Playoffs Round 1 Montreal vs Tampa Bay

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Patrick Roy was the greatest goalie of his era in my book and possibly the greatest of all time in terms of getting in shooters' heads and seeming invincible. I will never forget being in standing room in the Forum for Game 5 and seeing him raise the Stanley Cup directly facing us, and roaring his (and our) triumph. However, when speaking of mere mortals, Carey Price has had about as good a season as it is possible for a goalie to have. He's big, he's calm, he radiates confidence, he stops everything he's supposed to stop and more besides, 99% of the time. If he can carry that into the playoffs, one thing can be said with confidence: netminding will NOT be the problem. Any fan complaining about him this season needs their head examined.

EDIT: actually, Jeff, Roy sucked ass in 1992 if I recall. Especially in the playoffs. People forget that Roy, too, went through growing pains and only became PATRICK ROY after the 1993 Cup run. He was a superstar ever after.

patrick roy became "patrick roy" the moment he stepped onto the ice and one a cup in "86 not '93

• Calder Cup – with Sherbrooke Canadiens in 1985.
• Stanley Cup — with Montreal Canadiens in 1986 and 93
• Conn Smythe Trophy — 1986, 1993
• William M. Jennings Trophy — 1987*, 1988*, 1989*, 1992
• Vezina Trophy — 1989, 1990, 1992
• NHL All-Star Game — 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993
• NHL First All-Star Team — 1989, 1990, 1992,
• NHL Second All-Star Team — 1988, 1991
• NHL All-Rookie Team — 1986
• Trico Goaltending Award — 1989, 1990

awards he's won prior to 1993....

what separates roy from all goalies was his ability to walk into the NHL as a young rookie and seemingly dominate at his position from day 1 maybe not every game over 82 games but most nights.

most if not all goalies need multiple years of "conditioning" or "maturing" before there ready. e.g hasek, price and to a lesser extent brodeur

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

There's a bit of sarcasm there based on how Habs fans used to act about Roy. While Price doesn't follow Roy (he follows an overrated Huet, a wildly inconsistent Theodore, an underrated Hackett and a doomed Thibault before he follows Roy), the separation of time between Ken Dryden and Patrick Roy was small enough that he was always compared, especially after winning a Cup in his rookie year. Dryden never had a bad season. He retired before he could. That level of perfection was demanded of Roy. Before 93, Roy was considered a disappointed due to the Bruins series' where Cam Neely had his number. Regular season numbers didn't stop fans from focusing everything in those Boston series' on Roy. In 93 came the TRADE ROY chants. Even after winning in 93, Montreal went into 94 and lost to Boston despite Roy having appendicitis it was "just another series lost to Boston".

I've read some old Gazette's and Hockey News issues about how Habs fans used to treat Patrick Roy and the pressure on him when the Habs were eliminated was hotter than any other player. Of course so is the credit. Roy had a substantial Conn Smythe trophy deserving role in the 93 playoffs but that was a damn good team that wasn't carried to the Cup by Roy the way Hasek carried Buffalo in 99 or Giguere carried Anaheim in 03. Even the Habs today don't pressure Price like the pressure was on Roy.

To Jeff Price (no relation)'s original point of it all is whether Price has the ability to be Patrick? It's unfair to do that to Price, just like even when he became a Hall of Famer it was unfair to compare Roy to Dryden. Montreal has been damn blessed with legendary goalies. Heck we've been blessed with just very good goalies (we've even drafted excellent goalies that never played for us like Vokoun). It's like Boston and defencemen (Shore to Orr to Park to Bourque to Chara). Carey Price should be allowed to become the first Carey Price, and winning gold for Canada is the one thing he can say he did that St. Patrick never did. When he wins a Cup with Montreal (like we all hope), I hope the fact this is the 21st Century NHL allows Carey Price to stand on his own skates instead of have his achievements constantly compared to the goalies previous to him.

Sometimes I'd prefer a Chicago situation where they've won two Cups with goalies that didn't matter as much their other players did. But then again this isn't Chicago. If anything, I'd prefer to win the Cup with Price and Subban and Pacioretty and Galchenyuk and whoever else on the same level than the myth of it being the work of one man.

no way... patrick roy could of possibly been the only reason we won in '93. when a goalie can hold you into that many overtime games until your able to score....... come on. we should of been knocked out round 1 to quebec that year. only reason we weren't because of roy's OT heroics between the pipes!!!!

[KoRP]

Dryden had a dream career, but with the team in front of him, there really only was one year he actually stole the show, his first playoff.... he beat the stacked Bruins, but after that it was the team that was unbeatable.

Roy was sensational for us in '86 as well, a team of grinders, and a tough D core, with Robinson and Gainey as the vets who knew how to win, with a bit of offense mixed in, a slow footed #1 center Bobby Smith was outstanding as a leader, Claude Lemieux re-wrote the book on clutch goals, but Roy was the guy that stood on his head game in game out, and amazed the opposition with his big saves and never quit on a play. '93 was an even better performance for Roy as he refused to lose those overtime games, ask Sabres fans as they played really well, but lost 4-3 every game, with 3 of them in overtime.

Make no mistake, it was because of Roy we won both those cups, in '86 the pundits had us dead in the water after Calgary won the opener, because Calgary was bigger, faster, stronger and they thought Vernon would out play Roy. In 93 the pundits said after a lopsided loss in game one, that the Kings were by far the best team, I mean they beat the Leafs and Dougie G right?Gretzky was going to be the difference....

Price can do it too, but we are missing the centers we had, Damphousse, Carbo, Muller, and yes, even Denis Savard, who contributed more to the offense that year than some fans remember..... in '93 Demers turned a Burns drilled defensive first rigid team, into a team that was turned loose offensively, he said that Roy was the leader, and they could depend on him to allow them to open up and score some goals.

Without Roy, we would be waiting since 1979.... I watched them win that one in a hospital bed with a dislocated hip from a motorcycle accident, and you could still smoke in your hospital room, that's how long it would be without the heroics of Patrick Roy....

He revolutionized the goalie position, he was the best goalie that ever played in the playoffs, Brodeur could play till he is 60 and would still not catch Roy's playoff wins record. There is no question who the greatest goalie ever was.....

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If you look at Roy's playoff numbers, you see a marked dip in 1991 and 1992. This confirms what I recall from those playoffs. He simply was not very good in those particular years. I also recall his 1987 and 1988 playoffs being fairly uninspiring.

Now, in the period from 1987-1992, Roy was indeed one of the best goalies in the game. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying: that's all he was. Basically, he was a Carey Price who - unlike Price - had had one absolutely dominant playoff as a rookie in 1986. It is only after 1993 that Patrick Roy became more than just a very fine goalie with one stupendous playoff year under his belt, and became a legend. He had proven that he could deliver absolutely dominating goaltending in the clutch on a repeated basis, not just as a hyperactive rookie. And he was able to draw from that experience and that aura for the remainder of his career. He should have won an additional Conn Smythe in 1996 as well IMHO.

You don't have to argue that Roy was superman from the moment he stepped on the ice in order to defend his standing as an all-time great. Like I said, he too had growing pains.

As for the 1993 Cup team, one of the great calumnies in hockey is the often-repeated charge that that was a mediocre team elevated to a Cup by a great goalie. That squad was in the battle for #1 overall all season long until a late-season slump pushed them to 6th overall. Crummy teams don't compete for 1st overall for 3/4 of a season - and they did this despite one of Roy's worst regular season performances. That said, there can be no question that without St Patrick, they probably don't win the Cup. He was unbelievable.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

It's always forgotten sadly that Vincent Damphousse is a top 50 all time point producer in the NHL. People focus too much on his lack of a 100 point season. He once dominated an All Star game. Getting him basically for Shayne Corson was nutty. He was huge for us in 93.

I really think Alex Galchenyuk could be our Damphousse, albeit a different era.

[Habsfan]

Sucked?

Roy won the vezina in 1992. And 1990. And 1989. (all before 1993). He won the Conn Smythe for his Stanley Cup winning runs in 1986 and 1993 (as well as 2001 in Colorado). He won the Willam M. Jennings trophy in 1987, 1988, 1989, and 1992. He took the Habs to their second Stanley Cup appearance in 3 years in 1989 (but lost to Calgary.)

The Legend of Roy was alive and well before 1993. He just confirmed it in 1993.

Now, he did suck in 1993. Right up until playoff time...when he once again became a god between the pipes.

Here here!! Couldn't have said it better myself!

King Patrick was my idol growing up. True that he did struggle a bit in the 86-87 and 87-88 seasons, but he was still way better than everyone else out there!

[Toronthab]

I was really impressed when the new goalie coach responded to Price's doubts about his trapper by showing him videos of how good it is.

So much of everything is in the head. Strange but true.

[DON]

Current Odds Habs win East 10:1

Current Odds Habs win cup 20:1

seem bout right, but is a high % of upsets in 1st round and Tampa series will be very very tight I think. But, hope they make short work of em.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

Current Odds Habs win East 10:1

Current Odds Habs win cup 20:1

seem bout right, but is a high % of upsets in 1st round and Tampa series will be very very tight I think. But, hope they make short work of em.

I think that percentage might be about right, but for the wrong reasons.

Vegas currently has Montreal at 25:1.

However, that's because they have Boston at 13:4. St. Louis at 9:2. That doesn't leave much room for the 8th place team in the playoff odds.

Vegas odds are based on what people are betting, and there is misconception that the top place are more dominant than they are. If Boston gets stuck facing Montreal at any point of the 2014 Stanley Cup Playoffs, for instance, I believe Boston is toast. I'd give Montreal better odds of beating Boston than I'm giving them to beat Tampa Bay.

Montreal's going to have a tough time getting that far. But there's no way that Boston has a 31% chance of winning the cup. The odds are all about balancing the bets and ensuring that the bookmakers are profitable, that's all. Right now, a large percentage of betters are likely going to be disappointed by that over-hyped, over-sized bunch of slow goons on the Boo-ins.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Jeff Price (no relation)

[DON]

I think that percentage might be about right, but for the wrong reasons.

Vegas currently has Montreal at 25:1.

However, that's because they have Boston at 13:4. St. Louis at 9:2. That doesn't leave much room for the 8th place team in the playoff odds.

Vegas odds are based on what people are betting, and there is misconception that the top place are more dominant than they are. If Boston gets stuck facing Montreal at any point of the 2014 Stanley Cup Playoffs, for instance, I believe Boston is toast. I'd give Montreal better odds of beating Boston than I'm giving them to beat Tampa Bay.

Montreal's going to have a tough time getting that far. But there's no way that Boston has a 31% chance of winning the cup. The odds are all about balancing the bets and ensuring that the bookmakers are profitable, that's all. Right now, a large percentage of betters are likely going to be disappointed by that over-hyped, over-sized bunch of slow goons on the Boo-ins.

Ok so some bookies have it as 4% chance and not 5%. Either is about correct for Habs winning cup, slim chance.

Over hyped Bruins? What would make you think that, they are darn good team? They have dominated and didnt back into 1st place in league by accident.

[Neech]

Yeah, the Bruins are the real deal, and probably have the best forward depth in the league. But it's likely that the Habs are the team they most fear in the Eastern conference, and we're headed for a second round series with them. Incidentally, I'm thinking that the Wings could give Boston a tougher go in the first round than Columbus, so I'm hoping that's the match-up.

[habs rule]

Ok so some bookies have it as 4% chance and not 5%. Either is about correct for Habs winning cup, slim chance.

Over hyped Bruins? What would make you think that, they are darn good team? They have dominated and didnt back into 1st place in league by accident.

Cause we don't like them Don.

[DON]

Cause we don't like them Don.

I really don't like the leafs and enough French in me to be genetically predisposed to dislike Bruins; but you got to admit, they have a pretty solid team and Rask is one super goalie, that will give them a chance vs anyone.

But, I guess am more 'worried' bout Tampa outscoring Habs and just hope can get to 2nd round to meet Bruins, which is always very entertaining and flip a coin on who would win that series.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

Hmmm. I'm not sure i'd say that Detroit's a tougher team than Columbus. However, I agree that Detroit is going to tire Boston out more...they're far more likely to take the other team deep into OT.

Ignore the points, they're meaningless in the playoffs. Instead, compare ROW vs. ROL. You discard all shootout games, as in the playoffs you don't have the luxury of a shootout to win. And you value an OTL the same as an L, since in the playoffs a win is a win and a loss is a loss.

Detroit this year is 32 W - 33 L.

Columbus this year is 35 W - 36 L. Both teams have a losing record, but just barely.

By comparison - Montreal is 39 W - 31 L. And Boston is an incredible 50 W - 21 L. I wouldn't give Montreal a chance against Boston except Montreal's style of play seems to give the Bruins fits.

These are my adjusted "Playoff-relevant league standings:" You could make it more granular by showing home vs. away record and comparing if they have home ice advantage, but this works as a rough estimate of how strong a team is for the playoffs. Number of Shootouts is only relevant because over the long haul, teams that go deep into overtime more often in the playoffs tend to be more tired and suffer more injuries. (note that playing against such a team is also bad, for that reason.) But to get an adequate feeling for how strong a team is for the playoffs, you have to remove all Shootout wins and losses, and amalgamate any OTLs with losses.

BOS 50-21: Win% 70.4, 7 Shootouts

ANA 48-22: Win% 68.6, 8 Shootouts

COL 45-24: Win% 65.2, 9 Shootouts

STL 43-23: Win% 65.1, 12 Shootouts

SJS 39-23: Win% 62.9, 17 Shootouts

PIT 44-27: Win% 61.9, 8 Shootouts

CHI 39-25: Win% 60.9, 14 Shootouts

MTL 39-31: Win% 55.7, 9 Shootouts

LAK 37-30: Win% 55.2, 12 Shootouts

PHI 37-31: Win% 54.4, 10 Shootouts

NYR 39-33: Win% 54.2, 7 Shootouts

TBY 35-30: Win% 53.8, 13 Shootouts

MIN 33-30: Win% 52.4, 15 Shootouts

DAL 35-35: Win% 50.0, 8 Shootouts

CBS 35-36: Win% 49.3, 7 Shootouts

DET 32-33: Win% 49.2, 13 Shootouts

PHO 30-35: Win% 46.1, 13 Shootouts

Edited April 8, 2014 by Jeff Price (no relation)

[Chris]

I don't think Tampa is the best match up for the habs.

Things I like:

Better offensively, can actually score 5 on 5

Better character and toughness, assuming Prust Moen and Weise are the 4th line

Price

The PK has been great all year

Problems I see against Tampa:

Defense is very slow footed, bad against fast forwards

The PP has been slumping

Can they get to the front of the net? only 4 goals scored against Tampa in 4 games

The D zone gets a little turnover happy and they can't clear the zone at times.

We'll see who shows up soon enough

[DON]

Sounds like Gorges & Wiese will be back for start of playoffs at worst and

But Prust & Moan?

Moan is very good on the PK; Gorges-Subban seem to play well together and Wiese seems to help them win and speedy gritty energy guy always good to have around.

Just seems like Prust's shoulder is not very durable, but he sure can be an effective guy at times and fights alot.

[hab29RETIRED]

Sounds like Gorges & Wiese will be back for start of playoffs at worst and

But Prust & Moan?

Moan is very good on the PK; Gorges-Subban seem to play well together and Wiese seems to help them win and speedy gritty energy guy always good to have around.

Just seems like Prust's shoulder is not very durable, but he sure can be an effective guy at times and fights alot.

I want Gorges back, Wiese is also a plus. WIth the depth we have, I think Moen will be expandable after this year.

[Habsfan]

WIth the depth we have, I think Moen will be expandable after this year.

Agreed. If we can trade Moen this summer that would be good. We have enough players to play on the 4th line! White or Bournival could easily replace Moen. Weiss and Prust are great fourth liners as well!

[Guest Stogey24]

I want Gorges back, Wiese is also a plus. WIth the depth we have, I think Moen will be expandable after this year.

There was no need for Moen at the start of this year. He wont be fighting anymore after getting concussed.... His intimidation factor is long gone.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

We don't pay Moen to intimidate. We pay him to be clutch.

[Guest Stogey24]

We don't pay Moen to intimidate. We pay him to be clutch.

Captain clutch with 12pts. Pretty sure he's a fourth liner. He's paid to lay the body and drop the gloves if need be. With an eye injury and now a brain injury he's becoming more of a liability. Prust-White-Weise is an excellent fourth line. Moen will be gone this off season.

[dlbalr]

Captain clutch with 12pts. Pretty sure he's a fourth liner. He's paid to lay the body and drop the gloves if need be. With an eye injury and now a brain injury he's becoming more of a liability. Prust-White-Weise is an excellent fourth line. Moen will be gone this off season.

I don't think either of those are his primary role. He's paid to be a shutdown forward, one that can play a regular penalty kill role and move up onto higher lines in late game defensive situations. The pugilistic part is more secondary, especially with guys like Prust, White, Weise, and Parros also on the team.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

The Moen-Prust-Weiss line is exciting to watch.

Good things tend to happen while they're on the ice, and bad things don't. They're never going to put up big numbers, but that's not the point.

Most teams have a bunch of "who cares" guys on the fourth line, that are simply the best people they could fill out the roster with at the lowest price. Montreal's fourth line is legit, and serves a purpose, and i wouldn't want to be without them very long.

For me, Montreal's "Who cares" guys are Ryan White, Rene Bourque, and George Parros. You don't need to dress any of them unless you've got an injury in your core players.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Jeff Price (no relation)

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Captain clutch with 12pts.

Scored a Stanley Cup winning goal. Go find me someone else on the roster who has done that.

[Guest Stogey24]

Scored a Stanley Cup winning goal. Go find me someone else on the roster who has done that.

lol, come on now.