Sir_Boagalott

Wow, Harris is skating again:

Yep, their D still needs work but their top line is on fire offensively. I'm sure Marty was mad at Arber after the 1 goal where he sorta pinched near the Habs blue line and Zebenajad got by him creating a 2 on 1 and he passed over for a Rags goal. Which Habs dman slid on the 1 Rags goal? I'm not sure if he was even looking at the Rags player with the puck as he slid. Plus, he should have been on his side vs face down. Then, he might have been able to see and stop the pass to Krieder. I was surprised the Habs goal challenge failed. It seemed like Krieder was hugging the 1 post and was in Monty's way. My feed was acting up and I swear I saw Gignac score and it was called off but I didn't fully see the goal or why it didn't count.

He's making progress anyway. I read several months ago that Dach's projected return date would be in the 3rd round if they made it that far. At best he might have been able to return for the 2nd round. Apparently, with that specific injury it isn't good to return too quickly. Players often feel like they are able to return but often end up with a hip or groin injury because they are over compensating from the original injury. It makes sense to keep him out until he's absolutely 100% ready.

I didn't watch the game but saw the highlights. Slaf is on fire!! Awesome that Primeau got a shutout. Congrats to Gignac on his 1st goal. He roofed that shot well - it was just under the crossbar from up close. I thought the same in regards to turning point with injuries back when Andy fell awkwardly and played in the next game.

Interesting that Lindros was traded for Forsberg straight up. I would have thought the deal included Ricci, 2 1st rnd picks, $15 mil in cash, + numerous other players. Yes, if you pick 1st you take Celebrini because he is the consensus 1st over all pick. However, thats irrelevant to my original point. I'm surprised that there are 2 players that being compared to a 1st over all pick (Lindros), and a 2nd over-all that should have been a 1st over-all (Pronger) and that the #1 is so much further ahead of them and that neither of them are locks in the top 3 of this draft.

I'm not questioning that Celebrini is #1, I'm surprised he's ranked so much further ahead than 2 players that are being compared to be the next Pronger/Chara and Lindros. I'm not making any comparisons at all, I'm simply repeating what I've heard other people say about them. Who is the Russian F in the top 5 by most scouts being compared to? Is he touted as the next Bure or Datsyuk? Is Helenius being touted as the next Selanne? It seems odd to me that Silayev and Lindstrom aren't ranked higher and locks in the top 3.

I know he is a lock at 1st so I realize he must be the #1 guy. My point is that is surprising when Silayev will be a beast and Lindstrom is being compared to Lindros. In other draft years it seems like both of those guys could easily be 1st over all picks. It doesn't seem plausible that a Chara/Pronger hybrid and a Lindros aren't considered a consensus top 3 picks. It's seems unreal that somebody is higher than them, so Celebrini must be insanely good or the scouts are all wrong - which is unlikely.

Thats exactly why I think Guhle could be traded. Any d-man picked in the top 10 would likely be as good as Guhle if not better. Silayev will likely go top 3. I've heard him described as a cross between Chara and Pronger. Personally, I want Lindstrom though. I've heard him being compared with Lindros. I don't know a ton about Celebrini because its unlikely the Habs will get him but I find it hard to believe that he's the consensus for the 1st over all pick. It seems there would be a good chance that Silayev and Lindstrom could have better careers. I get the same impression with Tiggy being a dark horse and I think he'll be better than numerous forwards that are ranked higher than him.

IMHO, one of the Habs problems this year is that we don't hear them doing a specific play enough. i.e. stretch pass. ex: that was a great stretch pass by RHP to spring Newhook. They should be doing that numerous times/game. The good news is that they have numerous prospects that are great at stretch passes that aren't on the Habs yet. ex: Hutson, Reinbacher, Mailloux.

Thats a non-sequitor to what I said. I made no compassion of Florian to Messier et el. I pointed out there are 2 types of goals and I cited numerous of the best for each. I did clearly say that those players are more skilled than Florian. I never implied Florian will be an elite 40g 80 pts 1st liner either. I pointed out that Florian will score a lot of goals the 2nd way. It doesn't take a high level of skill to slide the puck 4 feet along the ice into an open net. Not to mention, in games where a goalie is super hot and you can't buy a goal; its the 2nd type of goal that wins those games.

That really isn't the deciding factor. That implies it is impossible for their to be late bloomers. Also, like I mentioned - the entire world shutdown. Look at Wilson and Andy's stats: The yellow line likely depicts when they were 190 lbs. i.e. Anderson was likely always a rather large, even when he was 10 or under. Look at their goals in their final Jr year and compare it to their NHL avg. Their g/yr in the NHL are effectively the same #'s. Besides, the Xhekaj's both have that fire in their eyes similar to the Rocket. There is no way Arber is 6th-7th damn and Florian but a 4th liner. No comparisons of players were made, just players pointed out that broke the stated pre-requisites. i.e. I never said Florian will be an elite 1st liner.

I acknowledge that there are 2 types of goals: clean pretty easy goals dirty ugly hard goals Kings of 1: Gretzky, McDavid, Bedard, Stamkos, etc ex: player skates over blue line and rips a wrister that handcuffs the goalie and scores in top corner. i.e. those players have elite skills. They are primarily perimeter players vs around the crease. Kings of 2: Messier, Perry, Tkachuks, etc. A player doesn't need to have elite skill to put up a lot of points as long as they have size, strength, and balls to play in the tough areas. The areas where the player pays a price to score goals. ex: think of all the times Gally scored and then got knocked on his ass afterwards. In those scenarios, if Florian gets 220 lbs he'll have the size and strength to still be on his feet - the dman hitting him might fall over. @tomh009 joked about OV being the best scorer because he scored into a 1/2 open net from 10' out. Florian will live in those areas and have a ton of similar chances that he'll score way more than other players with a similar level of skill. A player doesn't need to have a great shot to score into half open net from a short distance. What they need is the size, grit and the balls to constantly be in those areas. Florian has those qualities in spades. The Xhekaj's also have a crazy work ethic - both of their parents are refugees; they've never been given anything and worked hard to get everything they have. There are coaches for shooting, skating, etc; so they'll both continue to get better. Florian doesnt have the same skill level as the Kings of #2 but Wilson and even Anderson are similar size, strength, toughness and grit, and skill. They get 20+ g/yr. Ryan Smyth was 6'2" and 192 lbs so he lacked strength but he's another good example of a player scoring a lot of goals using tenacity.

There are numerous examples of players that are outside of your time frame of what you say *must* happen by a certain age or there is no chance of it happening. It is not unprecedented for a player to take longer and become a 30 g scorer in the NHL. ex: how old was Ryder when he broke into the NHL and was runner up for rookie of the year? He's a 2 time 30 g scorer and got 35 once, 27 twice and 25 once. No clue why you insist that its only about how good a player can shoot, skate and pass at their draft year. Its not like those things aren't practicable and people can't improve on those with time. The Habs should fire their Growth Coach because Cole hasn't grown 4", they need a new Toughness & Grit Coach too because Cole isn't a net hound like Gally. I'm pretty sure Florian will be better than a 4th liner because he's high in 3 attributes that are vastly important and they happen to be unteachable traits. Hence why those characteristics are highly desirable and more important than other skills that have coaches.

That is a good example. No clue why he keeps mentioning age and # of years in Jr in the CHL as being a prerequisite for becoming a decent NHLer. I was thinking Cale Makar who got 28 g and afaik he didn't even play in the CHL but a Provincial league. I suppose he thinks that Marty is a bottom 6 plug of a hack? He doesn't meet any of his age pre-requisites and he didn't play in the Q and definitely had 30+ g/yr. I agree with your comment of late bloomer, and I believe there is more too it than that. What is unprecedented is the fact the entire world shut down for the Covid lockout. A bunch of young players lost precious time during their critical development years. i.e. there are likely numerous young players that diamonds in the rough that might have become NHLers but were robbed of their chance due to the lockout.

That is irrelevant and I never gave it a time frame of when he'll possible out up those #'s. The average NHL size is 6' 196 lbs. Florian is 6'4" 190lbs and if he gets to 220 lbs he will have a 4" height advantage and 25lbs weight advantage on a ton of players. The guys that are 5'-10" 180 lbs it would be up 6" and 40 lbs. He'll be much larger than most players in the NHL, and will push around quite a few of the guys that are the same size as him. Believe me you, Florian is still small for his height. ex: Lindstrom is 6'4" 215 lbs - he's younger and already has 25 lbs on Florian. Florian will definitely be a pest but how exactly does that relate to points and what line they play on? Both Tkachuk's are pests and 1st liners, as is Marchand. I'll be absolutely shocked if he turns out to be just a 4th liner. There is no bloody way he's on par with Pezzetta, etc. He has more skill than that, and he's high in the traits you say are completely unimportant, such as: more size, strength, toughness, and crazy work ethic and will continue to learn and get better. The comparison to Dach is they were both tall scrawny bean poles. Dach struggled because he was tall and had a high center of gravity and was too weak so he was easily pushed around. The stronger they get the more they can do physically. Gaining the muscle definitely helped Dach's style of play, but it will continue to vastly improve Florian's game. IMHO Tom Wilson would be a decent comparable and he gets 20 g/yr and also isn't a 4th liner. I tend to think Florian will at least be as good but I expect he'll better than him. They will be the same height and weight, but Florian is more skilled, has more balls, and relentless truculence.

I absolutely agree and just wait until Florian is ready. He'll likely end up being better than Andy and will be more similar to Brady but he doesn't have the same skill so he'll get less points. I think Florian could potentially get 25-30 g/yr and 50-65 pts/yr. I made a comparison in the off season with Florian and Dach due to height and weight and I predicted Florian's stats would jump right up and he'd get close to 30 g this year now that he's 190+ lbs. HW's top pro scout said that was stupid because Florian had barely got a dozen goals so that would never happen. Notice that Florian is on pace for 27 g this year which is over double what he got the previous year. Note: the red line depicts the before and after they got over 190 lbs. See, Dach wasn't able to get a lot of points in the OHL either until he became 195 lbs. i.e. they were both 6'-4" bean poles that were weak. Just wait until Florian is 215+ lbs and see what #'s he puts up. I'm quite certain that Florian's stats will keep increasing as he continues to add muscle.

It definitely can be comparable. The comparison is Chelios was 1 the toughest d-men in the NHL and that trade didn't work out well for them. Not to mention Chelios played into his mid 40's. Besides, what Habs fan doesn't regret trading Chelios? The identical regret would almost be guaranteed if they dumped WiFi. IMHO, the best comparison of skill and size for WiFi would be Byfuglien who averaged around 15-20 g/yr and Arber might eventually be able to get 10-15 g/yr. If Arber got PP time out front of the other teams net he could possibly match Buf's output. Note: in Buf's 5th season he got 11 g in 22 playoff games. No clue why people want to trade WiFi and risk watching similar happen with him playing on a team other than the Habs.

Yep, great stuff from Slaf, I'm happy he had his 1st multi goal game. Nick has a 10 game point streak going, thats the longest since Domi. I have seen rumours that Marty might not appreciate large physical players like WiFi and if that is true in time I could see that eventually leading to him being fired. The Habs are definitely sticking with Arber. The Habs drafted Florian and in the top of the 4th rnd because they didn't' want to risk another team taking him when he should have went at the bottom of the 4th rnd. If they didn't like Arber it would be silly for them to guarantee that they end up with his lil brother. i.e Hughes likes Arber so much he made damn sure that he got Florian too. Drafting Florian like that was a brilliant move because they ended up with Bogdan too. At 1 draft in the 4th rnd the Habs likely drafted 2 decent NHL players. Both of them are steals and will probably be home run picks if not grand slams.

Yes, only Guhle is a legit top 4 hence that is why he could possibly be moved. ex: if you were a GM and had Cole, would you trade him for possibly maybe top 4 dman like Harris? Of course not, there is no way anyone would do that. Therefore, for the Habs to trade for a top 6 F they'd need to give up a top 4 dman. The only dman that fits that which other GMs would likely accept would be Guhle. I agree on all your examples of bad dmen trades and Chelios is the best example of why I wouldn't trade Arber. If Lindstrom is taken at the draft before the Habs pick they could potentially afford to trade Guhle during the draft for a F. As long as they get a guaranteed 30+ goal scorer with potential for 40+ g/yr/ it would make sense. If they did that they could draft a dman at the draft that who would likely be a top 4 dman.

Yes, no doubt. I don't get when people suggest they should trade him. IMHO his ceiling could be the highest of any of their young dmen. He has great size, toughness + grit, and he has the work ethic where he keeps practicing and improving. For those reasons I think it would be insane to move him. He definitely shows flashes of more and his penalties should improve with experience along with the rest of his play, such as being on the PP. I still want to see him used on the PP how Byfuglien was used. i.e. put him out front of the other teams net - lest see them try to deal with him.

I agree that Harris might be the lesser skilled of all the Habs young d prospects. Hopefully, he improves with experience and cuts down on his penalties and make less mistakes. However, his big positive is he can play both sides so that could be a good reason to keep him as the 7th dman. He's also unlikely to have a high contract ask.

Ya, big no on Zegras for Guhle because he's a) sorta small, and b) not a proven 30+ goal scorer - though he might eventually turn into one. Plus, the players recently did a poll and Zegras came in 1st for the most overrated player. I'm not 100% opposed to getting Zegras, but the Ducks want to dump him so I wouldn't over pay for him similar to what Hughes did with Newhook. I'd be trying somewhat lowball offers and see if any stick. ex: Zegras went 1st rnd at 9th , so I'd offer a 1st thats 20th+ and possibly add a mid range F in Laval, and I'm not sure if I'd even add a prospect to sweeten the deal. Most trade rumours I've seen for Zegras have been nutty. ex: a top 10 unprotected 1st + Harris + mid level F in Laval. That would be an over payment to do the Ducks a favour taking him off their hands. I should have said at the draft too. ex: if Lindstrom is taken by the time the Habs pick, Hughes could have a potential trade lined up with Guhle to get an established young F that scores a minimum of 30 g/yr with potential to hit 40g+ and then he could draft a dman that would be on par with Guhle and possibly better.

I'm not overly concerned about trading the wrong d-man - unless its WiFi that is moved. I think it is more important that whoever they get must be better than what they give up. As long as they end up with a player that vastly improves the team whichever dman is moved doesn't really matter. hypothetical example: I'm not suggesting they should shop Guhle, but if he is highly sought after by the other GM's and could land the Habs a 30-40 g scorer that gets 70+ pts/yr - they have enough solid d prospects they could absorb losing Guhle. Plus, if they traded Guhle before the draft they could pick 1 of the d-men that in the top 10 of this years draft and 2-3 years from now it is unlikely that we would regret moving Guhle no matter what his ceiling turns out to be. They have so many prospects they could do similar with 1st rnd picks and trade all of them that are outside of the Top 10 in the next 2 drafts as long as they get a 40 g scorer that they have for 7 years it would be worth it.

1 trade or a big UFA singing could nab a scorer the Habs desperately need. Being weak down the middle is actually another plus of the trade. Without Monahan they will likely lose more and drop in the standings which will get them a higher pick. As much as I wanted them to come close to making the playoffs, at this point I'd rather see them drop right off. I so want them to get Lindstrom at the draft and they will probably need to be 4th or 5th to get him. I hate to say it but the Habs are lucky that Pinto is back with the Sens so they might pass the Habs in the standings. I certainly don't want the Sens having a chance at Lindstrom. It would be incredibly bad if the Sens end up with him. I fully agree. Monahan can be described as Swiss Army knife. The 3rd rnd pick should be guaranteed with a condition that it gets upgraded to a 2nd if the Jets win the Cup.

From Conroy's comments it sounds like they totally intend to keep Kuzmenko at least until next years trade deadline. After all, Kuzmenko did score 39 goals last year. Not sure what Tochets issue was with him but he might very well score close to the same amount as Lindholm, and possibly more. With what the Nucks gave up I'm surprised that they didn't have the Flames retain salary so they could do more moves.