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Penalty-free Buyouts?


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#1 ForumGhost

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:00 AM

So a lot of people have been assuming there will be a penalty-free buyout period this summer in which we can get rid of Gomez's contract. But if this is the case, is it worth looking into other contract we might want to shed? Thankfully we are not stuck with many unfortunate contracts, but a lot of people would say Kaberle has got to go. Now, I want to go on record that I actually like Kaberle and even with his limited defensive capability, he can help a team more than he hurts it. 22 points in 41 games (for us) for a defenseman is not bad, especially on a team that has been downright aweful all season. However, I would probably buy him out given the chance due to the fact that our cupboards are stocked with high-end defensive prospects. I expect both Tinordi and Beaulieu will start in the AHL, but either or both could be called up relatively soon. Bealieu especially has been a beast this season and looked quite NHL-ready at camp this year. I doubt he has much to learn at the AHL level. Tinordi seems like he could use a bit more seasoning, but he is probably not too far behind. If we get rid of Kaberle, I think we have a back end that would hopefully feature Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz and a defensive-minded FA such as Allen, Sarich or Kuba (hopefully 1 year contract to make room for Beaulieu and Tinordi next year).
But if we have both Gomez's and Kaberle's money off the book, maybe we can throw the world at Suter and have a defense corps that would be absolutely sick...

Obviously, there is the question of Bourque's contract as well. Personally, I would like him to stay with the team for the time being. Even if he can't crack the top six due to his hot/cold play style, I would be happy with a 3rd liner who is a perennial 25+ goal-scorer. Even if he under-performs an gets 20, that's not terrible for 3.3 cap hit. But while I like him, shedding his contract could open up more space for something bigger.

So assuming we drop all three of these contracts, we would have some serious money to spend this summer.

Zach Parise
Ryan Suter
Ales Hemsky
Alex Semin


The question is whether Molson would part with his pocket change for the good of the team...

Thoughts?
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#2 saskhab

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:12 AM

A team is going to have bad contracts. I assume there would be a limit on the amount of contracts one could get rid of by this method... I'd actually hope it was only one. I think you can hide Bourque and Kaberle's deals a bit on a team, but Bourque's being four more years is quite annoying. Getting rid of Kaberle does allow the team to be more efficient, I don't like that we have Bourque over Cammalleri or Kostitsyn but I don't see how ditching him allows the team to be more efficient in spending, either.

Hemsky re-signed in Edmonton.
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#3 dlbalr

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:14 AM

I'd have to imagine that if there is one in the new CBA, it will be limited to just one much like the setup is in the NBA.
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#4 saskhab

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:24 AM

The more appropriate question might be if Kaberle is worth giving a regular course buyout too... I'd wait a year on that front, see if he can recover some of his value. But I think Diaz does a lot of what Kaberle can do for cheaper.

I'm wondering how much Barret Jackman might cost.
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#5 ForumGhost

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:31 AM

I'd have to imagine that if there is one in the new CBA, it will be limited to just one much like the setup is in the NBA.

Was it like that with the lockout?
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#6 ehjay

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:38 AM

I had heard a rumor that Gomer had refued a trade to the NYI at the deadline. Don`t know if this true but isn`t a ntc to be modified after a trade of player from the team with whom he had originaly signed with? Possibly even rendering the ntc null.
If so then wouldn`t gomer have to give a list of teams he would agree to a trade?
If this is the case then shouldn`t the Habs try to trade him and atleast get a bag of pucks to practice with?

As for getting Sutter, I would be all in. :pray:
Semin :1vomit: not so much as I am also hoping the Habs draft the best Center available.
I doubt Parise would sign here, unless our next coach is a Boudreau type and only preaches offence.
IMHO Parise is longing for days were he didn`t have as much defensive resposibilities, then again those days were long ago in a time when he was not in the NHL but I think that is what he will look for in a team should he not re-sign with NJ.
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#7 dlbalr

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:49 AM

Was it like that with the lockout?


I don't think so but with the general lack of enthusiasm this time for it from a lot of clubs, I think the bigger market teams with the financial wherewithal to buy out a player will be happy simply to get one as let's face it, their ability to do so does give them a bit of an extra competitive advantage.

I had heard a rumor that Gomer had refued a trade to the NYI at the deadline. Don`t know if this true but isn`t a ntc to be modified after a trade of player from the team with whom he had originaly signed with? Possibly even rendering the ntc null.
If so then wouldn`t gomer have to give a list of teams he would agree to a trade?
If this is the case then shouldn`t the Habs try to trade him and atleast get a bag of pucks to practice with?


I put no stock in the NYI reports which I believe were that he had vetoed an offseason trade near the end of June. No reputable source that I can recall had that, it was a Twitter report that just got a lot of attention. As for an NTC changing after a trade, it's a common misconception but they do not change solely on the trade itself. When a player 'waives' his NTC/NMC, he is merely saying he won't invoke it and not waiving the rights to it. In Gomez's case, based on the limited info I could get about his NTC, it's one where he can revise the list once a year (in the offseason). In quite a few cases though, the set list of __ teams is done then and there and that's it. If the player agrees not to invoke the clause and gets traded to a team on the no-trade list, he has one less team on his list.
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#8 Commandant

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:34 PM

Talk at the GM meetings last month was that the league was anticipating there would NOT be a penalty free buy out in this CBA nor a salary roll back so be careful how much of the 70 million dollar cap you spend this summer. As the new CBA could see a reduced cap and you won't be able to buy your way out of mistakes if you spend to the old limit. (Free Agency July 1st, Cap will be recalculated at 56% will be 69-71 million, September 15th new CBA, new cap... lower percentage brings it back down).

But we won't know for sure until negotiations are completed.
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#9 DON

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:54 PM

A team is going to have bad contracts. I assume there would be a limit on the amount of contracts one could get rid of by this method... I'd actually hope it was only one. I think you can hide Bourque and Kaberle's deals a bit on a team, but Bourque's being four more years is quite annoying. Getting rid of Kaberle does allow the team to be more efficient, I don't like that we have Bourque over Cammalleri or Kostitsyn but I don't see how ditching him allows the team to be more efficient in spending, either.

Hemsky re-signed in Edmonton.

Am a fan of Kaberle and Bourque and loved the upgrades from overpaid underachieving culls like Spacek and Cammalleri. Tis nice to have Bourque at a nice fairly low salary for 4 more years, a proven 27 goal big body who an skate ( at 1/2 the price of Cammalleri) and play the PK, sweet!
And Kaberle haas only put up points on a regular basis since coming over and also is signed to a fair salary for a 45-50 point puck moving d-man.

Why would anyone give Hemsky $5m/year is crazy? but good luck with him Oilers.

But i am curious what will be done with Gomer? He does throw a wrench into the teams ability to sign a Parise, or take on a Lecavalier's salary in a swap for Plekanec.
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#10 bbp

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:53 PM

Am a fan of Kaberle and Bourque and loved the upgrades from overpaid underachieving culls like Spacek and Cammalleri. Tis nice to have Bourque at a nice fairly low salary for 4 more years, a proven 27 goal big body who an skate ( at 1/2 the price of Cammalleri) and play the PK, sweet!
And Kaberle haas only put up points on a regular basis since coming over and also is signed to a fair salary for a 45-50 point puck moving d-man.

Why would anyone give Hemsky $5m/year is crazy? but good luck with him Oilers.

But i am curious what will be done with Gomer? He does throw a wrench into the teams ability to sign a Parise, or take on a Lecavalier's salary in a swap for Plekanec.


I agree in a way with Kaberle and Bourque, Kaberle's contract is fair for his point production and if he is paired with someone responsible then his defensive liabilities will be limited. My problem with Kaberle is that with him, Diaz, Weber, Campoli (I assume Weber and Camps will be gone though) plus Markov and PK thats a lot of puck movers. 3 is perfect but 4 isn't good imo, better to trade him for some strength and let Diaz get some more PP time.

On Bourque, I like his contract, but he will not put up 27 goals with us just like Cammy wasn't going to put up anything close to 40 with us. He will probs be a 20 goal scorer who we hate for his lazyness... but he is signed cheap for what his production will likely be, plus he can play the pk... which i think is weird for a lazy player haha.
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#11 Machine of Loving Grace

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:01 PM

On Bourque, I like his contract, but he will not put up 27 goals with us just like Cammy wasn't going to put up anything close to 40 with us. He will probs be a 20 goal scorer who we hate for his lazyness... but he is signed cheap for what his production will likely be, plus he can play the pk... which i think is weird for a lazy player haha.


A healthy Cammalleri on a healthy Habs team (or rather, healthy Cammy and healthy Markov) would have scored 40 or at least broke 30.

When he scored 39 on the Flames it was with 19 PPGs. All of his time on the Canadiens he scored 12 PPGs. He did better than that in his first full season in LA (15). Cammalleri needs the power play and it was likely a big reason he came to Montreal. While we still supported a good PP in his two full seasons with us, it wasn't the PP he expected when he signed with Montreal. Hell, he scored as many PPGs in the 09-10 playoffs that he did in the 09-10 season. That should say something.

I'm not saying the team should have been built around a one dimensional sniper but a healthy Markov would have made all of the difference in the world. Two of Markov's three PPAs in the 09-10 post-season were from Cammalleri goals. This teams entire offensive output goes down without Markov healthy in the lineup. The only player that matters more is Price.
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#12 DON

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

I agree in a way with Kaberle and Bourque, Kaberle's contract is fair for his point production and if he is paired with someone responsible then his defensive liabilities will be limited. My problem with Kaberle is that with him, Diaz, Weber, Campoli (I assume Weber and Camps will be gone though) plus Markov and PK thats a lot of puck movers. 3 is perfect but 4 isn't good imo, better to trade him for some strength and let Diaz get some more PP time.

On Bourque, I like his contract, but he will not put up 27 goals with us just like Cammy wasn't going to put up anything close to 40 with us. He will probs be a 20 goal scorer who we hate for his lazyness... but he is signed cheap for what his production will likely be, plus he can play the pk... which i think is weird for a lazy player haha.


Holy moly? i was expecting a much more negative response and i agree 100% with you. I was just a bit over the top on positives, however; i still totally disagree that these 2 contracts are much of a burden, unlike #11's.
And if they traded Kaberle tomorrow that is fine with me and maybe better; as he is very soft away from the puck, but experianced and super with the puck and wasnt that long ago that he was a much valued trade asset for Leafs and just had three 45+ point seasons before this one (but this year he was on 2 shitty weak offensive teams, so gets a pass).

So what is value of a defensively weak 45+point d-man i wonder?
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#13 Machine of Loving Grace

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

So what is value of a defensively weak 45+point d-man i wonder?


Not much. He is tradeable though. Defensively weak blueliners tend to go for nothing but they do go.
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#14 Trizzak

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

I had heard a rumor that Gomer had refued a trade to the NYI at the deadline. Don`t know if this true but isn`t a ntc to be modified after a trade of player from the team with whom he had originaly signed with? Possibly even rendering the ntc null.
If so then wouldn`t gomer have to give a list of teams he would agree to a trade?
If this is the case then shouldn`t the Habs try to trade him and atleast get a bag of pucks to practice with?

Earlier this year, Jeff Carter was traded before his NTC could take effect (The CBA says no NTC's until you're 27 (I think).

So because he was traded before his NTC was in place, Columbus had the opportunity to not pick up the NTC, and so that NTC no longer exists for the duration of Carter's contract.

Gomez's NTC (3 teams he lists as no-go's) was in effect when he was traded, so that NTC still exists on the contract.
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#15 ForumGhost

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:06 PM

I heard Detroit will be in the market for an offensive defenseman.
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#16 Commandant

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:16 PM

I heard Detroit will be in the market for an offensive defenseman.


yeah, they'll sign ryan suter.
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#17 bbp

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:33 PM

Yeah in all honesty who wouldn't sign with Detroit.. a chance for Suter to play with Lidstrom before he retires, I think thats pretty special.
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#18 ehjay

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:16 AM

I don't think so but with the general lack of enthusiasm this time for it from a lot of clubs, I think the bigger market teams with the financial wherewithal to buy out a player will be happy simply to get one as let's face it, their ability to do so does give them a bit of an extra competitive advantage.



I put no stock in the NYI reports which I believe were that he had vetoed an offseason trade near the end of June. No reputable source that I can recall had that, it was a Twitter report that just got a lot of attention. As for an NTC changing after a trade, it's a common misconception but they do not change solely on the trade itself. When a player 'waives' his NTC/NMC, he is merely saying he won't invoke it and not waiving the rights to it. In Gomez's case, based on the limited info I could get about his NTC, it's one where he can revise the list once a year (in the offseason). In quite a few cases though, the set list of __ teams is done then and there and that's it. If the player agrees not to invoke the clause and gets traded to a team on the no-trade list, he has one less team on his list.

Earlier this year, Jeff Carter was traded before his NTC could take effect (The CBA says no NTC's until you're 27 (I think).

So because he was traded before his NTC was in place, Columbus had the opportunity to not pick up the NTC, and so that NTC no longer exists for the duration of Carter's contract.

Gomez's NTC (3 teams he lists as no-go's) was in effect when he was traded, so that NTC still exists on the contract.


Thanks guys :)
I hope the Habs trade him, even if there is a penalty free buyout available to them. I would like to see what the Habs can get for him. I have a bet with a couple of guys that a bag of pucks could only come our way if it is a cap floor team to whom he gets traded.
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#19 ForumGhost

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:50 PM

Problem is we might have to give something away to persuade another team to take him.
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#20 ehjay

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:38 PM

Problem is we might have to give something away to persuade another team to take him.


IMHO the Habs have a few players that can interest other teams with cap hits that are low-ish. Bourque comes right to mind. Yes that is a 10 mil cap hit for two players but the pay out remains lower for the team so in the end it can work out. If a young player is demanded then it is a think well about it, but still the cap relief to the Habs of Gomez`s salary can go a long way in getting say a ( :pray: ) Suter or (enter name here) of a player you would think can get us our missing grail. Bcuz I still think the Habs need to draft the best Center available this year. I would love, love, love to see our top 4 dmen next year to be:
Markov + Emelin
Suter + Suban
Georges + ?
And with Diaz, Weber, Beaulieu and the rest of the Ds available to us there should be a hellava dog fight for the 6th and 7th D(og) on the line. Feel free to change up the pairings and it still looks :halm: :hyper: :bonk: :o :D :wub: :crazy: :1banana: :tigi:
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#21 Commandant

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:57 PM

Why does Suter sign with the Habs ahead of the other teams that will pursue him?
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#22 Trizzak

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:03 PM

Why does Suter sign with the Habs ahead of the other teams that will pursue him?

He really wants the pressure on him to speak french
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#23 bbp

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:41 PM

He really wants the pressure on himto speak french


hahahahhahah that was great Triz :P

+1 for sure
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#24 Kaboom

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:50 PM

Why does Suter sign with the Habs ahead of the other teams that will pursue him?

why won't he? maybe he wants to be a hab why make that comment?
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#25 Trizzak

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:56 AM

why won't he? maybe he wants to be a hab why make that comment?

I agree, actually. If the money is the same, maybe he actually would love to play in Montreal. It's way too pessimistic to assume every player doesn't want to play here.
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