Souray weighing contract offer from Habs

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Souray will get at least 5.5 IMHO.

As for him 'hating' to come to Montreal if he signs in the east - dream on, folks. Souray is old-school, a character guy. He will LOVE coming back here and scoring backbreaking PP goals against us every single $#$%^$^#$^$ game. If fans boo him like crazy, he will be even MORE determined to pulverize us. And those who fantasize that Koivu or Kovalev will deke him out of his jock, dream on - first, he's not *as bad* defensively as people around here think; and second, even if he gets deked out Marty Brodeur will save him from embarassment.

Basically, Souray is a pretty good candidate for a potential Habs killer, a la John Leclair. Get used to suffering if he does stay in the East.

Thanks for the encouragement

[xXx..CK..xXx]

You guys hate way too much. It's a business as well as a game, so if Souray decides to play somewhere else that's his perogative. If he signs a better contract elsewhere, then I can't see how you can reaaaaally blame him, and if he gets skrewed and doesn't, then there's nothing to complain about. I'd love to have seen him/see him on the team, but with all bias put aside, offensively he had an amazing season, so I would have been shocked had he NOT tested the free agent market and not the other way around. No need to always crucify players. It's so ridiculous.

[JoeLassister]

Do we have enought space cap to sign him at 5,5 now ???

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Do we have enought space cap to sign him at 5,5 now ???

Gainey is SO DONE with this. Souray is GONE!

[sbhatt]

I think the haters are quickly forgetting that Souray has THE BEST POINT SHOT IN THE LEAGUE. Our PP is not nearly as dangerous without him...and it was the one thing the team could count on most nights last season.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I think the haters are quickly forgetting that Souray has THE BEST POINT SHOT IN THE LEAGUE. Our PP is not nearly as dangerous without him...and it was the one thing the team could count on most nights last season.

Not with 2 minutes to go in game 82. That really ticked me off. He grabbed his shoulder and left the ice - Toronto won.

Some might say that if he was in pain, it's probably better to get off but with so much on the line...? I also didn't appreciate his lackadaical "coast" to the bench - sort a like. "That's it, I'm done here - BYE"

I could be way off here but it still made me wonder

I don't hate him but I'm not happy with him. He virtually said he would be back. He was given a very fair offer.

[ShortHanded]

I think the haters are quickly forgetting that Souray has THE BEST POINT SHOT IN THE LEAGUE. Our PP is not nearly as dangerous without him...and it was the one thing the team could count on most nights last season.

I don't hate Souray at all. I never actually believed him when he said all the "unfinished business" stuff and my comments were more directed at the posters who said "souray says he'll stay, so obviously he'll stay". Souray's a great guy, but he definitely talks the talk... Having said that, our #1 pp did not even get us into the playoffs last year. Is the solution to weaken the one thing we had going for us last year? No, obviously not. but something's got to give and we offered him the same money we offered Hammer. He turned it down. We got Hammer, we need to work with what we've got.

Time will tell whether we're a better team for it, but I would argue that our dependence on Souray's shot, and the fact that our PP was as lethal as it was, let the coaches (Carbo) stay fairly laissez-faire about our AWFUL 5 on 5 play...(a la "hmm, we're really stinking 5 on 5, no problem, we'll score on the PP)... IF Carbo wisens to the fact that we need to play better 5 on 5, maybe he'll instill a system more suited to our players, letting them use their speed, and allowing them to force the other team into penalties based on that speed. I do agree with the argument that our players took LOADS of lazy penalties last year (hooking) or unintelligent ones (roughing after the whistle) but I think part of that had to do with the makeup of the team. Hamrlik is not going to need to hook as often as Souray when he's on, because he can keep up with the other team's forward... Also, it stands to reason that having a second D back there who can make that outlet pass will make a huge difference to our offense on even-strength. Our forwards are fast, our D are relatively fast, but where it all falls apart is the transition game from D to Offense. With Hammer there playing Souray's minutes, we can get the puck up to our forwards and watch higgins/koivu/plex/etc. dash in to the other team's zone

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

For what it's worth, Carbo was reported as being very worried about the team's reliance 5 on 5 last season even when things were going well and the Habs were in the top 10. I don't think the coaches were the issue when it came to our dismal 5 on 5 play; I think it was the players, who were complacent that special teams would win games for them indefinitely. This is another reason Gainey didn't move at the trading deadline - remember his argument that the fundamental 'imbalance' in the team's game would not be solved by just adding a new player? In other words, it's a *team* problem and the players have to wake up and solve it - management wasn't going to let them off the hook.

Just a note.

[ShortHanded]

For what it's worth, Carbo was reported as being very worried about the team's reliance 5 on 5 last season even when things were going well and the Habs were in the top 10. I don't think the coaches were the issue when it came to our dismal 5 on 5 play; I think it was the players, who were complacent that special teams would win games for them indefinitely. This is another reason Gainey didn't move at the trading deadline - remember his argument that the fundamental 'imbalance' in the team's game would not be solved by just adding a new player? In other words, it's a *team* problem and the players have to wake up and solve it - management wasn't going to let them off the hook.

Just a note.

good point. being worried is just the start though... a coach has to find a way to get players to do what he wants. I'm hoping that with a year of experience under his belt, Carbo is better able to get players to follow his system/suggestions. And you're right that one player was not going to make a difference with this team. However, as ppl have noted, Gainey is changing the general direction of the team through the signings he's currently making. While they're not flashy, and we didn't get the first guys we went after, those we have gotten are all hard working, and consistent. More importantly, with the kids who are growing in the system, they've already bought into it, and finally, addition by subtraction in the form of Sammy's leaving (his attitude), and hopefully one of Dandy/Bouillon going (not their attitudes, their play) will make a difference too.

[Wamsley01]

good point. being worried is just the start though... a coach has to find a way to get players to do what he wants. I'm hoping that with a year of experience under his belt, Carbo is better able to get players to follow his system/suggestions. And you're right that one player was not going to make a difference with this team. However, as ppl have noted, Gainey is changing the general direction of the team through the signings he's currently making. While they're not flashy, and we didn't get the first guys we went after, those we have gotten are all hard working, and consistent. More importantly, with the kids who are growing in the system, they've already bought into it, and finally, addition by subtraction in the form of Sammy's leaving (his attitude), and hopefully one of Dandy/Bouillon going (not their attitudes, their play) will make a difference too.

Unfortunately for Carbo he got dropped into a volatile situation and made some rookie mistakes. Maybe he lost the room when he benched Rivet, who knows. But the whole Sammy/Kovy thing is hard to deal with when you are a coach because you need to lean on your veteran leadership. I would have hoped that Carbo, Muller, Jarvis NHL leadership experience would have translated better to the coaching staff but it didn't.

This team is taking on the personality of the coaches and GM. If he cannot make it work with his type of players then I think we will have more of a right to throw him under the bus.

All I want is for this team to work hard. Looking at the roster it looks like that will be achieved. Other than Kovy and maybe Ryder you can not really find any guys that take shifts off. That is a GOOD THING.

Plus, all the negativity surrounding this team cannot trump the possible ascension of Carey Price which I am very excited to see. Call it being a homer, optimistic, but from what I saw in the playoffs this kid is a stone cold killer and I think he is ready to make the leap. When was the last time you could say that the Canadiens had the top prospect in hockey?

Guy Lafleur?

[ShortHanded]

Unfortunately for Carbo he got dropped into a volatile situation and made some rookie mistakes. Maybe he lost the room when he benched Rivet, who knows. But the whole Sammy/Kovy thing is hard to deal with when you are a coach because you need to lean on your veteran leadership. I would have hoped that Carbo, Muller, Jarvis NHL leadership experience would have translated better to the coaching staff but it didn't.

This team is taking on the personality of the coaches and GM. If he cannot make it work with his type of players then I think we will have more of a right to throw him under the bus.

All I want is for this team to work hard. Looking at the roster it looks like that will be achieved. Other than Kovy and maybe Ryder you can not really find any guys that take shifts off. That is a GOOD THING.

Plus, all the negativity surrounding this team cannot trump the possible ascension of Carey Price which I am very excited to see. Call it being a homer, optimistic, but from what I saw in the playoffs this kid is a stone cold killer and I think he is ready to make the leap. When was the last time you could say that the Canadiens had the top prospect in hockey?

Guy Lafleur?

I agree with just about everything you said, especially the bit about Rivet. And this year, in terms of Carbo, he'll have molded the team into his type of players, and (other than Kovy) gotten rid of the dissension, as well as have that year of coaching experience under his belt. This is the year he has to make it work. If they work hard, then it's working... If he loses the team, then I will doubt his coaching ability...

[Chris]

You guys can keep complaining aboput Carbo all you want, i said it before he isn't going anywhere. They won't make the playoffs again this year, the top end guys aren't good enough. They haven't been for years. I like the moves, the one thing you will see is hard work, better 60 minute efforts. You will also see more hitting and forechecking.

I had no problems with Rivet being benched, his play deserved it. His character showed through after he was benched, he was traded, that says alot. Kovalev will never change but the habs are stuck with him 2 more years.

Souray is gone too, for all his talk i was about the only one who didn't beleive him and new he would take the money and run. See ya. I guess with know one jumping to pay him 6 mill he isn't worth as much as he thought. Worst plus minus in the league will do that.

Patience everyone. It is one more year before you see the good results of drafting.

[ShortHanded]

You guys can keep complaining aboput Carbo all you want, i said it before he isn't going anywhere. They won't make the playoffs again this year, the top end guys aren't good enough. They haven't been for years. I like the moves, the one thing you will see is hard work, better 60 minute efforts. You will also see more hitting and forechecking.

I had no problems with Rivet being benched, his play deserved it. His character showed through after he was benched, he was traded, that says alot. Kovalev will never change but the habs are stuck with him 2 more years.

Souray is gone too, for all his talk i was about the only one who didn't beleive him and new he would take the money and run. See ya. I guess with know one jumping to pay him 6 mill he isn't worth as much as he thought. Worst plus minus in the league will do that.

Patience everyone. It is one more year before you see the good results of drafting.

I don't know whether or not they'll make the playoffs, but hte comment I made is "If they work hard, it's working". I was looking for the work, not the playoffs this year necessarily.

The thing I worry about if we're following the buffalo model of building from within is that the same thing happens to us as happened with Buffalo... They were REALLY good last year, and they've just lost all their top guys to UFA... Obviously, the way to build in the new NHL is to build from within, but if you develop all these players and then lose them, that's not gonna help you be a perrenial contender is it? I hope Gainey identifies the new core as they come up and locks them up to long term deals and they develop a loyalty to the team and the city a la Stevie Y in Detroit... This is important, or we'll end up looking like Buffalo on the down curve, not just the upcurve...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't know whether or not they'll make the playoffs, but hte comment I made is "If they work hard, it's working". I was looking for the work, not the playoffs this year necessarily.

The thing I worry about if we're following the buffalo model of building from within is that the same thing happens to us as happened with Buffalo... They were REALLY good last year, and they've just lost all their top guys to UFA... Obviously, the way to build in the new NHL is to build from within, but if you develop all these players and then lose them, that's not gonna help you be a perrenial contender is it? I hope Gainey identifies the new core as they come up and locks them up to long term deals and they develop a loyalty to the team and the city a la Stevie Y in Detroit... This is important, or we'll end up looking like Buffalo on the down curve, not just the upcurve...

Interesting point, but we'll see who Buffalo has to replace those guys. It wouldn't surprise me if they pull some unheralded youngster out of their system and he produces just fine. But that's the thing, you have to keep a steady supply of high-end young players coming, and if you don't you're gonna suck.

Also - and I stand to be corrected, never having visited the town - but a lot of people who have been there seem to feel that Buffalo is a bit of a hole. My own belief is that once players actually come to Montreal they tend to enjoy the city, which is, after all, probably in the top 3 North American cities for sheer coolness (add NY and San Fransisco to the list); we now have a quality organization with quality people at every level; and if we can translate that into serious on-ice success, I think we will do a better job of avoiding the Buffalo scenario in the future.

Plus the Buffalo thing was their own fault. They should have sewn up Briere for the long-term instead of pettily taking him to arbitration to try and save a mil. Dummies.

[OneSharpMarble]

I am incredibly overjoyed to know Souray isn't coming back, maybe we will have a real power play next season

Adios Souray go sink another team.

[ShortHanded]

Interesting point, but we'll see who Buffalo has to replace those guys. It wouldn't surprise me if they pull some unheralded youngster out of their system and he produces just fine. But that's the thing, you have to keep a steady supply of high-end young players coming, and if you don't you're gonna suck.

Also - and I stand to be corrected, never having visited the town - but a lot of people who have been there seem to feel that Buffalo is a bit of a hole. My own belief is that once players actually come to Montreal they tend to enjoy the city, which is, after all, probably in the top 3 North American cities for sheer coolness (add NY and San Fransisco to the list); we now have a quality organization with quality people at every level; and if we can translate that into serious on-ice success, I think we will do a better job of avoiding the Buffalo scenario in the future.

Plus the Buffalo thing was their own fault. They should have sewn up Briere for the long-term instead of pettily taking him to arbitration to try and save a mil. Dummies.

agreed it was, but I want to make sure that BG signs up the guys who need signing up to long term deals at the right time... Higgins and Komi for two year deals right now was a start, but they both need LONG TERM (4-5) for their next contracts... Lats, Lappy, Kosty, Plex, (I'm throwing out those I think will be the "new core") will also need to be treated the same way. Ryder, though he's one-dimensional, his scenario is the only one we have to reference where a solid young player goes to arbitration every year on one year contracts and now we either trade him for so so value (becuase he's about to be UFA) or we lose him as a UFA next year... My guess is BG doesn't see Ryder as a permanent piece of the puzzle; if he did, he'd pony up a long term, higher paying deal for him, but since we have no other kids in the same position, if we look at his, it's concerning... It'll be interesting to see if Plex chooses arbitration, and if Gainey will give him a long term deal instead.

I'm not sure if Gainey and Plex's agent are negotiating, because the only thing reported on him is they offered him the usual qualifying offer, but if that's all they offered him, then I would imagine he's a little peeved.

and on the other note, yes Buffalo is a bit of a hole (also based on what I hear from those who've been there) and Mtl is DEFINITELY Cool... but they have to come to realize that...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I wouldn't be too worried about the lack of long-term deals to our young guns. Plekanec, Higgins, etc. would be insane to sing to long-term contracts at this point, when no one (including themselves) knows just how good they will become. If you sign Higgins to a six-year deal at $3 million, and he suddenly explodes into a 90-point guy, then he's going to have spent the bulk of his career grossly underpaid and unhappy. I'd expect such players to ink long-term deals NEXT time around when their potential is more fully understood.

[ShortHanded]

I wouldn't be too worried about the lack of long-term deals to our young guns. Plekanec, Higgins, etc. would be insane to sing to long-term contracts at this point, when no one (including themselves) knows just how good they will become. If you sign Higgins to a six-year deal at $3 million, and he suddenly explodes into a 90-point guy, then he's going to have spent the bulk of his career grossly underpaid and unhappy. I'd expect such players to ink long-term deals NEXT time around when their potential is more fully understood.

true. But I do hope BG offered Plex more than just the automatic 10% raise. That's another way to make a player who was EXCELLENT down the stretch unhappy.

[cfposi]

true. But I do hope BG offered Plex more than just the automatic 10% raise. That's another way to make a player who was EXCELLENT down the stretch unhappy.

Exactly...why do you think Ryder's efforts has been decreasing with time. I wouldnt want to put in 110% effort if my team kept giving me minimum raises for leading the team in goals!

[saskhab]

Exactly...why do you think Ryder's efforts has been decreasing with time. I wouldnt want to put in 110% effort if my team kept giving me minimum raises for leading the team in goals!

I think Ryder made about $600,000 in his rookie year, the next year (after the lockout) he got $1m (when a lot of people got paycuts, he got a 66% raise), and last year he got $2.2m (a 112% raise from the previous year). He's gotten a lot more than the minimum raise (which would have been 10% each year from that initial figure, plus a 24% paycut coming out of the lockout).

[Wamsley01]

I wouldn't be too worried about the lack of long-term deals to our young guns. Plekanec, Higgins, etc. would be insane to sing to long-term contracts at this point, when no one (including themselves) knows just how good they will become. If you sign Higgins to a six-year deal at $3 million, and he suddenly explodes into a 90-point guy, then he's going to have spent the bulk of his career grossly underpaid and unhappy. I'd expect such players to ink long-term deals NEXT time around when their potential is more fully understood.

But that is the beauty of locking them in early. They earn more than they are worth at the time. It is a gamble for both teams. Although $3M is to low. $4M per for Higgins for 6 years. Then if he turns into a stud you have a bargain on your hands. If he doesn't $4M is not a contract that will wipe you out.

Dipietro took the security. His risk. Isles risk is that he stinks and they cannot unload his ass.

How good does Kaberle's contract look now? $4.75M per. Even a moron hits gold every once in awhile....JFJ

Exactly...why do you think Ryder's efforts has been decreasing with time. I wouldnt want to put in 110% effort if my team kept giving me minimum raises for leading the team in goals!

I think Ryder made about $600,000 in his rookie year, the next year (after the lockout) he got $1m (when a lot of people got paycuts, he got a 66% raise), and last year he got $2.2m (a 112% raise from the previous year). He's gotten a lot more than the minimum raise (which would have been 10% each year from that initial figure, plus a 24% paycut coming out of the lockout).

Ryder has receieved a rasie every year and his production has not changed. So if anybody should be pissed it should be the Habs. He is chasing the money, I say throw the bag out the door and lock it behind him. See ya Ryder.

[Fanpuck33]

I think Ryder made about $600,000 in his rookie year, the next year (after the lockout) he got $1m (when a lot of people got paycuts, he got a 66% raise), and last year he got $2.2m (a 112% raise from the previous year). He's gotten a lot more than the minimum raise (which would have been 10% each year from that initial figure, plus a 24% paycut coming out of the lockout).

[ShortHanded]

Ryder has receieved a rasie every year and his production has not changed. So if anybody should be pissed it should be the Habs. He is chasing the money, I say throw the bag out the door and lock it behind him. See ya Ryder.

I know what you're saying, but the flip side of that is when he scored 30 goals in his first year, he was grossly underpaid (all rookies playing that well are) and he's taking the team to arbitration every year because they don't offer him what he feels is market value. and as much as I agree that he pretty much brings one dimension, that dimension is PRETTY IMPORTANT, and something we're really short on as it is... Like him or not, right now we can't afford not to have him until we see some scoring from someone else (whether it's Higgins/Kosty breaking out, or a trade we swing for someone who scores...)

[ShortHanded]

I wouldn't be too worried about the lack of long-term deals to our young guns. Plekanec, Higgins, etc. would be insane to sing to long-term contracts at this point, when no one (including themselves) knows just how good they will become. If you sign Higgins to a six-year deal at $3 million, and he suddenly explodes into a 90-point guy, then he's going to have spent the bulk of his career grossly underpaid and unhappy. I'd expect such players to ink long-term deals NEXT time around when their potential is more fully understood.

true. But I do hope BG offered Plex more than just the automatic 10% raise. That's another way to make a player who was EXCELLENT down the stretch unhappy.

I'm quoting myself and eating my words here. Obviously with Plex's signing a 2 year deal (don't know for how much, but sounds like definitely more than his 10% raise) BG isn't cutting corners with him.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Everbody seems to be bitching aboot Souray now because he's "ditched" the Habs. Personally I'm not entirely convinced that Souray is gone.

It's not like he has signed anywhere, so he technically hasnt gone anywhere yet. Bob says he is done shopping, but is retaining a player you had last year really considered "shopping"?

I think they are both just playing mind games with us.

If I was a player, I'd probably do exactly what Souray did. All Souray has done is not taken the 1st offer. When he starts dipping his toe into other teams waters to see whats its like, Habs fans scream foul. Realistically though, how can Souray give the Habs a "home town" discount when he doesnt know what his value is? How do you find out your value? Test the open market via free agency and see what other teams are willing to pay for you. Also, Souray might just be holding off to see if the Habs could become that much more of a contender through UFA signings before he makes his final decision.

I wonder what NJ was offering him? I wont be surprised to see Souray sign for 3/4 of that amount. It'd make almost everyone here look like jack-holes for all the bad mouthing they've been doing aboot Souray.

Either that or Souray will be calling Bob back now to see if he can still get that drink!!