Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) It's the hardliners that irritate me. My brothers ex-wife was nationalist as was her whole family. On one occasion while visiting them we had the occasion to go over to their home for a get together. It was my sister-in-laws invite. Too bad her parents were being polite but would rather not see us. For you see, we are english. Some prefer it more honest and open. Don't invite if you feel as badly as you do. And don't "suck it up" and decide to have us (put up with it) when you are going to behave that disgustingly. What an interesting experience for me. I got a first hand look and feel for how a Nationalist thinks and feels. Her father (if looks could kill I tell ya...) gave me a rotton look when I thanked them for the meal. I even said merci for crying out loud. I was 7 years old for petes sake. As we were eating and socializing afterwards all of the conversation was french. They were proficient in english but were not speaking it in our presence. Too bad for them (they had no clue) that my mother is fluent in Parisian French. On the way out she made a brief comment on what they had said about us and she made a snarky political point too. That was the end of that relationship. Edited March 25, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 lol sounds like me and my extended family, ac. Nobody but their opinion should be talked about. ugh I hate those type of narrow minded people. Tunnel vision is not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) It's the hardliners that irritate me. My brothers ex-wife was nationalist as was her whole family. On one occasion while visiting them we had the occasion to go over to their home for a get together. It was my sister-in-laws invite. Too bad her parents were being polite but would rather not see us. For you see, we are english. Some prefer it more honest and open. Don't invite if you feel as badly as you do. And don't "suck it up" and decide to have us (put up with it) when you are going to behave that disgustingly. What an interesting experience for me. I got a first hand look and feel for how a Nationalist thinks and feels. Her father (if looks could kill I tell ya...) gave me a rotton look when I thanked them for the meal. I even said merci for crying out loud. I was 7 years old for petes sake. As we were eating and socializing afterwards all of the conversation was french. They were proficient in english but were not speaking it in our presence. Too bad for them (they had no clue) that my mother is fluent in Parisian French. On the way out she made a brief comment on what they had said about us and she made a snarky political point too. That was the end of that relationship. Sounds like they were indecent people more than anything else. Regardless of anyone's political opinions, it is just bad breeding and lowlife behaviour to let politics poison the discourse of a social and familial, let alone have politics to outright rudeness (to a 7 year old kid no less). Regardless of what I think of someone's politics, I would never let that dictate my behaviour if I found them as my neighbour at a dinner table. Just be polite and talk about something else for christ's sake, instead of ruining a civilized gathering. Edited March 25, 2007 by Dirty Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) They are a good people. This particular group was annoying for sure. I don't wish to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It was just a sad experience. I'm sure everone has a story like this. I've also met some soft Nationalists and they are far more reasonable and I like their passion better. How does english visiting equate into that convo? I remember feeling high tension the whole time I was there. My mother didn't care about the politics of it. She's from Europe. To her it was absurd and she thought she'd let them know. Edited March 25, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN, boy do i have a similar story. When i used to live with my parents, we had some new neighbors move in. This was 5-6 years ago, i was still in my teens. Anyway, the neighbors move in next door, we greet them as nicely as we can. Engage in small talk, say hello whenever we see them, i think we even invited them over for supper one time. They had some teens that were my age whom i socialized with and even played Hacky sack with in our driveway. Then one day, they heard us talk in english. They let it 'slide'. Then again, as we were getting in the car as a family to go somewhere, we were talking in english. "Ah non, des esti d'anglophones, tabarnaque..." they must have thought to themselves, because quite suddenly they stopped talking to us. Even less when one day we were talking in Portuguese. I can only imagine they were thinking "shit, c'est même pas d'l'anglais qu'ils parlent... criss d'immigrants..." Anyway, they started avoiding us, ignoring us, gave us the cold shoulder when we'd say "hello" out of politeness. Eventually we gave up and just stopped saying hi. My answer to their attitude was to plant a flag poll in my back yard and put up my Canadian flag outside every summer. I know this pissed them off greatly because i heard them make a few comments amongst themselves while i was on the other side of the tool shed. Anyway. I don't want to label all separatists as racists, which is something i don't believe anyway (i have lots of separatists friends who are genuinely good people) but it sure does seem to me whenever i meet someone racist, they're always separatist. /p'tite histoire pas rapport Anyway.. one more day to go! EDIT : Oh, one other thing, you know what pissed them off the most? (I was't trying to do this to annoy them, it just so happens they took offense..) I bought a Quebec flag too, and during St-Jean festivities, i replaced my Canadian flag with my Quebec flag. They gave me some pretty hateful looks for a while because of that. I also overheard them saying something like "Kesé qu'il fait a mettre un drapeau du Québec.. c'est pas pour lui". The thought that an "anglo immigrant" (even though i was born in Montreal and speak Quebecois as good as anyone, accents, swears included) could possibly be "enjoying" la fête nationale, whoa. This was insulting to them. Truth is, i love Quebec every bit as much as i love Canada, and i firmly believe St-Jean is for ALL Quebecers, not just separatists. So my Quebec flag proudly flew for a week in summer (and every week, since). Edited March 25, 2007 by Cataclaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) Right on Cataclaw. They are the few but it really makes you feel like you're eating crow. In ROC it's no different. I have lived all across Canada and have politically defended Quebec in all of my arguments. I have found that (you wouldn't believe how bad it is) amongst ignorant people that they are very ill natured toward Quebec. Then when meeting the super ignorant you find they can be right down vicious. It saddens me...The Canadian Challenge...Le défi Québecois. Edited March 25, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Right on Cataclaw. They are the few but it really makes you feel like you're eating crow. In ROC it's no different. I have lived all across Canada and have politically defended Quebec in all of my arguments. I have found that (you wouldn't believe how bad it is) amongst ignorant people that they are very ill natured toward Quebec. Then when meeting the super ignorant you find they can be right down vicious. It saddens me...The Canadian Challenge...Le défi Québecois. You got that right. Even though I'm clearly not a Francophone (I have a good grasp of the grammar, but my vocab sucks), I've lost count of the times I've been accused of being a Separatist and told to go back to Quebec...simply because I cheer for a hockey team from Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Yeah. Some things will never change... but don't forgot, those people are in the minority. Most Canadians love Canada, and most of them love Quebec too. I was reading about the 1995 referendum unity rally in the dying days before the referendum, people from all over the country swarming downtown Montreal to show their love for Quebec. Touching. (Even if they had 90% discounts on tickets that.. bah i won't get into that. The Oui side did some unfair stuff too..) Remember this flag? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) This is an interesting subject. I've always maintained that people who hate Quebec to go and have an open mind, have a good time and when you come home you'll realize how cool it is. IMO, to understand Quebec, one must visit Quebec. In my experience, most people who have crappy opinions on Quebec have never been there. It's a totally different world. And it's cool Edited March 25, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I didnt expressed myself correctly I meant than Quebecers wont vote for separation. The 49.4 they got in '95 is the highest they will ever go. The interest for the cause just isnt theyre anymore, or else the PQ would be winning very easilly next Monday. Theyrefore the only way Québec ever separate from Canada is if the rest of the country kick us out. oh, i see your point now. Well I'm not sure about that, why it can't go higher than 49.4. We'll see I guess. The PQ will have to make the idea of a country accepted by all the population, not only the French population. Probably by adapting their vision of nationalism and go from an ethnic to a more civic definition. They have to prove how and why having a country will benefit the whole population. Those are facts and numbers. The conversation about nationalism can go beyond each others feelings and be rational and intellectual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 You got that right. Even though I'm clearly not a Francophone (I have a good grasp of the grammar, but my vocab sucks), I've lost count of the times I've been accused of being a Separatist and told to go back to Quebec...simply because I cheer for a hockey team from Montreal. or that your last name is french. I was called a nazi in school, which I hated just because my grandpa drove a truck in the Austrian wing of the german army in World War II does not make me a nazi. Then I'd bring up my grandma and great aunt stories about being persecuted after the war and that still didn't change people's mind. Now I'm labeled an anti-american. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 oh, i see your point now. Well I'm not sure about that, why it can't go higher than 49.4. We'll see I guess. The PQ will have to make the idea of a country accepted by all the population, not only the French population. Probably by adapting their vision of nationalism and go from an ethnic to a more civic definition. They have to prove how and why having a country will benefit the whole population. Those are facts and numbers. The conversation about nationalism can go beyond each others feelings and be rational and intellectual. Reasons it won't ever get above 49.4 - the question was confusing, 'lobster trap' - many people in the polls do not want full independence. The polls have shown that people are more soft-nationalists then anything for example you do a poll that says should Quebec be autonomous but still in Canada you'd get a lot of support but if you say "Do you want a completely independent Quebec, with no ties to Canada" you'll get around 25 to 30% support for it. Much like the '80 referendum results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 There is a permanent, solid 30% base that will always be in favor of independence. And about the same amount whose sold out to federalism. So the game is played in the middle 40% who can swing from one side to another depending on the context. Right now, those 40% dont wanna hear about seperation... ... BUT you get a, say, Stephane Dion Premier and a streak of bad blood between Ottawa and Quebec and you'll see some of those 40% start to join the separatist camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 There is a permanent, solid 30% base that will always be in favor of independence. And about the same amount whose sold out to federalism. So the game is played in the middle 40% who can swing from one side to another depending on the context. Right now, those 40% dont wanna hear about seperation... ... BUT you get a, say, Stephane Dion Premier and a streak of bad blood between Ottawa and Quebec and you'll see some of those 40% start to join the separatist camp. Yeah that's for elections. Referendum's are a whole other animal. Somebody could vote for the PQ and then vote No in a referendum. Basically you've just insulted the Quebec voting public by saying they go with the wind. There are 3 camps federalist automonist separatist You are either for or against I don't see how there could be an 'independent' on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) There are 3 camps federalist automonist separatist I disagree with this whole autonomist thing. Either you're an autonomist who leans federalist and wants Quebec to gain certain powers (aka you're actually federalist) or you're separatist who sees autonomism as a first step towards a separated Quebec (aka you're actually a separatist). Black or white, there is no "in-between" as both Charest and Boisclair were quick to point out in the debate. Either you're for or against separation. Either you're for or against abortion. Either you're for or against stem cell research. There is no gray area, not for these kinds of issues at least.. Edited March 26, 2007 by Cataclaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I disagree with this whole autonomist thing. Either you're an autonomist who leans federalist and wants Quebec to gain certain powers (aka you're actually federalist) or you're separatist who sees autonomism as a first step towards a separated Quebec (aka you're actually a separatist). Black or white, there is no "in-between" as both Charest and Boisclair were quick to point out in the debate. Either you're for or against separation. Either you're for or against abortion. Either you're for or against stem cell research. There is no gray area, not for these kinds of issues at least.. It's a premiere in this thread : i totally agree with you Cataclaw ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Basically you've just insulted the Quebec voting public by saying they go with the wind. The Quebec voting public is ignorant and very thin skinned. There are plenty of justifiable insults to say about them. Warning, say it civilly. -JLP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 so when will the results come in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Three-way race hobbles separatists - Chantal Hébert - thestar.com Here's Chantal's take today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Three-way race hobbles separatists - Chantal Hébert - thestar.com Here's Chantal's take today Read that first thing this morning. I like how you can read everything that's in the toronto star for free on like the G&M. So how long doing you think its going to take for Duccepe to declare he's leaving Ottawa for Quebec City? I say about an hour after the results are in. If the PQ gets below 30% and Duccepe jumps the BQ, is the BQ dead? I don't see anyone in the wings that could replace him. Funny, last election was a full out assault on the Liberal party, this upcoming election is going to be the siege of the BQ. The federal parties (Tories, Liberals, NDP, Green) are the sharks and the BQ is the wounded whale with massive bleeding. it's feeding time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) Just read Chantal's article. Based on this I would like to wish all my fellow quebec habs brothers and sisters the best for todays vote. And remind you to go out and vote. Execise your civic right to vote for a strong quebec and strong nation. A provice with a strong govt. ie. majority would make it easy for the province lobby the feds. There by establishing a strong nation. In the past Quebec has not got her fair share from the Feds. Recently, we have seen the benifits of working together with the Feds for a strong Quebec. Lets keep the good times rolling. GO Quebec GO! Edited March 26, 2007 by Chips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) GAME DAY! About 12 hours to go until we know the outcome. Game summary: Period : Pre-game PLQ : 0 PQ : 0 ADQ : 0 Shots on goal: PLQ : 0 - PQ : 0 - ADQ : 0 Edited March 26, 2007 by Cataclaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 So anybody have any seat predictions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 look what I found in a google search from the Belfast Telegraph Quebec's Le Pen' likely to make major election gain A young conservative populist sometimes described as Quebec's Jean-Marie Le Pen is likely in today's election to throw a spanner into the separatist versus federalist competition that has dominated Quebec politics for decades. Polls indicate Mario Dumont's Action démocratique du Québec (ADQ), a small fringe party for the past three elections, is about to seize the balance of power in the first minority parliament in 129 years. The ADQ has side-swiped the separatist Parti Quebecois and the ruling federalist Liberals, led by Jean Charest, by exploiting a backlash against multiculturism, especially Muslims. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/wor...icle2393716.ece hmm Dumont a Le Pen? that's a bit of a stretch I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 look what I found in a google search from the Belfast Telegraph Quebec's Le Pen' likely to make major election gain A young conservative populist sometimes described as Quebec's Jean-Marie Le Pen is likely in today's election to throw a spanner into the separatist versus federalist competition that has dominated Quebec politics for decades. Polls indicate Mario Dumont's Action démocratique du Québec (ADQ), a small fringe party for the past three elections, is about to seize the balance of power in the first minority parliament in 129 years. The ADQ has side-swiped the separatist Parti Quebecois and the ruling federalist Liberals, led by Jean Charest, by exploiting a backlash against multiculturism, especially Muslims. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/wor...icle2393716.ece hmm Dumont a Le Pen? that's a bit of a stretch I think. Le Pen is a right-wing extremist. Dumont is a center-right fiscalist. Who makes up this junk? So anybody have any seat predictions? I'm going for a PQ minority government with the ADQ holding the balance of power. I'm also predicting this will only last a year and in the new 2008 elections we'll have a majority ADQ government thanks to defections from the PLQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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