Chris Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Minus 25 or whatever it was doesn't help him out with the fans. He is a PP specialist at this point. I think people want to see a more complete game from players on this team including Ryder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 What concerns me is last season and his plus/minus numbers. Overall I like the kid and Ryder does help the team on the score sheet and on a team that does not shoot the puck its nice to see someone who can and does try. He's been through a tough road to make it thus far. And his career will be one that always requires him to be on top of his game. I'd give him a long term contract if he was willing to take less cash! That would still give BG the option of trading him if necessary. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. GO HABS GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I know this is kind of obvious....BUT when you do the bulk of your scoring on the PP, you're going to have a bad +/-. I think +/- should include PP, right now it's just a useless stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I know this is kind of obvious....BUT when you do the bulk of your scoring on the PP, you're going to have a bad +/-. I think +/- should include PP, right now it's just a useless stat. If it includes PP it should also include PK to balance it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAKS-AVENUE Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 The front page Ryder article needs an edit or two. It's difficult to read with run-on sentences, missed punctuation, etc. That kind of stuff is fine for the forums, but should be edited for the front page of the site. Kudos for the piece, though. Out of curiosity, is the dislike for Ryder mainly due to his yearly arbitration filings, or is it that people find serious flaws in his game? No, He's a leaf fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 No, He's a leaf fan. We have spies everywhere... too bad we don't have a leaf fan detection system. keep those pesky laughers out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 If it includes PP it should also include PK to balance it out... A PK situation does include the +/- already. If you score shorthanded the defending (PK unit) players all get a plus 1, if you are on the PP and give up a shorthanded goal they get a - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 A PK situation does include the +/- already. If you score shorthanded the defending (PK unit) players all get a plus 1, if you are on the PP and give up a shorthanded goal they get a - 1 Cool! I really thought both special teams weren't included... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 This is kina cool. It can even be used when thinking about the 27 year old Ryder and what he should be paid. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=8663 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 No matter what any of us think, Ryder is an asset and one that has value to the franchise. I hope Montreal can sign him to a reasonable contract that makes him tradeable if he wants to leave. This way he and the Habs win in any future transactions with the player. I saw Ryder put some muscle on for the season last year and actually made some very good checks to keep plays alive in the offensive zone. Many habs fans are just tired of Him or his agent for these last player to sign a contract woes. Do you want to be a habs Mr. Ryder or do you want to leave, please provide an answer before the season starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 This is kina cool. It can even be used when thinking about the 27 year old Ryder and what he should be paid. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=8663 Very interesting study on age vs. goal production. And on a pure goal by goal basis; its valid. But what about other aspects that a player brings to a team. Experience, Leadership, Coaching, Special Teams. Thats not easy to factor into the equation, when deciding money. The market has always dictated salaries.. It does matter what others would pay for the right player at any age. And that drives the free market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Wow, can that graph be any more clearer? :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Wow, can that graph be any more clearer? :| I thought the same thing...but he explains it and breaks it down (without the graph) as you go along. bottom line is Ryder is entering his prime right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I wonder what the graph would look like if you only looked at players after 1980 or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=214057&hubname=nhl Good news on Ryder "Michael's been their top goal scorer two years in a row now," said his agent Thane Campbell. "I think he should be in a range that we've asked for and hopefully an arbitrator sees it the same way." Campbell said his talks with the Habs have been cordial although that didn't mean they would avoid arbitration. "It's certainly hoped that it would be avoided but at this point in time both sides are preparing for it with the expectation that this year it could take place," said Campbell, who spoke with Julien Brisebois, Montreal's vice-president of hockey operations, on Tuesday. "The gap is not a large gap by any means but at the same time we both have reasons why we haven't closed the gap." Not the greatest news but he doesn't sound like a guy who wants out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=214057&hubname=nhl Good news on Ryder Not the greatest news but he doesn't sound like a guy who wants out If the gap between them is not too large then they should settle on a number in the middle. End this nonsense and lets get cracking with preparing for the new season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 If the gap between them is not too large then they should settle on a number in the middle. End this nonsense and lets get cracking with preparing for the new season. agreed. Going to arbitration is poisonous for the relationship, because you end up talking about all the players' weeknesses and faults to try to keep the price down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 agreed. Going to arbitration is poisonous for the relationship, because you end up talking about all the players' weeknesses and faults to try to keep the price down. I know it is only business, however I do not like a players weakness being addressed like this. Hard feelings if the player does not agree? If the $$ figure is so close they should find common ground before dreaded arbitration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I know it is only business, however I do not like a players weakness being addressed like this. Hard feelings if the player does not agree? If the $$ figure is so close they should find common ground before dreaded arbitration! My guess is Ryder is looking ahead to UFA status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I know it is only business, however I do not like a players weakness being addressed like this. Hard feelings if the player does not agree? If the $$ figure is so close they should find common ground before dreaded arbitration! Very good point. Its one thing to speak with a player about his weakness through the season and get him to improve; And a completely different scenario to do it in arbitration and leave a sour taste with a player, who has to suit up for you that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Very good point. Its one thing to speak with a player about his weakness through the season and get him to improve; And a completely different scenario to do it in arbitration and leave a sour taste with a player, who has to suit up for you that season. It's not like Ryder is going to come back to us anyway, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) Takes two to tango...Bob has twice avoided arbitration with Ryder for the very reasons stated here. So it won't just be Bob's fault if it comes to that. Ryder reminds me of Souray in being a hard player to assess - essentially one dimensional, but quite good at that one thing. (Not as good as Souray is at his one thing, though). All I ask is that, if it does go to arbitration, which means Ryder is outta here, Bob does not repeat his catastrophic mistake of not dealing Souray before the trading deadline. Edited July 21, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 There is little chance to avoid arbitration because there is not many players that have up and lows as much as Ryder do. I can only think of 1 player that they can compare him to. Parrish at 2.6650 000$ We desperatly need his scoring touch so we could overpay this salary at 3.3m. More than that it is time to trade him and move on to another player on a first line and first PP wave. Almost anybody with some hands could at least score 25 with that kind of ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Don't worry about the comparables. I'm sure Bob and Ryder (with his agent) have done all their work during contract talks. I'm confident they'll work out a deal before arbitration. If not, I don't like Ryder's odds of sticking in Montreal for a couple of more seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Very interesting study on age vs. goal production. And on a pure goal by goal basis; its valid. But what about other aspects that a player brings to a team. Experience, Leadership, Coaching, Special Teams. Thats not easy to factor into the equation, when deciding money. The market has always dictated salaries.. It does matter what others would pay for the right player at any age. And that drives the free market. It definitely does not factor in all the intangibles, but in the case of Jason Blake it is pointing out that of the top 100 goal scorers of all-time that on average their production declined after the age of 26. The Greatest of All-Time! And that signing a guy who peaked at 33 years of age and had a 15 goal jump (ie. career year) for 5 years $20 Million is crazy. That you will be paying for 40 goals per season and most likely not be receiving anywhere near that production. Since Blake is underpaid for a 40 goal man, the effect is not as bad. But when he is 38-39 years old that contract will be another albatross around the Leafs neck. Nice read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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