The Cube

[SAKS-AVENUE]

One guy I feel good about is THE CUBE. As the salary cap becomes an issue, teams will be forced to find inexpensive talent to fill the holes at the bottom of the barrel. Boullion will definetly give us a solid effort in the barrel every night. He is very underated and understandbly so, given his size.To me he is not only a bulldog but a fierce bulldog. After the crap he went through last year I refuse to judge him on the past season and expect the old Boullion back from the year before. I found myself cheering for him more then Saku sometimes, and even Souray aswell. He just brings something to the game that I love. The pounding sound and rattle of mic'ed hockey boards. The Tucker feud?............I can't wait.......F$%CK I can't wait. Let's get the band wagon rolling.

I feel THE CUBE needs his own appreciation thread ahead of time, before.................... he dummies that meek pesky little bitch.

[mathieu30]

Always liked Bouillon. The fact that he's one of Mathieu Garon best friends has nothing to do with it.

Good player.

Go Cube go!

:hlogo:

[Habsfan24]

2 seasons ago I loved the guy however last season was the first year after he signed that contract which put him under the mircoscope even more. His injury obviously affected his performance early on in the season after training camp (which he did not do) and he never seemed to find a rythem during the season.

I do have high hopes that having the summer off to recover and get ready for training camp that he will return to his old form. If he can return to his old form is would be a massive boost to the Defence and would ease a lot of the concerns I have about our ability to keep pucks out of the net.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

He was a bit of a dog last year, but that's injuries for you. I expect him to bounce back strong, as one of the league's best 5th defencemen. A good season by Cube would be one of those little things that move us from 10th to 7th in the Conference.

[lazy26]

When's he's healthy, the Cube is definitely one of the best 5th Dmen in the league. I still remember that game against Pittsburgh in 05-06, when he destroyed the Pen in his own end, scooped up the puckm deked (I think) Crosby out of his pants, and set up a great play in front of the net... And his fight with tucker always brings a smile to my face.

Let's hope he returns to form this season.

[MFT77]

IF the CUBE does stick around, i do hope for a much better season. However much grit and effort he brings to the club, i have never been a huge fan of his. Seems to me he is always the cause of oppostion goals from his poor defensive coverage or turning the puck over. I think it would be better served with a younger d-man or someone with more size. The Cube tries to play it physical, but is usually overmatched. Don't wanna come across as too negative as I love the Habs, but in order to be one of the upper echelon teams, they is no room on the roster for a player like the Cube, except as a spare d-man, but he is making too much to be one of those. Hope he is gone, sooner the better, and wish him luck elsewhere.

[ch_nl]

Boullion has potential. Real potential. I browsed some stats last season and found that Franky B has one of the worst shots in the NHL. He shots a lot but doesn't score.

He scored a lot in Sweden when he and Ryder played for Leksands IF.

What Im trying to say is that IF Boullion can improve his shot he could become a real force... I don't think he has any big flaws so I love him as number six or seven.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

Boullion has potential. Real potential. I browsed some stats last season and found that Franky B has one of the worst shots in the NHL. He shots a lot but doesn't score.

He scored a lot in Sweden when he and Ryder played for Leksands IF.

What Im trying to say is that IF Boullion can improve his shot he could become a real force... I don't think he has any big flaws so I love him as number six or seven.

It would be nice if he had a great shot but I don't really look to him for that. If all he does is pound people while they try to get something going in our end I'm fine. Boullion is one of those short little stocky guys that are made of pure muscle. He makes you pay the price. There are a lot of big guys in the NHL that don't do that. This year will be better for him. His injury and knee operations, if I remeber correctly healed very slowly and he was way behind schedule as far as his come back dates were concerned. This training camp he will be on fire, knowing there are kids after his spot. Look out for a little square hitting machine this year, I'm telling you. Woooooooohoooooooo!!!!

[Chris]

The cube is not the best 5th D man in the league. He is lucky to even have a job. Only Habs fans think he is the best thing since sliced bread. i'm obviously not as smart as everyone on this board, but i am as smart as 29 other GM's who passed on him TWICE for free. There is a reason for that. If he is the best 5 man, everyone thinks Streit is a great top 4 guy, souray was the next Bobby Orr, Markov and Komi are awesomw, why was this team in the bottom 5 in all defensive stats last year?

Answer: You guys severly over rate these guys. Then you wonder why they never make the playoffs? Totally overated.

I will give credit to Bouillon about hitting players into the boards, he does that well, otherwise he's worthless.

lazy 26, he did that once, get over it. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Markov Komi

Hamrlik O'Byrne

Streit / Gorges Dandenault

They don't even need the cube.

[InsaneHABSfan]

I'm hoping he can play better and stay healthy this year. Not fair to rag on just one player when all the team including Saku played like crap in the second half of the season. Even in the first half, the team was just winning which was not encouraging.

The way I look at it is Cube can play better positionally instead of trying for the big hit. Even my favorite K-REX got caught out of position too many times trying for the big hit and nobody here complains about that.....

[Habitforming]

The cube is not the best 5th D man in the league. He is lucky to even have a job. Only Habs fans think he is the best thing since sliced bread. i'm obviously not as smart as everyone on this board, but i am as smart as 29 other GM's who passed on him TWICE for free. There is a reason for that. If he is the best 5 man, everyone thinks Streit is a great top 4 guy, souray was the next Bobby Orr, Markov and Komi are awesomw, why was this team in the bottom 5 in all defensive stats last year?

Answer: You guys severly over rate these guys. Then you wonder why they never make the playoffs? Totally overated.

I will give credit to Bouillon about hitting players into the boards, he does that well, otherwise he's worthless.

lazy 26, he did that once, get over it. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Markov Komi

Hamrlik O'Byrne

Streit / Gorges Dandenault

They don't even need the cube.

We don't need Dandenault or Streit either. You could put Cote (who made the team but was injured at the end) or Valentenko in there as well.

Cube, dandenault, and Streit = $4.225M in wasted cap space.....

hmmmm isn't that what Markov wants as a UFA? Just might look good huh?

A.Markov Komi

Hamrlik O'Byrne

D Markov Valentenko/Cote

Mix em' however you want it still looks very good!

[Tony]

I don't see the big hype of Valentenko cracking a roster spot. He needs North American hockey experience and isn't close to NHL ready. He needs some playing time to adjust not only to the rink sizes but to the style of game.

That right there is more than enough to send him into the AHL for the start of the season.

[Punkned]

An image is worth a thousand words...

Bouillon vs Tucker 12/02/2006 :

Bouillon vs Tucker 03/17/2007 :

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

We don't need Dandenault or Streit either. You could put Cote (who made the team but was injured at the end) or Valentenko in there as well.

Cube, dandenault, and Streit = $4.225M in wasted cap space.....

hmmmm isn't that what Markov wants as a UFA? Just might look good huh?

A.Markov Komi

Hamrlik O'Byrne

D Markov Valentenko/Cote

Mix em' however you want it still looks very good!

You want to give two spots on D to totally unproven rookies?? That doesn't look good AT ALL.

IF any of these three rookies decisively proves superior to Dandy or Cube at the NHL level, then obviously the expensive vets should be moved. Problem is, that's a huge IF.

I also disagree that the problem with our D is guys like Dandenault and Cube and Streit. The problem is with the upper, not lower, tier of our blueliners. Markov is a terrific player; but he's not an all-star quality #1 defenceman. This wouldn't matter if we had another defenceman of comparable quality, in which case we'd have a deadly tag-team going on, but we don't. It's not clear that Komisarek is probably a 4th defenceman on a good team (I expect him to evolve into one of the best shut-down guys, he's not there yet IMHO). Souray was no better than a 4th d-man at even strength as well. Perhaps Hamrlik can step in and become the bona-fide #2 D-man this team needs. But that's unproven at this stage. The result is, we've got Markov, and then a bunch of guys who rate as somewhere between 4th-7th defencemen on good teams.

Blaming Cube and Dandy for the team's woes is like blaming a team's third and fourth line. Our situation on D is analagous to the situation at forward: lots of quality, complementary players, not enough bona fide elite or 'core' players. Nothing wrong with Cube, Streit or even Dandy: they are what they are. The problem is a team that keeps relying on 4th defencemen to be something they aren't.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

The cube is not the best 5th D man in the league. He is lucky to even have a job. Only Habs fans think he is the best thing since sliced bread. i'm obviously not as smart as everyone on this board, but i am as smart as 29 other GM's who passed on him TWICE for free. There is a reason for that. If he is the best 5 man, everyone thinks Streit is a great top 4 guy, souray was the next Bobby Orr, Markov and Komi are awesomw, why was this team in the bottom 5 in all defensive stats last year?

Answer: You guys severly over rate these guys. Then you wonder why they never make the playoffs? Totally overated.

I will give credit to Bouillon about hitting players into the boards, he does that well, otherwise he's worthless.

lazy 26, he did that once, get over it. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Markov Komi

Hamrlik O'Byrne

Streit / Gorges Dandenault

They don't even need the cube.

I would take the cube over Dandy anyday. Gorges? O'byrne? I can't even comment on those guys because they have no expierience and I don't really know anything about them except what the media says. How could you possibly know anything about them? Unless your just hanging on to what other's say. At least Boullion has earned a spot.

[Easy Ryder]

Totally agree on with Chris, 2 time every NHL team passed him throught waivers.

He would be put on waivers this year and still cleared it. So no Cube bandwagon for me.

He gets hurt more and more because he asked to much of his muscle body and at 32

he is prone to injuries.

I am still pissed that we blew our two buy outs for clearing Samsonov. Because Cube, Dandenault and Bégin would have been candidates for me because of the stock rising behind them at a cheaper rate. And because we can trade no one of thse players unless we take somebody garbages out.

IF Streit prooves he is more effective on the left side he is one of the best 5th D men in the league. But playing him on his wrong side gives him less time for an accurate pass out of the zone.

[smon]

You want to give two spots on D to totally unproven rookies?? That doesn't look good AT ALL.

IF any of these three rookies decisively proves superior to Dandy or Cube at the NHL level, then obviously the expensive vets should be moved. Problem is, that's a huge IF.

I also disagree that the problem with our D is guys like Dandenault and Cube and Streit. The problem is with the upper, not lower, tier of our blueliners. Markov is a terrific player; but he's not an all-star quality #1 defenceman. This wouldn't matter if we had another defenceman of comparable quality, in which case we'd have a deadly tag-team going on, but we don't. It's not clear that Komisarek is probably a 4th defenceman on a good team (I expect him to evolve into one of the best shut-down guys, he's not there yet IMHO). Souray was no better than a 4th d-man at even strength as well. Perhaps Hamrlik can step in and become the bona-fide #2 D-man this team needs. But that's unproven at this stage. The result is, we've got Markov, and then a bunch of guys who rate as somewhere between 4th-7th defencemen on good teams.

Blaming Cube and Dandy for the team's woes is like blaming a team's third and fourth line. Our situation on D is analagous to the situation at forward: lots of quality, complementary players, not enough bona fide elite or 'core' players. Nothing wrong with Cube, Streit or even Dandy: they are what they are. The problem is a team that keeps relying on 4th defencemen to be something they aren't.

Yeah, that's bang on. Although I won't rate Bouillon, Dandenault or Streit as 4th D, more like 5th-6th.

[Habitforming]

You want to give two spots on D to totally unproven rookies?? That doesn't look good AT ALL.

IF any of these three rookies decisively proves superior to Dandy or Cube at the NHL level, then obviously the expensive vets should be moved. Problem is, that's a huge IF.

I also disagree that the problem with our D is guys like Dandenault and Cube and Streit. The problem is with the upper, not lower, tier of our blueliners. Markov is a terrific player; but he's not an all-star quality #1 defenceman. This wouldn't matter if we had another defenceman of comparable quality, in which case we'd have a deadly tag-team going on, but we don't. It's not clear that Komisarek is probably a 4th defenceman on a good team (I expect him to evolve into one of the best shut-down guys, he's not there yet IMHO). Souray was no better than a 4th d-man at even strength as well. Perhaps Hamrlik can step in and become the bona-fide #2 D-man this team needs. But that's unproven at this stage. The result is, we've got Markov, and then a bunch of guys who rate as somewhere between 4th-7th defencemen on good teams.

Blaming Cube and Dandy for the team's woes is like blaming a team's third and fourth line. Our situation on D is analagous to the situation at forward: lots of quality, complementary players, not enough bona fide elite or 'core' players. Nothing wrong with Cube, Streit or even Dandy: they are what they are. The problem is a team that keeps relying on 4th defencemen to be something they aren't.

I never once blame Cube or Dandy for anything aside from a cap drain.

As for having 2 rookies on our D corps, yeah it is a good idea.

O'Byrne is a rookie but you'd never know it. His D is very good and the offense can be taught as he goes along. Besides he is already better then the Cube and dandy on D.

Valentenko is the wild card and flat out rookie. This out of the two is the only risk in addition to our blueline. then again, pairing him with Markov (danny, like in my wet dream post) would take alot of the gamble away and teach the young Russian by a very able defender.

No matter what, this has to be done at some point. In the next few years, starting as early as next season, all the D we have been picking in the drafts are going to be ready for a shot at the NHL. Putting O'Byrne and possibly Valentenko off for another season will only compound the problem in 08/09.

That's half the problem with forums, people run off half cocked without thinking about it. If change scares you so much...pick an individual athelete sport (tennis, golf, bowling,etc etc) to follow.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Actually, I think the problem with this board is people assuming that raw rookies are going to step in and be great. This is seldom true and especially untrue of defencemen. Look at how Komisarek was brought along...and in fact, before Gainey took over as coach, it looked like he was on the way out. Markov - our most talented defensive prospect in a decade - required a few seasons before he developed consistency in his game. And these were sure fire blue chippers. Rookies on D generally have to be brought along gingerly. So suddenly dumping two of them into our roster is dodgy.

It's true that Dandy and Cube eat up some cap space. However, that's what trades are for. If these uproven rookies decisively show they've got the goods at the NHL LEVEL - not in fantasy land - then we deal those guys for late-round picks or whatever we can get back. Those who say we'd never be able to trade them are overlooking the value of depth on defence, especially to teams that are looking at a long playoff run. Come deadline time, both of those guys will be movable.

For that matter, you can always demote them. Sure, it makes for an expensive AHL squad, but these aren't really big money contracts. It wouldn't be the end of the world.

Incidentally, I agree that Danny Markov would be a good addition.

Edited July 22, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Tony]

Another persistent problem with the Habs D is that there isn't a real guy with a nasty streak.

Markov is all-around so scratch him off for that category.

Komisarek is solid and loves to hit but it's not at a consistent basis in terms of mean streak. When I think Komisarek, I think shutdown guy, not nasty hitter.

Hamrlik has a reputation has a guy with a mean streak but his role won't be so much that with the Habs.

Streit? No mean streak.

Dandy? Same as Streit.

Bouillon? Not consistent enough to be considered a mean streak guy.

Gorges? Too early to tell but he looks more like a shutdown guy.

O'Byrne? Has the potential, we'll see at camp and at the NHL level. From what I noticed in Hamilton, he's like Komisarek so more of a shutdown guy.

Prospects who I can see filling that void are either Emelin and Valentenko (has potential for that) in the future.

Yes, I do agree with the rest of the people about Danny Markov in terms of the player he is. The main reason why people crap so much on Dandy and Bouillon is because Dandy was supposed to be a top 4 guy (or at least help out in the puck moving department) and didn't produce. I mean Streit seems more of a top 4 lock than Dandy. Bouillon had a bad season but it's all in the air for next season.

Teams need to have a Dman who loves to play physical and nasty (could have been Emelin) all the time to compete with the best. That's something the Habs have lacked for a while now and will hopefully be something that shouldn't be a problem in the future (that and more skilled puck moving dman but the prospect pool speaks for itself there).

[Habitforming]

Actually, I think the problem with this board is people assuming that raw rookies are going to step in and be great. This is seldom true and especially untrue of defencemen. Look at how Komisarek was brought along...and in fact, before Gainey took over as coach, it looked like he was on the way out. Markov - our most talented defensive prospect in a decade - required a few seasons before he developed consistency in his game. And these were sure fire blue chippers. Rookies on D generally have to be brought along gingerly. So suddenly dumping two of them into our roster is dodgy.

It's true that Dandy and Cube eat up some cap space. However, that's what trades are for. If these uproven rookies decisively show they've got the goods at the NHL LEVEL - not in fantasy land - then we deal those guys for late-round picks or whatever we can get back. Those who say we'd never be able to trade them are overlooking the value of depth on defence, especially to teams that are looking at a long playoff run. Come deadline time, both of those guys will be movable.

For that matter, you can always demote them. Sure, it makes for an expensive AHL squad, but these aren't really big money contracts. It wouldn't be the end of the world.

Incidentally, I agree that Danny Markov would be a good addition.

Ok, just for shits and giggles I'm going to respond to this because you contradict yourself all over the place.

How do you know or find out if "they've got the goods at the NHL LEVEL " if the don't play in the freaking NHL???

If you read my last post, why bother drafting players at all then? At some point they must make the NHL.

We do not have the Luxury of being able to give one defensive prospect a shot per year because we have far too many. It isn't going to get any easier; but one thing that makes it easier is giving them a shot and finally finding out where their true potential maxes out. Then you can trade them for anything because someone better might be next in line....the point is that it has to start now just to keep pace.

O'Byrne is ready now, period. Valentenko (unless a great camp from someone else) is the next closest and at this point we sit guys like Boullion or Streit or Georges in stead of someone that is either good already or someone who needs the ice time like Komisarek.

This is a process, not a fantasy league where guys just sit in the system and wait forever to get a shot.

[Punkned]

Actually, I think the problem with this board is people assuming that raw rookies are going to step in and be great. This is seldom true and especially untrue of defencemen. Look at how Komisarek was brought along...and in fact, before Gainey took over as coach, it looked like he was on the way out. Markov - our most talented defensive prospect in a decade - required a few seasons before he developed consistency in his game. And these were sure fire blue chippers. Rookies on D generally have to be brought along gingerly. So suddenly dumping two of them into our roster is dodgy.

This is so true.

Moreover, people tend to forget that both Dandy and the Cube were seriously injuried last season. Bouillon can play way better than he did last year.

I also disagree that the problem with our D is guys like Dandenault and Cube and Streit. The problem is with the upper, not lower, tier of our blueliners. Markov is a terrific player; but he's not an all-star quality #1 defenceman. This wouldn't matter if we had another defenceman of comparable quality, in which case we'd have a deadly tag-team going on, but we don't. It's not clear that Komisarek is probably a 4th defenceman on a good team (I expect him to evolve into one of the best shut-down guys, he's not there yet IMHO). Souray was no better than a 4th d-man at even strength as well. Perhaps Hamrlik can step in and become the bona-fide #2 D-man this team needs. But that's unproven at this stage. The result is, we've got Markov, and then a bunch of guys who rate as somewhere between 4th-7th defencemen on good teams.

Huh, Hamerlik was like the #1 D in Calgary, despite a strong D corp with Phaneuf, Regher...

With Markov, Hamerlik and Komi still maturing, I think we have a good top 3 (not excellent, but very very decent). The problem is the same we had for years. We have a decent at best team. Not star player.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Ok, just for shits and giggles I'm going to respond to this because you contradict yourself all over the place.

How do you know or find out if "they've got the goods at the NHL LEVEL " if the don't play in the freaking NHL???

If you read my last post, why bother drafting players at all then? At some point they must make the NHL.

We do not have the Luxury of being able to give one defensive prospect a shot per year because we have far too many. It isn't going to get any easier; but one thing that makes it easier is giving them a shot and finally finding out where their true potential maxes out. Then you can trade them for anything because someone better might be next in line....the point is that it has to start now just to keep pace.

O'Byrne is ready now, period. Valentenko (unless a great camp from someone else) is the next closest and at this point we sit guys like Boullion or Streit or Georges in stead of someone that is either good already or someone who needs the ice time like Komisarek.

This is a process, not a fantasy league where guys just sit in the system and wait forever to get a shot.

No. We sit guys like Bouillon or Dandy AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN BEATEN OUT FOR A ROSTER SPOT BY PLAYER WHO OUTPERFORMS THEM AT THE NHL LEVEL. Not before.

I didn't say, 'don't let these rookies compete with the vets and steal their jobs.' If Bouillon or Dandy have to ride the pine (or the Iron Lung) for a while, while O'Bryne or whoever tears it up, that's fine by me. But anointing them with roster spots before they've proven ANYTHING against NHLers is gibberish. Furthermore, I still think it's naive to expect two rookies to play better than these vets over an entire season - not 15 games, an entire season. So I'd wait until these rookies have shown some consistency over a duration of a few months before moving any of our vets.

I hope O'Byrne is ready now. But forgive me for withholding judgement until he's actually tested. The list of prospects that have been canonized on this board as 'NHL stars, ready, right now!!' is longer than my arm. I'll defer to the professional opinions of Gainey and his staff, thanks.

Edited July 23, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Habitforming]

No. We sit guys like Bouillon or Dandy AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN BEATEN OUT FOR A ROSTER SPOT BY PLAYER WHO OUTPERFORMS THEM AT THE NHL LEVEL. Not before.

I didn't say, 'don't let these rookies compete with the vets and steal their jobs.' If Bouillon or Dandy have to ride the pine (or the Iron Lung) for a while, while O'Bryne or whoever tears it up, that's fine by me. But anointing them with roster spots before they've proven ANYTHING against NHLers is gibberish. Furthermore, I still think it's naive to expect two rookies to play better than these vets over an entire season - not 15 games, an entire season. So I'd wait until these rookies have shown some consistency over a duration of a few months before moving any of our vets.

I hope O'Byrne is ready now. But forgive me for withholding judgement until he's actually tested. The list of prospects that have been canonized on this board as 'NHL stars, ready, right now!!' is longer than my arm. I'll defer to the professional opinions of Gainey and his staff, thanks.

Why do you keep adding things I've never said?

No one expects a rookie to outperform a vet, it just doesn't happen. But how do they get the experience to become those players without sitting out two guys who are a 6-7th D on an expansion team in the first place?

By your theory Komisarek would still be on the farm because he "couldn't out perform a vet for an entire season"

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Why do you keep adding things I've never said?

No one expects a rookie to outperform a vet, it just doesn't happen. But how do they get the experience to become those players without sitting out two guys who are a 6-7th D on an expansion team in the first place?

By your theory Komisarek would still be on the farm because he "couldn't out perform a vet for an entire season"

Uh...put it this way. If a rookie comes along and has a great camp - not a nice AHL season, not nice notices on Internet boards - and is clearly NHL ready up against NHL competition (even if it's only preseason), then you keep him and dress him. Guys like Dandy and Cube start competing for the final spot.

If after, oh, I dunno, 30 or 40 games, that youngster still hasn't played himself off the team, and is still clearly a fine young player with a great upside who can play now without embarassing himself, then you move a vet.

And on the unlikely scenario that TWO rookie D-men have great camps, great preseasons, and roll right along into the regular season, then sure, move a vet earlier. But only after you've got the evidence of NHL readiness well in hand.

Not exactly rocket science, is it?

Edited July 23, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber