JGC21 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The Habs can't take that much salary back though, not without making another move to free up cap space. Agreed. They will need to dump Gilbert (most likely) to some other team. Read: Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The Habs can't take that much salary back though, not without making another move to free up cap space. I agree with the Markov point, only really suggested it because there have already been a few fleecings this offseason. And I actually like Pateryn a lot. Great value for a 6/7 defender, big, physical and even has a small amount of offensive upside. He's like a cheaper Emelin at this point. Which is why I'd much rather see Emelin traded. A swap with a team near the floor would be nice. Michalek I would save 900k, mike weber plus save nearly 2.5 mill. Not sure how good he is though. I'm just not a big Emelin fan anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Agreed. They will need to dump Gilbert (most likely) to some other team. Read: Arizona. I actually see Gilbert as the guy the Habs would send to Chicago in a Sharp deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I actually see Gilbert as the guy the Habs would send to Chicago in a Sharp deal. Yes Chicago needs a ham handed defenceman. No really I hope he goes there or anywhere for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 With all the talk of trading Emelin OR Gilbert, I had a thought today that might the best option be to trade both of them? I say this because we have a pretty solid top 4 in subban petry Markov Beaulieu. We then have Pateryn who I believe is a perfect bottom pair guy and barberio/Tinordi who could fight for the last spot. Does anyone think those three are that big a step down from Emelin/Gilbert? I would agree that it would be AS strong a pair, but a youth movement could be good for the future and I think the cap savings (nearly seven million) could make the team better up front too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 With all the talk of trading Emelin OR Gilbert, I had a thought today that might the best option be to trade both of them? I say this because we have a pretty solid top 4 in subban petry Markov Beaulieu. We then have Pateryn who I believe is a perfect bottom pair guy and barberio/Tinordi who could fight for the last spot. Does anyone think those three are that big a step down from Emelin/Gilbert? I would agree that it would be AS strong a pair, but a youth movement could be good for the future and I think the cap savings (nearly seven million) could make the team better up front too. I don't think Pateryn is much of a step down from Gilbert. Tinordi MAY be a pretty big step down from Emelin, though, or even Gilbert. It depends on whether he shows up and is ready to finally win the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't think Pateryn is much of a step down from Gilbert. Tinordi MAY be a pretty big step down from Emelin, though, or even Gilbert. It depends on whether he shows up and is ready to finally win the spot. I think Pateryn is a step up from gilbert, I would like to see Gilbert gone. Emelin is a conundrum, if he comes back to being the hitter he was then he is useful. Otherwise not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Emelin played 21+minute/game in playoffs and easily led d with 42hits You know, Bergevin will never deal both Emelin & Gilbert, maybe one of them and Tinordi, but not both of those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan1989 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 If I am the habs I am hoping a teams top 4 d goes down and a team comes calling for emelin. Try and get a 2/3 round pick for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 With all the talk of trading Emelin OR Gilbert, I had a thought today that might the best option be to trade both of them? I say this because we have a pretty solid top 4 in subban petry Markov Beaulieu. We then have Pateryn who I believe is a perfect bottom pair guy and barberio/Tinordi who could fight for the last spot. Does anyone think those three are that big a step down from Emelin/Gilbert? I would agree that it would be AS strong a pair, but a youth movement could be good for the future and I think the cap savings (nearly seven million) could make the team better up front too. And if there are injuries? (There always are...) If one of the top four go down, all of Pateryn, Tinordi, and Barberio are in the regular lineup in that scenario. Considering all of them have significant holes in their game, that's a really scary situation, especially for a team that has eyes on winning. There are concerns that they're putting too much pressure on Price already - if they deal both Emelin and Gilbert, there's going to be a lot more pressure on him than even last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 When you look at the D depth: LD: Markov, Beaulieu, Emelin, Tinordi, Barberio RD: Subban, Petry, Gilbert, Pateryn If one has to go, makes more sense to move Emelin as Barberio can make up for the depth. But the more tradeable asset is Gilbert. bldalr is right about injury depth. Bergevin never wants to be without D depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 When you look at the D depth: LD: Markov, Beaulieu, Emelin, Tinordi, Barberio RD: Subban, Petry, Gilbert, Pateryn If one has to go, makes more sense to move Emelin as Barberio can make up for the depth. But the more tradeable asset is Gilbert. bldalr is right about injury depth. Bergevin never wants to be without D depth. The problem is waivers, how is going to keep everyone up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I guess carrying 8 d-men isn't an issue, but seems one got's to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And if there are injuries? (There always are...) If one of the top four go down, all of Pateryn, Tinordi, and Barberio are in the regular lineup in that scenario. Considering all of them have significant holes in their game, that's a really scary situation, especially for a team that has eyes on winning. There are concerns that they're putting too much pressure on Price already - if they deal both Emelin and Gilbert, there's going to be a lot more pressure on him than even last year. Great point. But it's always possible more depth comes back in one of the trades. The worst part is with the bigger UFAs already signed there isn't really much need for all that cap space in the short term. Barring trading for a guy like Staal haha. (I know all of these things happening is at about negative 92% chance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I guess carrying 8 d-men isn't an issue, but seems one got's to go. As much as it's far from a guarantee that Barberio would make it to the IceCaps, I don't think they'll have much hesitation waiving him. If they're content enough with 8, he'll be on waivers and that will be that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 So you do not think there is a real pressing need to trade one d-man before open of season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 So you do not think there is a real pressing need to trade one d-man before open of season? I thought they'd be likely to move one of Emelin/Gilbert earlier in the offseason but I'm not so sure now. There are still question marks with Pateryn and Tinordi and even Beaulieu with regards to what role he may be capable of filling. Until those questions get answered which won't happen until early in the year, I think they may be content enough to go with eight and use their trade chip in-season instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Staal Brothers ($1M retention on Eric's contract) vs Plekanec, Desharnais, Emelin, Smith-Pelly, Andrighetto, Nygren Whatever picks going here & there... Sign Semin 1yr $1M. Muhahaa Pacioretty Staal Semin Galchenyuk Staal Gallagher De la Rose Elller Kassian Bournival Mitchell Weise Flynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Scenario: Ron Francis calls Marc Bergevin. Tells him he has a situation. Eric Staal is not re-signing in Carolina but does not want to be moved unless the team he goes to is willing to sign an eight year contract for him. In exchange for career security he'll take $58M front-loaded, meaning a $1M drop in cap hit to what Carolina was paying him ($8.25M down to $7.25M). Ron Francis is calling Marc Bergevin first because he likes him from their playing days and said Eric always liked playing in the Bell Centre. The caveat is that if Francis feels like Bergevin is low-balling him, he'll offer Eric to the next team on his list. Ron Francis wants four pieces back: a potential franchise player, young defenceman, veteran body (to help Montreal fit Staal) and a first round pick in 2016. Potential Franchise Player: Alex Galchenyuk Young Defenceman: Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi or Noah Juulsen Veteran Body: Alexei Emelin, Lars Eller or David Desharnais In other words, the deal has to include Galchenyuk. The "hopeful future franchise centre" replaced by a guy who has proven himself for a decade he can be a franchise centreman and has a Cup ring to prove it. Try to offer less and Staal likely goes elsewhere (maybe Toronto where they may have hinted already to Carolina they'd give up Morgan Reilly to get Eric Staal). Do you do it? Or do you wait and see what Galchenyuk develops into becoming in the chance that Staal regresses like Lecavalier regressed in Tampa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If MB makes that trade, I see a trip to montreal with a gun, in my future. Firstly the 2 Staals had a total of 78 points between them last year. Pleks and DD had 108. Ok so jordan was injured give him 40 if not injured and you still only have 94 points. That should end this trade in it's tracks. The rest of the guys you gave away for free to make the cap dollars work. I don't think so. Talking about Nihliz trade, should have quoted sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Scenario: Ron Francis calls Marc Bergevin. Tells him he has a situation. Eric Staal is not re-signing in Carolina but does not want to be moved unless the team he goes to is willing to sign an eight year contract for him. In exchange for career security he'll take $58M front-loaded, meaning a $1M drop in cap hit to what Carolina was paying him ($8.25M down to $7.25M). Ron Francis is calling Marc Bergevin first because he likes him from their playing days and said Eric always liked playing in the Bell Centre. The caveat is that if Francis feels like Bergevin is low-balling him, he'll offer Eric to the next team on his list. Ron Francis wants four pieces back: a potential franchise player, young defenceman, veteran body (to help Montreal fit Staal) and a first round pick in 2016. Potential Franchise Player: Alex Galchenyuk Young Defenceman: Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi or Noah Juulsen Veteran Body: Alexei Emelin, Lars Eller or David Desharnais In other words, the deal has to include Galchenyuk. The "hopeful future franchise centre" replaced by a guy who has proven himself for a decade he can be a franchise centreman and has a Cup ring to prove it. Try to offer less and Staal likely goes elsewhere (maybe Toronto where they may have hinted already to Carolina they'd give up Morgan Reilly to get Eric Staal). Do you do it? Or do you wait and see what Galchenyuk develops into becoming in the chance that Staal regresses like Lecavalier regressed in Tampa? Im sorry. I think you misinterpreted the strategically placed and the stealthy exit. Very few players I'd trade Galchenyuk for. Desharnais Scherbak Tinordi Juulsen? p.s. I really got into your story telling.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Scenario: Ron Francis calls Marc Bergevin. Tells him he has a situation. Eric Staal is not re-signing in Carolina but does not want to be moved unless the team he goes to is willing to sign an eight year contract for him. In exchange for career security he'll take $58M front-loaded, meaning a $1M drop in cap hit to what Carolina was paying him ($8.25M down to $7.25M). Ron Francis is calling Marc Bergevin first because he likes him from their playing days and said Eric always liked playing in the Bell Centre. The caveat is that if Francis feels like Bergevin is low-balling him, he'll offer Eric to the next team on his list. Ron Francis wants four pieces back: a potential franchise player, young defenceman, veteran body (to help Montreal fit Staal) and a first round pick in 2016. Potential Franchise Player: Alex Galchenyuk Young Defenceman: Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi or Noah Juulsen Veteran Body: Alexei Emelin, Lars Eller or David Desharnais In other words, the deal has to include Galchenyuk. The "hopeful future franchise centre" replaced by a guy who has proven himself for a decade he can be a franchise centreman and has a Cup ring to prove it. Try to offer less and Staal likely goes elsewhere (maybe Toronto where they may have hinted already to Carolina they'd give up Morgan Reilly to get Eric Staal). Do you do it? Or do you wait and see what Galchenyuk develops into becoming in the chance that Staal regresses like Lecavalier regressed in Tampa? Nope you are paying a lot of money for the years when Eric will be on the down hill slide. Even if Galch doesn't turn out to be a superstar, he will produce at a rate similar to Staal. Last year Alex had 46 points and Staal 54 points. Add in DD and between them they had 94 points vs Staals 54. Nope that is a bad trade. You also want to give up a defenceman (pick one who could be a to 4 player). It is just crazy man. As well as give up a 5/6 defenceman and it becomes an even crazier trade to take a backwards step in offence which is our weakness. DD and Juulsen maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Anyways. I don't like Eric Staal. His dirty knees to Markov still infuriate me. I feel like he wouldn't be thrilled to play here either. Jordan is an over price version of what Eller should be. Very few players I'd consider trading Galchenyuk for. Hall, Schenn, Bjugstad, Barkov, Scheifele, Monahan and Brock Nelson or Boone Jenner just because they have fabulous names.. more or less list at least.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Machine's post seems to me to have been intended to add a dose of realism into all the fantasies about Staal or any other franchise C. Other teams are NOT going to take Desharnais, Eller, Tinordi, etc., back as key parts in the deal. They are going to be looking to reboot their franchise will star young talent. Beaulieu and/or Galchenyuk are almost guaranteed to be going back the other way. That's why I keep saying that I just don't see that we have the assets to make such a trade. We can't afford, organizationally, to lose Galy or Beaulieu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Machine's post seems to me to have been intended to add a dose of realism into all the fantasies about Staal or any other franchise C. Other teams are NOT going to take Desharnais, Eller, Tinordi, etc., back as key parts in the deal. They are going to be looking to reboot their franchise will star young talent. Beaulieu and/or Galchenyuk are almost guaranteed to be going back the other way. That's why I keep saying that I just don't see that we have the assets to make such a trade. We can't afford, organizationally, to lose Galy or Beaulieu. That and to ask, if acquiring a big number one centre is the number one priority of the Habs, are you willing to mortgage the current future of the Habs to acquire it? We could do the same with Joe Thornton (who is older than Staal) or say Jeff Carter. If a big number one centre will solve the Habs quest for the Cup, why are you trying to find a bargain? Go big. Give up whatever it takes to add them and deal with the consequences later. Or maybe a big number one centre isn't a need so much as a desire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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