The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) But Plekanec has "passed" Koivu in the second half of this season in the eyes of most observers, don't you think? Why would we assume that he won't continue that next year? Pleks will turn 25 at the start of next season, he should be hitting his prime. Why not have him as the #1 centre with Koivu dropping back a notch at the tail end of his career? That is pretty close to being the defacto situation as it is. Whichever line Plekanec has centred over the past couple of months has been more productive than the line Koivu has centred. Pleks as #1 C, based on 30 games? No thanks. Furthermore, to my knowledge Pleks was always regarded as a blue-chip prospect but not as an elite #1 C in the NHL. Nobody was going, 'ooo, Tomas Plekanec, here comes a dynasty in the making.' This isn't Sidney Crosby we're talking about. And besides, THIS TEAM HAS SUCKED ASS FOR THE ENTIRE SECOND HALF with your supposedly dynamic duo of Plekanec and Koivu. So we shouldn't sign Briere because those guys are so good? Now I know what you're gonna say. 'Cuke, you're forgetting the INEVITABLE ARC OF LINEAR PROGRESSION that will see Plekanec blossom into a star. Pleks next year will build on what he's done this year, mushrooming into Pavel Datsyuk.' Sorry, but I just don't believe in this Iron Law of Player Development. The most frequent scenario is that players progress in fits and starts, gradually building into consistent performers, if they ever do. So a more sensible strategy is to sign a Briere type, move Pleks to the third line, and then - if it becomes clear that he's a scoring machine - ease Koivu out to pasture over the next 2-3 years. At that stage Pleks will be 27-8 and clearly ready for the Next Step, a second line C to our proven ace Briere, or even a 1A, if he has it in him (which I doubt). (Incidentally, Briere proves the case against this 'Iron Law of Player Development.' He was cut by two teams because they believed him too small to play effectively in the NHL. So much for 'projections'). Edited March 8, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 The fact that Briere is scoring a point a game at the age of 30 doesn't mean that the teams who cut him in the past were so far wrong. He brings nothing else to the table. Who cut him anyway? I thought that the Coyotes traded him for Chris Gratton. Gratton was third overall pick in his draft year, that isn't exactly giving Briere away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I see the pressing need of a #1 center but I just hate the idea of losing Bonk. If he played the wing I'd put him as one of our most untouchable players. After Souray, he was probably our MVP so far this season. It would just be such a shame to part with him. I think Gainey will bring him back, though I'm not sure how we'd be able to work things out if he did. We have too many centers i nthe system, especially bottom line defensive centers. Eventually he'll have to be moved to the wing (after 10+ NHL seasons at C? I doubt it) or he'll have to leave Montreal. I really look at it a completly differnt way I HOPE BONK IS NOT RESIGNED, because I am sick and tired of the Canadiens playing defensive players more than offensive ones. I get frustrated when the Canadiens playing games where Bonk and Johnson get more ice than Koivu or Kovalev. I want the Canadiens to play like Buffalo, Tampa and other teams that play offensive first. The Habs have the speed, talent and youth to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 I want the Canadiens to play like Buffalo, Tampa and other teams that play offensive first. The Habs have the speed, talent and youth to do so. That isn't likely to happen with the top four hockey guys being Bob Gainey, Guy Carbonneau, Kirk Muller, and Rollie Melanson. Nor is it a shortcut to success, I don't believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Also, that's how it is in the salary cap era. You HAVE to rely on young guns to fill up parts of your roster that you'd rather have filled up with the Bonks of the world. Or at least, you have to do that if you want to sign a major UFA. Unlike bobby, I think this team needs a bona fide #1 C and will go nowhere until it gets one; so that means losing Bonk (or some comparable player, I suppose), at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revin5 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I think that the Pleks/Datsyuk comparison is pretty apt. Datsyuk didn't do much until his third year, before that he had pretty much the same stats (although Pleks is looking like more of a goal-scorer so far). I remember watching Datsyuk in the 2001-02 playoffs and watching him make an absolutely amazing move before losing the puck. I knew then he would be a great (or at least very good) player in a few years. Pleks has shown flashes as well, but he'll always be stronger along the boards and better defensively... although I don't think he comes close in passing ability, still he has made a few that made me wonder. Plekanec Regular: 2006-07 Montreal NHL 67 16 21 37 +5 2005-06 Montreal NHL 67 9 20 29 +4 Playoffs 2005-06 Montreal NHL 6 0 4 4 Datsyuk: Regular 2003-04 Detroit NHL 75 30 38 68 -2 2002-03 Detroit NHL 64 12 39 51 +20 2001-02 Detroit NHL 70 11 24 35 +4 Playoffs 2003-04 Detroit NHL 12 0 6 6 +1 2002-03 Detroit NHL 4 0 0 0 -3 2001-02 Detroit NHL 21 3 3 6 +1 When taking a look at the assists, it would do well to remember which team each player was with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 plekanec's a great addition to the team... i hope that the other young ones will progress like him... GO :hlogo: GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 Plekanec with almost 22 minutes of playing time tonight. Versus 17 1/2 for Koivu. That makes 4 games in a row that Pleks has seen more ice time. Say hello to your new #1 centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 wow! at the start of the season plex was no where near our #1 center but how things can change... lets see if he can hold on to that responsibility by being consistent and productive. GO HABS GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Looks like it is moving that way good for Plekanec he was flying out there with Kosty and Higgy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Plekanec with almost 22 minutes of playing time tonight. Versus 17 1/2 for Koivu. That makes 4 games in a row that Pleks has seen more ice time. Say hello to your new #1 centre. He's earning it...outplaying Koivu on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 He's earning it...outplaying Koivu on a regular basis. and who was on the PP in the 3rd ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) If Plex become our # 1 centre... say hello to a looooong slump... What we need at centre is for example Brière, Koivu, Plex and Lapierre. Sorry Bonk good job but too expensive and not enough skills comparing to Plex. Edited March 14, 2007 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 If you throw out Kovalchuk and Spezza from that 2001 draft, Pleks is right there with any of the other forwards drafted in terms of offensive production this season. He is as good a defensive forward as anyone in that draft as well. They already had their Daniel Briere (Mike Ribeiro) and discarded him because he couldn't play defense and was too scrawny. Actually Ribeiro produced more at the same stage than Briere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by a hair Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I think a good nickname for him is "T-Plex". :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Looks like it is moving that way good for Plekanec he was flying out there with Kosty and Higgy. I was really enthusiastic about their game too... but let's not forget that main reason for their succes was because they were playing vs Hill and Witt, both too slow to stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canajun Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 T-Plex... that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsmith Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Briere? I love the guy, but I would be absolutely shocked if BG went out and signed another undersized player, especially a center. We already have Koivu and Pleks plus Grabovski in the system. If we add Briere then we likely need to move two of those players. And while converting them the wing is a possiblity, that's the place we're already stacked with talent. Hell Kosty couldn't even find a spot this year, and he sure as heck needs on next year. Pleks is a consumate team player, a takeaway specialist who causes endless trouble for the other team on the ice and aboslutely no trouble for his team off it. I say he has to stay, and to me that means the one UFA we won't be signing is Danny Briere. Of course time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsmith Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Everyone overlooks Maxim Lapierre. He is going to play for the Habs for the next 10 years or so, and could be the future captain. He is the one who will replace Bonk in time, and Kyle Chipchura isn't doing too badly in Hamilton. Chipchura is putting up similar first year numbers to Lapierre. The only thing that could derail Chipchura from making the team could be Ryan White. Or Ben Maxwell. White in particular, looks like a player who could stick out of training camp next year or the following year. Watched White play last night. He sure didn't look ready to make the team next year. I'm not knocking him, he just looks and plays like the teenager he is. Latendresse made it so young because we desperately needed strength up front and he's freakishly strong. White's a great prospect, a steal where we got him and he's doing everything right to make the NHL in good time, but I don't see him having a snowflake's chance in hell of making the team next year. Not with the guys ahead of him. Maybe in a perfect world the year after. One thing I notice is that most prospect rankings still rate Maxwell notably higher than White. I don't know him so I can't comment, but that's pretty darn encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 If you throw out Kovalchuk and Spezza from that 2001 draft, Pleks is right there with any of the other forwards drafted in terms of offensive production this season. He is as good a defensive forward as anyone in that draft as well. They already had their Daniel Briere (Mike Ribeiro) and discarded him because he couldn't play defense and was too scrawny. Actually Ribeiro produced more at the same stage than Briere. The 2001 Draft was not exactly a great draft. But saying that Plekanec is producing at the same rate as all the other forwards from that draft is not exactly accurate. Finding many active NHL forwards in that draft was not exactly easy. But Pleks still finishes down the list. 2007 STATS Mike Cammalleri - 1 PPG Kyle Wellwood - .864 PPG Ales Hemsky - .857 PPG Jason Pominville - .812 Derek Roy - .77 PPG Ryan Clowe - .717 PPG Brandon Bochenski - .68 PPG Stephen Weiss - .661 PPG Peter Cajanek - .64 PPG Mikko Koivu - .633 PPG Tuomu Ruutu - .603 PPG TOMAS PLEKANEC - .571 PPG But one again I do not feel that stats alone fully reflect the story. Pleks plays in an offensive stifling system as opposed to Pominville and Roy. Would Pleks have more points playing on Buffalo? Would Roy have the same with the Habs? Who Knows. Comparing Pleks to other forwards in a draft lacking many offensive superstars is not really saying much and does nothing to predict his future offensive upside. Look at Marek Svatos last year. He was averaging .85 PPG and was one of the top rookies in the NHL, now he is struggling in his second year. What does that say about his potential for next year? Are their comparables that you can accuarately predict his next 2-3 seasons? Was he a fluke? Is Plekanec better than him now? Would your comparables have compared him to Pavel Datsyuk last year? because at 24 their stat lines looked like this: Datsyuk - 51 Points in 64 GAMES Svatos - 50 Points in 61 GAMES If charting future success was this easy then we would all be GMs. Just a little extra for you Latendresse at 20 is averaging .467 PPG Cam Neely at 20 averaged .541 PPG We have a HALL OF FAMER on our hands boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 Tomas making a late run for team MVP. With all due respect to Sheldon Souray, I think I would vote for Plekanec at this time. It will be an amazing story if Plekanec and Halak end up saving the habs's season between the two of them. Hard to find two less likely candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummerman Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 How bout we nickname him Plekanec the mechanic? Anyways he is not a great passer but if Koivu had anything like the precision of the mechanic's shot, Koivu would be a superstar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldon_sniper_44 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 It will be an amazing story if Plekanec Kostitsyn and Halak end up saving the habs's season between the two of them. Hard to find two less likely candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 What makes Kostitsyn so unlikely? He was a top 10 draft pick. Not a 3rd rounder like Plekanec, or a 9th rounder like Halak. Not to mention, what exactly has Kostitsyn done to "save the season"? One goal in 15 games. I think even that overpaid p.o.s Kovalev has done that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 What makes Kostitsyn so unlikely? He was a top 10 draft pick. Not a 3rd rounder like Plekanec, or a 9th rounder like Halak. Not to mention, what exactly has Kostitsyn done to "save the season"? One goal in 15 games. I think even that overpaid p.o.s Kovalev has done that much. Last time I checked, an assist is worth just as many points as a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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