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Patrick Sharp in a Montreal jersey. Why Not?


29habs3318

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The Rangers won't get him. They have to sign Stepan, Fast, Miller, and Etem yet. That'll eat up the ~$9 million in cap space they have (and likely then some).

Ottawa probably won't either. They still have Hoffman and Chiasson to re-sign up front. Once they're signed, they'll still have enough cap space for Sharp but they historically have been a team that won't go anywhere near the cap.

Rangers, like the Flyers, rarely care about the cap. They find a way. Hence why they are on my list. As for the Senators, I get the feeling they'll do a major trade to try to establish themselves in the Atlantic. Their fans believe they are going to be a challenge for the Lightning and leap frog the Habs. Adding Sharp would help make that argument, even if it means spending to the cap for this season.

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Rangers, like the Flyers, rarely care about the cap. They find a way. Hence why they are on my list. As for the Senators, I get the feeling they'll do a major trade to try to establish themselves in the Atlantic. Their fans believe they are going to be a challenge for the Lightning and leap frog the Habs. Adding Sharp would help make that argument, even if it means spending to the cap for this season.

Will a new GM change things for the Rangers though? I may be wrong but I can't see them willingly going $4-6 million over the cap when they're seeing how Chicago is faring trying to get out of that same situation currently. Sather might have in the past but who knows with Gorton? Philly, meanwhile, I think could stick their neck into a deal for Sharp.

As for Ottawa, their fans may want that but the owner has to be willing to spend it. By the time they re-sign their two guys, they're going to be around $7 million past where they were last year. They only spent $3 million more when they beat Montreal a couple years back so they've already surpassed what they put in the last time they made noise in the playoffs. Adding another $5+ million really doesn't seem like something Melnyk would do. Even if they won the Cup last year, I'm not sure he'd spend that extra $5+ million.

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Unless of course we can get Sharp for say Gilbert, B level prospect and second round pick.

We'd more likely need to get him for Emelin, B Level Prospect, and Second Round Pick. (Not what Chicago wants, mind you. What we'd need to send away to make enough cap-space. And it's probably still not enough.)

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Presumably Sharp can be counted upon to be a reliable, committed professional. One season removed from a 34-goal year, he can, one assumes, be counted on for at least 20-25 goals and to bring leadership and invaluable Cup experience.

I wouldn't count on Sharp's performance going up in Montreal, even if he rebounds. This is not a team with the level of talent or domination on the ice that Sharp is used to playing with. He isn't the type to carry the play - he relies on the guys around him to make space.

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Is Sharp still at 6million dollar player at 35 years old? Give me semin on a one year deal and see what free agency brings next year, or what player can be brought in at the deadline. Sharp is basically a two year rental

Unless of course we can get Sharp for say Gilbert, B level prospect and second round pick.

Sharp is unlikely to produce at the level of a $6 million player, no. But it's precisely the 2-year window that makes that a manageable risk. The issue is not the contract, it's what we might have to surrender to get him. Like I say, the return has to be reasonable. Semin, meanwhile, is human garbage and not to be spoken of as anything comparable to Cup champion, consistent career performer Sharp.

I wouldn't count on Sharp's performance going up in Montreal, even if he rebounds. This is not a team with the level of talent or domination on the ice that Sharp is used to playing with. He isn't the type to carry the play - he relies on the guys around him to make space.

I'm not counting on his production going up. That's why I suggest 20-25 goals, assuming he stays healthy; this is, historically, on the lower end of Sharp's production. It's always possible that he is completely washed up - we'd have to trust our pro scouts' judgement on that - but assuming he still has gas in the tank, he would be just what the doctor ordered for this team in terms of adding a quality FW for the next two years.

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Sharp is unlikely to produce at the level of a $6 million player, no. But it's precisely the 2-year window that makes that a manageable risk. The issue is not the contract, it's what we might have to surrender to get him. Like I say, the return has to be reasonable. Semin, meanwhile, is human garbage and not to be spoken of as anything comparable to Cup champion, consistent career performer Sharp.

But someone needs to do the fighting now that Prust is gone!

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I'm not counting on his production going up. That's why I suggest 20-25 goals, assuming he stays healthy; this is, historically, on the lower end of Sharp's production. It's always possible that he is completely washed up - we'd have to trust our pro scouts' judgement on that - but assuming he still has gas in the tank, he would be just what the doctor ordered for this team in terms of adding a quality FW for the next two years.

I'm sorry, I wasn't communicating well there. I said performance, not production. I was making a distinction, but I didn't make it clear. If Sharp rebounds from last year and plays great, and has the best year of his career in terms of how well he actually plays, he'll probably only get 20-25 goals in Montreal, whereas in Chicago he'd get 40. Since he's not likely to play the best hockey of his career, I wouldn't be surprised to see lower performance than that from him.

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I'm sorry, I wasn't communicating well there. I said performance, not production. I was making a distinction, but I didn't make it clear. If Sharp rebounds from last year and plays great, and has the best year of his career in terms of how well he actually plays, he'll probably only get 20-25 goals in Montreal, whereas in Chicago he'd get 40. Since he's not likely to play the best hockey of his career, I wouldn't be surprised to see lower performance than that from him.

Hmm. So you see Sharp as getting about 15 goals, 40 points in 82 games with Montreal? Seems kinda pessimistic to me, unless his decline is really precipitous. But with a 34-year-old, I guess you can never be sure.

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Hmm. So you see Sharp as getting about 15 goals, 40 points in 82 games with Montreal? Seems kinda pessimistic to me, unless his decline is really precipitous. But with a 34-year-old, I guess you can never be sure.

October: 8 points in 10 games

November: 1 point in 3 games

December: 8 points in 10 games

January: 13 points in 13 games

February: 2 points in 13 games

March: 8 points in 13 games

April: 3 points in 6 games

May: 7 points in 11 games

June: 3 points in 6 games

He was at least a half point per game player in every month last year with exception to one month where he was in a scoring slump. He doesn't show signs of a player that's declining.

Also all this "his scoring would drop considerably going to Montreal" stuff is a bit silly when Chicago only scored 0.07 goals per game more than us last season.

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Hmm. So you see Sharp as getting about 15 goals, 40 points in 82 games with Montreal? Seems kinda pessimistic to me, unless his decline is really precipitous. But with a 34-year-old, I guess you can never be sure.

And in that case, probably not worth the trouble. Let's go get Semin 1 year 1.5 mill. can't lose.

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I just want to see Galchenyuk signed... :cry_smile:

Semin... please no.

Help at forward will come, but Sharp is too costly for his production I think. I was on the bandwagon to get him, but have changed my tune...

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Semin plays better on a 1 year contract. That is how the Canes got into that stupid contract. He played really good when he needed a contract. ! year deal, that is the answer.

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Also all this "his scoring would drop considerably going to Montreal" stuff is a bit silly when Chicago only scored 0.07 goals per game more than us last season.

Great point, that.

I think we have to have a modicum of confidence in our team. If you take a 35-goal scorer and declare that, on Montreal, he's bound to drop to being a 20-goal man, then geez, there are hardly any players worth trading for. Also, by the same logic, Pacioretty would be a 55-goal scorer on Chicago and Pleks would be a 35-goal scorer. This way lies madness. It's probably best to take Sharp for what he appears to be: a 25-35 goal scorer in his prime, probably good for 20-25 goals as he declines.

Advocates of Semin simply do not believe that character and commitment matter, I guess; and therefore we can just keep piling up talented slobs and head-cases to our lineup and expect to win. I don't see it myself.

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Semin plays better on a 1 year contract. That is how the Canes got into that stupid contract. He played really good when he needed a contract. ! year deal, that is the answer.

Only problem with that is that he is still getting Hurricane money so he doesn't have to showcase himself ever again. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head where someone was bought out and then rebounded with a good year.

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Only problem with that is that he is still getting Hurricane money so he doesn't have to showcase himself ever again. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head where someone was bought out and then rebounded with a good year.

In a sea of Grabovski, Lecavalier, Briere, Gomez, Havlat, etc. the only one who had a big rebound year was Mike Ribeiro.

Some players have had smaller bounce back years like Souray, Gilbert, Brad Richards, Guerin, etc. What stops them usually isn't a need to showcase but injuries. The biggest reason for buyouts is that a player used to perform at a certain level, got hurt and could no longer perform at said level. That's Lecavalier's problem though he refuses to admit it.

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October: 8 points in 10 games

November: 1 point in 3 games

December: 8 points in 10 games

January: 13 points in 13 games

February: 2 points in 13 games

March: 8 points in 13 games

April: 3 points in 6 games

May: 7 points in 11 games

June: 3 points in 6 games

He was at least a half point per game player in every month last year with exception to one month where he was in a scoring slump. He doesn't show signs of a player that's declining.

Also all this "his scoring would drop considerably going to Montreal" stuff is a bit silly when Chicago only scored 0.07 goals per game more than us last season.

It's not about team scoring. Montreal had better 3rd and 4th lines than Chicago, sure. It's the first and to a lesser extent second line that's different. Sharp won't ever have the likes of Kane & Toews to help boost their performance. Pacioretty is the only forward Montreal has that belongs in that class.

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Maxpac would be a 45-50 goal scorer with a real centre.

Great point, that.

I think we have to have a modicum of confidence in our team. If you take a 35-goal scorer and declare that, on Montreal, he's bound to drop to being a 20-goal man, then geez, there are hardly any players worth trading for. Also, by the same logic, Pacioretty would be a 55-goal scorer on Chicago and Pleks would be a 35-goal scorer. This way lies madness. It's probably best to take Sharp for what he appears to be: a 25-35 goal scorer in his prime, probably good for 20-25 goals as he declines.

Advocates of Semin simply do not believe that character and commitment matter, I guess; and therefore we can just keep piling up talented slobs and head-cases to our lineup and expect to win. I don't see it myself.

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It's not about team scoring. Montreal had better 3rd and 4th lines than Chicago, sure. It's the first and to a lesser extent second line that's different. Sharp won't ever have the likes of Kane & Toews to help boost their performance. Pacioretty is the only forward Montreal has that belongs in that class.

PPG Top Six 2014-2015
Kane: 1.05
Toews: .81
Hossa: .74
Saad: .63
Sharp: .63
Versteeg: .56
Pacioretty: .84
Plekanec: .73
Desharnais: .59
Galchenyuk: .58
Gallagher: .57
Parenteau: .39
First of all, these are top six forwards and not being more realistic (i.e. how many games Bickell and Richards inserted into the top six for Blackhawks and how many games Weise played over PAP for Habs) Basically, Habs don't have a scorer like Kane. Patches is comparable to Toews in PPG. Plek is comparable to Hossa. Saad and Sharp were a little better than DD and Galchenyuk. Gallagher was a sliver better than Versteeg. It's with Parenteau that it drops like a rock. If we compare top four vs. top four (Sharp is #5 on Blackhawks top six chart), Chicago has a 0.49 PPG advantage.
What about goals?
GPG Top Six 2014-2015
Kane: .44
Toews: .35
Saad: .28
Hossa: .27
Sharp: .24
Versteeg: .23
Pacioretty: .46
Plekanec: .32
Gallagher: .29
Galchenyuk: .25
Eller: .19
Desharnais: .17
Eller sneaks into the top six there. Here you don't have a Kane ahead by a mile. The Habs are quite comparable in goals to the Blackhawks for the top four of the top six. As a matter of fact when you do the calculations it's a 0.02 GPG difference between our top four and their top four in goals per game. That's what Sharp would be entering. A near identical GPG but losing on being able to play with a guy like Kane, who can score at a point per game pace.
So while I agree with you that we only have one player in the class of Kane and Toews production, I just see no evidence that Sharp is going to drop into a half point per game player just because he doesn't have the opportunity to play with Patrick Kane anymore.
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Maxpac would be a 45-50 goal scorer with a real centre.

Quite possibly, but then again, it's probably unfair to DD to deny that he is a good playmaker. That may be all he's good at, but there it is.

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From Jay Zawaski, CBS Chicago hockey columnist:

@JayZawaski670

Just spoke with a great source. Bickell is basically "unmovable" and only 1 or 2 teams are willing to take on Sharp's contract. 1/2

2/2 Could have a Sharp trade at some point this weekend. Return could be NHL ready d-man and prospect. This could all mean no Oduya.

I will tell you that when I suggested Tom Gilbert as the d coming back for Sharp, source said "someone better than that."

I mentioned to him that Tom Gilbert was oddly specific:

@JayZawaski670

The Montreal rumors have persisted. It's a name that made sense that many have asked about, so I brought it up.

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Only a couple of teams in the mix for Sharp. That's good, it minimizes the danger of a bidding war.

That said, they want someone better than Gilbert, eh? Who might that be? If Beaulieu's name comes up, MB should slam down the phone (or just laugh). So who does that leave? Pateryn? I make that trade for sure. Emelin? Probably not sufficient cap savings for the Hawks, so I assume we'd need to take additional salary back somehow. Can't think of too many other options off the top of my head.

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No surprise that no one wants Bickell. That more or less makes it that any player coming back for Sharp needs to be on an ELC though which would take Gilbert out of the equation. That wouldn't bode well for Montreal's chances unless Tinordi is tossed into the equation if Chicago values him higher (but then Montreal would be over the cap when Galchenyuk signs).

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Nobody is going to make it easy for Chicago.

If Sharp is a true destination for the Habs and we have to spend a Tinordi or Pateryn to get the deal done instead of cap coming back, I have a feeling Bergevin knows a team that wants Gilbert or Emelin to make it a three team trade. That way both trades go through at the same time. Ship a Tinordi/Thomas/3rd for sharp then send Gilbert to another team for a 3rd.

New Jersey currently has four pro defencemen signed. Perfect location for Gilbert or Emelin (hey, they once took Volchenkov...)

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No surprise that no one wants Bickell. That more or less makes it that any player coming back for Sharp needs to be on an ELC though which would take Gilbert out of the equation. That wouldn't bode well for Montreal's chances unless Tinordi is tossed into the equation if Chicago values him higher (but then Montreal would be over the cap when Galchenyuk signs).

Wouldn't Pateryn be in play as well - especially considering the rumours that Chicago is high on him?

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dlbalr noted is not often a 'youngster' like Pateryn who is quickly extended then gets traded a year before that extension kicks in.

Gilbert to Carolina maybe to help make cap room?

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