REV-G Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 When Jose Theodore was traded to Colorado for David Aebischer there were some comments made about how Montreal was supplying Colorado with goalies. If I remember, Patrick Roy said something like, Colorado won't have to draft goalies anymore, they can just get them from Montreal. Well the facts don't quite prove any of those comments true. Here are the midseason stats on both goalies. Theodore has played 6 more games than Aebischer, 22 compared to 16. Theodore's save % is .899 and his GAA is 3.10. Both of these statistics put Theo in the bottom 10% of the NHL's goalies. David Aebischer's save % is .907 and his GAA is 2.99. And the bottom line is that Aebischer is making a few million dollars per year less than Theo. According to some reports Theodore may now be on thin ice with Colorado. So did Bob Gainey make a good deal for Montreal when he exchanged goalies? Absolutely yes. If we wanted to trade Aebischer, he's very tradable. On the other hand, Theo's stats and salary will probably make him untradable. In addition we removed a huge salary cap hit in trading Theo which opened the door for other moves and players that could be added. So with the second half of the season still to come, we'll see how they end up. But I think the writings in the wall. Deal, or no deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 When Jose Theodore was traded to Colorado for David Aebischer there were some comments made about how Montreal was supplying Colorado with goalies. If I remember, Patrick Roy said something like, Colorado won't have to draft goalies anymore, they can just get them from Montreal. Well the facts don't quite prove any of those comments true. Here are the midseason stats on both goalies. Theodore has played 6 more games than Aebischer, 22 compared to 16. Theodore's save % is .899 and his GAA is 3.10. Both of these statistics put Theo in the bottom 10% of the NHL's goalies. David Aebischer's save % is .907 and his GAA is 2.99. And the bottom line is that Aebischer is making a few million dollars per year less than Theo. According to some reports Theodore may now be on thin ice with Colorado. So did Bob Gainey make a good deal for Montreal when he exchanged goalies? Absolutely yes. If we wanted to trade Aebischer, he's very tradable. On the other hand, Theo's stats and salary will probably make him untradable. In addition we removed a huge salary cap hit in trading Theo which opened the door for other moves and players that could be added. So with the second half of the season still to come, we'll see how they end up. But I think the writings in the wall. Deal, or no deal? Theo is now backup to Peter Budaj (you are forgiven if you look at the name and say, "Who?") and because of his ridiculous salary, is un-dealable. Gainey was very adept in trading him, first, but also in giving the Avalanche a wonderful $5M dollar ball and chain. Sorry Jetsniper, but the ex-Nordiques have a real dog on their hands. Might want to invest in beachballs to raise his confidence, though I have a feeling he might even let those in. As for Aebi, he's been good enough. Nothing spectacular - he is worth about one poor goal a game - but he keeps the team in the contest and his bad goals don't come at bad times, usually. Expensive for a backup (which is what he is now, behind Huet), but ultimately a solid guy to have when our starter needs a rest or has one of his rare poor contests. As for being tradable? I don't really think so. First of all, there's no compelling reason to trade him. Our two AHL guys need all the AHL time they can get to improve and we really don't need the cap space at the moment. More importantly, he's fairly low on the pecking order of "available" goalies right now. (Contrary to some public belief, management never expected us to contend this year, it's just another step towards a Cup run in a couple of years. We won't be trading any our our exceptional youth for UFA vets so we have a chance at a Cup this year. Rather, I feel Gainey will keep the core of the club together and tweak it over the next few. One hates to push the word 'dynasty' out there because in this day and age, you can't really have one, but Montreal's drafting skill has offered the opportunity to have a very successful club over the long-term, rather than just one year. I don't see Gainey trading our vaunted youth for a chance at a single Cup run now over keeping them for an extended run at the top of the league over a few years.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) The funniest thing about that deal was Pierre Lacroix stepping down 2 months after saddling the Avs with that $5 Million Contract. I hated Abby when the deal was made and I was still happy as hell to be out from under that contract!! Great deal! It just shows that Bob Gainey knows what the hell is going on in the new NHL. Not like the drunken sailor running the Leafs tossing out 3-4 year contracts to everybody he can. Edited January 10, 2007 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Great trade, no question at all. The lingering mystery is how Theodore could flame out so spectacularly. He was never the most consistent guy, but he put together three bona fide elite seasons as a starter in Montreal, one of which was through-the-roof incredible (the MVP year); and he had two other years where his performances were at least adequate. So for five years, he was a good-to-great starter. Then suddenly - POOF. What happened?? I can only theorize that he can't adapt to the 'New NHL.' I find that strange because his lateral movement was always so good - surely what you need in an era of high-octane offense. The problem must be a mental one, namely, that he can't adjust MENTALLY to the speed of the new game. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 My theory is he saw so much rubber thrown at him nightly, 30-40 shots a night he got burned out. Goalies only have so many saves in them, Theo just used all his in 5 yeears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsmith Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Another thing people don't notice about Theo's contract is it was all back loaded. It's a 5.5 mil cap hit or something like that, but he makes more like 6.5 in the last year. So he's even more untradeable now as he must be paid far more than his cap hit. Abby's not super valuable, but he could be traded at the deadline if we needed to (God Forbid) fill an injury void or help clear space to make a deal. I agree he doesn't have big value out there like Biron or Nabokov or either of Anaheim's guys, but then again he'd likely put Tampa in the playoffs. Also, look at how the teams with an overqualified and often 'overpaid' backup are doing this year? Anaheim, Buffallo and San Jose are among the best teams in the league, becasue their opponents face a legitimate NHL starter every single game. Abby's money is earning us a lot more points in the standings than Samonov's 3.5. mil. (shudder) But I guess even Bob makes a mistake every once in a while. Hey, maybe Colorado's looking for a second line left winger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hey, maybe Colorado's looking for a second line left winger? Hey, maybe Colorado's looking for a second line left winger one on one for Brisebois ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Great trade, no question at all. The lingering mystery is how Theodore could flame out so spectacularly. My theory is that he's struggling with his motivation level to put in the work needed to be an elite goalie. I don't have much to back it up, but he's had his share of off-ice drama, so I get the impression that's where his attention is. $5 million a year can provide a lot of distractions, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I'll tell you what happen. Paris Hilton. First Jose, then Britney, who's next?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I am waitig the day Theodore clears waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 He went off the juice. Just like Todd Bertuzzi and a few others. Lucky for Roy there were no tests during his years in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makh2o Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 He went off the juice. Just like Todd Bertuzzi and a few others. Lucky for Roy there were no tests during his years in the NHL. Off the juice, and into the powder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 The funniest thing about that deal was Pierre Lacroix stepping down 2 months after saddling the Avs with that $5 Million Contract. I believe Lacroix was really sick last year. I remember him laughing is ass off when the trade was made. he thought he made the deal of the century !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 He went off the juice. Just like Todd Bertuzzi and a few others. Lucky for Roy there were no tests during his years in the NHL. Juice? Goaltending? Roy? Juice? you are on CRACK. you're talking about a drug that makes you stronger, beefer... Goalies only need to be fast and well positionned. No drug can do that for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Goalies only need to be fast and well positionned. No drug can do that for you. amphetamines can help. IMO nothing beats a good coffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) Still cant believe we found a sucker to take that 6 mill salary off our hands! I thought we'd be stuck with him for 2 more seasons, thx colorada, revenge for the roy trade! As for Theo, doesnt anyone remember the 3 amigos? He was too busy living the suburban montreal dream of being a party guy at buona notte and doing tons of coke off a cocktail waitress' chest. Ive known a few girls who've worked places liked Buona. One of them (formely of Buona infact) we called "bobblehead" because of the noticible physical effect that copious amounts of coke usage had on her character. Maybe she was a buddy of theo's? Edited January 11, 2007 by Dirty Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canajun Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 You got it right on Harry... Theodore got into the coke and then went right downhill. Simple as that. Nobody to blame but himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Uh...just out of curiosity, how do we know Theo was on coke - ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Theo is now backup to Peter Budaj (you are forgiven if you look at the name and say, "Who?") and because of his ridiculous salary, is un-dealable. Gainey was very adept in trading him, first, but also in giving the Avalanche a wonderful $5M dollar ball and chain. Sorry Jetsniper, but the ex-Nordiques have a real dog on their hands. No need to be sorry, I know. He's got what though? A year and a half left? Budaj isn't a Who? though after last year, especially being the starting goalie for Slovakia at the Olympics (going 4-0 in the process). A lot of contracts run out this year, some guys can get paid less, some more, some are gone (Hooray for Breeze-by leaving!). Basically though, Budaj is proving himself to be a #1 guy and for that reason, takes the sting out of the Theodore trade. We didn't lose much in getting him either, he's got a big contract but we can deal with that. Then we've got Billy Sauer to develop who, before last season started, was considered a first round talent and just had a shitty year, could be a major steal in the 7th round. Yeah, Theo sucks, I won't fight it anymore but it doesn't really bother me. Why? Because our defense sucks even more and I'm more focused on that. I find it amazing Habs fans are still hung up on this trade though. For a guy who was supposedly despised last season, it sure takes a while for you guys to get over it. I don't mean it as an insult or anything but us Avs fans really could care less about how Aebi is doing right now and he was far from liked when he got dealt as well. Btw, I guess you guys'll like this, Theo's last outing was against Dallas last week, allowed 5 goals on 22 shots. He got booed off the ice. Avs fans don't do that often. So if you're looking for some kind of moral victory for winning the trade, there you go. one on one for Brisebois ?? Yeah, right, lose a defenseman when we can't afford too for a forward we don't need. No, we don't need help at forward at all. We don't have trouble scoring, it's keeping them out. Budaj can stand on his head some nights and it's still not enough. I knew we should've signed McKee no matter the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justintb Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Cmon guys.. You weren't aware that Theodore was a cokehead? They were known as "the three amigos"...Theodore, Ribeiro, Dagenais They lived their night lifes like rockstars..which is why Theodore's game depleted after the NHL introduced the new drug testing policy, making him unable to get across his crease like he used to. Same goes for ribeiro, which is why he was such garbage for a while, and dagenais had some flashes in him at times, but generally he was slow. It mainly affected Theodores game, because it is difficult for a goalie to get back to original ways when you are in that sped-up, rushed mindstate, thus destroying his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 It doesn't quite even the score for the Patrick Roy deal, but it helps take some of the sting away. It would have been nice to fleece them for an extra draft pick, or Marek Svatos or something. But no question, the deal has been far better for Montreal than for Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Yeah, Theo sucks, I won't fight it anymore but it doesn't really bother me. Why? Because our defense sucks even more and I'm more focused on that. I find it amazing Habs fans are still hung up on this trade though. For a guy who was supposedly despised last season, it sure takes a while for you guys to get over it. I don't mean it as an insult or anything but us Avs fans really could care less about how Aebi is doing right now and he was far from liked when he got dealt as well. It's called passion for one's team. Habs fans live and die on our team and will talk about trades and players for years. That is why every Canadiens game is sold out every night, where as in Denver you are lucky to fill have the arena on any given night. There is a big difference between Canadian hockey fans and American hockey fans in general. I'll try to put it in terms you can understand. Hockey to us is like baseball or football to Americans. I have friends that in the States that still talk about Steve YOung and Joe Montana. It's just passion. I think that says a lot about Avs fans that they couldn't care less about Aebi anymore. This should be a main focus for you, due to the fact that all your troubles are directly linked to that trade. You can say that it doesn't matter that you have Theo because Budaj has taken over and done a good job, but consider this - if you were not burdened with Theo's contract you could afford to get the defensive help that you do so need. You just don't think like a hockey fan bud. Sorry about your luck, but look on the bright side, at least you don't fully realize how bad of a deal you got stuck with.....enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 It's called passion for one's team. Habs fans live and die on our team and will talk about trades and players for years. That is why every Canadiens game is sold out every night, where as in Denver you are lucky to fill have the arena on any given night. There is a big difference between Canadian hockey fans and American hockey fans in general. I'll try to put it in terms you can understand. Hockey to us is like baseball or football to Americans. I have friends that in the States that still talk about Steve YOung and Joe Montana. It's just passion. I think that says a lot about Avs fans that they couldn't care less about Aebi anymore. This should be a main focus for you, due to the fact that all your troubles are directly linked to that trade. You can say that it doesn't matter that you have Theo because Budaj has taken over and done a good job, but consider this - if you were not burdened with Theo's contract you could afford to get the defensive help that you do so need. You just don't think like a hockey fan bud. Sorry about your luck, but look on the bright side, at least you don't fully realize how bad of a deal you got stuck with.....enjoy. In fairness to Avs fans they had great support until this year with attendance. D efinitly some of the better fans in the US. But its also a difference between Canadian and American fans. We are probably more knowledgeable,a nd definitley care more about hockey than US fans, so there we analyze trades for a longer period of time than do American fans, especially when it involves our beloved Canadiens. Probably the same way with Americans and Baseball. They still talk to this day of the Babe Ruth trade and the curse...now broken I guess...of the Boston Red Sox. As for the Aebischer trade being the direct result of Colorado's struggles thats not correct at all. The salary cap was the huge downfall of that team. Losing Rob Blake hurt more than Losing David Aebischer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 As for the Aebischer trade being the direct result of Colorado's struggles thats not correct at all. The salary cap was the huge downfall of that team. Losing Rob Blake hurt more than Losing David Aebischer Colorado are no different than any other team in the league. We all had to deal with the salary cap, they would have been able to deal with it better if they had their $4+ million dollars back that has been wasted on Theo. I am not saying that the sole reason why Colorado are not playing very well is because of this trade, however it is a huge contributing factor and without that trade they may have been able to resign Blake. In a roundabout way it all comes back choices that GM's make. Without that trade we would not be as good as we are this year and on the flipside, Colorado would not be struggling as bad as they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Juice? Goaltending? Roy? Juice? you are on CRACK. you're talking about a drug that makes you stronger, beefer... Goalies only need to be fast and well positionned. No drug can do that for you. I don't know, played a game on acid once and got a shut out. Never retried the experiment so test size was very small. Game was played in slo-mo. Very easy to follow. I remember a slapshot coming in from the point. I was checking out a girl in the crowd at the time, she pointed to the shot, I turned and watched it come at me with a tracer at 2mph. Easy glove save that I made look spectacular. Caught the puck at my left toe. Crazy things I did in midget, but hey, it was the 70's! Don't try this kids, pot is the only drug any of you should try if you can't stay clean and have to experiment. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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