RobRock Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 That's bullshit, the Catholic Church absolutely does not teach anything like that. If they did, why would they bother education non-Catholics? Why would they bother teaching about other religions? Why would they teach respect for other religions? Be an agnostic all you want, but don't go making claims against other religions that are categorically wrong. I guess you missed this, Vatican text angers Protestants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) As someone who isnt a member of that new-fangled religion called christianity, I have often been surprised to hear many of my protestant friends say things like "christians and catholics" and insist that catholics are somehow not quite christian (perhaps revulsion at the idea that you could have an intermediary between the laic and the divine?). I don't know if that is a midwest thing, and I certainly don't think these people are theological geniuses, but it is apparently a pretty popular opinion amongst midwestern protestestants. Edited August 25, 2007 by simonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 Last time I checked Jesus never 'started' a church. The Roman Catholic church was started by pagans in Rome when the Roman leaders said 'hey we should adopt this'. So they just stole the religion but got to worship their idiols like they always did but instead of praying to Zeus they prayed to a Mary idol, and had saints. pretty paganist to me. No one Christian denomination orthodox, catholic, lutheran is 'true' its all diluted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) Last time I checked Jesus never 'started' a church. The Roman Catholic church was started by pagans in Rome when the Roman leaders said 'hey we should adopt this'. So they just stole the religion but got to worship their idiols like they always did but instead of praying to Zeus they prayed to a Mary idol, and had saints. pretty paganist to me. No one Christian denomination orthodox, catholic, lutheran is 'true' its all diluted. dude, you gotta lay off! This was never a discussion about which is the true religion, you are just trolling. Also, nobody ever said Jesus started a new church. The story goes that it was Peter who started the Roman church. Edited August 25, 2007 by simonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 I guess you missed this, Vatican text angers Protestants I don't see anything in there that non-Catholics can't get into heaven. Not being a true church is a lot different from condemning all other denominations and religions to hell. I mean, come on, of course the Catholic Church thinks they are the only true religion. They believe their beliefs are the correct beliefs, so of course they think others are wrong. There's nothing to be offended about. Lutherans think they are the true religion, Methodists think they are, Jews think they are, Muslims think they are. But thinking you are right and others are wrong doesn't mean you don't still respect them. dude, you gotta lay off! This was never a discussion about which is the true religion, you are just trolling. Also, nobody ever said Jesus started a new church. The story goes that it was Peter who started the Roman church. Last time I checked Jesus never 'started' a church. Yeah, I guess Jesus had nothing to do with the starting of Christianity. I guess his life and teaching aren't the basis of faith for millions upon millions of people. I guess we could have Christianity without Christ. P.S. NOW this thread is getting dicey. P.P.S. Now that PTG bet that he couldn't talk about politics, I guess he chose religion to get his fix of pissing people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 I don't see anything in there that non-Catholics can't get into heaven. Not being a true church is a lot different from condemning all other denominations and religions to hell. I mean, come on, of course the Catholic Church thinks they are the only true religion. They believe their beliefs are the correct beliefs, so of course they think others are wrong. There's nothing to be offended about. Lutherans think they are the true religion, Methodists think they are, Jews think they are, Muslims think they are. But thinking you are right and others are wrong doesn't mean you don't still respect them. Yeah, I guess Jesus had nothing to do with the starting of Christianity. I guess his life and teaching aren't the basis of faith for millions upon millions of people. I guess we could have Christianity without Christ. P.S. NOW this thread is getting dicey. P.P.S. Now that PTG bet that he couldn't talk about politics, I guess he chose religion to get his fix of pissing people off. lol you're missing the point. There are no text that says Jesus Christ founder of the Roman Catholic Church. He never laid any ground work for 'Christianity' he just wanted us to be reformed jews to be honest and still go to the temple on fridays. For example where did Jesus say I'm not a Jew anymore? Nowhere. He died a jewish person. He wanted to reform Judaism not completely replace it and call it a different name and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 lol you're missing the point. There are no text that says Jesus Christ founder of the Roman Catholic Church. He never laid any ground work for 'Christianity' he just wanted us to be reformed jews to be honest and still go to the temple on fridays. For example where did Jesus say I'm not a Jew anymore? Nowhere. He died a jewish person. He wanted to reform Judaism not completely replace it and call it a different name and so on. Christianity was born out of Judaism. They couldn't call themselves Jewish anymore because that name was kept by those Jews who didn't recognize Him as the Messiah. His teachings went against tons and tons of Jewish laws and teachings. It would be like Martin Luther's followers still calling themselves Catholics. Just as Lutheranism was born out of Catholicism, Christianity was born out of Judaism. Had all Jews accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then Christians probably would be called Jews today and the current form of Judaism would not exist. The Jewish religion would have become what today we call Catholicism or other Christian denominations. And as simonus pointed out, it was Peter and the other apostles who developed their branch into what became Christianity. Jesus did not directly begin a new Church, but there would not have been a need for one if not for Him. Jesus' teachings absolutely laid down the framework for a new Church, since he disregarded so many Jewish teachings and traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) In the old testament "God" says to question and to be skeptical meaning that he/she encourages agnosticism. I'll find the text and post in a bit. Edited August 25, 2007 by Athlétique.Canadien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 yes and yes BUT The roman catholic church isn't Peter's church. Its Constantine's church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 yes and yes BUT The roman catholic church isn't Peter's church. Its Constantine's church. Dude, Constantine simply made Christianity a legal religion. Romans persecuted Christians for three hundred years before Constantine. Constantine is certainly an important figure in Christianity, but it was the teachings of people like Peter and Paul about Jesus that began Christianity. I mean, Peter was the first bishop, a non-Jewish position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 you're missing my point. Where in those 300 years do they worship to statues of Mary for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Oh dear. Poor Pierre. Weren't you paying attention when someone said, "Never discuss religion or politics"? Pierre scores a zero out of two on this unwritten social advice Don't worry Pierre, we still love ya It is true about Jesus never wanting organized institutions formed after him. As a matter of fact. In public life, Jesus' lack of patience for the Romans wasn't too bad. It wasn't the Romans or the Jews he had concerns with as much as he was irritated by the Pharisees. He didn't like their external observation and how it would lead to immortal sin becasue it was a catch 22. In daily life the Pharisees had many external obsevations (which were impossible to complete) in their religion. Having failed, they did just that - they failed. Thus you have eternal sin. Matthew 5 20 - For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Clearly Jesus had issues with the false Pharisees Matthew 6 1 - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Jesus also seemed to discourage public signs of faith and was very disinterested in "symbolism". But, that's the problem with any philosophy, religion or teaching. Within itself it can be perfect. With one person it can be perfect. Add more people and it gets ruined. Sound like religion? It really is too bad that our religious institutions are suffering. All "progressive" people (some of them) can see is the positive but nature abores a vacumm. I learned in sunday school not to kill. With religion dying it also will lead to the good going out with the bad. And, Mickey Mouse or GI Joe cartoons saying what is moral is not going to stop kids in the future. Sad really. Who is going to say it isn't right to kill. What happens when the "fear of God" is lost? Society had better figure this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 you're missing my point. Where in those 300 years do they worship to statues of Mary for example? What on Earth are you talking about? Who worships statues of Mary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 Roman Catholics. All these saints, and patron saints. That's not Christianity that's Roman idol worship from Roman paganism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Roman Catholics. All these saints, and patron saints. That's not Christianity that's Roman idol worship from Roman paganism. Catholics do not worship saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 the pharisees were jews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) the pharisees were jews I meant Jewish community versus actual Priests. Yes, they did represent a Jewish dogma and were Jewish too. Edited August 25, 2007 by Athlétique.Canadien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 Catholics do not worship saints. Then what is the statue to Mary in your churches and when I got a laptop from the Catholic school, (same one I'm typing on write now) I had a card that said for me to pray to the patron saint of the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Then what is the statue to Mary in your churches and when I got a laptop from the Catholic school, (same one I'm typing on write[sic] now) I had a card that said for me to pray to the patron saint of the internet? http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/C...ary_worship.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted August 26, 2007 Author Share Posted August 26, 2007 lol, okay so then my 85 year old catholic neighbour who prays to a Mary statue every morning is really praying to God? Please. She's praying to Mary, even my friend's dad who is a deacon said 'they' pray to the Saints who then pray to God. Its all apart of Catholicism where you can't directly pray to God you have to pray to the Pope because he's "the messenger to God". Really, when are you going to stop this madness. The church isn't democratic its a dictatorship of old crusty men who keep refuge of sex offenders within the Vatican walls. Where's Cardinal Law again? Oh that's right. Anyway if a deacon and a priest tell me (confession was mandatory at the catholic school) what the idols are for then I believe that trumps propaganda from a catholic website. Talk to me when the Catholic church goers have a voice and power is taken away from criminals and women have an equal voice and have rights. End this madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 I'm praying to the hockey gods for the season to start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 lol, okay so then my 85 year old catholic neighbour who prays to a Mary statue every morning is really praying to God? Please. She's praying to Mary, even my friend's dad who is a deacon said 'they' pray to the Saints who then pray to God. Its all apart of Catholicism where you can't directly pray to God you have to pray to the Pope because he's "the messenger to God". Anyway if a deacon and a priest tell me (confession was mandatory at the catholic school) what the idols are for then I believe that trumps propaganda from a catholic website. I see nothing in your statement that would be considered worshiping saints. Millions of Catholics pray directly God. I don't know anyone who prays to the pope. Heck, what you described is exactly what that website describes, which isn't propaganda. It's describing the official teaching of the Church. The official teaching of the Church trumps your deacon and priest. Pierre, you spent some time at a Catholic school. I went to Catholic grade school, Catholic high school, and a Catholic college. (I didn't even know it was one until I moved in, haha.) I've taken countless religion classes. I know Catholic teachings better than you do. You're not going to win anything by trying to spread your half truths here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 there is absolutely no reason for this thread to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts