanked by one of the caps guys and semin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Also both are left with and the caps still have ovie as obviously the top line guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Pacioretty - plex - Gallagher Burkakovsky - Chucky - semin DSP - Eller - Kassian Is a good looking top 9 (even if dsp is on his off wing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 What would it take to pry one of Marcus johansson or Andre burkakovsky off the caps? They are weak at centre, so potential could be one of the few team who would benefit from Desharnais. I'm not sure how they are on defence, so I don't know if would could add Gilbert or Emelin. but I suspect it would take a lot for them to part with either. Probably DD + Gilbert + a second wouldn't do burkakovsky. What would work? Two players that many want to see go as cap dumps and a 2nd rounder isn't going to land a 20 year old recent first round pick with 60+ games of NHL experience already. If you want him, it's going to cost high end pieces. And that would put Washington well over the cap when you add in Johansson's pending RFA deal. Johansson is a more plausible (and quite interesting) option though. He has three 40+ point seasons in the last four years (the one season he didn't get it was the lockout-shortened one). However, with the exception of last year, he is primarily an assist-only type of player which doesn't help. That is a spot where Desharnais could fit (or, more likely, Eller given their ages) and would open up a spot for Galchenyuk at C if they wanted to do that. The Caps have seven D signed already for a good chunk of change so I'm not sure Gilbert would be someone of interest to them. The catch here, though, is that he's just about to enter the arbitration process - tomorrow I believe - so if the Habs wanted to work out a longer-term deal, something like this would have to get done in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I know we'd have to part with a lot for Burkakovsky, but one can dream haha. Might just be better to try to sign Tlusty, although i suspect MB is done with FAs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So how about something crazy? Let's throw Desharnais + Emelin (1m retained between the 2, work it whatever way you want) to Coyotes for a pick + prospect (Duclair + 5th or 2nd + 3rd, just examples). Use this trade as a pure cap shed. Brings our cap from 5.6m (without Chucky signed) to 12.2m. Sign Ehrhoff to 3 years @ $4.5m. Gives us another lefty capable of eating minutes (over 21 minutes per game average last season) , another good PP guy and another top 4 defenceman. Our cap would now be, without Chucky signed, $7.7m. I would imagine Chucky is getting about $4m for next year, leaving us with $3.7m cap space. This gives us the option to maybe sign Boyes to a short term deal to fill in on the 2nd line LW and MB still should have his $1m cushion. Leaving our lines looking something like this: Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher Boyes - Galchenyuk - Semin De La Rose - Eller - Smith-Pelly Mitchell - Flynn - Kassian Markov - Subban Ehrhoff - Petry Beaulieu - Gilbert This gives us 2 defensive pairs capable of eating big minutes and our 2nd pair last year playing 3rd pair role. In theory the top 2 lines, especially the 2nd line, should produce more points, with our bottom 6 being our bottom 6. It may be a pipe dream, but I'm just throwing out an idea to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 So how about something crazy? Let's throw Desharnais + Emelin (1m retained between the 2, work it whatever way you want) to Coyotes for a pick + prospect (Duclair + 5th or 2nd + 3rd, just examples). Use this trade as a pure cap shed. Brings our cap from 5.6m (without Chucky signed) to 12.2m. Sign Ehrhoff to 3 years @ $4.5m. Gives us another lefty capable of eating minutes (over 21 minutes per game average last season) , another good PP guy and another top 4 defenceman. Our cap would now be, without Chucky signed, $7.7m. I would imagine Chucky is getting about $4m for next year, leaving us with $3.7m cap space. This gives us the option to maybe sign Boyes to a short term deal to fill in on the 2nd line LW and MB still should have his $1m cushion. Arizona traded Yandle with Duclair being a key part of the package coming the other way. They are not going to then move him months for two cap dumps. The Coyotes are rebuilding, why are they trading a player who is a key piece to their rebuild without getting anything to help them long-term in return? If Arizona had that money to spend (and $6.6 million for them, a team that bleeds money, is a big deal), wouldn't they be better off just signing Ehrhoff and another free agent like Boyes themselves and keep Duclair or their draft picks? With the quality of UFA's still out there, they don't need to trade assets to fill out their roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 When talking about overpaid third line centres, Lars Eller and Patrik Berglund come up a lot. That got me to thinking, perhaps that could be the basis of a trade? Both players suited up for 77 games last year and recorded 27 points apiece. Over the last three years, the stats are almost identical as well (84 points in 203 games for Berglund, 83 in 200 for Eller). Why for Montreal? Berglund, though a natural C, played the LW a lot last season. As we know, Eller isn't as comfy on the wing. Adding Berglund might make the team more open to moving Galchenyuk to centre and should he falter, they still have him as a fallback plan at that position. Berglund also has one less year on his contract (two to Eller's three). Why for St. Louis? Eller's a bit younger and over the next two years, carries a smaller cap hit than Berglund (by $200k/year) and salary ($650k less in total); since they're a budget team whose up near the cap, that would be helpful. St. Louis rolls a lot of different penalty kill options and Eller is a better fit in that role than Berglund. The hold-up is the final year on Eller's deal, a $3.5 M cap hit but a $4.75 M salary. For that, they'd have to probably send something else St. Louis' way to get them to take the extra year. Assuming that's not a significant addition, a swap like this wouldn't take away from the current roster (instead of giving away Desharnais as some seem to want) while creating a chance for Galchenyuk to move down the middle. It's a largely lateral swap but one that could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim.on Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I know Lars is 26 now and he hasn't done it yet but I still think he is going to crack the 40 point plateau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 When talking about overpaid third line centres, Lars Eller and Patrik Berglund come up a lot. That got me to thinking, perhaps that could be the basis of a trade? Both players suited up for 77 games last year and recorded 27 points apiece. Over the last three years, the stats are almost identical as well (84 points in 203 games for Berglund, 83 in 200 for Eller). Why for Montreal? Berglund, though a natural C, played the LW a lot last season. As we know, Eller isn't as comfy on the wing. Adding Berglund might make the team more open to moving Galchenyuk to centre and should he falter, they still have him as a fallback plan at that position. Berglund also has one less year on his contract (two to Eller's three). Why for St. Louis? Eller's a bit younger and over the next two years, carries a smaller cap hit than Berglund (by $200k/year) and salary ($650k less in total); since they're a budget team whose up near the cap, that would be helpful. St. Louis rolls a lot of different penalty kill options and Eller is a better fit in that role than Berglund. The hold-up is the final year on Eller's deal, a $3.5 M cap hit but a $4.75 M salary. For that, they'd have to probably send something else St. Louis' way to get them to take the extra year. Assuming that's not a significant addition, a swap like this wouldn't take away from the current roster (instead of giving away Desharnais as some seem to want) while creating a chance for Galchenyuk to move down the middle. It's a largely lateral swap but one that could help. Would be great for Chucky. I'm not pushing for Eller to go or anything, but that's a great propasal. Would not be upset of it were to happen. But since you bring up DD, and St. Louis just lost another small scoring forward (oshie? Too lazy to double check) would bergland for DD have any chance either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Would be great for Chucky. I'm not pushing for Eller to go or anything, but that's a great propasal. Would not be upset of it were to happen. But since you bring up DD, and St. Louis just lost another small scoring forward (oshie? Too lazy to double check) would bergland for DD have any chance either? Give up production if trade Desharnais for Bergland, but sounds like an OK deal with relatively even salary. But is Desnarnais's value to other GMs even near as low as most HabFans propose? And maybe with more PP time to Bergland and/or Eller up their production much? But at least, for once seems a more reasonable or realistic trade proposal involving Desharnais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Would be great for Chucky. I'm not pushing for Eller to go or anything, but that's a great propasal. Would not be upset of it were to happen. But since you bring up DD, and St. Louis just lost another small scoring forward (oshie? Too lazy to double check) would bergland for DD have any chance either? St. Louis covets size. Look at who they got for Oshie, another power forward. Desharnais wouldn't be someone they'd want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Makes a lot of sense, it's too bad because I think Eller is an ideal 3rd Center on our team (can handle some defensive duties) where Desharnais is not. Galchenyuk could replace dd's production if he was moved, but dd cannot replace Eller's defensive duties. Semin - Galchenyuk - kassian Bergland - Eller - dsp Or something along those lines would be a darn good 2/3 line. But as you say, not really possible unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I like Eller, sure he frustrates me during the season, but he's a guy you want to have for the playoffs. Look at our run 2 years ago, Eller was producing when most of the team wasn't. Look at last year, there were many times against Ottawa where Eller was putting on a clinic in puck possession when the rest of the team were getting knocked off the puck so easily. I don't think we'd be having this conversation if he used his size effectively more often. He is a strong kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Look at our run 2 years ago, Eller was producing when most of the team wasn't. So was Rene Bourque. Hot streaks are hot streaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 So was Rene Bourque. Hot streaks are hot streaks. It may be worth asking whether Eller's good half-season in 2013, and his hot playoff streak in 2014, weren't tied to Bourque's performance. Both events coincided with Bourque's only phases of being an impact player in our lineup, and the minute Bourque cooled off so did Eller. Considering that Bourque was a two-time 30 goal scorer, someone who, unlike Eller, actually did something at one time in the NHL, it may just be that he elevated his C. (Just a thought, not stated as fact). As for this idea that Eller is a playoff stud, one swallow does not make a summer. He did nothing special at all during the most recent post-season. Maybe he'll crack 40 points one day? How the crest has fallen from the days when we thought he'd become a genuine 2nd-line C. No one should pencil this loser in for more than 30 points and some OK defensive minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Why does everything turn into a Eller bashing session? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 It may be worth asking whether Eller's good half-season in 2013, and his hot playoff streak in 2014, weren't tied to Bourque's performance. Both events coincided with Bourque's only phases of being an impact player in our lineup, and the minute Bourque cooled off so did Eller. Considering that Bourque was a two-time 30 goal scorer, someone who, unlike Eller, actually did something at one time in the NHL, it may just be that he elevated his C. (Just a thought, not stated as fact). As for this idea that Eller is a playoff stud, one swallow does not make a summer. He did nothing special at all during the most recent post-season. Maybe he'll crack 40 points one day? How the crest has fallen from the days when we thought he'd become a genuine 2nd-line C. No one should pencil this loser in for more than 30 points and some OK defensive minutes. I once did some personal research on Eller about why he had such a good 12-13 as opposed to other years. It wasn't due to his linemates (he hardly played with Gallagher or Bourque that year. He was usually with Galchenyuk on his left and a mix of either Prust, Armstrong or Ryder to his right. It wasn't minutes. I then decided to look into his secondary assists. NHL is awful about this and doesn't track primary and secondary assists separately. You have to do it raw. I was bored at work and wanted to look into why Eller had more assists that season. In 12-13, Eller had 11 secondary assists. Combining 13-14 and 14-15 he had 10 secondary assists. His primary assists were stable between his last four seasons (10, 11, 8, 8) while his secondary assists have fluctuated (2, 11, 6, 4). The problem is, NHL doesn't track these so I'd have to spend the hour on every player to figure out if their secondary assists fluctuated or if it was pretty constant. It's hard to make the evaluation that Eller was simply lucky that year in points because the guy he passed the puck to had a better tendency to complete the pass to the goal scorer. But it is still an aberration compared to other seasons despite the point totals being similar. It's possible Eller should have been a 20 point player that year and not a 30 point player but those secondary assists inflated his totals. It's also possible that this happens to every player. I don't know. But that season also had the Habs running a killer powerplay and scoring tons of goals, picking up the slack where it needed to be (Ryder was unreal for us in the regular season when Pacioretty wasn't on his usual game, Subban was the best defenceman in the league, etc.) so there's likely a lot more to it. It's not Eller bashing. It's just Eller analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Frankly, I thi K it's a confidence thing with Eller. He works hard and does seem to give a damn - unlike bourque. I think you have to handle a player like that differently than a coach like Le Genius is apt to do. It also doesn't help that he starts most of his shifts in the defensive zone. I once did some personal research on Eller about why he had such a good 12-13 as opposed to other years. It wasn't due to his linemates (he hardly played with Gallagher or Bourque that year. He was usually with Galchenyuk on his left and a mix of either Prust, Armstrong or Ryder to his right. It wasn't minutes. I then decided to look into his secondary assists. NHL is awful about this and doesn't track primary and secondary assists separately. You have to do it raw. I was bored at work and wanted to look into why Eller had more assists that season. In 12-13, Eller had 11 secondary assists. Combining 13-14 and 14-15 he had 10 secondary assists. His primary assists were stable between his last four seasons (10, 11, 8, 8) while his secondary assists have fluctuated (2, 11, 6, 4). The problem is, NHL doesn't track these so I'd have to spend the hour on every player to figure out if their secondary assists fluctuated or if it was pretty constant. It's hard to make the evaluation that Eller was simply lucky that year in points because the guy he passed the puck to had a better tendency to complete the pass to the goal scorer. But it is still an aberration compared to other seasons despite the point totals being similar. It's possible Eller should have been a 20 point player that year and not a 30 point player but those secondary assists inflated his totals. It's also possible that this happens to every player. I don't know. But that season also had the Habs running a killer powerplay and scoring tons of goals, picking up the slack where it needed to be (Ryder was unreal for us in the regular season when Pacioretty wasn't on his usual game, Subban was the best defenceman in the league, etc.) so there's likely a lot more to it. It's not Eller bashing. It's just Eller analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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