REV-G
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Posts posted by REV-G
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In reading and listening there are 3 centers out there who I wonder if they could be of help to us? They have probably been discussed here before as a backup, but I didn't read through all the posts to see if they have been discussed yet, if we're not able to get a Matt Duschene caliber player.
1. Nick Bonino - Pittsburgh I'm not familiar with him but from what I understand he is a very solid 2nd line C who could work out for us as a second option if nothing else is possible?
2. Ryan Nugent Hopkins - Could he be a 1st line center and is he good enough to give up what we would have to in order to acquire him?
3. Joe Thornton - 38?? Could he give us 1 year and still put up some points. Is he a better option for a 1st line center than what we currently have.
What do you think?
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Since this thread title is discussing whether sweeping changes need to me made, I have wondered that since there are not very many French speaking coaches for us to chose from, compared to English speaking, I have to ask why there has not been a major emphasis on making sure that we develop coaches from within. For example, I wonder if Sylvain Lefebvre was considered for even a moment, or was he ever even in the conversation, to replace MT. Somehow I think not. But shouldn't that be an obvious for our AHL head coach? I would think that the three main aspects or priorities of that coaches job description should be:
1. Install and teach a system to the players that the parent club is using so that younger players will learn how to play and be prepared when they are called up.
2. Have the best possible French speaking coach in place in our AHL team so just as the players are being prepared, the coach [coaches] are being prepared and trained to be able to coach the parent club.
3. Win. Develop a winning attitude, game plan and build the team to win in all position.
Shouldn't that be an obvious priority for us since: 1. We must have a French speaking coach. 2. Our team is from Quebec where there are more French speaking coaches in waiting than anywhere in the world.
Why can't/shouldn't we have a great young up and coming French coach in the AHL? Seems pretty obvious to me. Instead.........
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When we hired MB, if I recall, he called on Serge Savard to join him and give his input into their ultimate selection of a GM. I wonder if he still does that on occasion. I think Geoff Molson is a smart guy, he just doesn't have the hockey background. Most/many people in key leadership positions, in whatever field or organization, especially when they know they are lacking in certain areas which in this case is him not having the hockey background, have a discreet group of people they call upon for opinions and wisdom as they go through the decision making process, whether it be monthly meetings or whenever needed. I wonder if he still does this?
We never know how much coaches or players read the papers but I suspect ownership reads everything so they have a finger on the pulse of their fans and city. For sure guys like Serge Savard keep up with whats being reported, so I would be very surprised if Geoff Molson isn't hearing some of what we're saying here, that maybe he needs to remove himself and make some dramatic changes and at least that may give him reason to think on it.
But I agree that it likely isn't going to happen now. But once the draft is over and July 1 comes and goes, if there isn't anything resembling some hope or a new direction but just more of the same tinkering of the bottom 6...who knows. We've been surprised before and it didn't take Geoff M too long on the job to remove Pierre Gauthier and make a change. But PG wasn't Molson's GM of choice so that may have been an easier decision.
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Since our last Stanley Cup we seem to have always had a reasonable hope for the future. Other than a few years where things collapsed, we seem to have made strategic changes and have always bounced back to put us again on a path for hope for success.
I have been a Habs fan for over 50 years and I don't know if it's because I understand things a bit better now or if reality has truly set in. I can't help but believe we have hit the point where sweeping changes have to be made in order for us not to replicate the Leafs and end up going 50 years before we see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Habs fans who experienced the teams in the 70's and 80's and hearing the annual statement "The Stanley Cup parade will again take it's normal route", will never be content to be in the middle of the pack with an average team. We want more than that.
I believe the time has arrived and I also wonder if the man at the top sees it and is willing to make the changes which I think have to be radical. Players often are asked to "take one for the team" and I wonder if the owner, who I really respect as a person, is willing to take one for team. These are the two major changes that I think have to be made.
1. I think he has to remove himself from the hockey equation. I think we are suffering from having a President who is not a qualified hockey man. Our worst example over the past 20 years or more has been the Maple Leafs but they have turned the corner and it all started with putting in place a very good hockey man with head office [inner circle] experience. With the knowledge and connections he had in hockey he knew the right people and he brought them in and they are now one of the exciting teams going forward and are becoming a force to be reckoned with. Geoff Molson can still, as the owner, be the overseer of the team, with the new President reporting to him, but he has to turn the reigns over to a very good, qualified hockey man.
2. I really liked the Marc Bergevin hiring at the time but I think his approach and flaws have been exposed this year. Our pipeline of young talent seems very weak or non-existent in terms of giving us help from the minors. The team of coaches he has put in place to develop players seems a complete failure. His sticking with coaches after the results seem to indicate a change is needed has to be on him. Keeping Sylvain Lefebre in place season after season with losing records, players not being developed and in some cases regressing, and the comments I read from some of his players saying there seemed to be no system in place is indefensible. Going all this time without drafting a centre or trading for one or acquiring one somehow again, has to be on him. I think we need a new GM to start with what we have and begin again.
I think Hab's fans would be willing, probably excited, to see these changes which would give us again a hope and future. Right now I don't think too many of us have a hope or see a very bright future for our Habs. I hope Geoff Molson and Marc Bergevin see that as well and I hope their goal is more than just having a decent team for the next 5 years.
So do you think Geoff Molson will do anything of significance? Does he even see the need for these kind of changes?
Do you think he's willing to move himself out and move someone else in?
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58 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:
1. Weakness since 2008
2. Marc Bergevin, Martin Lapointe, Rob Ramage, Sylvain Lefebvre, and Donald Dufresne.
3. Fire a lot of people and find better people to do the jobs. Geoff Molson needs to hire a proper President to oversee the club.
If drafting is a weakness of ours, since 2008, shouldn't Trevor Timmons be on your list?
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32 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:
Geoff Molson needs to hire a proper President to oversee the club.
Interesting. The team we laughed at for so many years hired as their president.....a former hockey player, Brendan Shanahan. And look at the results they've been having as a result of the management team he has put together.
Could we be that flawed? That's kind of a scary scenario.
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I'm hearing a message that seems a bit contradictory.
I've read on these boards for years that Trevor Timmons is one of the best at drafting in the NHL.
Now I'm hearing that "inept drafting and development" goes back to 08.
So I have three questions.
1. Is our drafting a strength or a weakness compared to other teams?
2. I agree that our player development is seems to be poor. So who are the guilty ones responsible for our poor developing of young players.
I assume that Sylvain Levebre [sp?] is one.
Who are others?
3. What changes do we have to make?
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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:
Goalies never bring that type of return.
Do you think Martin Brodeur or Patrick Roy could have brought that kind of return?
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For argument sake, let's say MB and Price's agent sit down and after talking it was agreed by both sides that the best option would be for us to trade him, Price agrees with the move. What do get for him.
With his awards, trophies, past successes and playing on the WJC, Olympics and other world tournaments and considered the best goalie in hockey by many this would be my asking price:
A top line centre.
A second top young asset.
Two first round picks, or a first and a high second.
What do you think?
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As I'm watching the Rangers and Montreal, I'm noticing something. NY's plan seems to be they want to carry the puck into our zone most of the time and then tries to set up.
We seem to dump it in more often than not, give it right back to them and then try to take it away from them. This was MT's system, I wonder if CJ is going to change that?
I really hope so if he wants us to be a stronger possession team.
What do you think?
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If Beaulieu, a 1st and McCarron is not enough, what about adding Juulsen to get Duschene?
You're getting maybe a 2nd or 3d pairing young defenceman, a top defensive prospect, a big solid potential 3d liner and a 1st round pick. I'd even add a 2nd round pick this year and one next year if that's what was needed to get it done.
So you offer Beaulieu, a 1st, McCarron, Juulsen and a 2nd next year.
I think at this point I would do want I had to do to get Duschene because of what he would add to our team.
In terms of rebuilding isn't that a pretty good return for a 60 point player. And we keep Sergachev.
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I wonder if a first, Noah Juleson [sp?] and Gallagher would get it done for Duschene? Maybe add Beaulieu if we got a decent defenceman back??
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So we're past the half way point of the season. Last year our epic collapse is in the books. Everyone seemed to feel that if Montreal got off to a bad start to the season MT would be on a short lease and a coaching change might be coming. But we got off to a very hot start.
But now after here we are after 55 games, with 27 games remaining we have won just 3 out of their last 10.
I guess the questions MB has to answer is:
- is this a mid season funk or if we combine all of last season and this season together, has this team played below the expectations?
- with the talent we have should we doing better?? I think yes!
- does the problem lie with the coach and his system?
- is it time to make a coaching change....Claude Julien....if Boston would even give permission for Montreal to talk to him??
My guess is that MB gives MT at least another two weeks. But if we haven't pulled out of this...it may be time!!
What do you think?
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So if we were offering Beaulieu and our 1st, what could we add to get Duchene without giving up Sergachev?
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I think if we want Duchene, trading Galchenyuk for him doesn't make sense to me. If we want to improve significantly would we not be better off trading Beaulieu, a 1st and two prospects, while refusing to include our 1st round pick from last year.
I think I would bite the bullet and give away Scherback and McCarron instead of giving up Galchenyuk. I know that seems like a high price but I think it would instantly move us up with Washington and Pittsburgh ins terms of strength down the middle.
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It is telling that Weber wasn't considered the best player on his own pairing twice in his career. I think he'll be good for our young D prospects and the locker room in certain ways, but contrary to what Bergevin believes that's not enough to win a Cup. You need talent, and we wasted one of the best.
Reading that Galchenyuk piece just made me sad all over again. And not too optimistic on how Radulov will fare under this regime.
What was the Galchenyuk piece. I missed that??
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I love watching PK on and off the ice. I am so disappointed.
So to try to understand MB's hockey strategy, putting aside the ego's etc., I wonder if something like this is his plan.
They ended up drafting Sergachev with the 9th pick. Were they surprised to get him then? Were they maybe expecting to get a forward??
So I wonder if shortly after they drafted him they see him as their future #1 D and wanted a Weber type and Markov to be his role models?
If Weber has 3-4 good years left that gives Sergachev the time to develop into a #1 D.
If they had drafted Nylander maybe this trade never happens??
For me, this is how I think MB is hoping and planning for the future on defence.
I still hate the trade! But if we pick up a very good UFA scoring forward, that will ease the pain a bit with the other positive changes we've
made....Muller, Shaw, Eller, add a very good forward and that will be something to look forward to.
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This has been a great discussion, while we're waiting! I think where I was going with this is that is there a legitimate, doable deal say with Edmonton that would make sense for us to trade PK.
Subban is one of my top three Canadiens, Price, Gally and PK and I absolutely see his value to us. No question.
I guess our speculation here is whether Edmonton would grossly overpay to finally get that caliber defenceman to go along with McDavid and that is more where I was heading. That would give them something special for years to come and maybe bump them out of the rut and the culture that they're in.
I'm thinking that if we get their 4th, say Dubois, and draft the best defenceman available with our 9th pick, and get Hall and a top pairing defenceman, plus something else, and then pick up a top defenceman in free agency, would that not be a game changer and maybe the kind of blockbuster deal we need?
Just saying, I think that kind of deal, if Edmonton was desperate enough, could be something very special for us. And something where all the pieces don't come together very often. So it's certainly worth kicking some tires to see if there's anything that makes sense. I'm certain there have been huge deals struck just with this kind of back an forth between GM's and someone [MB] suddenly gets interested!
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By your responses I think I have way over valued Nurse. I thought he was a star stud defenceman in the making.
Thanks for the input!
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Interesting that you have Brown that low. I've read some negative comments about Brown being lazy but many of the mock drafts have us taking him at #9. He would not be my first pick at 9. I like most of your choices at 9 over Brown.
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For the record, I love PK and every time I hear a rumor of a trade involving him I roll my eyes. But hearing the talk in the media about maybe a trade occurring brought me to the place where I asked myself, is there a trade that I would make with Edmonton where what they were offering would tempt me to trade PK for what they would give us in return.
So let's play GM for a minute and say that Edmonton has made us an offer for PK. The offer is Darnell Nurse, their 4th pick and Yak. Would that be a fair exchange that would benefit both teams.
What do you think?
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Just curious, I don't follow the prospects as closely as most of you do, but assuming we keep our #9 pick, if we had a choice between a Clayton Keller, Logan Brown or Tyson Jost who do you think we should take?
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Sometimes a situation looks good when you're on the outside looking in. But if you're on the inside you know and see things other people don't. For both assistants to refuse a contract offer and leave, to me that says there's something that they're not willing to live with and they both said no to what seems to be a pretty good situation long term.
If for some reason you know you may not enjoy going in to work every day then most people would look elsewhere.
Obviously this is just speculation but when both assistants say no to a one year deal it does look a little suspicious, to me anyway.
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I think the feeling about Roy is pretty unanimous. Has his stock ever fallen since he left the Q. Probably should have stayed there. That's likely where he'll end up again.
On another potential candidate, I heard on Toronto Talk radio this morning that the feeling in Boston is that both Cam Neely and Claude Julien may be out at the end of the season. I think Claude would be a fabulous choice for us, if he was willing to return!
What do you think about Claude as our coach?
Permanent Trade Proposal Thread
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
Martin Lemay of RDS wrote a very interesting piece. He spent some time doing a little research and his conclusion was, you cannot build a Stanley Cup winning team without a good first line center.
He made the comment that Washington has built their team around a winger, Ovechkin, and they can't seem to win. He pointed out that they have very good 2nd and 3d line centres but not a first. I couldn't help but wonder what would happen to the Capitols if they traded Ovechkin to the Islanders for John Taveres?
He lists the teams that have won the cup and shows their centres and while there may be an occasional exception [I didn't check into the teams that won] he makes a very strong point that if we don't get a first line centre we have little hope of winning.
He went back and showed that Serge Savard often or maybe even usually, traded wingers for centers. He always had an abundance of centers and we won in 93 and had good teams year after year.
So his final conclusion was that Marc Bergeron has to get centre come September, no matter what the cost.
What do you think? Agree or disagree?