Who made the right decision-Gainey or Kevin Lowe?

[REV-G]

At the trade deadline yesterday two teams, Montreal and Edmonton, both had important players who will be UFA's this summer, and neither had signed a new contract with their respective teams. Bob Gainey choose to not trade Sourey and runs the risk of losing him for nothing this summer. Kevin Lowe choose to trade Ryan Smith and received prospects and picks for the future. Which decision for these two GM's was the right one? Edmonton fans are probably very upset at losing another key leader. From what I heard yesterday from Bob Mckenzie the two sides were only a few hundred thousand dollars apart but they both played hardball and wouldn't give in. Mckenzie says there are hard feelings on both sides now and this will not be a pleasant parting. But for the future Edmonton probably came out ahead. For Montreal, we still have a key piece of our team for the PP and for the playoff run. But we may lose Sourey for nothing this summer and will have lost a very important opportunity, and one that doesn't come around all that often, to get some really good players. I think in Montreal's case we won't know for sure until this summer. In order for this to have been a good decision, first we have to make the playoffs. Secondly, we must do some damage and not get knocked out in the first round. Thirdly Sourey must resign with Montreal. But if we don't make the playoffs and then we don't resign Sourey and he walks for nothing, then I think we will have made a very bad decision that will affect us for a few years. We'll all know this summer and then we'll know which of these two GM's made the right decision.

[brobin]

At the trade deadline yesterday two teams, Montreal and Edmonton, both had important players who will be UFA's this summer, and neither had signed a new contract with their respective teams. Bob Gainey choose to not trade Sourey and runs the risk of losing him for nothing this summer. Kevin Lowe choose to trade Ryan Smith and received prospects and picks for the future. Which decision for these two GM's was the right one? Edmonton fans are probably very upset at losing another key leader. From what I heard yesterday from Bob Mckenzie the two sides were only a few hundred thousand dollars apart but they both played hardball and wouldn't give in. Mckenzie says there are hard feelings on both sides now and this will not be a pleasant parting. But for the future Edmonton probably came out ahead. For Montreal, we still have a key piece of our team for the PP and for the playoff run. But we may lose Sourey for nothing this summer and will have lost a very important opportunity, and one that doesn't come around all that often, to get some really good players. I think in Montreal's case we won't know for sure until this summer. In order for this to have been a good decision, first we have to make the playoffs. Secondly, we must do some damage and not get knocked out in the first round. Thirdly Sourey must resign with Montreal. But if we don't make the playoffs and then we don't resign Sourey and he walks for nothing, then I think we will have made a very bad decision that will affect us for a few years. We'll all know this summer and then we'll know which of these two GM's made the right decision.

First, I think you are wrong. We had the opportunity to get a couple of draft picks (which we have lots of), or perhaps a young, struggling prospect. In Gainey's opinion, he was not going to sell off this season when we are in the playoffs for a couple of future picks. Perhaps is the cupboard was bare in the sense that we were very short picks, he would have done it, but that is not the case. He has enough picks to get the right players, if they draft well.

People forget that this is a business and even making the first round makes a lot of money for the Habs. Second round is a bonus, and beyond that is giddy time.

I think it also says something about the organization. Look at Florida and Edmonton. Free agents will avoid them like the plague because they look like crap teams with a long rebuild in front of them. We have to change that mindset about Montreal if we are to be attractive to top players in the FA market.

So even if Souray walks at the end of the season, we got good return from him if he helps us make the playoffs and free agents start to think of Montreal as a team on the way up, not the way down...

The real mistake Gainey made yesterday was not getting an experienced goaltender to ensure we do make the playoffs. Are odds are significantly lower if we are going to rely on Halak and Abbey to get us there. Both have shown they are not going to steal any wins for this team.

[JLP]

Souray is having a career year and his value had to have been high, because he wasn't traded I'm inclined to believe some sort of agreement has been made. I mean it's natural that management and his agent have been talking, perhaps a range has been outlined and where the dollar figure falls will depend on his performance through the rest of the season, but yes, you're right, only time will tell if this is the case, and if Bob made the right choice.

personally, I have faith in Bob :hlogo:

[BCHabnut]

If Souray wants to stay, and Bob wants him back, I think he will be signed. I doubt Gainey wil lose a bidding war over Souray, unless the price is crazy high. I think Gainey was wise. They have a crack at the playoffs, and when they win, it's usually because of their powerplay. Souray is their top power play guy.

[mathieu30]

If you can give me all the details, related documents & information, I would be happy to answer your question.

All kidding aside, I think it's nearly impossible to answer that question. The only info we have is the information that comes from the press.

This makes it hard -in my humble opinion- to judge who was right/who was wrong. For me, that is.

Mr. Gainey is getting older, but I'm pretty sure he still knows what he's doing.

Go :hlogo: go!

[habs rule]

First, I think you are wrong. We had the opportunity to get a couple of draft picks (which we have lots of), or perhaps a young, struggling prospect. In Gainey's opinion, he was not going to sell off this season when we are in the playoffs for a couple of future picks. Perhaps is the cupboard was bare in the sense that we were very short picks, he would have done it, but that is not the case. He has enough picks to get the right players, if they draft well.

People forget that this is a business and even making the first round makes a lot of money for the Habs. Second round is a bonus, and beyond that is giddy time.

I think it also says something about the organization. Look at Florida and Edmonton. Free agents will avoid them like the plague because they look like crap teams with a long rebuild in front of them. We have to change that mindset about Montreal if we are to be attractive to top players in the FA market.

So even if Souray walks at the end of the season, we got good return from him if he helps us make the playoffs and free agents start to think of Montreal as a team on the way up, not the way down...

The real mistake Gainey made yesterday was not getting an experienced goaltender to ensure we do make the playoffs. Are odds are significantly lower if we are going to rely on Halak and Abbey to get us there. Both have shown they are not going to steal any wins for this team.

Very well put. I could not agree with you more.

[MAK]

I think that kevin lowe got the best in a tough situation. got nilsson, o,mara and a fairly placed 1st round pick. besides, smyth will sign back home come july 1st.

as for gainey, he got scared to trade away a player that he's already lost and thats not worth the money he'll get.

Edited February 28, 2007 by marky_and_komi

[Mont Royale]

besides, smyth will sign back home come july 1st.

as for gainey, he got scared to trade away a player that he's already lost and thats not worth the money he'll get.

I think it's unlikely that Smyth will be back. Besides the rumours of hard feelings, Smyth will also be determined to prove that his value is consistent with his demands to Edmonton, and another team will ante up.

I don't understand your second point at all. If Souray's 'already lost', why would Gainey be scared to trade him? Why would Gainey be scared to do anything?

I think it's quite possible that both Lowe and Gainey made the best decisions for their clubs, because the circumstances are not the same at all. (Of course, they both could have blown it, too.) Time will tell.

[MAK]

I think it's unlikely that Smyth will be back. Besides the rumours of hard feelings, Smyth will also be determined to prove that his value is consistent with his demands to Edmonton, and another team will ante up.

I don't understand your second point at all. If Souray's 'already lost', why would Gainey be scared to trade him? Why would Gainey be scared to do anything?

I think it's quite possible that both Lowe and Gainey made the best decisions for their clubs, because the circumstances are not the same at all. (Of course, they both could have blown it, too.) Time will tell.

because he didn't want to be the one to say that they drew the line on the season while being in 7th spot in the eastern.

with all those teams having games on hand on montreal, it,s likely that mtl end up 9th overall even if they aren't playing.

[Easy Ryder]

Edmonton and Montreal are not in the same situation at all.

Edmonton have no chance of making the playoffs.

Montreal has a really good chance of making it. The other teams are not that flashy either, Toronto, Carolina, Isles can all lose by themselves as much as Montreal can.

Even team with bigger flashy player are not that sure of making those playoffs.

I would have a big laught if the Isles or Atlanta not making playoffs after all they have given for just making it.

[CBHabs_fan]

If Bob made the right move, I think it is yet to be apparent. I mean some of you say that he didnt want to give up on the playoffs and Souray is a key figure. I agree and respect that route of action but not without the addition of some more scoring.

I mean if we are risking the loss of this guy for NOTHING (which we are....dont kid yourself), for a playoff run......then lets bolster up for a playoff run!!! Just cause we won a few games leading up to the deadline does not make us offensively sound....last night is evidence of that.

I know this same opinion has been stated...but I dont think it can be overstate.

We didnt buy, we didnt sell....what the hell did we do??

And please guys. dont reply about how proud you are of Bob for not trading for the sake of trading. I would have liked him to trrade for the sake of OFFENSE, and for the sake of protecting the risk you just made by keeping Souray...Will you all still be proud if: a) We dont make the playoffs B) We lose Souray to free agency ( Both good possibilities)

ps. I am scared about this weekend

[Wamsley01]

Edmonton and Montreal are not in the same situation at all.

Edmonton have no chance of making the playoffs.

Montreal has a really good chance of making it. The other teams are not that flashy either, Toronto, Carolina, Isles can all lose by themselves as much as Montreal can.

Even team with bigger flashy player are not that sure of making those playoffs.

I would have a big laught if the Isles or Atlanta not making playoffs after all they have given for just making it.

It is true that we are caught in between. Edmonton sold because they had no choice.

But IF...a big IF...But IF the goal is the Stanley Cup then this was a terrible decision.

The Habs are a real longshot to hoist it this year. So if you come to the decision that we are playing for a couple of home dates to line George Gilette's pockets than what type of moves should have been made?

1. Acquiring a Goaltender to get us there

2. A 1st/2nd line center

3. A puck moving defenseman

The Habs acquired none of these. So can we make the assumption that the goal is not the playoffs?

Now if the goal is rebuilding and forgetting this season then what type of moves should be made?

1. Trading Souray for prospects and picks

2. Trading Rivet for prospects and picks

OK, so the Habs did one of those. We must be rebuilding then. But with all the picks flying around a real rebuild would involve Souray right. So is the goal rebuilding?

What changes are going to be made for next year to turn an 8-10 seed into a contender?

Kostitsyn/Lapierre/Grabovski?

If we resign our Free Agents we will not be any different than we have been this year next season.

Is this progress? Should I begin my parade route in the next 10 years? Where is the direction?

These are Toronto Maple Leaf moves people. Would you like to wait another 25 years for a Stanley Cup in downtown Montreal? Trying to rebuild while sneaking in as an 8 seed who has no hope is pointless.

Resigning Souray/Bonk/Johnson is suicide!! If and when this team competes is when the Kids compete for a Cup and as good as Bonk/Johnson are, we need to develop the youth and see if we are close to competing.

We missed opportunity one to move forward yesterday. Opportunity 2 will come this summer.

[OneSharpMarble]

I think they both made mistakes.

If Smyth resigns with the oil then KLowe made a hell of a deal, they were out of the playoffs anyways. If he doesn't he gave away the heart of his team and probably destroyed team chemistry for years.

Now Gainey could have gotten a sweet deal for Souray (don't tell me one wasn't there, I don't believe such BS) but then we would have supposedly "given up" on the playoffs. Well guess what! When Huet went down for the season we were basically running on fumes, this team barely shows up we aren't going anywhere. So he got nothing for him, resigning him will be a mistake and letting him leave for nothing is also a mistake.

Expect the exact same team next season, nothing will change and we will be fighting for 8th again.

[ch_nl]

Can't say Im happy about yesterday. I was hoping for something to happen.

The Islanders got Smyth for Robert Nilsson and picks. I can't stop thinking what Smyth could have done in Montreal. Even if it's just a rental I think the Islanders got him cheap. Compare it with Rivet and the San Jose trade.

Plekanec and a first round pick and maybe another throw-in prospect might have been enough? In my opinion Ryan Smyth would even be worth more to our team.

Im really trying to figure out what happened, but I guess time will tell. Did Bon try to get a boost or did he want to sell Souray but couldn't get what he asked for in return?

Or did he dump Rivet just to clear cap-space so he can resign Souray? And why did he claim Leighton without moving another goaltender? There's no doubt that Montreal has too many goaltenders that has the potential to be solid starters.

[shortcat1]

if i had been in gainey's place yesterday, i'd have tried to trade away souray & kovalev. samsonov would have been on my mind also but i doubt that he would have been taken. I would have gone for as many young promising kids and draft picks as possible (without being ripped off, of course...).

there's pros and cons to that, of course... but there you go... there's pros and cons to whatever decision one makes.

now, all that taken into consideration, i don't think gainey did wrong. he took a risk like i would have taken a risk... we'll see how it works out for him... if it does, great... if it doesn't, life goes on and we all move on that's all...

GO :hlogo: GO!

Edited February 28, 2007 by shortcat1

[Sir_Boagalott]

Who says that either is wrong?

Like said, completely different situations. Edm little chance, but the Habs still have a shot at playoffs. Only 4 poins back of 4th at the deadline. You people really think trading would be UFA's at the deadling when only 4 points out of 4th will help bring UFA's to Montreal?

The only thing I dislike aboot what Bob did is that I beleive he should end his policy on not negotiating contracts during the season.

The only reson why Edm was able to pull off the Smyth trade was because he had just refused Edm latest offer. Similarily I also beleive the same type policy also helped keep Tucker in T.O. Tucker resigned resonably and wasnt traded, but Smyth refused to sign and was dealt.

Now what will happen with Souray? Who knows, but Bob must have privately had some talks with him and his agent, if not that should probably change. Teams give up the advantage in contract negotiations when they actively refuse to talk during te reg season. It's truely a great leverage point to resign just before trade dead line, or you might get moved.

[kenadian]

How can you judge things 1 day after the deadline?

I think we'll have to wait till at least the end of the season to revisit this topic......maybe even a year or 2 down the road, given that prospects/picks were involved.

[Wamsley01]

Who says that either is wrong?

Like said, completely different situations. Edm little chance, but the Habs still have a shot at playoffs. Only 4 poins back of 4th at the deadline. You people really think trading would be UFA's at the deadling when only 4 points out of 4th will help bring UFA's to Montreal?

The only thing I dislike aboot what Bob did is that I beleive he should end his policy on not negotiating contracts during the season.

The only reson why Edm was able to pull off the Smyth trade was because he had just refused Edm latest offer. Similarily I also beleive the same type policy also helped keep Tucker in T.O. Tucker resigned resonably and wasnt traded, but Smyth refused to sign and was dealt.

Now what will happen with Souray? Who knows, but Bob must have privately had some talks with him and his agent, if not that should probably change. Teams give up the advantage in contract negotiations when they actively refuse to talk during te reg season. It's truely a great leverage point to resign just before trade dead line, or you might get moved.

I'll tell you what brings Free Agents to a city. MONEY!

Havlat re-upped with Chicago not because they are a good team, but because they gave him 6 MILLION reasons to. He could have become a Free Agent after the year. Why play for Bill Wirtz and 7,000 empty seats? 6 MILLION dollars is why.

If you offer Daniel Briere 6 Million a year to play, he will listen. These guys do not play for discounts in their prime. Zdeno Chara and Marc Savard signed with an organization that dealt Joe Thornton away for nothing 5 months earlier. What did that say about the franchise? and why did that not affect their decision?

Here is your answer: 7.5 MILLION AND 5 MILLION reasons!!!

These players don't have any idea what each team is doing. They are concerned with themselves first and foremost. If Montreal offers Briere 6 Million a year and Detroit offers him 6 MIllion a year Detroit will probably win. But if Montreal offers 6.5 Million a year and Columbus offers 6 Million. You better believe he would be with the Habs.

MONEY is the biggest factor. Do not kid yourself.

[kenadian]

Just watching the Smyth press conference now......

This guy is torn up, you see some guys getting traded and they look like robots answering questions etc... But Smyth is holding back the tears with every word.

This is the kinda guy WE NEED......I don't want to get into the whole Bob should have done this, or that...

But Bob needs to look at him in the off season, IF NYI don't se-sign him!

[Mont Royale]

But Smyth is holding back the tears with every word.

This is the kinda guy WE NEED

We need a crybaby?

[kenadian]

We need a crybaby?

YUP< and someone with a passion for the game..............

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Not getting Smyth, who cares.

Not trading Souray is a more serious issue. IF Bob re-signs him, then it was a good move, and consistent with the overall commitment to rebuilding. As I said in another thread, if every season you trade away every quality UFA on your roster, you're not rebuilding, you're perpetually treading water. Rebuilding is consistent with re-signing quality, relatively young UFAs and may even require it.

Look at it this way. We developed Souray. Two seasons ago, he broke out. But not until this year has he found true consistency in his game and become a true leader in the room. He's fully matured as a hockey player. So just as we reap the rewards of developing him, we dump him? That's NOT rebuilding.

Still, if we lose Souray at year's end, then this WAS a stupid move. We won't be able to assess until then.

[kaos]

Both guys made bad decisions, but I can live with Gainey's. How does Kevin Lowe trade the face of the franchise? Unless he comes back and signs in Edmonton in the offseason. Then Lowe looks like a geneious and Gainey like a fool

[bobby]

Well, at least Bob Gainey and the Montreal Canadiens organization aren't getting ripped apart on the Jim Rome show as we speak. Rome made a mockery of Edmonton and the organization passing itself off as a team with a great history and trotting out former stars. All of them, from Gretzky to Smyth have been dumped unceremoniously if the team thought it could profit from the exchange. Rome is right on this one.

Organizations who treat human beings like pork shares at the stock market end up paying for it. Almost no player wants to go to Edmonton, and not just because it is a dumb, frozen, redneck city.

[Habsy]

Well, at least Bob Gainey and the Montreal Canadiens organization aren't getting ripped apart on the Jim Rome show as we speak. Rome made a mockery of Edmonton and the organization passing itself off as a team with a great history and trotting out former stars. All of them, from Gretzky to Smyth have been dumped unceremoniously if the team thought it could profit from the exchange. Rome is right on this one.

Rome get's it, I agree with him. There's talk they were only $300,000 apart.