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Everything posted by Wamsley01

  1. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2011/7/19/2284054/2010-11-season-advance-stat-recap-part-2-defensemen-at-even-strength I know not everybody buys into the "advanced stats" but this is a strong statement for the defense that Gauthier brought back. Just another reason why I am not worried about the D.
  2. I think he has taken calculated risks. Hammer would have been nice, but my guess is the second year was a no go. For me, all the Habs need to do if Emelin, Weber AND Diaz all falter is piece together 35-40 games from Gill and 35-40 games from Spacek. They both can excel for short term stretches in the top 4. The whole thing blows up in their face if Markov/Subban get hurt, but that is always the risk of a physical game like hockey. I would love a Big 3, but probably not realistic anymore.
  3. Komisarek is a disaster in Toronto and he is in his PRIME now. The point is almost to a man this board expected Subban to apprentice with easy minutes as the 6th defenseman last summer and now everybody has him penciled in as a perennial all-star. 80% of people thought Price would implode last season and the Canadiens were screwed without Halak. Two seasons ago coming off a 39 point year everybody had written of Plekanec as a 2nd line center at best and was the primary reason why the Habs acquired Gomez. Everybody is a genius in hindsight. Gauthier has made some bold moves that the majority on this board would NOT have made because he is paid to anticipate the future not analyze what is in front of our face today, but to make decisions for what will be in our face tomorrow. So outside of those who thought Subban would be the number one defenseman come the playoffs and Carey Price would win 25 games more than the season before, raise your hand. So I don't think it is rationale to complain about investing in young players when it has been so successful for this team over the last 2-3 seasons. This is not a Maple Leaf situation where everything needs to fall in place for a run at the playoffs. That was the 2002-2007 Habs. The Habs now have Cup winning veterans to help these young players ease into the NHL and provide a strong learning environment. Diaz and Emelin are sight unseen and Weber has barely played. Many are choosing the "I haven't seen him, what if he sucks" mentality, I choose the "I haven't seen him, I trust Gauthier and Timmins and the system mentality". There are failsafes should all of them falter (ie. Wiz, Mara somebody else). So why worry about it?
  4. Was Komisarek a top 4? He sure as hell looked like one when paired with Markov every night. Komisarek made a career of giving Markov harder minutes by cycling it into his corner and having him deal with pressure and transition. Gorges said as much last season when asked what it is like playing with Markov. He joked that he tosses it into his corner and he does the rest. I know people believe that Wiz replaced Markov, but in reality it was a combo of Wiz/Hamrlik that patched the wound. Place a competent defenseman beside Markov or Subban and they can handle the workload. Hamrlik is a LEGIT top 4 with any partner, unfortunately he is getting older and breaks down if placed under that workload now. Would Hammer have been a better player to retain? Depends, do you value Gill's PK ability more than the possibility that Hammer has to play top 4 minutes. Do you value the player who will take the one year deal in contrast to the player who takes the 2 year deal. This is not black and white. I don't know if it was the extra year, I don't know if they valued Gill's ability to mentor and PK ability. All I know is that there is a lot of complaining about the defensive depth based on assumptions of the skill level of players 99% of us have not seen play. Emelin, Diaz and Weber offer three intriguing options. I will wait to see how they progress and if they are poor, I trust Gauthier to bridge the gap like a competent GM should. The fact that the biggest complaint on this board seems to be how crappy and unreliable our 8th defenseman may be is a testament to how this team has improved.
  5. Once again these are all assumptions based on limited information. Maybe in retrospect you will be correct, but maybe Timmins, Gauthier, Gainey etc. have assessed Emelin at a different level than you perceive he can play. Maybe they are right, maybe you are right. I don't understand the negativity. You keep saying things like "Spacek playing significant minutes". If the top 4 is Markov, Subban, Gill and Gorges, why would Spacek have to play significant minutes? You're continuous argument seems to flow around the "inevitable" injury problems that will arise and the assumption that Emelin and Weber are going to be stiffs. Like I said in the other thread, what would you have assessed the Bruins chances at a Cup last September? Chara and junk? No scoring, etc. Let's give these guys a chance to see what they can accomplish before condemning them as injury prone and useless rookies.
  6. I also think that opinion was skewed because he was consistently forced into a role he was not suited for. With Markov missing so many games, he was playing above his role. That lead to breakdowns. He did a pretty good job considering. I wanted him back, but understand why they didn't give him 2 seasons.
  7. Be happy CC Trust has to be earned, so that is understandable. They will be fine barring a Markov/Subban injury. A good system can survive injuries. Also, guys like Mara can be acquired for nothing during the season from teams who realize they are not playoff bound. Why does it have to be extremes? There is more than two options here. 1. Subban is for real and Markov bounces back. Emelin establishes himself as a solid 4-6 and the Habs are an elite team. 2. Markov and Gorges get hurt again. Emelin is overrated and in Russia by February and Martin overuses Subban and we suck. The likely scenario lies in the middle. Emelin is for real and Markov misses 15 games OR Markov is back healthy and Subban regresses a little and Emelin is solid etc et.
  8. The Habs owned the Whalers. I understand what C.C is saying though. I f@#king hated "Brass Bonanza" that they played every time they scored a home goal and the Habs had home ice EVERY series and only once did they smoke them. Even in 1988 they were up 3-0 and they had to go into Hartford to win Game 6. While in Hartford the Habs never lost (although there were two 7 game OT's against the Mighty Whale). 1986 Habs won 4-3 (OT) 1988 Habs won 4-2 1989 Habs won 4-0 1992 Habs won 4-3 (2 OT) Since they have moved to Carolina they flipped the script.
  9. Andy "F@$king" Moog!! He knocked the Habs out of the playoffs in 1981 1990 1991 1992 The only time the Habs knocked out a Moog team was in 1989 and Lemelin was the starter for the majority of that series. He also crapped the bed FOR the Habs against the Sabres.
  10. Yes, but pre-1993 nobody saw Brunet evolving into that type of player. He had 231 points in 175 AHL games with Sherbrooke. He was viewed as a scorer, yet he pulled a Carbo and evolved into a solid shutdown player over his career. What all of us are projecting out is inconsistent with how we will view things in April, guaranteed because with young players it happens every season. That wasn't Bergeron's expected trajectory at the beginning of his career either. Eller could easily become that guy, Plekanec is already a solid defensive center who can play tough minutes and still contribute offensively. The types of players that people are stressing over are available at the deadline every season for an affordable price.
  11. The Canadiens are proof that rookies can make an impact on the 3rd and 4th lines and score big Cup/Playoff goals. Claude Lemieux, Stephane Richer, John Leclair, Paul Dipietro, Gilbert Dionne and even Brisebois all had big moments during their rookie seasons. I seem to recall a rookie named Skrudland scoring 9 seconds into OT in a Cup Final game. Even guys like Dave Maley and Steve Rooney provided big moments for the Habs in 1986. Eric Desjardins was a solid contributor to the 1989 Cup run, as was Mike Keane and Brent Gilchrist. Solid young compliments to the veteran core. (That doesn't even bring up the sophomore's or young players like Odelein, Schneider, Ronan, Lebeau or Belanger who made contributions). You are viewing things through the benefit of hindsight. Before the Hawks Cup run, Bolland was not viewed like he is now, nor were Peverley or Kelly 3 months ago. Who the hell could have predicted Paul Dipietro's 13 points in 17 games in 1993? I don't understand the rejection of letting cheap young players make a difference and apprentice on the lower lines. Especially from CC who has witnessed the Canadiens use this type of process during their 15 year run from the early 80's to mid 90's to great success. I can imagine the pre-1993 training camp having the same conversation. I am fine with the way this team is setup. They have a strong veteran leadership core and some elite prospects mixed in with some high upside 3rd and 4th liners. Looks like a 1993/1986 blueprint to me.
  12. That is a stereotypical view of what a 3rd/4th line player is though. The defending Stanley Cup Champion Bruins were not full of low level fighters/grinders. Their 3rd line winger was Recchi or Ryder. Outside of Thornton their bottom lines were filled with guys like Rich Peverley, Danielle Paille and Chris Kelly. Do any of these guys hit hard or drop the gloves? Physical play is one factor, but so is puck possession, the ability to cause offensive zone pressure defensive responsibility etc. Guys like Eller, Kostitsyn, Desharnais, Darche can be valuable 3rd/4th line guys. They don't need bangers to be successful.
  13. What movie of "rookie disappointment" are you referring too? I have seen quite the opposite. It is about expectation level and perspective. What is a 4th liners expectation level to you? You use Eller as an example, but can we say Eller was a terrible 3rd or 4th liner in 2011? Can we say that Desharnais was a poor 3rd or 4th line performer? How much of this viewpoint is skewed by a terrible decade in which we put our hopes on prospects who were A. not elite or B. put in positions where they could not succeed. Was Plekanec a disappointment in 2006? Was Higgins poor before he was placed on the 1st line that season? What about Kostitsyn in 2008? Players like Subban are the exception. They generally come up and are handed offensive zone starts, easy competition and eased into the NHL. Exactly what we are looking for this season from a player like Emelin. We are likely going to see the season start with him getting 14 minutes a game and eased in. I don't understand what you think are reliable minutes? Last season had the Habs using all types of players to plug holes. Subban had to replace Markov. Eller was moved up and down the lineup. Desharnais played every possible line combo you can imagine. Pacioretty was carrying the Habs for a while. White came up and was solid in the second half of the season. Yet there these players were, playing great hockey down the stretch and into the playoffs, to the point where we were concerned what the Habs would do without DD, Pacioretty and Eller. All of these players were rookies. I understand your argument if you are talking about leaning on rookies to carry the load , but you have to apprentice rookies in the NHL, especially in a cap age when they make 800k per season. This team has been riddled with these guys since 2008 who have stepped up and delivered. Lapierre and S. Kostitsyn in 2008 were very helpful in the Eastern title run. They are unpredictable, but that is why you don't rely on them to carry offense on the lower lines. You simplify their game and look at their offense as a bonus, just like you would with a Halpern, Metropolit or Moore. You did this whole "injury scarefest" ALL SEASON last year. Every time you predicted doom somebody stepped in and filled the production. The fanbase did it all the way to the wee minutes of Game 7 before Subban tied it. The Habs never quit and their system allowed players to step in and fill gaps. The season hasn't even started and you are putting up "what happens if our defense looks like this without Markov?" "Are we comfortable with Emelin playing more minutes?" If any players are going to falter, it is going to be the sophomores who you have placed an increased expectation upon. Those are the seasons in which Lapierre, Higgins, both Kostitsyn's, Price, D'Agostini, Pouliot etc, disappointed. Hence it comes down to expectation again. You expect nothing from Emelin, so average play will make your glass half empty feel half full. You expect nothing out of Weber, same thing. Next season comes along and you are looking for not only average, but progression. If they are average/below average, they become a disappointment. What were your expectations of DD, Pacioretty, Subban and Eller last season and which of them failed to surpass those expectations? Now what are your expectations for those same 4? I think you are looking for negatives already.
  14. I can't believe we are talking about a 3rd liner 14 months after he played his last game. He played 14 minutes per game. The Habs replaced him and were a better team last season even though they didn't get the same miracles and bounces that lead them to a Semi-final berth. These guys are a dime a dozen in the NHL and can be replaced for 800k or from within.
  15. Welcome to the new NHL. The league where the teams with money can buy assets off the teams with no money. Sounds a little like pre-2005. Gauthier, Burke etc should be going over every teams roster and look who is leaking money, then offer an "incentive" for them to take this money off their hands. Burke has been trying to find these advantages all over the place. Phaneuf = about money. Lupul = about money. Parent = about money. In all of those deals he took back money and players who were injury prone/expensive/risky. That is his way of trying to jump start the Leafs winning ahead of schedule, it also requires plenty of risks on his roster. If Lupul, Lombardi and Connolly all get hurt like they have through their careers the Leafs are left with no offensive depth again, if they all stay healthy? Then it is a legit playoff team. For a team like Montreal, already possessing depth and a contender poaching a Parent could make a huge difference at little cost.
  16. It hasn't even hampered them. They are sitting with millions to spend on July 1st. This is essentially a rehash of an argument that was valid when he was signed and becomes less important with every year removed from his contract and every year that the cap increases. • 2008 he took up 15% of the Rangers cap and was paid $10M per. • 2009 it dropped to 13% and an $8M commitment • 2010 it remained 13%/$8M • 2011 it dropped to 12% and $7.5M • 2012 it dropped again to 11% and $7.5M Next season it will likely drop again and the salary commitment will be only $5.5M per season. It seems like a relatively lazy stance with the cap continuing to sky rocket from $39M to $64M since the lockout. It obviously has to stop at some point, but a $7.3M cap commitment on a $50M cap and one on a $64M one constitutes a huge difference. He is overpaid and if he drops another 30 point season than he will be dealt, he might get dealt if he puts up another 60 point season considering all the teams needing to reach a floor that is $8M more than the initial salary cap. I am not really that worried about him at this point, suggesting that 3/4ths of the guys dealt for him have done NOTHING has resulted in the 2nd worst trade of anything is silly to me.
  17. I believe in building from the net out as well, but you don't really know anything about Diaz and Emelin outside of what you read on the internet and your pessimism in regard to things going wrong for this team. Maybe they are more ready than you suspect, maybe they are not, but we are all commenting with a certain lack of information. The problem is what you consider quality depth. The Canucks quality depth was Ballard and Rome. Ballarad makes a lot of $$, but did not play like it in the playoffs. Every team that contends has some sort of risk moving forward. The Wings and Hawks won Cups with shirts hanging from the net. The Bruins defense core after Chara would have been suspect in your mind in October. I would like for Hammer to return, but this could all be rendered moot if Emelin is a top 4. How bad does Emelin have to be to not be productive. How many people loved Komisarek when he played with Markov? How shit has he proven to be without 79? Gill and Subban are a proven pair. Markov made O'Byrne, Komisarek and Gorges look much better than they were and that leaves the Habs with Gorges, Weber, Spacek and Diaz to fill out the final 2. If Hammer was back that would be more than enough quality depth outside of a crippling injury to PK or Markov. Even though you don't believe in "everything working out so", the Bruins had no health issues outside of Savard, but they knew that moving forward in 2011 he was a major question mark. What problems did the 2010 Hawks encounter? 2009 Pens? No Malkin, Gonchar, Fleury, Crosby injuries. The league is too close now, you need luck and health. The stories are going to be written about how great the Bruins were, but they had 7 games where if they had lost their seasons was done. One bad bounce against the Habs and they were out. One bad bounce against the Lightning and they were done. If players start dropping like flies, your chance of winning the Cup is pretty much NIL.
  18. This is absolute nonsensical hyperbole. http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110628/mtl_habshug_engels_110628/20110628/?hub=MontrealSports Gomez the second worst trade in franchise history? We all know what number one is, but how soon Engels forgets the Chelios/Savard trade. The one where we gave up a player who played another 18 years in the league and won two Norris trophies after leaving Montreal for Savard who produced 179 points in 210 games and wasn't even a factor in the Stanley Cup Final. Leclair, Desjardins and Dionne for Recchi and Mark Lamb? What about Guy Carbonneau for Jim Montgomery? Claude Lemieux for Sylvain Turgeon? Shall I go on? Valentenko, Higgins, Janyk? The only way it even approaches the top 20 worst trades is if McDonagh becomes a number one defenseman. Yes, we get it. Gomez has a shitty contract. Move forward with the rising cap, don't dwell on the past. Gomez is extremely overpaid, but he is not the second worst trade in franchise history. That is just dumb.
  19. http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/06/29/jagr-mulling-three-contract-offers
  20. How many teams have the depth to survive the loss of a Markov/Subban? Does Boston win if Chara goes down? Would the Wings succeed without Lidstrom? The Flyers collapsed without Pronger last season. I don't know if you can build in a cap age with the idea that your best players are going to be eliminated. Can you think of a team that lost a major piece like that and was a legit contender? The only team I can think that won a Cup missing their best player would be the 2001 Avs. If you remove a Markov/Subban level player from any of the last 9 Cup winners would they have won the Cup? Think of the 2002/2008 Wings without Lidstrom, the 03' Devils/07' Ducks without Niedermayer, the 04' Lightning without St. Louis, the 06' Canes without Staal, the 09' Pens without Crobsy etc etc etc. If this was pre-cap and the Habs didn't have to plan on how to fit Price/Subban under the cap in the near future, then they would have re-signed Wiz and money could have provided this type of depth you crave, but I don't know if it is a realistic scenario in 2012. The Habs can survive a minor to mid-level injury to any of their elite players not named Price (10-25 games), but no team can really survive the devastating type injury that Markov suffered last season and still win a Stanley Cup.
  21. I thought he was pushing to go to Montreal?
  22. As long as it isn't handcuffing the team, I have no problem with him. He will bounce back this season AND still will not be worth $7M.
  23. Gomez is overpaid. He will never earn that contract, but the higher the cap goes, the less of an albatross it becomes.
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