Minimizing the Winter Swoon

[platypus]

Hi, I'm new to posting on these boards and would like to begin by saying I enjoy the intensity of the discussions herein.

I'd like to comment on last season's winter collapse and in particular the physical sicknesses that seem to greatly contribute to the team's detriment.

I'm talking about the flu/cold that spreads through the team like a wildfire. Considering how many reports there are about players showing up to a game severely ill, one can be little surprised that they lose more than they win for the duration of coldest months.

Why do the flu/cold seem to affect the Canadiens more than other clubs? There are probably many contributing factors but among them are that this city is particularly cold in comparison to most other cities with NHL clubs. Add that to haphazard sanitation, cold/hot environment, the contained environment of a dressing room, sweat, humidity and sharing of water bottles, and we have ourselves a breeding ground for viral contagiousness and bacteria.

Beyond the talent of the players themselves, their motivation, beyond the coach's ability to guide the team, for it to remain consistent throughout the year, it must contain the yearly flu/cold epidemic. How? Don't let players who are obviously sick come to play even if they want to. Ventilate the dressing room properly with appropriate air filters. Bring in a qualified team to clean the dressing room with anti-bacterial and anti-viral agents. Don't let players share water bottles. Keep sick reporters away as well as any other personnel who may be contagious. Consider the history of illness of each player and give flu shots to those who are deemed suseptible to the flu. Etc.Etc.

Perhaps this would all be considered going overboard to some of you. But to those of you who have played with a cold or the flu, you know how much it can affect your play. If you were an NHLer, wouldn't you want the team to try to keep you healthy in that respect? It's frustrating to hear that half the team is sick with a cold or the flu. Managing a team in the 21st century has to go beyond the expected and into the realm of the unexpected.

-John

[Tony]

Welcome to the boards John.

I remember watching some old Don Cherry tapes years ago (easily 10 years ago) about this. He mainly gave Mike Keenan (I think it was him) as an example saying that at the time he was coaching, every player had their own designated water bottle and that was the one they always had to use to avoid contamination and such. Cherry also said something like coaches were getting more and more worried about this problem and some were beginning to take these precautions. Teams can take the best precautions for their players not to get sick but in the end, once their home, it's fair game (i.e.: they can get sick from the wife, kids, girlfriends, brother, friends and so on).

Maybe what happened to the Habs could be considered a fluke last season. While flu shots are supposed to prevent you from getting the flu, it's never a surefire thing. It's usually hard to tell where you get sick from since when the bacteria takes about 2 days to have an effect on your body. There's even scenarios where a player can hang out with people who aren't sick and still get sick from one of those people because that person was carrying the bacteria and was immune to it. So it can literally come from anywhere, the best thing to do is try to minimize the impact of the flu once the players are sick to ensure a speedy and proper (i.e.: liquids, vitamins and rest) recovery.

[Habitforming]

Hi, I'm new to posting on these boards and would like to begin by saying I enjoy the intensity of the discussions herein.

I'd like to comment on last season's winter collapse and in particular the physical sicknesses that seem to greatly contribute to the team's detriment.

I'm talking about the flu/cold that spreads through the team like a wildfire. Considering how many reports there are about players showing up to a game severely ill, one can be little surprised that they lose more than they win for the duration of coldest months.

Why do the flu/cold seem to affect the Canadiens more than other clubs? There are probably many contributing factors but among them are that this city is particularly cold in comparison to most other cities with NHL clubs. Add that to haphazard sanitation, cold/hot environment, the contained environment of a dressing room, sweat, humidity and sharing of water bottles, and we have ourselves a breeding ground for viral contagiousness and bacteria.

Beyond the talent of the players themselves, their motivation, beyond the coach's ability to guide the team, for it to remain consistent throughout the year, it must contain the yearly flu/cold epidemic. How? Don't let players who are obviously sick come to play even if they want to. Ventilate the dressing room properly with appropriate air filters. Bring in a qualified team to clean the dressing room with anti-bacterial and anti-viral agents. Don't let players share water bottles. Keep sick reporters away as well as any other personnel who may be contagious. Consider the history of illness of each player and give flu shots to those who are deemed suseptible to the flu. Etc.Etc.

Perhaps this would all be considered going overboard to some of you. But to those of you who have played with a cold or the flu, you know how much it can affect your play. If you were an NHLer, wouldn't you want the team to try to keep you healthy in that respect? It's frustrating to hear that half the team is sick with a cold or the flu. Managing a team in the 21st century has to go beyond the expected and into the realm of the unexpected.

-John

Welcome to the boards John!

I understand what you are trying to say about the virus prevention end of it, but realistically it is more complicated then that.

While the flu shot can help people stay healthier, they normally only cover about 12-15 strains that professionals deem as the most common for the given season. The problem with that is there could be thousands of strains and more are created every season, making it impossible to stop more then 10% of flu strains ....maximum.

the flu constantly evolves because of the protiens in the antibody that help keep some healthy, actually change the makeup of the virus itself upon its reproduction. Thus creating another strain. It is quite an enigma really.

Anyway, enough of that babble.

I agree about the air filters and the hazmat team charged with ridding the dressing rooms etc of virus' and bacteria's. But even then there is no gaurantee.

Enjoy the boards!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Great thread.

I think that the Habs' mid-season swoons - didn't they suffer one in 2005-06 as well? - are only partly explained by bad luck or bad ventilation or what have you. I think the problem may partly be the team itself.

-Koivu is simply too small and vulnerable and damaged to play 82 games at a high level. His body, I suspect, just gives out on him. Then he goes into one of his prolonged funks, and with their key offensive pivot slumping, the team is liable to go south too.

-This is quite a young team. Young players are notorious for not yet being able to deliver consistently over a whole season.

-This team has more talent than its critics think, which is why it's had insanely hot starts and (to a lesser extent) finishes over the last two seasons. But it really isn't that great. So it doesn't take much to throw it off the rails and disintegrate into total mediocrity. In other words, when most things are going well (no bad injuries, no flu, no distractions) this team is quite good. But it lacks the talent to be resilient when obstacles do arise. Truly good teams overcome these things, play through them.

Just some guesses.

Edited August 1, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[JoeLassister]

Welcome in dude !

I personnaly never had flu shot and practiclay never had flu in the last 5 years. I think once you receive this kind of shot, your body tend to unprotect you against the flu. It's like using an air-conditioner at home : once you have it 1 summer, you can't live without it after...

[simonus]

-Koivu is simply too small and vulnerable and damaged to play 82 games at a high level. His body, I suspect, just gives out on him. Then he goes into one of his prolonged funks, and with their key offensive pivot slumping, the team is liable to go south too.

Perhaps you are right, but there are other small guys who can manage.

-This is quite a young team. Young players are notorious for not yet being able to deliver consistently over a whole season.

this effect should diminish as the team gains experience.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Perhaps you are right, but there are other small guys who can manage.

this effect should diminish as the team gains experience.

On Koivu: maybe, but he is what he is. Perhaps if he hadn't been so brutally and repeatedly injured early in his career he'd be better now. (Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but he's only a #1 centreman for about 70% of the season).

As for the team effect diminishing with experience, I agree, and that is one reason why I'm cautiously optimistic that this team will surpass expectations this season.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

This team suffered the same meltdown two seasons in a row. Perhaps it was the flu or perhaps there was something else wrong....

[Wamsley01]

Great thread.

I think that the Habs' mid-season swoons - didn't they suffer one in 2005-06 as well? - are only partly explained by bad luck or bad ventilation or what have you. I think the problem may partly be the team itself.

-Koivu is simply too small and vulnerable and damaged to play 82 games at a high level. His body, I suspect, just gives out on him. Then he goes into one of his prolonged funks, and with their key offensive pivot slumping, the team is liable to go south too.

-This is quite a young team. Young players are notorious for not yet being able to deliver consistently over a whole season.

-This team has more talent than its critics think, which is why it's had insanely hot starts and (to a lesser extent) finishes over the last two seasons. But it really isn't that great. So it doesn't take much to throw it off the rails and disintegrate into total mediocrity. In other words, when most things are going well (no bad injuries, no flu, no distractions) this team is quite good. But it lacks the talent to be resilient when obstacles do arise. Truly good teams overcome these things, play through them.

Just some guesses.

Welcome to the board John,

I think they are all good points Cucumber. My bet is that the more the kids improve, the more consistent they will become. THey have not responded well to adversity over the last couple of years (ie. injuries, flu) but the more this team adapts to the system the more replaceable some parts become.

[Colin]

Personally, I'd probably discount the season's before last because the situations were somewhat different - which I'll explain.

First and foremost, new coach (and I do believe that Carbo did institute a water-bottle-per-person rule). While in previous years there were other, varying reasons for the collapse, I think this year's is far more understandable. Quite simply, by Christmas most of the other clubs had figured out the Canadiens and Carbo had his first coaching crisis. If you remember, until that point the lines had been very stable - he'd hardly messed with them at all. In fact, he kept up with them for the first couple of weeks of the slump before grudgingly changing things. That was his first real rookie coaching mistake - too much patience.

Unfortunately, after that he made his second really big rookie mistake - not enough patience. Once he started switching the lines around, I think we can all remember how no one knew where they'd play from one shift to the next let alone one game to the next. The flu in and around that time certainly didn't help; attention spans were probably shorter, recovery times longer, and no one feels positive mentally when they're sick.

By that point the team was, well, in disarray. Carbo had lost his focus and so had the team. He decided to do something really drastic and that was to bench one of the most respected guys on the team - Rivet. And while he did it with the intention of waking up the team, it probably backfired slightly in that he created his first real off-ice tension - which ultimately led to Rivet's trade.

It wasn't too long after that, though, that Carbo put together the kids and started sticking with some line combos again. Furthermore, he seemed to adapt his on-ice strategies, in particular for the lines with good speed - you may have noted the increased forecheck from the kids line and from the fourth line. Once he started figuring these small points out and started really using them to his advantage (i.e. really good line matching) I feel the team gelled and was off and running again, albeit a little too late.

With regards to Koivu, it's a really interesting situation. Personally, I think he could always hack the 80-game schedules, despite the injuries. If you look back closely, most of them were flukes, and while some might say "injury prone" and others might say "his style of play caused them," I really do think he had a few years of not-so-great luck. Then the cancer thing came along and there's a lot people still don't realize - or have forgotten - about the full implications therein.

It is entirely possible, and it was discussed a few times when he first got back by Dr. Mulder, I believe, that Koivu may never again regain his full pre-cancer fitness. That's just one of the things that can happen as a result of the disease. Now, having said that and offering it as a possible explanation for his mid-season lag, I personally am not convince. This season, assuming he's injury free, I think we'll get the real answer.

My personal guess is that, shortly after he returned from the flu, he lost focus and perhaps even a little interest in the game. Why? Well, first that flu came at the time when he was supposed to be declared cancer free so it may have panicked him somewhat. But more importantly, that was the five-year mark of his return from cancer. Little was said on air and in the media, but I'll bet every last cent that I have and that everyone on this site has that Koivu made a HUGE deal out of it. The five year mark means he's considered by doctors to be cancer free and no longer termed 'in remission.' (There are medical quibbles about the terminology, but the five-year mark is the litmus test - go that long and it's very likely you won't see the cancer again.)

I think Koivu was celebrating life with his wife, his daughter, and the rest of his family. I'm sure he was on the phone, perhaps relaxing a little more, maybe even slacking off on the training while he took just a little more time to smell those roses, so to speak. I have absolutely no factual evidence of this, of course, except that I've known cancer patients who have reached that five-year mark. We also know that Koivu is a classy, upstanding guy who is family oriented - you can get that from his interviews and the way he comports himself off the ice.

I'm very eager to see how he makes it through this season as I think it could very well be his best in the NHL by a long shot. He may tire somewhat, but I don't think it'll be any more than any other player out there.

Anyhow, conjecture, of course, but it'll be interesting to see how things play out this season. I do believe Carbo learned a tonne his first season and he's going to come back a much better coach because of it.

- A Concerned Fan

[Wamsley01]

People tend to be gentle in their criticisms with Latendresse/Lapierre/Halak but do not afford the same slack to Carbo. He was also a rookie.

I have coached before, and it looks easy on the outside. But Carbo has to deal with every individual's concerns on the team, he has to make sure that they are prepared, he has to make sure that his assistants are prepared, he has to communicate well with his GM, he has to gauge the tone of the room, he has to identify his leaders, he has to know who he can yell at and who he cannot. All of this occurs before the puck even hits the ice. A player just has to hit the ice and play. Carbo made mistakes because he NEVER coached in junior, the minors etc. He was learning on the fly.

Having everybody follow the same rules does not work with today's athletes. The mid season sliumps will dissappear once he succeed's in selling the system to the WHOLE team. (That includes you KOVY). They are on the right track. The base of the team has come through Hamilton now, and the players they have added have excelled in defense oriented systems before.

This team could surprise. Marquee names do not always win you hockey games. Look back at some of the teams who have gone on long playoff runs in the last 5 years. Carolina in 02, Anaheim in 03, Calgary in 04, Edmonton in 06. A team is the sum of all it's parts. Once they start pulling in different directions it does not matter who makes up your roster, you are done.

The future of this team is bright. It might not happen this season, but it is going to happen.

[Habitforming]

People tend to be gentle in their criticisms with Latendresse/Lapierre/Halak but do not afford the same slack to Carbo. He was also a rookie.

I agree to some extent.

Lats, Halak etc etc are rookies, but Carbo has been playing the game for 30+ years and has played in the NHL for many many seasons as one of the best technical players in the game.

The rookie players can't boast the same experience and therfore garnish some slack for it. There isn't and shouldn't be as much slack for Carbo because of his experience alone. Let's not forget Gainey is also capable of being his mentor, and he is no slouch or rookie coach.

[Chris]

Well Carbo is coaching one of the laziest teams in the NHL. So you should cut him some slack.

In case fans haven't noticed the new signings are all hard working character guys. Beleive me, Carbo has his work cut out for him working with a core that has NEVER had to work hard, always has excuses for bad play.

Hard work is what Carbo is installing. Until that changes, they will continue to be fighting for an 8 spot.

[saskhab]

Well Carbo is coaching one of the laziest teams in the NHL. So you should cut him some slack.

In case fans haven't noticed the new signings are all hard working character guys. Beleive me, Carbo has his work cut out for him working with a core that has NEVER had to work hard, always has excuses for bad play.

Hard work is what Carbo is installing. Until that changes, they will continue to be fighting for an 8 spot.

I don't think anyone was calling this team lazy at the end of 2005-06.

[Chris]

I was, they were a 1 trick pony.

Theodore

[Tony]

If the Habs work hard, they can be a very dangerous team in the NHL. I always believed the way to go for Montreal isn't through finesse but through a gritty-in-your-face style of hockey.

I do agree with the general feeling that Gainey hired hard-working players. If that doesn't seem to get attention via UFA then look no further in terms of the draft. I'm quite happy with the direction the team has been taking. Hopefully, it will pay dividends soon.