Season ends ... what now?

[bobby]

Marky, if he was Danny Bryar from Flin Flon, do you honestly think his name would pop up in every free agent thread on the board? Do you really think that knowledgable habs fans would be saying "What the team really needs is a 5-10, 180 pound, soft, one dimensional forward, who will be 30 years old to start next season. Pay him ANYTHING, just get him here!"? :? How much different is he from Koivu, Plekanec, Grabovski, or even bleeping Corey Locke? Locke is around the same size, had some huge junior seasons comparable to Briere, and his stats in the AHL this season as a 22 year old are similar to what Briere did in the AHL at that age. Same for Grabovski.

[matsnaslundsuperfan]

Marky, if he was Danny Bryar from Flin Flon, do you honestly think his name would pop up in every free agent thread on the board? Do you really think that knowledgable habs fans would be saying "What the team really needs is a 5-10, 180 pound, soft, one dimensional forward, who will be 30 years old to start next season. Pay him ANYTHING, just get him here!"? :? How much different is he from Koivu, Plekanec, Grabovski, or even bleeping Corey Locke? Locke is around the same size, had some huge junior seasons comparable to Briere, and his stats in the AHL this season as a 22 year old are similar to what Briere did in the AHL at that age. Same for Grabovski.

Hey Bobby,

Are you in any way related to 'Beckham'? Posters who have been on this site would know what I'm talking about. In fact, I'm just about ready to call you out.

I've enjoyed reading your stuff, keep up the great work. I'm a fan!

MNSF

[brobin]

Pleks is no Briere, and never will be. Why you think Pleks is going to suddenly become an 80 to 100 point offensive machine is beyond me. He played well and has a great future as the 3rd line center on a good team, perhaps a 2nd line center on a weak team.

Briere is a star in this league, regardless of language, based on his performance! I guess you wouldn't want St. Louis either, he is too small...

Sure glad the Flyers loaded up on big guys.. did them wonders. (at least in the draft order....)

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If I remember right, Bobby has long been a believer in evaluating young talent by simple comparative mathematical extrapolation. So if player X went from 20 points at age at 23, and became a 100-point player by age 25, IT IS AN ABSOLUTE IRON LAW that any Habs player who gets 20 point at age 23, is predestined also to get 100 points by age 25. Therefore, Pleks is the new Datsyuk because his point totals are similar to those of Datsyuk at the same age.

The logic is completely ludicrous, but hey, everyone is entitled to their pet theory. I believe that Nostradamus predicted that Bob Gainey would win the war on Iraq single-handedly, myself.

And I don't recall anyone on this board hysterically urging Gainey to spend $7 mil on Briere. What I recall are arguments that (1) we need a #1 C; that (2) Briere is a #1 C and that (3) therefore we should try to sign Briere. That's not the same as saying that we should sign him at ANY COST.

The size thing also strikes me as silly. Briere is a committed, intense, and elite-skill player - we need all that, and who cares how big he is? But Bobby does make one good point. It's true that Briere has really only exploded as a top-10 player in Buffalo. He DID score 32 goals with Phoenix and was an impact guy, but he only bagged (I think) 65 points that year. So it IS worth asking whether his totals may be inflated by playing in Buffalo. If so, we might end up paying big dough for someone who turns out to be a second-line C.

Then again, I thought the same thing about Marc Savard in Atlanta - that he was a product of Kovalchuk. How wrong I was.

Edited April 13, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[BCHabnut]

You guys are both right in some ways, and Bobby, you are wrong in some ways IMO. I think people are hyping Briere, because he is the most prolific UFA centreman this season. Not because he is franclaphone. Having said that, I don't think he is a good fit with this club. His speed would definitely fit in, but he needs a second forechecker with him in the zone, and I know that Carbo will not allow that. Also, what Bobby said is correct. We bring stars down for some reason. The only superstar I can remember signing that performed well for us was Bobby Smith. And we even brought him down. He had 4 point per game seasons in 5 years with the stars, and 3 point per game seasons in 10 years with the Habs. All the other stars stars we have signed have been a disapointment. The habs' real stars have always come up through the ranks.

I think that if the Habs sign anyone from Buffalo, it will be Drury. I would love to see Smythe in a Habs Jersey as well, but I honestly think you will not see a prolific forward signed with the candiens. Look for a solid 2 and 3 D man to be signed this summer.

[CBHabs_fan]

Although I disagree Bobby's direct comparison between players, based on stats at the same point in each player's respective careers (eg. Pleks vs Briere at 24), I think he deserves at least some consideration of his point.

I want a superstar here as much as anyone else (Why didnt we push for Vinny). But I too am hesitant about giving Briere $7 million. He is better than anyone on our team, but who knows how he plays when he gets here. We know how the track record of players coming to montreal is...It's a different world.

I also agree that some of his merits are a product of the system. I mean look at the seasons that these guys are having there....Drew Stafford? Briere is talented, but I wouldnt bank on 95 pts in MTL.

That being said, I would be very excited to have him or any other proven superstar here..

[BTH]

I would actually prefer Drury to Briere. Both are guys who would fit in on a #1 line but Drury is a more complete player, is a leader and is also a premiere playoff performer. He's the perfect fit for this team. Of course, we can't expect him to score 40 goals with us but he could hopefully score 30 and take a lot of the pressure of Ryder (who currently has to score all the goals), Koivu and could even prove to be a good linemate for Kovalev. He's also an awesome guy, works hard and has all that stuff going for him - Briere is the type of player that is prone to laziness and only fits in under a certain offensive system - e.g. Sergei Samsonov.

Signing Drury would also be more credible since Briere is going to be Buffalo's priority and I really believe he will re-sign with them. Then they will not have the capspace to keep Drury.

[brobin]

Although I disagree Bobby's direct comparison between players, based on stats at the same point in each player's respective careers (eg. Pleks vs Briere at 24), I think he deserves at least some consideration of his point.

I want a superstar here as much as anyone else (Why didnt we push for Vinny). But I too am hesitant about giving Briere $7 million. He is better than anyone on our team, but who knows how he plays when he gets here. We know how the track record of players coming to montreal is...It's a different world.

I also agree that some of his merits are a product of the system. I mean look at the seasons that these guys are having there....Drew Stafford? Briere is talented, but I wouldnt bank on 95 pts in MTL.

That being said, I would be very excited to have him or any other proven superstar here..

Don't look at a year and a half in the league. Also, take into account ice time. Briere was never given 2nd line time in his second year with the Coyotes.

Go back and look at their entire hockey careers. Briere was a top scorer in the junior and minor leagues. Pleks has never been even a point a game player at any level of hockey. While he might just be a late bloomer, I think the odds are long of him ever matching Briere's totals.

[CBHabs_fan]

Don't look at a year and a half in the league. Also, take into account ice time. Briere was never given 2nd line time in his second year with the Coyotes.

Go back and look at their entire hockey careers. Briere was a top scorer in the junior and minor leagues. Pleks has never been even a point a game player at any level of hockey. While he might just be a late bloomer, I think the odds are long of him ever matching Briere's totals.

??? Like I said, you cant compare Briere and Plekanec based on their NHL stats to 24 years old. I realize Briere is a better offensive player, which is the point I was disagreeing with Bobby.

[brobin]

??? Like I said, you cant compare Briere and Plekanec based on their NHL stats to 24 years old. I realize Briere is a better offensive player, which is the point I was disagreeing with Bobby.

doh! sorry, I quoted the wrong post!

[Dalhabs]

If Latendresse can develop quick and become a solid 1st line powerforward I think Koivu would easilly be our no. 1 center. I also think that Pleks is good enough for 2nd line material as well. If Latendresse doesnt develop enough I think we should sign a 1st line winger who doesnt take nights off

[InsaneHABSfan]

I agree with BTH. Drury would get 30 goals with the Habs as he would not put up with the cycle the puck crap Carbo imposes on the forwards all the time. He is a good player who can make plays and would make a second line click.

[Partisan]

I,m a french canadian and i really believe we shouldnt go for a center but a strong winger real 1st line and leader. I say do whatever you can to get Ryan Smyth, hes a leader, hes a forechecker, he has a steady points per season, good on PP and more important, he can go in front of the net to deviate shots and take rebounds better than most elite players in the nhl in my view.

What do you guys think?

[Habsfan24]

I,m a french canadian and i really believe we shouldnt go for a center but a strong winger real 1st line and leader. I say do whatever you can to get Ryan Smyth, hes a leader, hes a forechecker, he has a steady points per season, good on PP and more important, he can go in front of the net to deviate shots and take rebounds better than most elite players in the nhl in my view.

What do you guys think?

Agree 100%

[MFT77]

Hopefully Markov and Souray are resigned. Then the rest of the d-man can slot into place.

Markov Komisarek

Souray Streit

FA/trade Dandy

Gorges

Get rid of Bouillon and replace him with a mobile and better puck-moving d-man. Also adding someone with some grit and a mean streak would be great.

[Mont Royale]

Get rid of Bouillon and replace him with a mobile and better puck-moving d-man. Also adding someone with some grit and a mean streak would be great.

I would have more patience with Bouillon. His season was disappointing, but better toward the end, which leads me to believe he wasn't ready when he came back from injury. As far as the points you mentioned, he has reasonable mobility and puck-moving skills, and definitely has grit and a mean streak.

I wouldn't be upset if Dandy and/or Streit were not part of the defence (even if it was because one or both found a way onto a forward line). An upper tier UFA defenseman to reduce Souray's minutes would be ideal.

[Chris]

Ok Folks, let's be honest here, a lot of debate on the D on here and i am obviously one of the few who want to blow up the D. So let's go with some facts: The D has been a problem for years, so stop blaming the system. The Canucks, Devils, Minnesota and Dallas all run the same system and they have no problem making the playoffs.

As a group of 6 they are slow, soft, can't pass the puck, clear the zone, skate with the puck, aren't physical and don't win enough battles. Other then that they are fine.

Bouillon: Great body checker along the boards otherwise doesn't bring anything to the table.

Dandenault: great speed and good size, unforunately he doesn't use them to his advantage. When the puck is on his stick he is worthless. I like him at forward.

Souray: Great Shot, unless he is shooting the puck he is worthless. Please don't tell me he is tough, a couple of fights and taking roughing penalties after the whistle isn't tough.

Komi: Great size and uses it, hits well, decent mobility for a big guy. He gets caught out of position alot and loses some battles in front of the net. Was a plus player and should be kept.

Markov: Great at about everything, clearly the best Habs D. This year i thought he was caught out of position and didn't play as physical as in the past.

Streit: Good improvement this year, too small and soft to be a full time D. Good on the PP, smart player and moves the puck pretty well.

Gorges: Godd skater and moves the puck well, pretty smart. More playing time will help, needs to toughen up and win some battles.

As a group of six there are only 5 teams i can think of that the Habs are better then.

Columbus

Chicago

Boston

LA (that will change with the Johnson's signing)

Toronto

Phoenix is honorable mention.

28th in shots against and middle of the pack in shots blocked. They play way too much in there own end.

[InsaneHABSfan]

As a group of six there are only 5 teams i can think of that the Habs are better then.

Columbus

Chicago

Boston

LA (that will change with the Johnson's signing)

Toronto

Phoenix is honorable mention.

28th in shots against and middle of the pack in shots blocked. They play way too much in there own end.

Chris, good summary of your view.

I am in agreement that if Souray is not signed, then so be it. I like the man, he is a great guy to have on the team but the $$$ that some teams will throw at him will be just too much to match. Dandy and Boulion can both be traded and I would not shed a tear. This team defensively just did not measure up => NO PLAYOFFS!

I will watch with great interest how Mr. Gainey shapes the roster for next year. I just do not want to see Montreal get handcuffed with another overpaid player. Koivu, Kovalev, Samsonov, Dandenault etc... then we will be like the Laughs with no future.

[Easy Ryder]

Ok Folks, let's be honest here, a lot of debate on the D on here and i am obviously one of the few who want to blow up the D. So let's go with some facts: The D has been a problem for years, so stop blaming the system. The Canucks, Devils, Minnesota and Dallas all run the same system and they have no problem making the playoffs.

As a group of 6 they are slow, soft, can't pass the puck, clear the zone, skate with the puck, aren't physical and don't win enough battles. Other then that they are fine.

Bouillon: Great body checker along the boards otherwise doesn't bring anything to the table.

Dandenault: great speed and good size, unforunately he doesn't use them to his advantage. When the puck is on his stick he is worthless. I like him at forward.

Souray: Great Shot, unless he is shooting the puck he is worthless. Please don't tell me he is tough, a couple of fights and taking roughing penalties after the whistle isn't tough.

Komi: Great size and uses it, hits well, decent mobility for a big guy. He gets caught out of position alot and loses some battles in front of the net. Was a plus player and should be kept.

Markov: Great at about everything, clearly the best Habs D. This year i thought he was caught out of position and didn't play as physical as in the past.

Streit: Good improvement this year, too small and soft to be a full time D. Good on the PP, smart player and moves the puck pretty well.

Gorges: Godd skater and moves the puck well, pretty smart. More playing time will help, needs to toughen up and win some battles.

As a group of six there are only 5 teams i can think of that the Habs are better then.

Columbus

Chicago

Boston

LA (that will change with the Johnson's signing)

Toronto

Phoenix is honorable mention.

28th in shots against and middle of the pack in shots blocked. They play way too much in there own end.

Thats why i say it would ne nice to install fear in opponent mind with tthe addition of Emelin and O'byrne.

And another one on the right sideto replace Rivet spot, maybe the return of Rivet himself :puke: with the habs. Or better Brisebois is looking for a contract next year , i didn't boo any player for a long time at Bell Centre.

[rafikz]

Ok Folks, let's be honest here, a lot of debate on the D on here and i am obviously one of the few who want to blow up the D. So let's go with some facts: The D has been a problem for years, so stop blaming the system. The Canucks, Devils, Minnesota and Dallas all run the same system and they have no problem making the playoffs.

As a group of 6 they are slow, soft, can't pass the puck, clear the zone, skate with the puck, aren't physical and don't win enough battles. Other then that they are fine.

Bouillon: Great body checker along the boards otherwise doesn't bring anything to the table.

Dandenault: great speed and good size, unforunately he doesn't use them to his advantage. When the puck is on his stick he is worthless. I like him at forward.

Souray: Great Shot, unless he is shooting the puck he is worthless. Please don't tell me he is tough, a couple of fights and taking roughing penalties after the whistle isn't tough.

Komi: Great size and uses it, hits well, decent mobility for a big guy. He gets caught out of position alot and loses some battles in front of the net. Was a plus player and should be kept.

Markov: Great at about everything, clearly the best Habs D. This year i thought he was caught out of position and didn't play as physical as in the past.

Streit: Good improvement this year, too small and soft to be a full time D. Good on the PP, smart player and moves the puck pretty well.

Gorges: Godd skater and moves the puck well, pretty smart. More playing time will help, needs to toughen up and win some battles.

As a group of six there are only 5 teams i can think of that the Habs are better then.

Columbus

Chicago

Boston

LA (that will change with the Johnson's signing)

Toronto

Phoenix is honorable mention.

28th in shots against and middle of the pack in shots blocked. They play way too much in there own end.

[ShortHanded]

Good analysis Chris.

To me, Komi and Markov are untouchable, everyone else is either a CAN let go (Souray, Gorges, Streit) if he doesn't fit with the bigger plan or a SHOULD let go if possible (Dandy, Bouillon) because they actually just make the D weaker.

If we only improve one aspect of the team for next year, it should be D. Ideally, we can do some MAJOR retooling on D (rebuild it completely around Komi and Marky, and bring in some top end D like Hannan plus Emelin or Valentenko) and make a couple of changes on Offense. But if we can't make ALL the changes we need to make, the D changes should be the priority. The forwards we have on the team and in the system are reasonable to very good, so we could just give the young guys a chance to play and grow together.

[InsaneHABSfan]

I love this thread as there are so many smart people here of different ages that really make this fun. Everyone has an opinion and yes all of armchair G.M.'s are right!

The good thing is that Gainey will make moves that will improve this club to the 2007/2008 playoffs. The team could just smell the playoffs this year and could have made it if we could beat those D@mn MapleLeafs!!!!!!!!!!!! ARGGGGGGGGGGG.....

Edited April 20, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan

[simonus]

maybe emelin can make the team out of camp, but i don't know enough to say...

but from what I hear about O'Byrne, he ain't ready

[Pierre the Great]

Party

[Chris]

Insane Avs Fan, they actually could have made the playoffs if they showed up for more then 20 minutes a night. I can only think of a handful of games where they played well for 60 minutes. The 2 month vacation they took after Xmas didn't help either.

So to blame 1 game out of numerous NO EFFORT games isn't really fair. This team has know one to blame but themselves for the lazy efforts and No shows. This roster and core just doesn't have what it takes to compete at a high level every night.