1397 replies to this topic

[Commandant]

I was hoping we could have a thread where we could talk about potential 2012 Entry Draft prosects.

I'm not sure if you want it in this forum or the Prospects one, but I'll leave that to the Mods to decide.

Anyways, I think I will start things off with a very interesting interview done with McKeen's Draft Guide Guru David Burstyn. Burstyn is a former scout for the Sarnia Sting.... and covers the OHL for the McKeen's draft guide.

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/2012/01/chat-with-mckeens-draft-guide-guru_19.html

Here it is, its really a great read.

We've talked a little on Galchenyuk lately and I really loved these comments from someone who was close to the kid.

BO: "Hypothetically speaking, if Alex Galchenyuk doesn’t tear up his knee, does he compete with Nail (and Grigerenko for that matter) for first overall?"

DB: "I have an advantage as I was part of the scouting staff in Sarnia that drafted Alex first overall and saw him play quite often as a member of the Chicago Young Americans and last year in his OHL rookie season. Galchenyuk has elite skills and marries it with a competitive streak that is unrivalled by his peers. In addition to his scoring exploits, as he was the highest scoring 94 in the OHL last season with 83 points in all 68 games, he is an incredibly smart-two player. He simply hates to loose and his training regime is second to none as he is very committed off ice. There is speculation that he may return at the end of February as he is rehabbing his knee twice a day and making special trips to London for treatment. Should he return it would be great for the Sting and the league as he is worth the price of admission."

BO: "So with that in mind, just where do you stand on Galchenyuk? If you’re an NHL team with a top 10 pick, do you draft him?"

DB: "Brett Connolly only played 15 games in his NHL draft year and was selected 6th overall by Tampa. Should Galchenyuk fall outside the top 10, I think one team gets an absolute steal. Galchenyuk had only an average Ivan Hlinka tournament but his accomplishments from last year and his high character level should be enough for him to fall inside the top 10. I know that we will not take him outside of our top 10 ranking and NHL teams that are picking in that range will be keeping close tabs on his recovery."

[Seb]

Good read. This is a quiet thread. Since it's so quiet, let's stare at something else:

The top 3 picks of the last ten entry drafts, since that is what us #FailForNail, #BlowForGrigorenko or #SuckForGlachenyuk people are hoping for:

2011:
1. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2. Gabriel Landeskog
3. Johnathan Huberdeau

2010:
1. Taylor Hall
2. Tyler Seguin
3. Erik Gudbranson

2009:
1. John Tavares
2. Victor Hedman
3. Matt Duchene

2008:
1. Steven Stamkos
2. Drew Doughty
3. Zach Bogosian

2007:
1. Patrick Kane
2. James van Riemsdyk
3. Kyle Turris

2006:
1. Erik Johnson
2. Jordan Staal
3. Johnathan Toews

2005:
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Bobby Ryan
3. Jack Johnson

2004:
1. Alex Ovechkin
2. Evgeni Malkin
3. Cam Barker

2003:
1. MA Fleury
2. Eric Staal
3. Nathan Horton

2002:
1. Rick Nash
2. Kari Lehtonen
3. Jay Bouwmeester

At the very least, each one of these players is an NHL player. But there are some serious superstars in this list, and though nothing is guaranteed in a draft, a top 3 pick is something you have to try very hard to screw up.

Keep sucking, Habs!

[Commandant]

Trying to generate more discussion.....

ISS' head scout o n ranking Grigorenko ahead of Yakupov.

This was the quote from November when Grigorenko first pulled ahead.


"There is a vast difference in the way the two play the game," added MacInnis. "Yakupov reminds ISS more of a Pavel Bure/Taylor Hall type player, while Grigorenko seems to be a Joe Thornton clone. Yakupov has done nothing to warrant falling out of the top spot, but after many viewings and much debate the time has come for Grigorenko to reap the rewards of his continual and dominant development."

He's now been ranked number 1 for the third straight month

Story
http://www.tsn.ca/dr...tory/?id=385277

ISS top 50
http://www.tsn.ca/dr...ature/?id=57124




Meanwhile, Craig Button's latest list is quite a bit different. Yakupov 1, Dumba 2, Galchenyuk 5, Grigorenko 7.

http://www.tsn.ca/dr...ature/?id=49649

[hab29RETIRED]

Trying to generate more discussion.....

ISS' head scout o n ranking Grigorenko ahead of Yakupov.

This was the quote from November when Grigorenko first pulled ahead.


"There is a vast difference in the way the two play the game," added MacInnis. "Yakupov reminds ISS more of a Pavel Bure/Taylor Hall type player, while Grigorenko seems to be a Joe Thornton clone. Yakupov has done nothing to warrant falling out of the top spot, but after many viewings and much debate the time has come for Grigorenko to reap the rewards of his continual and dominant development."

He's now been ranked number 1 for the third straight month

Story
http://www.tsn.ca/dr...tory/?id=385277

ISS top 50
http://www.tsn.ca/dr...ature/?id=57124




Meanwhile, Craig Button's latest list is quite a bit different. Yakupov 1, Dumba 2, Galchenyuk 5, Grigorenko 7.

http://www.tsn.ca/dr...ature/?id=49649

Craig Button is an idiot. From the current "analysts" I can't stand he ranks number 5th worst, just behind Milbury, P J Stock, Healey and McGuire.

If we can get Grigorenko, all the more reason to hire Patrick Roy as the coach.

[Blonde Demon]

To be honest, I don't see us picking in the top 3 nor in the top 5 unless we trade up to get there..

IMO, I think we will be picking anywhere from 6th to 12th range...

In the prospects listed in that range, the 2 that are the most intriguing to me is Griffen Reinhart and Brendan Gaunce..

Griffin Rienhart is just 17 years of age, but has NHL size, already..6'4" 215lbs. I have seen comparisons to Shea Weber and Chris Pronger..He has a great pedigree (Paul, his dad, played 17 seasons in the NHL and his brothers are in the Flames system and in the WHL)

http://www.mynhldraf...riffin-Reinhart

Brendan Gaunce is a big, nasty center that has a great scoring ability..He also is already at NHL size..6'2" 200+ lbs.

He has a great shot and great leadership abilities on and off the ice..The kid can fight if need be..

http://www.mynhldraf.../Brendan-Gaunce

Edited by Blonde Demon, 22 January 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[hab29RETIRED]

To be honest, I don't see us picking in the top 3 nor in the top 5 unless we trade up to get there..

IMO, I think we will be picking anywhere from 6th to 12th range...

In the prospects listed in that range, the 2 that are the most intriguing to me is Griffen Reinhart and Brendan Gaunce..

Griffin Rienhart is just 17 years of age, but has NHL size, already..6'4" 215lbs. I have seen comparisons to Shea Weber and Chris Pronger..He has a great pedigree (Paul, his dad, played 17 seasons in the NHL and his brothers are in the Flames system and in the WHL)

http://www.mynhldraf...riffin-Reinhart

Brendan Gaunce is a big, nasty center that has a great scoring ability..He also is already at NHL size..6'2" 200+ lbs.

He has a great shot and great leadership abilities on and off the ice..The kid can fight if need be..

http://www.mynhldraf.../Brendan-Gaunce

I haven't seen any of these guys play, with the exception of the russians and candians in the world junirs, but Reinhart scares me - only because of our experience with another son/relatives of an ex-flame (chouinard). Son's of ex-nhlers tend to be a crap shoot (suter has been great, but there are many others that you have to wonder if their draft position was influenced due to their blood lines)

I also would want to stay away from Gaunce, from everything i've read, he sounds a lot like Chipchura.

I think we can drop to the bottom five, but I think you are right that it will be hard to go lower then that give how bad Columbus, Carolina and Edmonton are. But if we can stay in the bottom five, at least we are in a lottery position.

[JMMR]

I like the idea of this thread.
And it will surley get more exciting as the season draws closer to the end.

[Commandant]

Gaunce may sound like Chipchura, but he shows far more offensive game in the OHL than Chipchura showed in the WHL.

I also think Chipchura would have been an excellent 3rd line centre if he never suffered the achillies injury after his draft. He never recovered his skating ability and speed.

I'm not as worried about Galchenyuk's knee, but the achillies is huge to me, different tendon and I really think it effects an athlete, especially when you need to skate, a lot more.

Robert Lang was never the same after his achillies injury too.

I know Lang was much older, but I'm not sure of any other hockey players who blew an achillies.

[hab29RETIRED]

Gaunce may sound like Chipchura, but he shows far more offensive game in the OHL than Chipchura showed in the WHL.

I also think Chipchura would have been an excellent 3rd line centre if he never suffered the achillies injury after his draft. He never recovered his skating ability and speed.

I'm not as worried about Galchenyuk's knee, but the achillies is huge to me, different tendon and I really think it effects an athlete, especially when you need to skate, a lot more.

Robert Lang was never the same after his achillies injury too.

I know Lang was much older, but I'm not sure of any other hockey players who blew an achillies.

Like I said, I haven't seen Gaunce play - only have read ratings and reviews, that's why I said he sounded like Chipchura - some even mentioned Chipchura by name. Not sure if they were referring to the pre or post injury Chipchura. What I do remeber about Chipchura was at the draft some of the "analysts" were saying he would one day be the future captain of the Canadiens.

In any event, I REALLY hope we either try and move up in the draft or at least fall down to the bottom 5. I think I'd be okay, if the only games we won were against the leafs, bruins and flyers - just as long, we develop some of young guys like Subban, Eller, MaxPac, Emelin and Desharnais so they are ready to take the next step. I really want our young guys to get off to strong starts right out of the gate next year.

I also want us to address the lack of size, scoring and skill at the centre position. It would be great if could get Grigorenko. I'd be happy going into next year without an experienced pick up at the centre position next year if we were able to get Grigorenko. Move DD to the wing and resigning AK46, would give us a pretty good top 9.
Cole-Pleks-(Bourque/replacment)
DD-Eller-Maxpac
Ak46-Grigorenko-Gionta
White-(repace noki)-Blunden

[JMMR]

Gaunce may sound like Chipchura, but he shows far more offensive game in the OHL than Chipchura showed in the WHL.

I also think Chipchura would have been an excellent 3rd line centre if he never suffered the achillies injury after his draft. He never recovered his skating ability and speed.

I'm not as worried about Galchenyuk's knee, but the achillies is huge to me, different tendon and I really think it effects an athlete, especially when you need to skate, a lot more.

Robert Lang was never the same after his achillies injury too.

I know Lang was much older, but I'm not sure of any other hockey players who blew an achillies.

Did Markov not have his acheillies severed or partially severed?

[Commandant]

Did Markov not have his acheillies severed or partially severed?

No

The achillies is the back of your foot and ankle.

Markov had a tendon in his foot severed when Price stepped on his skate, but that was the front of his foot.

The tendon at the front of the foot is easier to recover from, it doesn't need to be as strong as the achillies needs to be (needs to be the strongest tendon in your body, based on where it is).

[illWill]

Robert Lang was never the same after his achillies injury too.

I know Lang was much older, but I'm not sure of any other hockey players who blew an achillies.

I think I remember Selanne tearing his achillies way back in the day. He is still flying around the ice at age 63

[Trizzak]

I think I remember Selanne tearing his achillies way back in the day. He is still flying around the ice at age 63

[Commandant]

Selanne did, thats true.

Sami Salo is another, but I'm not sure what category to put him in (full recovery or injury prone limiting his career?)

[goalerexpert86]

I've watched Gaunce play a ton in Belleville. He has all the tools and plays very tough, great in the corners. Good in his own end. But he isn't a real dynamic player, will score points but won't take over a game offensively.

Now Danny Zharkov Russian OHL Rookie. He is unbelievably good. Plays the whole length of the ice, has a crazy quick release. He can take over a game offensibvly. Blocks shots. He does everything. I'd love to see Vancouver grab him in the 1st.

[Commandant]

Ultimately I wouldn't mind Gaunce, but he's a huge downgrade from Grigorenko, and Galchenyuk, that I really think we need to put ourselves in position to get those guys.

Must be top 2 to guarantee Grigorenko.

Top 5 probably gives you an excellent shot at Galchenyuk, but he could go anywhere from 3rd to 10th depending on the team doing the picking.

[Blonde Demon]

I haven't seen any of these guys play, with the exception of the russians and candians in the world junirs, but Reinhart scares me - only because of our experience with another son/relatives of an ex-flame (chouinard). Son's of ex-nhlers tend to be a crap shoot (suter has been great, but there are many others that you have to wonder if their draft position was influenced due to their blood lines)

I also would want to stay away from Gaunce, from everything i've read, he sounds a lot like Chipchura.

I think we can drop to the bottom five, but I think you are right that it will be hard to go lower then that give how bad Columbus, Carolina and Edmonton are. But if we can stay in the bottom five, at least we are in a lottery position.

Ummm..Jared Tinordi, anyone? I don't see anyone complaining about him being the son of Mark Tinordi..I think if you have a bloodline and pedigree like that, you are a head of the game at where you should be at that age..Paul Stastny is another good young guy with loads of talent and the son of a great former NHLer...Mark Howe, Brett Hull, the Folignos, Parise, etc..

I seriously think we need to get harder on the blue line..With the talent potential of Reinhart, we could be passing up a great oppurtunity to get a Shea Weber/Chris Pronger..I honestly think this is the way to go if we can't trade up into the top 3..

Future top 6 if Reinhart were drafted 3-5 years from now:

Subban-Reinhart
Beaulieu-Tinordi
Emelin-Gorges

That's a whole lot a nasty back there with a great mix of puck skill..

Edited by Blonde Demon, 22 January 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[JMMR]

If we had a nasty guy like that I would be elated.

As for the blood lines things, I alwways say go with it if the other player has similar potential.

hell I wish the Habs took Geoffrion a couple of years ago look at his blood lines, 2 HHOF and Habs retired jerseys in his family. (no pressure kid)

[Blonde Demon]

If we had a nasty guy like that I would be elated.

As for the blood lines things, I alwways say go with it if the other player has similar potential.

hell I wish the Habs took Geoffrion a couple of years ago look at his blood lines, 2 HHOF and Habs retired jerseys in his family. (no pressure kid)

(Take it, Reinhart is only 16 years of age in this 2nd video and doing pretty good against a 19 year old)

Edited by Blonde Demon, 22 January 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[hab29RETIRED]

Ummm..Jared Tinordi, anyone? I don't see anyone complaining about him being the son of Mark Tinordi..I think if you have a bloodline and pedigree like that, you are a head of the game at where you should be at that age..Paul Stastny is another good young guy with loads of talent and the son of a great former NHLer...Mark Howe, Brett Hull, the Folignos, Parise, etc.. I seriously think we need to get harder on the blue line..With the talent potential of Reinhart, we could be passing up a great oppurtunity to get a Shea Weber/Chris Pronger..I honestly think this is the way to go if we can't trade up into the top 3.. Future top 6 if Reinhart were drafted 3-5 years from now: Subban-Reinhart Beaulieu-Tinordi Emelin-Gorges That's a whole lot a nasty back there with a great mix of puck skill..

Tinordi is still a prospect. Let's wait to see how he does.

Yeah the Howe's, Hull were great, as has been Suter. However, Brett Hull was considered a long-shot and in the mid-80's he was considered to have a good shot (not as good as his father) and was seen to be a lousy skater with poor work ethic and overweight. I remember the media here in Calgary was excited, especially after he scored in his first call up, but nobody was really crying when he got traded. Looking back at the deal now, if the flames didn't win the cup (something that pisses me off to this day), that deal would have been looked back as one of Fletcher's worst deals.

I also think that Foligno's is better then his dad. I don't know Parise's blood lines, so can't speak to him. I think he had an uncle and dad in the game, but don't know anything about htem.

While Paul Stasny has been good, I'm not sure if his brother is still in the game. I also think the sutter sons while one of them has been a fairly good player (the one on the Canes), I think he is over-rated and the one that was on the Flames was completely over-rated. WOuld anyone really be talking about Geofferion, if it wasn't for his blood lines, just as his father before him???

I"m not saying that all players with blood lines aren't good (in some cased they may be better then their father/relatives), but I do think y good their is a tendency to over-rate these guys because of their blood lines. I think that played into the habs opting for Choiunard over Gagne.

If we had a nasty guy like that I would be elated. As for the blood lines things, I alwways say go with it if the other player has similar potential. hell I wish the Habs took Geoffrion a couple of years ago look at his blood lines, 2 HHOF and Habs retired jerseys in his family. (no pressure kid)

Who was the other hall of famer other then Boom boom??? I thought the son was supposed to be a bust?

(Take it, Reinhart is only 16 years of age in this 2nd video and doing pretty good against a 19 year old)

Frankly, unless a dman is the best player by FAR available, I really want us to target a centre - even if that means moving up or down in the draft. I like some of our prospects on defense, but up front, we have a lot of smaller guys and i really want a big guy with skill and toughness.

[Commandant]

Boom Boom's wife was Howie Morenz's daughter.

So Blake's granpa is Boom Boom, and his great Grandpa is Morenz.

=========================================

I agree you have to be careful not to overrate blood lines, but that doesn't mean stay away from them completely either. It just means be careful how much value you are putting in them.

[hab29RETIRED]

oh yeah - I remember reading that now. I thought it was reference to one of Boom Boom's descendents - I thought he also had a son or nephew that was drafted in the late70's or early 80's that was a bust.

Boom Boom's wife was Howie Morenz's daughter.

So Blake's granpa is Boom Boom, and his great Grandpa is MorDenz.

=========================================

I agree you have to be careful not to overrate blood lines, but that doesn't mean stay away from them completely either. It just means be careful how much value you are putting in them.

[Commandant]

Danny Geoffrion was a Nordique, Hab, and Jet during the 70s and 80s, but yeah, he sucked.

http://www.hockeydb....ay.php?pid=1883

[Blonde Demon]

I just feel that we should go BPA if we don't land a pick in the top 3...All of the other d-man rated around Reinhart are more offensive/smaller type d-man...We have enough of those in the pipe line..We need a Weber or a Pronger type, IMO...The kid is huge, mobil, tough, and can QB a PP with his big shot...

Yakupov is a winger, no thanks..Grigerenko is going 1st overall, IMO, and Galchenyuk may be gone by the time we pick..Forsberg is another option, but again, another winger..Its Reinhart then Gaunce for me if we pick below 5...

I see the draft going like this:

Grigerenko
Yakupov
Murray
Dumba
Forsberg
Galchenyuk (Habs MAY pick here, but I don't think we will end up this far down in the standings..)

Edited by Blonde Demon, 22 January 2012 - 10:58 PM.

[Commandant]

So if you had #2 overall, and Grigorenko went #1, you'd say no to Yakupov because he's a winger?

Habs might have some wingers in the system, but noone who has the elite potential of Yakupov. And the wingers are far less prolific than the D, even the D with size and toughness... Tinordi and Dietz are both very tough, and Beaulieu has shown to be an outstanding fighter.

I agree, I prefer Grigorenko, but if you can't get him, but can have Yakupov, you have to take him.