PB Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Except for Souray most any of our players will experience this year some of the lowest productive points-season of their carreer. I think Carbonneau's system has to be accounted for this state of affair. Our goal scored when 5-on-5 have been bad ALL season long, an adjusment in our play would have been required 3 months ago, obviously nothing was done in that respect,.....some team around us adjusted and improved upon their respective weaknesses.......we didn't improved on ours....how could a decline not happen. Quality puck possession time is important, different ways for different teams, Carbo has not found ways for us to possess the puck in the most efficient manner for our team. If we did we would have drawned more penaltys against us......but we still aren't.....still the worst league wide. Of course good puck possession equal more shots on goal.....our shots-differentiel was about the worst in the league then and it still the same months after. Our speed and overall offensive talents have not been exploited and the result are speaking for themselves. Murray and Downey are STILL here while Garbovski, Kostitsyn or even Milroy could have had been much more usefull in their place.......or is it that their speed and talent would have gone to waste here under Carbo ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I am not a fan of Carbo's system at all. I watched a lot of bad Senators hockey under Jacques Martin...a team that doesn't forecheck aggressively is boring as hell to watch. These Habs just aren't built for that style of hockey, yet Carbo is shoving it down everyone's throat stubbornly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 well, whatever we may think, i don't really know what's going on in the locker room, in the practices, in the discussions, etc... it's just not clicking like it used to... tonight, the work was there, like it was last game but legs, sticks, posts, etc are just getting in the way... frustrating... GO :hlogo: GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV-G Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 If what you're saying is true about Carbo's system why were they scoring goals and winning games and challenging Buffalo for top spot until Dec. 23? Koivu was on track for a great season goal wise and Higgins was continuing his great play and goal scoring from last year up until he was injured. I think the question is more what has happened to this team in the past 7 or 8 weeks? If we did in the second half of the season what we did in the first half we'd all be thinking that maybe this team had a chance of doing some real damage in the playoffs. Same players, same coach and same system. The key question is what has changed that they aren't doing what they did a mere few months back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 If what you're saying is true about Carbo's system why were they scoring goals and winning games and challenging Buffalo for top spot until Dec. 23? Koivu was on track for a great season goal wise and Higgins was continuing his great play and goal scoring from last year up until he was injured. I think the question is more what has happened to this team in the past 7 or 8 weeks? If we did in the second half of the season what we did in the first half we'd all be thinking that maybe this team had a chance of doing some real damage in the playoffs. Same players, same coach and same system. The key question is what has changed that they aren't doing what they did a mere few months back. Early in the season the PP and PK units were tops in the league. Our goaltending was great. We squeaked out a lot of wins that way, but even then, our 2nd line sucked and our 5 on 5 play was brutal. it was only a matter of time before teams adjusted to our PP (ie... get in Souray's face). The goaltending has been spotty, and now we lose more then we win. Last year, Toronto lived and eventually died by the PP. They were doing pretty good until people figured out how to stop McCabe. As you may recall, they missed the playoffs. You are not going to CONSISTENTLY win in this league unless you can play 5 on 5 and get enough goal production to overcome the odd bad game by the goalie, or penalty trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Except for Souray most any of our players will experience this year some of the lowest productive points-season of their carreer. I think Carbonneau's system has to be accounted for this state of affair. Our goal scored when 5-on-5 have been bad ALL season long, an adjusment in our play would have been required 3 months ago, obviously nothing was done in that respect,.....some team around us adjusted and improved upon their respective weaknesses.......we didn't improved on ours....how could a decline not happen. Quality puck possession time is important, different ways for different teams, Carbo has not found ways for us to possess the puck in the most efficient manner for our team. If we did we would have drawned more penaltys against us......but we still aren't.....still the worst league wide. Of course good puck possession equal more shots on goal.....our shots-differentiel was about the worst in the league then and it still the same months after. Our speed and overall offensive talents have not been exploited and the result are speaking for themselves. Murray and Downey are STILL here while Garbovski, Kostitsyn or even Milroy could have had been much more usefull in their place.......or is it that their speed and talent would have gone to waste here under Carbo ? agreed. and it's hard for Gainey to do anything about it, because bringing in "offensive" guys who would just be asked to play D and turn into pluggers would do nothing... I want a more offensive system. We have the players for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 The way they are playing I am pretty sure they don't have an offensive strategy. It's more like a lucky bounce hope and prayer strategy. Maybe Huet can keep us in the game long enough for one of us to actually score from the blue line. Since not too many of these guys knows where the net is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebischer4life Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 When you got guys like Ryder and Higgins playing on your first line. You know you gots problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 When you got guys like Ryder and Higgins playing on your first line. You know you gots problems. Higgins equals to Vermette in Ottawa and where does he play? (not that I have anythging against having Higgins or Vermette type players) its that we cant expect much from our team with the level of players we have! we have accepted it we have in our best nights the 4 best 3rd lines in the league! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Montreal's really lacked good scoring forwards for years...obviously Gainey hoped signing Samsonov would make a difference but we're seeing no difference between this team and the other teams of the past few years. Average defense, Poor offense and usually Good goaltending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 agreed. and it's hard for Gainey to do anything about it, because bringing in "offensive" guys who would just be asked to play D and turn into pluggers would do nothing... I want a more offensive system. We have the players for it. Well said. Remember, this is the ONLY coaching staff in Samsonov's entire career that has failed to get decent offence from him. That says more about the coaches than it does about Samsonov. These are the same people that pride themselves on developing Mark Streit at the expense of Perezhogin. Unless we go out and get an absolute monster, good offensive players are most likely to be ground into Mike McPhees under the current regime. Sick, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 its counterproductive only if we allow 2 goals or more per game... Our offense is Grit grit and on and off finishing.... when will we see the quick passes tape on tape and the dont blink cause u wont see that shot comingg off like a sniper... If our strategy is grit alla Braveheart rampage then players like Kovalev and Forsberg wont do a thing here!. if we only could have the best of both worlds perhaps 3 lines of grit alla Begin and one finesse line is what would make Kovalev happy. But dude the opponent will see right through that.. thats why carbo has wished and tried to share and spread our (better) talented players around... if only our grit players had 5 seconds of finesse per 45 second shift and those 5 seconds were smack on when most needed then we wouldnt be having this discussion. its tough!! and it can only get tougher! Confidence and high spirits can be the only remedy now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 We should be like a low-rent Buffalo - four lines, all capable of scoring. If our players were playing up to their potential that would likely be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canajun Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Funny that you mention Mike McPhee, Chicoutimi. Mikey and I aren't blood-related, but we both have the same uncle here in Cape Breton. I remember watching Mikey play with the Port Hawkesbury Strait Pirates junior team out here and he was always THE man for offense. Never the greatest skater, but great offensive instincts and a great shot. And then , as you indicated, he was transformed into a grinder/plugger by the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I agree each line should get at least one shot per shift and one drive to the net to go along with it! minimum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Funny that you mention Mike McPhee, Chicoutimi. Mikey and I aren't blood-related, but we both have the same uncle here in Cape Breton. I remember watching Mikey play with the Port Hawkesbury Strait Pirates junior team out here and he was always THE man for offense. Never the greatest skater, but great offensive instincts and a great shot. And then , as you indicated, he was transformed into a grinder/plugger by the Habs. Well, McPhee - unlike anyone on our team today - had a knack of scoring big goals, I remember that. But I doubt he would ever have been a real offensive force in the NHL. A more to-the-point example might be Guy Carbonneau, though. Now there's a player who had the skill set (speed, the ability to read the play, intelligence) that might have allowed him to be an effective offensive player in the NHL, but he was compelled to become a checking centre by, I think it was, Jacques Lemaire. I guess what we're seeing is Carbo's revenge! :?- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Well, McPhee - unlike anyone on our team today - had a knack of scoring big goals, I remember that. But I doubt he would ever have been a real offensive force in the NHL. A more to-the-point example might be Guy Carbonneau, though. Now there's a player who had the skill set (speed, the ability to read the play, intelligence) that might have allowed him to be an effective offensive player in the NHL, but he was compelled to become a checking centre by, I think it was, Jacques Lemaire. I guess what we're seeing is Carbo's revenge! :?- There is no doubt it is the system. We have not had a 100 point scorer since Mats Naslund and we have not had a 90 pt player since Damphousse and Turgeon in 1996. They have not had a PPG player since Damphousse in 97. What does that tell you about our system. I can deal with a conservative offense if you have a strong defense, I can deal with a conservative offense if we are going to be a contending team. But sitting back for 60 minutes against the dregs of the league like the Panthers hoping to catch them make a mistake while they do the same, leaves me wanting to poke my eyes out. Is that how you break out of a slump?? Florida is out of the playoffs for a reason. Put some pressure on their defense, force them to make mistakes. They are not going to make any mistakes if you passively forecheck them and sit back in the neutral zone. They have the scouting reports, they know our defense is apt to cough the puck up with a little pressure, and BINGO guess what happened. Why load up on speed if you are not going to utilize it? Why call up Kosty? He is going to be placed on the 3rd line and taught to play defense the Canadiens way. In 2 years we are going to wonder why the hell all of our prospects dried up? And that is because they are to afraid to jump in the play and take risks. Tonight is going to be just as painful to watch. Either Montreal will finally score first and sit in a shell hoping the Devils cannot score or they will give up the first and lose 2-0 or 3-0. I am holding out hope of a shocking upset to end the streak tonight...I can always hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) We should be like a low-rent Buffalo - four lines, all capable of scoring. If our players were playing up to their potential that would likely be the case. With the type of roster we had at the beginning of the season and with the Hamilton type players that where a few months away from being NHL ready there is no doubts in my mind that the coaching's approach benefitting Buffalo's roster would have benifitted our team in a similar way. The actual CH roster and our Hamilton's prospects have a near ideal NewNHL profile,......the offensive potential of this group is way better than what they have acheived thus far under Carbo......our team's disfonctionality when 5on5 was readily apparent 2-3 months ago,.... 64 goals against BUFF 108 on those occasion was a shure sign.......all the while our team was the worst penalised team in the league and the one with the lowest record at drawing penaltys against themselves. Facts where what they where,....the drawing board needed to be revisited and the team's play and prioritys needed to be altered,... line formations needed be re-ajusted and replacement of players by Hamilton's prospects needed considered......much needed be done..... only the coach was in a position to bring those changes.......I doubts if any of it took place. Lets face it, our present stats when 5-on-5 have not improved since then and no rooster change took place in our formation. Is Carbo's vision antithetique to the newNHL ? is he stiffling the potential of our particular roster and shortchanging our chances to be better than we are ? shouldn't our prospects already be with us to provide our team the scoring depth it badly needs ? Those are only questions......but the 5-on-5 should be the heart and soul of a team.......I didn't feel good about it in the mid-season and I am now worrying about our futur......short and long term. Edited February 15, 2007 by PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St-Patrick Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Da habs need to change their system cause it's obviously not working anymore... carbo's got a lot of work ahead of him, i hope he takes up the challenge instead of benching sammy as scapegoat. carbo's style of game may work in da playoffs.. but now, it seems every team's got our number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I'm holding out for some kind of a shakeup meaning a trade. Benching, healthy scratching, and waiving players really hasn't changed anything. Thus, they've only got one more route to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Yes, keep blaming coaches, strategies, etc. EVERY COACH the last 5 years has had the same problem. The players don't work hard, not too talented and the core has never scored much or been anything but an 8 seed. Which i think they curently stll are. BLAME the players no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan24 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Maybe they should try getting in front of the net a little more. Turn Gui into a Centre have him stand in front of the net and screen the goalie. Every shot the Habs take seems to be from the perimeter with no traffic. Also shoot more, and good things will happen. When teams are slumping and the goals are hard to come by you need to make it happen. It seems every team the Habs play they are always getting in from of Huet or Abby. Also they seem to give them a little extra poke after the whistle. Why doesn't Montreal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Excellent points HF24 the Habs do need more traffic I wish they had guys with the mind set of Gionta who is always in front of the net. As for the extra poke I wish the Habs had more gritty players who were not affraid to get a stinky mitt for going to the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Excellent points HF24 the Habs do need more traffic I wish they had guys with the mind set of Gionta who is always in front of the net. As for the extra poke I wish the Habs had more gritty players who were not affraid to get a stinky mitt for going to the net. Then we got to trade for Thomas Holmstrom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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