Jump to content


Welcome to HabsWorld!

Welcome to the HabsWorld Forums, a community for fans of the Montreal Canadiens.

Registration is free and only takes a moment to complete. New members are always welcome; join the discussion today! Click here to create your account.

Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Depressing. Cap space...


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 brobin

brobin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Markov, Subban, Pacs, Gally, Chucky, Price

Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

It is pretty depressing to see our cap space be lower then Pitts when they have the best two players in the league locked up and a real contending team. Worse, he haven't even signed PK yet, which will put us near the highest paid teams in the NHL while being one of the worst on the ice. All those deals where we picked up an expensive, but average player, or overpaid add up.

Granted, Gomez comes off the books next year but then the cap comes down.

This team may need a year or two more in the basement to build a pool of very good players, vs good players. More Galys...

We also need some tight fiscal management to ensure we have money when we really need it for the true push for the cup. I would avoid any long veteran contracts for a while if possible.

I fear we have been no better then Toronto... Wasting money thinking we are only a piece or two away...over estimating the core...

Anyway, I hope Bergevin can be patient and do a proper rebuild of the core... I am willing to suck a year or two if it gives us a real shot at a cup in 4 or 5 years...
  • 0

#2 sakiqc

sakiqc

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Owner
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5199 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Québec
  • Favourite Habs:Plekanec

Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

Look Brobin, 1 depressing new thread/day is enough. Please let us enjoy the start of the season after almost a year off hockey! :)


  • 1

#3 Colin

Colin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Lafleur, Robinson, Naslund, Roy, Koivu, Markov, Subban. (Price? Patches? Galchenyuk? Time will tell)

Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

It'll look slightly more rosy when Kaberle is bought out as well.  Between he and the Gominator there was over $11M locked up in useless contracts.  Put in a Subban at 4-5 (my guess) and you still have a $7M reduction.  I think (and I could very well be wrong) that it's not as bad as it seems because of the amnesty buyouts.  (Which, another of my guesses, Montreal specifically pushed for, and two of them, since they were going to be losing more money paying for the Phoenix's of the league etc.)


  • 0

#4 brobin

brobin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Markov, Subban, Pacs, Gally, Chucky, Price

Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

Oh I know we can get under the cap, but this is more a comment about the futility of the former approach. It was expensive and it didn't work. I would rather be on the Oilers trajectory, even if we have to eat more bad seasons.
  • 0

#5 Machine of Loving Grace

Machine of Loving Grace

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5677 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario
  • Favourite Habs:Bokondji Imama

Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

Eric Tangradi plays on Pittsburgh's top six.

 

There's your reason why their cap is so low.


  • 0

#6 The Chicoutimi Cucumber

The Chicoutimi Cucumber

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver
  • Favourite Habs:PK. Pleks. Gallagher. Price. All-time? SAINT PATRICK!!!!

Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

Well, we had to go the UFA route because Gainey Rebuild 1.0 failed to yield any core players, apart from Price and Pleks.

 

Gainey Rebuild 2.0, the UFA experiment, is now of course viewed as a bust, and it was unquestionably weak from a cap-management perspective; but it should be recalled that that team went to the Semi-Finals, almost beat the Bruins in '11, and probably would have been vastly better last season had Markov been healthy. If you looked at our stats for the first 2-3 months of last season, we were near the top in every category (even strength scoring, PK, shots against); it was the power play that killed us, game after game, until finally the whole thing melted down, Cammy rebelled, and the inevitable collapse occurred. So I dunno. I think that team had some good times and last year could have been radically different with better chemistry and a bit of luck.


  • 0

#7 Lovett's Magnatones

Lovett's Magnatones

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3080 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boynton Beach, Florida
  • Interests:Blues music, esp. vocals and harmonica. Teaching, watching the Habs.
  • Favourite Habs:Price, Prust, Pacioretty, Emelin

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

It is pretty depressing to see our cap space be lower then Pitts when they have the best two players in the league locked up and a real contending team. Worse, he haven't even signed PK yet, which will put us near the highest paid teams in the NHL while being one of the worst on the ice. All those deals where we picked up an expensive, but average player, or overpaid add up.

Granted, Gomez comes off the books next year but then the cap comes down.

This team may need a year or two more in the basement to build a pool of very good players, vs good players. More Galys...

We also need some tight fiscal management to ensure we have money when we really need it for the true push for the cup. I would avoid any long veteran contracts for a while if possible.

I fear we have been no better then Toronto... Wasting money thinking we are only a piece or two away...over estimating the core...

Anyway, I hope Bergevin can be patient and do a proper rebuild of the core... I am willing to suck a year or two if it gives us a real shot at a cup in 4 or 5 years...

Did you actually think these chumps were going to make the playoffs this year, sorry to sound negative but Gauthier and Gainey ****ed this team for at least three more years:
 

-Bad signings/trades (Bourque, Kaberle, Diaz, Gomez,  etc)

-Overestimating the core (Gionta, Cammalleri, Markov, Markov, Markov)

The bad news is that we have at least two years before we make the playoffs again.  The good news is that we are doing it the right way, we are done going the Calgary/Toronto route where we do anything to get that coveted 8th place spot.  This team has been terrible for twenty years, and we are finally on the right track.  Let the bangers and the young guys fill the seats, develop on our own time, and hope for better days.


  • 0

#8 Commandant

Commandant

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6564 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario
  • Favourite Habs:Carey Price

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

How is Diaz a bad signing?

 

A free asset on a cheap contract.


  • 0

#9 bbp

bbp

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2599 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Burnaby, BC, Canada
  • Favourite Habs:Max Pacioretty and Subban

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

Did you actually think these chumps were going to make the playoffs this year, sorry to sound negative but Gauthier and Gainey ****ed this team for at least three more years:
 

-Bad signings/trades (Bourque, Kaberle, Diaz, Gomez,  etc)

-Overestimating the core (Gionta, Cammalleri, Markov, Markov, Markov)

The bad news is that we have at least two years before we make the playoffs again.  The good news is that we are doing it the right way, we are done going the Calgary/Toronto route where we do anything to get that coveted 8th place spot.  This team has been terrible for twenty years, and we are finally on the right track.  Let the bangers and the young guys fill the seats, develop on our own time, and hope for better days.

 

Don't mean to nit pick here but how is Diaz a bad signing? Cheap, NHL serviceable, no assets lost.

 

Edit: I see commandant mentioned that too, I also don't know where this "Etc..." of bad signings are on the team.

 

I didn't like the way the team was run under them either, but this is quick to judge... Bourque deal hasn't been determined yet, I mean he came into a terrible year can't expect him to play 110%, so I wouldn't throw that in bad at this point.


  • 1

#10 brobin

brobin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Markov, Subban, Pacs, Gally, Chucky, Price

Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:31 PM

I view Bourque as "on probation". Didn't impress me last year but I will give him another year to show he is better then that.
  • 0

#11 JCPetit

JCPetit

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1589 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Quebec City
  • Favourite Habs:Alex Galchenyuck

Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

It's not that bad. We can buy another contract next year and there is also the possibility to trade one or two players down the road. That will be fixed.


  • 0

#12 Habsy

Habsy

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1792 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vaudreuil, QC
  • Favourite Habs:Carey Price, PK Subban

Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:25 PM

 
Don't mean to nit pick here but how is Diaz a bad signing? Cheap, NHL serviceable, no assets lost.
 
Edit: I see commandant mentioned that too, I also don't know where this "Etc..." of bad signings are on the team.
 
I didn't like the way the team was run under them either, but this is quick to judge... Bourque deal hasn't been determined yet, I mean he came into a terrible year can't expect him to play 110%, so I wouldn't throw that in bad at this point.

You made me laugh bbp...so true. People throw around etc's when they really aren't applicable. Kaberle is next to be bought out, if the team decides it's necessary. Not because he's not a serviceable player, but because his one dimensional play is a luxury the team might not be able to afford. Yes, we all know about the few assists per week he records.
  • 0

#13 brobin

brobin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Markov, Subban, Pacs, Gally, Chucky, Price

Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

IMO, it isn't easy, and maybe not possible under the cap system, to buy or trade for your core. I think you need to build through the draft now and rely on good trades and UFAs for secondary pieces.if we can snag some offensive juggernauts to go with the defensive prospects coming up, we can be a power house again.

We have the goalie, we drafted some good D, now we need to draft some more top forwards.

If you want to see what we can be in three years, watch a Blues game... Tarasanko looks bloody awesome.
  • 0

#14 bbp

bbp

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2599 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Burnaby, BC, Canada
  • Favourite Habs:Max Pacioretty and Subban

Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

IMO, it isn't easy, and maybe not possible under the cap system, to buy or trade for your core. I think you need to build through the draft now and rely on good trades and UFAs for secondary pieces.if we can snag some offensive juggernauts to go with the defensive prospects coming up, we can be a power house again.

We have the goalie, we drafted some good D, now we need to draft some more top forwards.

If you want to see what we can be in three years, watch a Blues game... Tarasanko looks bloody awesome.

I believe this is exactly what the management is doing. Only because it is montreal they need to ice a semi-competitive team just to keep their jobs. We have Price, we have d-men like Tinordi, Beau, PK, plus others, and beyond Max we have a nice young crop from the last draft in Gally(3rd overall), Hudon looks good, Collberg is starting to score overseas, and Gallagher has developed nicely as well. Along with Leblanc who I assume will be at least a serviceable 3rd liner if not 2nd line.

 

We aren't that far away from being competitive we just need to be good enough to keep guys like PK, Max, Price, and solid vets like Georges or Prust to stick around.


  • 0

#15 JMMR

JMMR

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12373 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kingston
  • Favourite Habs:Markov

Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:29 PM

Worrying about the cap is silly to me.

With the extra  buy out and the option to keep some salary I believe things will be fine.


  • 0

#16 brobin

brobin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Markov, Subban, Pacs, Gally, Chucky, Price

Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

I believe this is exactly what the management is doing. Only because it is montreal they need to ice a semi-competitive team just to keep their jobs. We have Price, we have d-men like Tinordi, Beau, PK, plus others, and beyond Max we have a nice young crop from the last draft in Gally(3rd overall), Hudon looks good, Collberg is starting to score overseas, and Gallagher has developed nicely as well. Along with Leblanc who I assume will be at least a serviceable 3rd liner if not 2nd line.
 
We aren't that far away from being competitive we just need to be good enough to keep guys like PK, Max, Price, and solid vets like Georges or Prust to stick around.


I agree in general, but while we have some good players coming up, I thing we need one or two great players. I am counting on Galy to be one, but I think we need one or two more to be an elite team.
  • 0

#17 Machine of Loving Grace

Machine of Loving Grace

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5677 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario
  • Favourite Habs:Bokondji Imama

Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

Worrying about the cap is silly to me.

 

CAP

 

SPACE

 

WINS

 

CUPS


  • 0

#18 Commandant

Commandant

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6564 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario
  • Favourite Habs:Carey Price

Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

CAP

 

SPACE

 

WINS

 

CUPS

 

We should manufacture CSWC bracelets and sell them to all the people throwing out their livestrong ones.


  • 0

#19 brobin

brobin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Markov, Subban, Pacs, Gally, Chucky, Price

Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

 
We should manufacture CSWC bracelets and sell them to all the people throwing out their livestrong ones.



Lol.
  • 0

#20 Colin

Colin

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourite Habs:Lafleur, Robinson, Naslund, Roy, Koivu, Markov, Subban. (Price? Patches? Galchenyuk? Time will tell)

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

We should manufacture CSWC bracelets and sell them to all the people throwing out their livestrong ones.

 

OR....

 

We could put a rolled up fiver in each bracelet along with HGH.  Score!


  • 0

#21 The Chicoutimi Cucumber

The Chicoutimi Cucumber

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver
  • Favourite Habs:PK. Pleks. Gallagher. Price. All-time? SAINT PATRICK!!!!

Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

I believe this is exactly what the management is doing. Only because it is montreal they need to ice a semi-competitive team just to keep their jobs. We have Price, we have d-men like Tinordi, Beau, PK, plus others, and beyond Max we have a nice young crop from the last draft in Gally(3rd overall), Hudon looks good, Collberg is starting to score overseas, and Gallagher has developed nicely as well. Along with Leblanc who I assume will be at least a serviceable 3rd liner if not 2nd line.

 

We aren't that far away from being competitive we just need to be good enough to keep guys like PK, Max, Price, and solid vets like Georges or Prust to stick around.

 

Management has been pretty explicit about this, if you look at interviews.

 

I always thought the UFA Rebuild was intended as a place-holder anyway, buying time until the next generation could come up. It worked for two seasons, and if Markov hadn't been hurt and Goat had made some better decisions, it might conceivably have worked for a third.

 

I agree that cap space is overrated. Yes, you want to manage it wisely, and the new CBA justifies some caution until the dust has settled and the parameters become clear. But under the old deal, the cap rose every year, and despite this fans went kaka-kookoo with rage over practically every signing the Habs made (e.g., Cole). We never really were crippled by cap management despite a fair degree of incompetence. Our REAL problem was the lack of young players after the initial wave (Higgins, Komi, Fatendresse, etc.) petered out.


  • 0

#22 Zowpeb

Zowpeb

    NHL Stanley Cup

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1040 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada, Earth, Milky Way
  • Interests:Hockey: Habs<br />Baseball: Blue Jays<br />Football: J E T S<br />Basketball: Raptors<br />Soccer: Arsenal

Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

I agree in general, but while we have some good players coming up, I thing we need one or two great players. I am counting on Galy to be one, but I think we need one or two more to be an elite team.


This is why I want the Habs to rip the band aids off fast. Trade Gionta and Cole for draft picks. Maybe one of Eller or DD. Buy out Kaberle. Hopefully get Subban signed at a reasonable deal. Doing this stuff will see, what I think is probably a lottery team already, crumble to pick in the 3-7 range. Use the new picks to be in the top 3 already if you aren't. If you are then package some of them to try and get another top 10 pick. Go into the off-season with huge cap room and knowing you have 2-3 recent top draft picks in your top 2-3 lines...UFA's next year include Getzlaf/Perry/Iginla/Clowe/Horton/Hartnell/Edler/Smid/Enstrom.
  • 0

#23 The Chicoutimi Cucumber

The Chicoutimi Cucumber

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver
  • Favourite Habs:PK. Pleks. Gallagher. Price. All-time? SAINT PATRICK!!!!

Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

This is why I want the Habs to rip the band aids off fast. Trade Gionta and Cole for draft picks. Maybe one of Eller or DD. Buy out Kaberle. Hopefully get Subban signed at a reasonable deal. Doing this stuff will see, what I think is probably a lottery team already, crumble to pick in the 3-7 range. Use the new picks to be in the top 3 already if you aren't. If you are then package some of them to try and get another top 10 pick. Go into the off-season with huge cap room and knowing you have 2-3 recent top draft picks in your top 2-3 lines...UFA's next year include Getzlaf/Perry/Iginla/Clowe/Horton/Hartnell/Edler/Smid/Enstrom.

 

IF those guys don't get signed by their teams first. And it won't be long until you're arguing that we should get rid of whichever massively overpaid UFA we do eventually sign. Bird in the hand, my friend.


  • 0

#24 dlbalr

dlbalr

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 17062 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:30 AM

IF those guys don't get signed by their teams first. And it won't be long until you're arguing that we should get rid of whichever massively overpaid UFA we do eventually sign. Bird in the hand, my friend.

 

Of that list, Enstrom was already extended (5 years, $5.75M per) as was Hartnell (6 years, $4.75M per) and Edler just recently (6 years, $5M per).


  • 0

#25 Commandant

Commandant

    NHL Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6564 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario
  • Favourite Habs:Carey Price

Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

This is why I want the Habs to rip the band aids off fast. Trade Gionta and Cole for draft picks. Maybe one of Eller or DD. Buy out Kaberle. Hopefully get Subban signed at a reasonable deal. Doing this stuff will see, what I think is probably a lottery team already, crumble to pick in the 3-7 range. Use the new picks to be in the top 3 already if you aren't. If you are then package some of them to try and get another top 10 pick. Go into the off-season with huge cap room and knowing you have 2-3 recent top draft picks in your top 2-3 lines...UFA's next year include Getzlaf/Perry/Iginla/Clowe/Horton/Hartnell/Edler/Smid/Enstrom.

 

Oh look, I think you would be a great customer for the CSWC bracelets.


  • 0