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The Nashville Situation


TheBigRedC

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He vetoed this, its freaking obvious. IF and only IF a team were to move to Canada (which would mean that they've given up on USA market which has been dead for years) he said he would want teams in places that failed before. i.e Winnipeg and most likely way down the line Quebec City.

I've only ever heard Bettman say is was premature to discuss the predators moving to Hamilton because the two owners hadn't even come and agreement on the sale yet.

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He vetoed this, its freaking obvious. IF and only IF a team were to move to Canada (which would mean that they've given up on USA market which has been dead for years) he said he would want teams in places that failed before. i.e Winnipeg and most likely way down the line Quebec City.

You know what's really sad, Pierre, your posts are so ridiculous, you've become nothing more than a punch-line. There was not even a deal in place, nothing to veto.

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You know what's really sad, Pierre, your posts are so ridiculous, you've become nothing more than a punch-line. There was not even a deal in place, nothing to veto.

True, but BUTTMAN is the bag boy for the old boys network and is responsible for his friends having franchises like the ducks and Florida. If you think Buttman has no influence you are kidding yourself.

The old boys network has done it again as Mr RIM is not wanted and a lame ass excuse by the loser owner in Nashville just killed the deal. Something was promised by those old boys and now Nashville will sell to the Kansas City group, move and become another lame ass organization. They just don't care about hockey in non traditional hockey markets; when will Buttman and his old boys network figure this out.

Moral of this story, I hope the idiot in Nashville loses another 50Million and the KC group offers 75Million for the team. Yup the NHL is run like a joke and will continue to be the punch line or punching bag of most sports shows.

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They just need to stick it out in Nashville. The NHL is never going to catch on in the South if they just start moving teams. It takes a long time for a generation to grow up and that's what hockey is doing now, growing up with the kids. Youth hockey is growing and hockey in general is growing. This is thanks in large part to NHL teams attracting people to the game of hockey. Eventually, these seeds will take root, grow, flower, and bloom.

If you're going to move a Southern team, move the Panthers. One hockey team is enough of a seed in the state of Florida.

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True, but BUTTMAN is the bag boy for the old boys network and is responsible for his friends having franchises like the ducks and Florida. If you think Buttman has no influence you are kidding yourself.

The old boys network has done it again as Mr RIM is not wanted and a lame ass excuse by the loser owner in Nashville just killed the deal. Something was promised by those old boys and now Nashville will sell to the Kansas City group, move and become another lame ass organization. They just don't care about hockey in non traditional hockey markets; when will Buttman and his old boys network figure this out.

Moral of this story, I hope the idiot in Nashville loses another 50Million and the KC group offers 75Million for the team. Yup the NHL is run like a joke and will continue to be the punch line or punching bag of most sports shows.

Ok question for you then .. if you were the owner of the Predators and you wanted to sell ... a guy comes in and says " I want to buy your team " ... never puts down a formal offer, blabs to everyone that he intends to move the team, starts to sell tickets for that " moved team " steps on the leagues toes and basically pisses off your fans in Nashville by all the moving babble. Wouldn't you be pissed ? Wouldn't you want a formal offer for the team ? what would have happened if Baslilie had pulled out and not Leopold ? Leopold would be left with a bunch of pissed off fans in a place where it's already hard to get people and businesses to buy tickets.

maybe if Basillie has kept his mouth shut until after he submitted a formal offer to buy the team, waited for it to get approved. then he could have talked about moving the team to Hamilton ... it would have been his choice if Nashville didn't abide buy the lease terms.

And Basillie isn't completely out of the picture.

All Bettman said is he thought is was a little premature to start talking about moving a franchise when said buyer hasn't even put down a formal bid.

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Ok question for you then .. if you were the owner of the Predators and you wanted to sell ... a guy comes in and says " I want to buy your team " ... never puts down a formal offer, blabs to everyone that he intends to move the team, starts to sell tickets for that " moved team " steps on the leagues toes and basically pisses off your fans in Nashville by all the moving babble. Wouldn't you be pissed ? Wouldn't you want a formal offer for the team ? what would have happened if Baslilie had pulled out and not Leopold ? Leopold would be left with a bunch of pissed off fans in a place where it's already hard to get people and businesses to buy tickets.

maybe if Basillie has kept his mouth shut until after he submitted a formal offer to buy the team, waited for it to get approved. then he could have talked about moving the team to Hamilton ... it would have been his choice if Nashville didn't abide buy the lease terms.

And Basillie isn't completely out of the picture.

All Bettman said is he thought is was a little premature to start talking about moving a franchise when said buyer hasn't even put down a formal bid.

But they're going to be sold to the KC group most likely. Which is a very small market. Very small.

Granted he should have kept his mouth shut. It will end up like the Vancouver Grizzlies sale when they were going to come to Saint Louis but Laurie talked too soon and got vetoed.

But isn't it better to be 'upfront' then just buy the team and then move when nobody is expecting it?

Same thing happened to the Saint Louis Blues who should be the Saskatoon Blues but at midnight, a 'mysterious' buyer bought the team to keep in Saint Louis.

In this case its an american vs. canadian scenario.

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But they're going to be sold to the KC group most likely. Which is a very small market. Very small.

Granted he should have kept his mouth shut. It will end up like the Vancouver Grizzlies sale when they were going to come to Saint Louis but Laurie talked too soon and got vetoed.

But isn't it better to be 'upfront' then just buy the team and then move when nobody is expecting it?

Same thing happened to the Saint Louis Blues who should be the Saskatoon Blues but at midnight, a 'mysterious' buyer bought the team to keep in Saint Louis.

In this case its an american vs. canadian scenario.

Well if Baslillie wants the team then he should put his money where his mouth is and offer a formal bid. I highly doubt anyone else would buy the team for as much as Basillie is offering,

Basillie was a little too "up front". If he had only mentioned the fact that he would look into the possibility of moving the team if the lease fell though he might have got a different reaction from everyone. Especially from the guy who owns the team now.

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I think Balsillie made all the noise to 'test the waters' and see if the NHL would block the move if he did buy the team. He doesn't want to buy the team and then be stuck in Nashville.

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No, he'll sell it to someone who wants to move it to Kansas City.

The problem is that Balsillie is doing all this stuff in Hamilton (season ticket deposits, arena deals), but he's yet to sign anything concrete with Leipold, which is what he wants Balsillie to do. Leipold can't legally talk to anyone else about a sale until July 1st, but Balsillie won't make any further moves before then, so Leipold is trying to turn up the heat a little by telling the league that he's got no legitimate offer on the table.

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  • 4 weeks later...

As I've told you guys, Leipold wants to sell to someone who will keep the team in Nashville. And yes, I do realize he exercised the out-clause in the lease if they don't average 14,000 this year, but that is just to keep his options open if nobody steps up to keep the team in Nashville. Using that clause makes it a lot easier to sell the team if nobody willing to keep the team in Nashville makes a good enough offer.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid=33467...mp;service=page

"Predators owner Craig Leipold and representatives of the local group hoping to keep the team in Nashville were to meet Wednesday with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.

Gerry Helper, vice president of communications for the Predators, confirmed Leipold and members of the local group bidding to buy the team were in New York to meet with the commissioner.

'Craig is trying to afford the local group every opportunity to put an offer in place. Beyond that, it's not appropriate to comment further,' Helper said."

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As I've told you guys, Leipold wants to sell to someone who will keep the team in Nashville. And yes, I do realize he exercised the out-clause in the lease if they don't average 14,000 this year, but that is just to keep his options open if nobody steps up to keep the team in Nashville. Using that clause makes it a lot easier to sell the team if nobody willing to keep the team in Nashville makes a good enough offer.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid=33467...mp;service=page

"Predators owner Craig Leipold and representatives of the local group hoping to keep the team in Nashville were to meet Wednesday with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.

Gerry Helper, vice president of communications for the Predators, confirmed Leipold and members of the local group bidding to buy the team were in New York to meet with the commissioner.

'Craig is trying to afford the local group every opportunity to put an offer in place. Beyond that, it's not appropriate to comment further,' Helper said."

You guys are showing a real lack of understanding of the actual process or the politics involved.

I'm sure Leipold would give a local group every opportunity IF they can match, or come pretty close to matching, the offers of the other bidders.

Leipold sent his letter asking the NHL to back down NOT because he is so beholden to keeping a team in Nashville. He did it to send a message to the other owners that if they want to see their NHL franchises rise in "property value" they'll get in line since Ballsillie's offer is so high. Do you honestly believe that he would take an offer that is likely going to be 20%, or 40+ MILLION DOLLARS, less then what Balsillie was offering. Not only that but Leipold doesn't want to lose any more millions this year...he wants out soon...he's trying to force other owners onto his side who don't want to lose an owner who will jack up the value of all franchises.

There is still a lot of political manouvering. Balsillie is actually playing this pretty smart. He's letting it be WIDELY known that he wants to move the team. If he does get in the NHL will likely have no way to stop him from moving the team...regardless of their constitution. If he buys a team and the voting board of governers accepts him with full knowledge of his plans they will likely have no choice but to let it happen. Bettman doesn't want this and he's fighting it every step like a master puppeteer.

Bettman does NOT want another team in Canada. In his opinion there is no more money to be gained in Hamilton. The hockey fans there already spend money on, and watch, the Leafs and Sabres. There is no gain in actual market share for the NHL as a whole in a move to Hamilton. He wants to grow market share, even at the expense of revenues, because he knows that long term this is a better move for the NHL. The only way to grow market share for the NHL is to move into markets and create demand/fans. In South Western Ontario there are fans in place already...great for revenue, bad for market share. His goal is one of long term growth. Personally, I think it's a mistake to walk away from your historical, "domestic" markets with such tunnel vision BUT there is some merit to that line of thinking, no matter what most Canadians would admit. I think Bettman believes that he can move a failed franchise into these markets any time he wants, and it will succeed instantly, so there is no urgency and he can focus on long term growth of their "market share".

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Bettman does NOT want another team in Canada.

Bettman's, an idiot! I'd take Balsillie's cash bank it; allow the rest of the league to enjoy the increase in value of their own teams and use that to justify marketing the league throughout. Let Jim, buy the team and move it. Jim's marketing power and ownership smarts will bring big time credibility to a league that needs it badly. The NHL made a big mistake in treating Jim this way and will suffer if we stick to this lame ass idea of keeping a team in a city that cannot support it.

Bettman needs to pick his battles. When the NHL is fighting for television airtime and more sponsorship and marketing, what does he do; Turn down a potential marketing guru and spit in the face of increased franchise value and future guaranteed revenue.

He should be fired on the spot for this lousy, dumb ass, idiotic, completely biased behavior! I'm sick of it and it needs to end now! The owners need to stand up and sack that bag of spoiled potatoes. They talk about creating a cap to help a league in financial turmoil and then turn down a potential cash cow!

What kinda bull crap are they trying to feed us fans! Someone needs an education in economics! FOOL!

And anyone who thinks the owners are putting Bettman up to this then they too should be taken out and given a few lessons in economics and business. Afterall, they are the ones who are proving to us that this is not a just game any more its about BUSINESS, so then shut up and let JIM buy a team! DAMN FOOLS!

there.. I feel better now.

Edited by Chips
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Bettman does NOT want another team in Canada.

And another team in Canada won't ruin his grand plans for dominating that glorious hockey market in the US. Stop trying to create something that just will not happen over night!.

HOCKEY belongs in Canada!

Edited by Chips
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And another team in Canada won't ruin his grand plans for dominating that glorious hockey market in the US. Stop trying to create something that just will not happen over night!.

HOCKEY belongs in Canada!

I believe that my point was that he realises it can not happen over night. Please actually read and comprehend my post rather then pulling one minor point out of context.

So many people are making this into an issue of Bettman being anti-Canadian but I don't see it that way.

Will a team in Hamilton lead to more TV revenue for the NHL then vs. a US market? Only marginally. It will mean that fans who would normally watch the Leafs/Sabres will watch Hamilton. Which MAY actually lower, or stagnate, the growth of TV/Radio revenues for the other teams. When you factor in that those other teams will lose some opportunity and/or direct revenue then the off-setting loss marginalises, for the NHL, the new TV/Radio deals for a Hamilton team

Will a team in Hamilton lead to more merchandise revenue then a US market? Only marginally. You will see lots of Hamilton merchandise sold but many of those fans were likely buying Leafs/Sabres merchandise previously. These aren't going to be new fans spending new money...they will be people who will stop being fans of other teams and start being fans of a Hamilton team. Thus you are cannibalising revenue from one source and transferring it to another. Great for Balsillie, but not necessarily great for the NHL.

I live in South Western Ontario and I'd LOVE to see another team here. It would be great. However, I don't think Betteman is as far out in left field as people make it out...there is merit to what he's attempting to do in the long term. I think he fully realises that overall it's a little less current revenue and over the next 10 years...but he's hoping that he can drop a team into these US markets, weather a storm for 10-15 years, start a grass roots hockey movement, help build some rinks in these markets, etc...then he'll have people who have grown up with the team and a core group of fans to expand on. THAT would be an entirely NEW market of people who NEVER spent money on league merchandise and that growth leads to TV deals in areas that NEVER would have signed NHL rights.

Now, I don't really agree with where some of the teams are located and other markets probably make more sense in the US...

I'd also love to see another team here...I also think Kitchener makes more sense then Hamilton.

I think the NHL needs to solidfy it's Canadian market further and get back into Quebec City and Winnipeg.

But, ultimately, if the NHL wants to grow to be more then it is...then it needs to grow it's market share of fans and steal them from other sports...in Canada, almost everyone is a fan of some NHL team. So they need to try and create demand in the US if they want to become a legitimate part of the BIG 4 leagues(NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL). Right now, NO ONE can truly say the NHL belongs with those other 3 leagues.

Edited by Zowpeb
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Yeah, I don't see any merit in the idea of not wanting a team in Canada because there are already solid fan bases there. Think about it, which is gonna make more money for the league:

a. A team in Hamilton that will sell out frequently. New team would equal a lot of jersey and merchandise sales. Buffalo and Toronto are strong markets, a team in Hamilton is going to have little effect on those markets.

or

b. A team in Nashville that averages 85-90% attendance, even though it is the only hockey market in the area.

Obviously, choice A would be best for the league. But for overall growth of the sport, Nashville is, indeed, the better choice. Youth hockey has really taken off down there and last year the NHL drafted its first player from the state of Tennesee. This kind of thing is why Bettman wants teams in non-traditional markets. It takes a generation or more to grow hockey in new areas, because it is the kids who are going to be the ones growing up hockey fans, playing hockey, etc. This is why I think the Panthers are the only team who should possibly relocate. The state of Florida would still have Tampa Bay to grow the sport.

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Yeah, I don't see any merit in the idea of not wanting a team in Canada because there are already solid fan bases there. Think about it, which is gonna make more money for the league:

a. A team in Hamilton that will sell out frequently. New team would equal a lot of jersey and merchandise sales. Buffalo and Toronto are strong markets, a team in Hamilton is going to have little effect on those markets.

or

b. A team in Nashville that averages 85-90% attendance, even though it is the only hockey market in the area.

Obviously, choice A would be best for the league. But for overall growth of the sport, Nashville is, indeed, the better choice. Youth hockey has really taken off down there and last year the NHL drafted its first player from the state of Tennesee. This kind of thing is why Bettman wants teams in non-traditional markets. It takes a generation or more to grow hockey in new areas, because it is the kids who are going to be the ones growing up hockey fans, playing hockey, etc. This is why I think the Panthers are the only team who should possibly relocate. The state of Florida would still have Tampa Bay to grow the sport.

Problem is the growth of the league hasn't happen. Bettman is putting hockey where the grass roots support is not there. You cannot succeed without the grass roots to grow on. People have to WANT it. Sorry for the analogy again with Iraq but Bettman's US hockey plan and Bush's democracy for the middle east plan come from the same text book. You only do well when you have grass roots support in anything. You just can't create this by putting a team in a place.

Canada is what's best for the league. Revenue's would go up, because Canada is where the fans are at. About 1 in 10 million here in the states care about hockey. Its dead. Bettman killed it with his expansions. People want familiar names in the stanley cup finals. These expansion teams getting to the finals are bad for the league. They need orginial 6 teams and canadian teams in the finals.

Bettman has destroyed hockey but the problem is he'll continue to sink the ship even more, nobody is going to stop him.

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Problem is the growth of the league hasn't happen. Bettman is putting hockey where the grass roots support is not there. You cannot succeed without the grass roots to grow on. People have to WANT it. Sorry for the analogy again with Iraq but Bettman's US hockey plan and Bush's democracy for the middle east plan come from the same text book. You only do well when you have grass roots support in anything. You just can't create this by putting a team in a place.

Canada is what's best for the league. Revenue's would go up, because Canada is where the fans are at. About 1 in 10 million here in the states care about hockey. Its dead. Bettman killed it with his expansions. People want familiar names in the stanley cup finals. These expansion teams getting to the finals are bad for the league. They need orginial 6 teams and canadian teams in the finals.

Bettman has destroyed hockey but the problem is he'll continue to sink the ship even more, nobody is going to stop him.

But how do you build a grass goots program without a team ? the team is the "seed" and it needs time to grow it's roots. It needs to be fed and taken care of , not taken out of the ground before it's had a chance to grow it's flower.

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The NHL team should be the last step. In a 10 step program.

NHL sponsored youth leagues

then minor league team

then exhibitions during the pre-season

then an ahl team

and then if warranted an NHL team.

I'll second that motion.. hrm.. lets see Hamilton has had a similar type of past... Lets see, yep they should be ready for an NHL expansion team.. or at least a relocation of one...

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I believe that my point was that he realises it can not happen over night. Please actually read and comprehend my post rather then pulling one minor point out of context.

So many people are making this into an issue of Bettman being anti-Canadian but I don't see it that way.

Ok. I do see your point and I don't disagree completely.

However, why not let the NHL continue to draw strength from its base here in Canada and continue to grow in new markets. Now that the formula has been established with the Cap to create an environment for teams to grow and flourish. And I see that you too feel a return of Canadian teams would be a good move. So why pray tell me is the league seeming to be negative on a move back to a Canadian market and pro. US startups? I'm not saying that they should move away completely at the slightest sign of a faltering market in the US. But Nashville has had its shot, the current owner has tried every trick and there just isn't enough of a base presently to maintain a sound financial revenue. How long can you try to keep a team in a market that just does not have support from sponsors or fans? Even in a subsidized system now that the profitable Canadian teams are helping out the rest of the league...

I'm sorry but its not right to go so heavy into a new markets and try to establish a new sport that just does not have the help to thrive. We need to heal as a league and a sport, and regain credibility. The ESPN's of the media will continue to make fun of us as long as we maintain this hopeless attempt to gain a foothold in a market that does not want, understand or believe in our great game. Again I'm not saying we stop cold turkey, not at all but lets not continue to hit our heads against the ice in markets where the ice cannot be maintained, just not cold enough, yet! One day maybe but not today.

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Problem is the growth of the league hasn't happen. Bettman is putting hockey where the grass roots support is not there.

Prove it. Prove to me that youth hockey in places like Tennesee hasn't grown exponentially since the Predators came into the league. In ten years, these kids are gonna be driving, have money, and be buying lots of tickets. As I've said, it takes more than a few years for the sport to grow, it takes at least a generation.

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Prove it. Prove to me that youth hockey in places like Tennesee hasn't grown exponentially since the Predators came into the league. In ten years, these kids are gonna be driving, have money, and be buying lots of tickets. As I've said, it takes more than a few years for the sport to grow, it takes at least a generation.

I don't disagree with you that now. there is some established youth leagues that will develop the love of the game and the passion in the hearts of kids... but don't forget football, baseball and the NBA provide very large scholarships for kids and those established choices as they grow up will be more attractive than a few prof. hockey options available. Hockey is an expensive sport to continue and its not on the afforded list of sports for most families; Add to that negative media in those markets that make it out as the joke of all leagues.. "ESPN" tell me how do kids then strive to be part of that great future? We are attempting this and doing it the wrong way.

Most importantly; are you suggesting that, to help grow a fan base for an NHL franchise we need to go into a new market with a full TEAM and wait 10, 15, 20 years for kids to grow up with a passion for the game so that we can finally make money? and finally draw even? until then who will continue make up the difference? we have only a few Canadian teams making money. I just don't see how we can afford this option...

I'd agree with you that we need to try to expand and get new fans and markets. but not so aggressively and with no solid base to help drive that new growth.

NO Sponsors. NO fan base. NO media. NO owners with deep pockets. must equal no NHL TEAM.

Edited by Chips
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NO Sponsors. NO fan base. NO media. NO owners with deep pockets. must equal no NHL TEAM.

There are teams with far worse fan bases than Nashville, but nobody complains about them. New Jersey is a power house every year and they only ever average 75% attendance. If anything deserves losing an NHL team, that does.

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There are teams with far worse fan bases than Nashville, but nobody complains about them. New Jersey is a power house every year and they only ever average 75% attendance. If anything deserves losing an NHL team, that does.

another good point but they are established and financially are probably better off in being able to maintain and ride a season of below average attendance, but those markets have proven fan bases that will come out at sometime I hope, and if they don't then fair ball; they should be on the chopping block in due course.

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