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Serge Savard takes a permanent post in management.


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48 replies to this topic

#1 Commandant

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:58 PM

http://www.rds.ca/ca...ues/338264.html

Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations.

He'll be staying with the organization long term, no matter who is named GM.

This to me points to a sign that we might have a rookie GM here, as they are going to keep Savard around in a mentorship role.
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#2 bbp

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:08 PM

So... is the consensus that this hints towards Roy being hired in some role, or has Savard simply grown on Geoff now that they have been working together and Geoff thinks its just the right thing to do to keep him around?
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#3 The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:28 PM

First, this suggests to me that Savard is the new Bob Gainey: the permanent eminence grise who, while maybe not being the final decision-maker, will play a key role in the collective process going forward.

Second, as Commandant suggests, it must mean that they've determined that whoever they hire will NOT be someone with extensive senior managerial experience at the NHL level, and they want a mentor around. That makes sense to me, given that, while many of the names on the list are well-qualified, none have experience in the Big Chair at this level.

Third, it says that whoever we hire will have to be someone Serge Savard likes and feels he can work with, day in and day out. No longer is it a question of Serge 'advising' Molson. Now being 'Savard compatible' becomes crucial to the job description.

Does this give Roy the inside track? Considering that one of Serge's first public comments was to remind people about former players becoming GM without previous experience, as well as his belief in the importance of knowing what the Montreal market involves, and his loyalty to 'his' players who won Cups for him, I think that's a plausible speculation.

Incidentally: how come Carbo's name never comes up? Just asking.
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#4 bbp

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:45 PM

Incidentally: how come Carbo's name never comes up? Just asking.


You have mentioned Carbo's name a few times, but I think the ownership and organization is looking to go in a new direction. A lot of fans do not have the best memory of Carbo, if thats deserved or not is up for debate, but because he is fresh in the minds of fans he wouldn't be seen as a new face. For that reason I don't think he is being considered.

He is to tied to the recently let go Bob Gainey.
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#5 Commandant

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:57 PM

There are still too many core pieces of the team that quit on Carbo. Plekanec, Price, Gorges, Markov, these guys are all leaders of the current team who were part of that 2009 team that completely stopped listening to him. He lost that room, and the results of the west coast road trip were indicative of that, we weren't just losing, we were being embarrassed out there.

As long as our core still includes those guys, I don't see how Carbo can come back.
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#6 Kiwihab

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:04 PM

This makes me a little nervous. We just got rid of Gaithier and Gainey and it seems like we are creating the same situation again ie a GM with someone in the background pulling the strings. If the new GM is too inexperienced why not make Savard the GM and the new guy the Assistant GM? That way if things go wrong there is one guy responsible. This way, if things go wrong it raises the debate about who is really running the show. I know it's a bit pessimistic to worry about things going wrong at this point, but I'm not that comfortable with this.

(null)

Edited by Kiwihab, 08 April 2012 - 05:08 PM.

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#7 dlbalr

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:15 PM

He denied the rumour, here's hoping he's telling the truth. I'm not thrilled that he's helping in the GM search, to bring him on full time scares the living daylights out of me.
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#8 Davehab

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:18 PM

Savard doesnt want the title
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#9 BlueKross

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:36 AM

He denied the rumour, here's hoping he's telling the truth. I'm not thrilled that he's helping in the GM search, to bring him on full time scares the living daylights out of me.


Until the get this settled, I am going to be a little queezy; but it is more about sitting in no-man's land. I don't believe Savard could handle the rigours of the GM at his age. Secondly, I believe that as CC alluded to, that they would be following the structure of the previous administration. I believe that Bob created that second tier to alleviate the media obligation attached to being GM. As far as Savard is concerned, although his age may be a concern, I give him full marks for having the job previous, having time to reflect on maybe some of his mistakes. I believe some of his mistakes from last time were on the owner. I hope Mr. Molsen is done making hockey decisions. I would support a Savard hiring in the alleged position.
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#10 habs rule

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:13 AM

well according to the aged one (red fisher) whom i tend to disagree with, this is happening, and that Serge in all but name will be gm, Whoever he hires will report to him and he to Molson. according RF serge doesnt want all the travel etc tht goes with the job. So he will be the big giant head in Montreal. I think Molson wants more distance between him and the hockey operaions. Being directly involved means taking heat. Geoff don't like heat.
Serge Savard was a very good GM and firing him the first time was a colossul error that cost us big time see houle tremblay days known afectionately as the very dark ages. As to st pat well red does not tink that Serge would hire him. Too emotional and wants to go to new Quebec Franchise.
what a fun summer, a high draft pick an old out of date friend for gm and jack todd (the Goof) saying Carey is the problem.
yahoo
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#11 Machine of Loving Grace

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:27 AM

I'm not a particular fan of how fiercely francophone Serge is. Got a feeling that could cause issues with our drafting and signings.
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#12 JMMR

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

I'm not a particular fan of how fiercely francophone Serge is. Got a feeling that could cause issues with our drafting and signings.


That is a concern I share.
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#13 Commandant

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:40 AM

I don't mind Serge as an advisor, in the old Gainey role, but I don't want him as the GM or defacto GM.
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#14 dlbalr

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

That is a concern I share.


As do I. In general I question what his primary commitment would be - the increased 'francophonization' of the team or winning. His public statements in recent memory all suggest the former which, given the lack of Quebec-born NHL talent in the league at the moment, will almost assuredly lead to another step back.
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#15 Machine of Loving Grace

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:45 AM

I don't mind Serge as an advisor, in the old Gainey role, but I don't want him as the GM or defacto GM.


I don't want Serge tossing his pencil in the air again for disagreeing with a Timmins pick.

That said I'm sure we could draft Christophe Lalancette or Raph Bussieres in the third or fourth round and make him happy.
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#16 The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:15 PM

The issue with Savard, to my mind, is mainly that he's been out of the game for so long. While his experience would certainly be valuable in many respects, I don't think you can throw a 70-year-old GM into an NHL that has changed as much as it has since he was fired and expect great results. Serge as an advisor? Absolutely. Serge as the puppet master, pulling strings from the shadows? No merci.

Despite his musings about the importance of local talent, apart from the Chelios deal - widely reported to have been forced upon him by that jackass Corey - I can't think of an instance where he weakened the team in order to boost the francophone talent. Hell, he even traded sad clown Stephane Richer for Kirk Muller, who after Roy was our playoff MVP in 1993; not to mention fatally throwing in Desjardins in the disastrous Recchi deal. I'll grant that he drafted aggressively in Quebec (Alfie Turcotte anyone? How about Jose Charbonneau?), but this practice also bagged us Carbonneau, Roy and Desjardins, as well as valuable second-tier talent like Claude Lemieux, Patrice Brisebois and .Benoit Brunet. Savard's problems in drafting were not in any obvious or direct way related to a policy of favouring local boys. It went way deeper than that - although he *did* have some excellent draft years: e.g., 1984, 1986, 1987, 1993.

Now it may be that, in his years outside the game, he has become more sentimentally wedded to the idea of 'francisation' than he actually was as a GM. It is very easy for people to become romantic about their own past achievements: 'oh, in my day, we made sure we had French players...' In other words, he may have begun to believe his own self-aggrandizing media propaganda. If this is so, then I agree he could be very dangerous. I do think his history earns him the benefit of the doubt on this front, though.
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#17 Commandant

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:48 PM

Savard's biggest draft mistakes were in constantly going for Le Bouef de Ouest, not in going for local Quebec talent.

1st round picks he made before his firing in October 1995

1995 - Terry Ryan - Tri City WHL
1994 - Brad Brown - North Bay OHL
1993 - Saku Koivu - TPS Turku - Finnish Elite League
1992 - David Wilkie - Kamloops Blazers WHL
1991 - Brent Bilodeau - Seattle Thunderbirds WHL
1990 - Turner Stevenson - Seattle Thunderbirds WHL
1989 - Lindsay Vallis - Seattle Thunderbirds WHL
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#18 hankhab

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:37 PM

Savards regime didn't trade well, either, I'm sure I don't have to regurgitate the stinker trades he was responsible for, so, hopefully, he'll go with someone like Bergevin, or even Roy, but whoever, he's hoping he lets the new GM be the new GM.
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#19 sakiqc

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:41 PM

I really doubt the Senator is being brought in for input on hockey personel decision. It's obvious to say he's out of touch with the NHL. His value and still current expertise is in management and he will be key in the interview process. It's a wise move by Geoff Molson who is still relatively young, to hire someone like Serge Savard. There's probably no other person with a more impressive resume than Savard, both in NHL and business. He'll be an important voice in the recrutement process, providing good balance and analysis from a more experienced person. I really don't see this move as Savard taking the place of Gainey. Gainey was part of the day to day evaluation process and hockey decisions. Savard is outside that realm, and won't probably do more than making sure all the ingredients are appropriately put in place inside the organization.
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#20 habs rule

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:34 PM

well boys according to good old senile Red. Serge has to be in charge. doesn't like just offering advice, so worrying is in order. I want a decisive intelligent gm who is ready to make the tough decisions. oh by the way cc i think serge is only ONLY 66. I would suggest he remain in retirement. He had his run. By the way has this rumour even been confirmed by the habs? i see where he has taken the job but then everyone denies it????
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#21 Lovett's Magnatones

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:14 PM

I don't mind this. To me this is basically him doing the same job, they just gave him the title. Maybe it was a tax thing, like giving Ace Rothstein in "Casino" the title of Food and Beverage Director. I don't have any compunctions with Serge Savard being involved in the team. One thing he hinted at was perhaps St Patrick wants BOTH jobs. This may explain him taking on a increased role. I'm all for giving the keys to Roy, like the B's have done with Cam Neely.
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#22 Hab-Wrath

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:20 PM

Savard's biggest draft mistakes were in constantly going for Le Bouef de Ouest, not in going for local Quebec talent.

1st round picks he made before his firing in October 1995

1995 - Terry Ryan - Tri City WHL
1994 - Brad Brown - North Bay OHL
1993 - Saku Koivu - TPS Turku - Finnish Elite League
1992 - David Wilkie - Kamloops Blazers WHL
1991 - Brent Bilodeau - Seattle Thunderbirds WHL
1990 - Turner Stevenson - Seattle Thunderbirds WHL
1989 - Lindsay Vallis - Seattle Thunderbirds WHL


Oh my God thats a brutal drafting resume aside from Saku....BRUTAL!!!!
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#23 Machine of Loving Grace

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:36 PM

Best picks he may have missed in those years.

1989: Kevin Haller
1990: Brad May, Karl Dykhuis
1991: Glen Murray, Martin Rucinsky
1992: Valeri Bure (13 picks later.. who Montreal selected)
1993: Todd Bertuzzi, though Koivu was an excellent pick
1994: Dan Cloutier maybe?
1995: Jerome Iginla and Radek Dvorak

Drafting wasn't refined back then and quite a few players were chosen back then based only on stats and not on actual potential. Hence the string of Thunderbirds picks. Savard was clearly leaning on his WHL scout. Now, 1997 and 1998 in the Houle era was much worse. Jason Ward instead of Marian Hossa, Eric Chouinard instead of Simon Gagne were huge burns to the team that should have been obvious. Nothing was obvious to that terrible organization.

Savard's biggest draft mistake was his reluctance to draft Europeans. I don't think he had any scouts in Europe, or at least any good ones. In years like 1990 and 1991 they went round after round missing out on good European prospects until Oleg Petrov in the sixth round of 91. That said he also got lucky that year with Brian Savage in the eighth round.
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#24 The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

Oh my God thats a brutal drafting resume aside from Saku....BRUTAL!!!!


It's a brutal first-round resume, no question.But Savard's record at the draft table is actually better than people think (partly because many of them ended up blossoming elsewhere; I've boldfaced those). Here are some of his successful picks:

Patrick Roy
John LeClair
Eric Desjardins
Claude Lemieux

Sergio Momesso
Petr Svoboda
Stephane Richer
Shane Corson
Jirke Lumme
Lyle Odelein
Benoit Brunet
Andrew Cassels
Mathieu Schneider

Patrice Brisebois
Turner Stevenson
Craig Conroy
Valeri Bure
Craig Rivet
Saku Koivu
Rory Fitzpatrick
Stephane Robidas
Jose Theodore
Darcy Tucker

It's not a bad list at all if you ask me.
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#25 hab29RETIRED

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:54 PM

It's a brutal first-round resume, no question.But Savard's record at the draft table is actually better than people think (partly because many of them ended up blossoming elsewhere; I've boldfaced those). Here are some of his successful picks:

Patrick Roy
John LeClair
Eric Desjardins
Claude Lemieux

Sergio Momesso
Petr Svoboda
Stephane Richer
Shane Corson
Jirke Lumme
Lyle Odelein
Benoit Brunet
Andrew Cassels
Mathieu Schneider

Patrice Brisebois
Turner Stevenson
Craig Conroy
Valeri Bure
Craig Rivet
Saku Koivu
Rory Fitzpatrick
Stephane Robidas
Jose Theodore
Darcy Tucker

It's not a bad list at all if you ask me.

the sad thing is the return he got for the guys he traded - with the exception of Stephanie.
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