The Virginia Tech University Massacre

[Fanpuck33]

I wouldn't wish teen years on anyone, even my worst enemy.

I loved my teen years.

[beliveau1]

I loved my teen years.

Same for me - unfortunately there are those who struggle, but that is definitely not the sole propriety of the teen years!

Edited April 17, 2007 by beliveau1

[Athlétique.Canadien]

AC, the guy was 23. I don't think typical adolescent angst/confusion applies in this case - this is mental illness.

I said tween also.

probably has some impact on why this is happening...

I didn't mean this isolated event. In general that this "probably has some impact on why this is happening..."

in the big scope of things.

Statistically in Soc the figures of high suicide run from 16 to 25 years

Edited April 17, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Fanpuck33]

I said tween also.

Tween refers to pre-teens. (darky, this is semantics, not the discussion you mentioned before)

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Sigh, nevermind

[beliveau1]

There has been discussions here on our campus amongst housing administration today as to how a campus can anticipate and deal with just this type of a crisis. The reality is that it simply cannot be done - the very nature of a large sprawling campus dictates that it is extremely vulnerable to such an attack. It is for large campuses, like attempting to protect a large town - almost impossible. Free access from numerous points all over the campus grounds make it easy to go basically wherever one wants. Add to that the fact that many buildings are operating on a 24 hour basis, and the potential exists for problems.....

We deal with a wide range of cultures and an even wider spectrum of unique individuals - some a little more 'unique' than others are - and that creates a lot of interesting situations. We are constantly making decisions, in some cases very unpopular that can cause one to wonder what just might potentially take place? (However one cannot be consumed by such paranoia.) The reality is one does not know why or how - rarely can one who is 'normal' predict such an unimaginable form of behaviour. Most cannot fathom such a barbaric reaction to one's predicament in life?

For a campus it is an almost impossible scenario to prevent. One cannot predict the actions of stupidity & insanity unfortunately. Short of placing an armed guard at the entrance of every building and in every class room/public space, as well as monitored entrances to the campus itself?

The reality is that is very much a possibility that could happen here, as well as on almost any campus across North America. Our worst nightmares visited the campus of Virginia Tech - our hearts are heavy & our prayers are with them.....

p.s. campus flags have been lowered to half mast here today and a moment of silence was held earlier today on campus

[Pierre the Great]

I loved my teen years.

My teen years were hell. 4 schools, 5 break downs, 10 fights prove it. All was being bullied. Only thing I ever did was fight back. Shooting people is not fighting back, that's being insane.

[Pierre the Great]

There has been discussions here on our campus amongst housing administration today as to how a campus can anticipate and deal with just this type of a crisis. The reality is that it simply cannot be done - the very nature of a large sprawling campus dictates that it is extremely vulnerable to such an attack. It is for large campuses, like attempting to protect a large town - almost impossible. Free access from numerous points all over the campus grounds make it easy to go basically wherever one wants. Add to that the fact that many buildings are operating on a 24 hour basis, and the potential exists for problems.....

We deal with a wide range of cultures and an even wider spectrum of unique individuals - some a little more 'unique' than others are - and that creates a lot of interesting situations. We are constantly making decisions, in some cases very unpopular that can cause one to wonder what just might potentially take place? (However one cannot be consumed by such paranoia.) The reality is one does not know why or how - rarely can one who is 'normal' predict such an unimaginable form of behaviour. Most cannot fathom such a barbaric reaction to one's predicament in life?

For a campus it is an almost impossible scenario to prevent. One cannot predict the actions of stupidity & insanity unfortunately. Short of placing an armed guard at the entrance of every building and in every class room/public space, as well as monitored entrances to the campus itself?

The reality is that is very much a possibility that could happen here, as well as on almost any campus across North America. Our worst nightmares visited the campus of Virginia Tech - our hearts are heavy & our prayers are with them.....

Well, if VT had a PA system throughout the campus and alerted the students immediately after the first shooting instead of using email would help.

Second, now I don't know about Waterloo's school layout. But the excuse VT made was that most of their students are in the area transit people. Close the roads into the university. This might be hard but for some schools but for places like UBC or SFU in Vancouver, you could do that.

Third, have emergency call boxes all over campus.

Cards to get into the buildings.

But, you can't do much about student on student violence.

You've already have strict gun laws.

[beliveau1]

Well, if VT had a PA system throughout the campus and alerted the students immediately after the first shooting instead of using email would help.

Second, now I don't know about Waterloo's school layout. But the excuse VT made was that most of their students are in the area transit people. Close the roads into the university. This might be hard but for some schools but for places like UBC or SFU in Vancouver, you could do that.

Third, have emergency call boxes all over campus.

Cards to get into the buildings.

But, you can't do much about student on student violence.

You've already have strict gun laws.

The majority of students live off campus here, just as they did at Virginia Tech. Our residence numbers are somewhat comparable. We have several roads that lead onto campus, but a great deal walk onto campus from numerous corners/sides of a large open, sprawling area. We have call boxes spread throughout the campus. The card access concept is extremely costly - even for just residence areas alone. Not to mention very practical as they are not reliable or practical for such an environment. It is much different from a corporations perspective than a campus surroundings. Video cameras are in many areas too. All kinds of measures are in pace - but the real world does not abide by a set of specific ideal circumstances..... Those measures do not prevent someone intent on mayhem, especially if they are suicidal. There are no earthly repercussions for a suicidal maniac, are there?

Your ideas are all good ones, but I have worked on this campus for 30 years now, and the fact is that people are being unreasonable in expecting to curtail this without the most drastic of measures. Unfortunately a large campus is like a good sized town. The influx of staff & students at the start of the day can be like a miniature rush hour. People are in a hurry and are not focused on much else at that time. It is not as simple as you or anyone else out there might hope it to be. When lunacy takes over the best laid plans go awry more often than not, and the response becomes more reactive than it is proactive? Hindsight is always 20/20 and criticisms based on that are truly unfair.

Did they make mistakes - obviously. One has to be blind not to admit that. I do not for one moment pretend to defend their decisions. But given the situation they acted based on the info they had. The info they had was definitely faulty and badly misjudged. Hindsight tells us it was a horrible mistake.....

As for tougher gun laws - they do little or nothing to target the individual who has criminal intentions. They target the average law abiding citizen. Oh, they make it harder to buy such a weapon legally, but they are still available out there in spite of all the laws.

(p.s. they already ignore fire alarms going off in residences at any time of the day - you can't force them to leave as it is their place of residence! What makes people think they'd pay attention to a loudspeaker system that they probably can't hear thanks to ipods, etc.....)

Edited April 17, 2007 by beliveau1

[Pierre the Great]

I know beliveau1 my second cousin was the number 3 man at Akron University, worked their for 40 years started as a security guard ended up 2 heart beats away from President.

The funny thing is people want more security when what schools really need is more counselors and teach kids how to tell the warning signs from other students.

If the incoming freshman class gets a lecture on HIV and condom use and drinking too much. They can get a lecture on telling when a student needs help.

The student that caused this yesterday was an english major. Now I don't know about you but you can tell what people think through there writing. You definitely can with me.

Turns out this kid kept writing things about killing people, and hating the rich people. The students told him in the class they weren't going to grade his work because it was so messed up.

Now if I wrote a story about killing people with chainsaws. i guarantee I'd get a talking to, because that's not normal.

That's where all these schools go wrong. They don't read the signs of a person screaming for help. Then by the time the person goes through with it, they look back and go omg, what were we thinking. I should have seen the signs.

Because in my opinion these school shootings can't be stopped with security but actually paying attention to emotional signs of the students.

[Pierre the Great]

Va. Tech gunman writings raised concerns

The gunman in the Virginia Tech massacre was a sullen loner who alarmed professors and classmates with his twisted, violence-drenched creative writing and left a rambling note raging against women and rich kids.

A chilling picture emerged Tuesday of Cho Seung-Hui — a 23-year-old senior majoring in English — a day after the bloodbath that left 33 people dead, including Cho, who killed himself as police closed in.

News reports said that he may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

A student who attended Virginia Tech last fall provided obscenity- and violence-laced screenplays that he said Cho wrote as part of a playwriting class they both took. One was about a fight between a stepson and his stepfather, and involved throwing of hammers and attacks with a chainsaw. Another was about students fantasizing about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

"When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of," former classmate Ian McFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site. He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

"We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said Cho's writing was so disturbing that he had been referred to the university's counseling service.

"Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be," Rude said. "But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said she did not know when he was referred for counseling, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws. The counseling service refused to comment.

Full Story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_...a_tech_shooting

[Fanpuck33]

A student who attended Virginia Tech last fall provided obscenity- and violence-laced screenplays that he said Cho wrote as part of a playwriting class they both took. One was about a fight between a stepson and his stepfather, and involved throwing of hammers and attacks with a chainsaw. Another was about students fantasizing about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

Sounds like your average slasher flick to me... That being said, there is a reason I don't like gory, slasher films.

[InsaneHABSfan]

Sounds like your average slasher flick to me... That being said, there is a reason I don't like gory, slasher films.

Ufortunately the American public eats up this type of film. And usually what Hollywood spits out, Canadians eat it up too! I personally do not watch this stuff either, no interest.

[JLP]

Now if I wrote a story about killing people with chainsaws. i guarantee I'd get a talking to, because that's not normal.

That's where all these schools go wrong. They don't read the signs of a person screaming for help.

If you wrote a story about killing people with chainsaws you might get a movie deal.

Much of Western society is screaming for help, sadly the message coming down is that the ultimate way to solve problems is with violence.

[Pierre the Great]

I'm very critical in my english essays. I call out and criticize the 'elitist', american foreign policy, etc just typical anti-american jargon.

And I'll have eye catching titles. Like I wrote an essay which was one giant rant of injustice at my former high school. The mascot was the Crusader. As in the Crusaders. (lutheran school). I titled the essay "Death to the Crusaders."

But I only used the word 'death' as a hook. The rest of the essay was just me the telling what happened at the school, racism, etc. I don't cross that line.

The difference between a person being a critic and a crazy person is that the critic is criticizing out of frustration and is using his or her words as the message and doesn't want to go to violence.

Crazy people are fanatics. They want to ruin people's lives. I don't. That's the difference.

I'm a dove anyway.

[simonus]

And I'll have eye catching titles. Like I wrote an essay which was one giant rant of injustice at my former high school. The mascot was the Crusader. As in the Crusaders. (lutheran school). I titled the essay "Death to the Crusaders."

But I only used the word 'death' as a hook. The rest of the essay was just me the telling what happened at the school, racism, etc. I don't cross that line.

The difference between a person being a critic and a crazy person is that the critic is criticizing out of frustration and is using his or her words as the message and doesn't want to go to violence.

Crazy people are fanatics. They want to ruin people's lives. I don't. That's the difference.

I'm a dove anyway.

so, PTG, if I understand correctly - you are not a mentally deranged murderer? I bet there are a few more differences between you (and I'm going out on a limb here, just about everybody) and the VA Tech killer.

Edited April 18, 2007 by simonus

[simonus]

In my life I have met many people I find disturbing; many people who have produced "art" that makes me want to throw them in the back of my car and deliver them to a psychiatrist... or an asylum.

You know what? None of them, to my knowledge, has ever gone and killed someone. It's not so easy to spot that one person.

Everything I'm hearing from the news is that this is the single worst shooting in U.S. history - I imagine its going to be hard to derive a precedent from it.

[Pierre the Great]

In my life I have met many people I find disturbing; many people who have produced "art" that makes me want to throw them in the back of my car and deliver them to a psychiatrist... or an asylum.

You know what? None of them, to my knowledge, has ever gone and killed someone. It's not so easy to spot that one person.

Everything I'm hearing from the news is that this is the single worst shooting in U.S. history - I imagine its going to be hard to derive a precedent from it.

Its not the worst. 1927 some guy killed 45 people.

But just like everything, some crazy person will want to top it. crazy freaks.

so, PTG, if I understand correctly - you are not a mentally deranged murderer? I bet there are a few more differences between you (and I'm going out on a limb here, just about everybody) and the VA Tech killer.

I love people so that disqualifies me, I think as a crazy person.

I brought my person writings up because after this happened my mom went "well PTG, your going to have to stop the dark humour now, people might think your serious."

Just because I like to use hyperboles doesn't make me a killer.

[Fanpuck33]

Geez, this could have been prevented over a year ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html

[beliveau1]

Geez, this could have been prevented over a year ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html

Still a lot of rampant and sensationalized media speculation out there - but the fact is that when all is said and done, this is a sad and extremely damning comment on the system as it exists today. It appears that when the dust finally settles that this will be a highway littered with incompetence, poor judgements and a far too liberal approach to the problems we face today!

And the sadist truth of all, that can never be changed, is the fact that hindsight is always 20/20.....

[BTH]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266506,00.html

[Pierre the Great]

He was declared a crazy person by the state of virginia

[Habsfan24]

Seems he sent a bunch of pictures and videos to NBC in the two hours between the shooting in the dorm and the other shootings.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?from=ET

[Mont Royale]

Still a lot of rampant and sensationalized media speculation out there - but the fact is that when all is said and done, this is a sad and extremely damning comment on the system as it exists today. It appears that when the dust finally settles that this will be a highway littered with incompetence, poor judgements and a far too liberal approach to the problems we face today!

And the sadist truth of all, that can never be changed, is the fact that hindsight is always 20/20.....

True.

But hopefully, lessons will be learned from this. Changing the way 'the system' deals with the mentally ill could help prevent something similar from happening again (and after Columbine, this, and many other smaller-scale killings, does anybody doubt it will?). That is the only hope for anything good coming out of this tragedy.

[Habsy]

Seems he sent a bunch of pictures and videos to NBC in the two hours between the shooting in the dorm and the other shootings.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?from=ET

It's as though he took the Dawson shootings one step further with video of himself. What's next, filming the actual shooting as it's taking place. And really though, not much can be done to stop this.