Game Thread | Hurricanes vs. Canadiens | 10/13/07

[BTH]

I agree regarding Kosto, but Dandenault has been pretty good on the 4th. He's hitting, he's skating, he's getting shots. He's clearly not an elite forward, but he's getting the job done, especially for a 4th liner. Have we been watching the same player? (Granted, for 1.7$million, he's overpriced for a 4th liner, but if you ignore the cost and look at him as a player, he's ok.)

Yeah, last night, Dandenault was one of our best players in the limited icetime he received. But like you said, he isn't worth the money and we'd be better off with Grabovski or Lapierre in the lineup.

[Habsy]

First paragraph: you didn't watch the game, so you can hardly comment. The highlights only show the greatest opportunities of the game, so they're not likely to tell you that the shots were 30-8 after 2 periods. No one is panicking or calling for anyone's head or any trades - but it was a terrible performance and there is no denying that, especially if you didn't even watch.

"I know it is an open form and all, but how many of you actually thought we would start this season 2-1-1?" Hundreds of people - that was probably the most likely outcome possible.

Second paragraph: Once again, no one is calling for anyone's head and this is a thread about this game. Maybe people are happy about the first 4 games in general but are unhappy with this game - which is why they are posting negative comments in the game thread and not the nonexistant season thread.

Third paragraph: Of course, you've seen nothing to bash him for if you haven't been watching the games - you definitely wouldn't have seen him in the highlights. He's been our worst player so far in the first four games and his speed doesn't have much to do with it considering he played well last year while he was just as slow but even heavier. The fact is that he is playing like crap and people have the right to be frustrated with him - I haven't heard anyone say Gainey should trade him or that he should be sent down - just that he is playing like crap, which is true, as you would know, if you watched the games.

Why keep bringing up "arm chair coaches"? Everyone on this board is an arm chair coach, so if you're not going to pay any attention to what anyone says solely because they aren't professionals, why visit these boards?

There is always someone who tries to look intelligent by calling every negative comment a knee-jerk reaction and hoping their comments will be called "a breath of fresh air". Maybe, just maybe, things are not 100% terrific and there are both positive and negative things to discuss like the production of our 20 year old third line winger. The funny thing is that I'm probably one of the most positive posters on this site and am convinced we're winning the Cup next season yet I have to remind you this.

I was considering a response, no need now, well put BTH.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

The Canadiens shat the bed. Big deal. They only lost by one goal. EN's don't count IMO. It's a 1 goal loss.

The players don't need the coaches to peel the paint or go to the well. The players are fully aware of this debacle and will exact some good play next time out.

It's true that .630 isn't as nice as .833 was before returning home. But regardless of the bad elements of this game, there were some good signs of things to come. Here we are arguing over 1 game and all the while, no one is talking about the pluses. Eg: Chipchura was AWESOME!

We will get these points back. The room 'ought to be miffed!

:hlogo:

[OneSharpMarble]

Looking over the game stats i'll take a wild stab in the dark say we came out absolutly flat first two periods then gave a half assed effort last period to make it look like we are earning our paycheque. Hung Huet out to dry and overall looked mediocre to below average. Lost the game but hey we won the last one so 50-50 right?

Welcome to last season, this "team" and I use the term loosely needs a shakeup badly. No more sitting on leads, no more half assing it, no more gutless heartless hockey for the so called "most storied" franchise in hockey. I don't care if it's only 4 games in, and I really don't care if you tell me we are above .500, if this is the sort of trash play that you find acceptable fine, I don't.

Gainey, turn an eye towards a certain team that is in the pits right now, they might be looking for a change aswell. LA and Atlanta are two teams loaded with talent but nothings clicking.

[bar]

So watching the game sat night I noticed a few things, I'm sure you can agree/disagree with me, and please do

1) Passing. The habs were brutal in giving and receiving passes. So many were just out of reach, or even more frustrating was when players on the power play tried to receive their passes with their skates, have the puck bounce weird and have the PKers send the puck down the ice.

2) Hitting. Where is it? I know there was some 'hits' that'd register as body checks, but isn't Cube, Begin, Lats supposed to punish people in the corners? Are they afraid of getting penalties after the reffing debacle?

3) Koivu-Ryder-Higgins - they looked really good so far.

4) Defense - We looked really small against the canes, they were holding the puck against our D in the corners way too easily.

5) We were awful on the dump and chase, 4/5 times we wouldn't recover the puck, and the canes would be on the counter attack.

6) Kovy still has the magic.

Just some thoughts from the game.

[Chris]

Why is everyone all over Kostopolous. He is doing exactly what he is getting paid to do. He plays hard every shift, hits, tried to drop the gloves last game, very good in his own end. What do you want from him? He is one of the cheapest forwards the ahabs have and he gives the best effort.

There are alot more people deserving heat for lack of effort and play then Kostopolous. I guess some things never change it's always easier to pick on the third line guy instead of the high priced players who didn't show up.

[Habsfan24]

To be honest I have been happy with the FA signings more so then I thought I would be.

They have been doing pretty much what I had expected if not more in some cases (Breezby) These guys were not expected to come in and score a bunch of goals or anything. They were fairly cheap 3rd and 4th line players expected to check and work hard.

The one and only thing I have not been happy with was on Saturday night when Smoke took a really dumb penalty.

Also if people are not happy with these signings just rememeber how brutal Bonk was for the first few months he was in Montreal before he turned out to be a really solid player. It takes these players time to adjust to Carbo's style. (which maybe the real point for discussion)

[Chris]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, People can talk about systems all they want but the bottom line is the Habs have NOT been a hard working team for years, until that changes, they will continue to be mediocre.

[Easy Ryder]

Kosto=Murray<Bégin=Lapierre.

Nothing against Kosto, just too many grinders who couldn't score.

A grinder that goes for 10 goals is OK a grinder that goes for 5 goals suck.

Lapierre has a better knack for the net than the three i named before.

We need leadership and Bégin provides it.

Anyway it's all Dandenault presence on the 4th line that screw up this whole pressure on grinders.

This pushes up Kosto on third. I would sit Kosto and insert Grabovski on third. This until we find a place for

1.9 milion Dandenault.

I would try one thing to fire up the third line.

Grabovski(wing)-Smolinski-Latendresse.

On this line it takes a puck carrier and Grabovski with his speed would carry the puck near the crease and

Latendresse can then make a move for the net. Latendresse carrying the puck is even worst to see then Ryder

carrying the puck in the past years. Althought he looks better at it this year.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Why is everyone all over Kostopolous. He is doing exactly what he is getting paid to do. He plays hard every shift, hits, tried to drop the gloves last game, very good in his own end. What do you want from him? He is one of the cheapest forwards the ahabs have and he gives the best effort.

There are alot more people deserving heat for lack of effort and play then Kostopolous. I guess some things never change it's always easier to pick on the third line guy instead of the high priced players who didn't show up.

For the most part the comments on Kostopolous have nothing to do with his performance. It is about the way he is used and the ice time given to him (in this game).

Something that has been bothering me a little since the start of the season is our lack of hitting. I have not looked up any stats but it sure looks like the Habs are being out hit in a big way.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, People can talk about systems all they want but the bottom line is the Habs have NOT been a hard working team for years, until that changes, they will continue to be mediocre.

If that is the case then there is something seriously wrong in Montreal. Do players just get lazy when they come here? We have had some hardworking players come and go as UFAs.

We have players that play VERY hard every night. Koivu and Higgins bring it every shift for an example.

I really don't get this argument that our team just doens't work hard and that is why we are a mediocre team. Who on the Habs is not working hard?

Every coach we have had in the last while has been a defensive coach. We play a type of trap game. Our players are mostly small and fast with good stick skills. Let them open up.

[ShortHanded]

Kosto=Murray<Bégin=Lapierre.

Nothing against Kosto, just too many grinders who couldn't score.

A grinder that goes for 10 goals is OK a grinder that goes for 5 goals suck.

Lapierre has a better knack for the net than the three i named before.

We need leadership and Bégin provides it.

Anyway it's all Dandenault presence on the 4th line that screw up this whole pressure on grinders.

This pushes up Kosto on third. I would sit Kosto and insert Grabovski on third. This until we find a place for

1.9 milion Dandenault.

I would try one thing to fire up the third line.

Grabovski(wing)-Smolinski-Latendresse.

On this line it takes a puck carrier and Grabovski with his speed would carry the puck near the crease and

Latendresse can then make a move for the net. Latendresse carrying the puck is even worst to see then Ryder

carrying the puck in the past years. Althought he looks better at it this year.

I definitely agree that Kosto should be on the 4th not the third. Whether Grabs on the third is a good idea, I'm not sure though... just because the third is supposed to be the "shut down" line against the other team's top forwards. Does Grabs have that ability? In terms of him adding offense, having him on the third would be good, but that line needs to be able to do both Offense and D, with the focus on D. Also, you have to ask yourself if Lats couldn't keep up with Plex's speed, how will he keep up with Grabs? Are Grabs and Lats even compatible? I don't know, all of these are just questions.

A random idea would be to try Dandy on the third until we can find him anohter home??? No idea if this is good or not, as I've watched maybe 40 minutes of Habs hockey all season, and all while doing other stuff and not really focussing on the game, so... any thoughts on this?

[Chris]

The first 3 games I thought it was a good team effort. Saturday wasn't, you can't get outshot by 22 and consider your team working hard after 2 periods. I consider "working hard" more then skating from point a to b. It's also winning 1 on 1 battles, not losing physical battles, skating and playing hard every shift.

I think Pleks, Higgins and Kostopolous and Hamrlik have brought it every game.

[johnnyhasbeen]

First paragraph: you didn't watch the game, so you can hardly comment. The highlights only show the greatest opportunities of the game, so they're not likely to tell you that the shots were 30-8 after 2 periods. No one is panicking or calling for anyone's head or any trades - but it was a terrible performance and there is no denying that, especially if you didn't even watch.

"I know it is an open form and all, but how many of you actually thought we would start this season 2-1-1?" Hundreds of people - that was probably the most likely outcome possible.

Second paragraph: Once again, no one is calling for anyone's head and this is a thread about this game. Maybe people are happy about the first 4 games in general but are unhappy with this game - which is why they are posting negative comments in the game thread and not the nonexistent season thread.

Third paragraph: Of course, you've seen nothing to bash him for if you haven't been watching the games - you definitely wouldn't have seen him in the highlights. He's been our worst player so far in the first four games and his speed doesn't have much to do with it considering he played well last year while he was just as slow but even heavier. The fact is that he is playing like crap and people have the right to be frustrated with him - I haven't heard anyone say Gainey should trade him or that he should be sent down - just that he is playing like crap, which is true, as you would know, if you watched the games.

Why keep bringing up "arm chair coaches"? Everyone on this board is an arm chair coach, so if you're not going to pay any attention to what anyone says solely because they aren't professionals, why visit these boards?

There is always someone who tries to look intelligent by calling every negative comment a knee-jerk reaction and hoping their comments will be called "a breath of fresh air". Maybe, just maybe, things are not 100% terrific and there are both positive and negative things to discuss like the production of our 20 year old third line winger. The funny thing is that I'm probably one of the most positive posters on this site and am convinced we're winning the Cup next season yet I have to remind you this.

I am sorry if you were offended by my post, it wasn't meant to offend.

I am just really getting sick of reading all the negative posts on here, although as Cataclaw sort of said , we are Emos.(I thought that was my teenage daughter and friends) I have been known for some real humdingers myself in times of sorrow. :puke:

I think Carbos moving Lats up in lines was quite smart. Ask yourself, does he belong here. If you feel he doesn't, that is your opinion, enough said. If you feel he does belong, but needs to regain his form, then how better than to give him some key chances with the big lines.

I am very happy with the direction of this team and staff and, as you, believe in a cup next year, maybe a run of 2. Latendresse could play a key role in that cup if he gets in stride. The question remains, will he find it? I for one hope he does.

You are right, I didn't see the game, but it was the 1st I missed all year. There is no excuse for the shots we allowed early, and God knows how we cut down on the penalties. Sounds like it was a case of the norm in officiating?

Arm chair coach is a term I proudly refer to myself as and sometimes arm chair gm. I used it self inclusive. I figure we all are, but coaches need not be short sighted. Still wondering who is going to post the first Huet thread. All-star again? Probably . Damn, that situation could be worse. I still consider him our block buster trade bait at deadline by the latest.

Guess the bottom line of the game in my mind is very impressive score for a poor performance against a tough opponent. (Man I hate saying that about the cans, but they are playing well)

Edited October 15, 2007 by johnnyhasbeen

[OneSharpMarble]

Gainey added a bunch of role players, did his little dance and convinced everyone this was a new team. but when it comes right down to it it's the same old from last year, no real change, 7th to 10th place finish.

5 year plan!

[johnnyhasbeen]

Gainey added a bunch of role players, did his little dance and convinced everyone this was a new team. but when it comes right down to it it's the same old from last year, no real change, 7th to 10th place finish.

5 year plan!

Agreed, but I insisted last year we needed role players. On good nights we were one of the best teams in the league.

Everyone thinks we didn't move fast enough on a big ufa, but think about it. If Huet has good 1st half and Price is ready to take over, then we will have had plenty of time to have evaluated our positions and there will lots of trades available for FA at the deadline. We sign Huet, trade him and fill the weak spots for a run.

I think they will surpirise you and finish 6th or 7th.

[Chris]

Makes you wonder what the problem is if the role players keep changing but the results don't.

1. This team is way better then it was 3 years ago. Alot of talent coming up. That's all good news.

So I'll go out on a limb and say the top dogs and money makers aren't making the difference. They need to.

[OneSharpMarble]

Agreed, but I insisted last year we needed role players. On good nights we were one of the best teams in the league.

Everyone thinks we didn't move fast enough on a big ufa, but think about it. If Huet has good 1st half and Price is ready to take over, then we will have had plenty of time to have evaluated our positions and there will lots of trades available for FA at the deadline. We sign Huet, trade him and fill the weak spots for a run.

I think they will surpirise you and finish 6th or 7th.

You remember a single game where we dominated the opponents? Where we swept them aside like leaves? I sure dont, every night it was a struggle and for you to say we were in the same league as the the best teams (Buffalo, Detroit, Nashville etc) is laughable. Then you say "suprise you" and claim they are going to pull off a miracle and make it one spot higher than I have them slated at is equally as funny.

Koivu is great but he can't do it alone anymore, he isn't Lecavalier. Kovalev is mediocre and that is all, Ryder is made above average by Koivu. Koivu needs someone great, we need a offensive threat every night. Someone the league recognizes as great talent and we need a bruiser to protect him. We have the youth, we have the goaltending, our defense is fine it's our offense that sorely lacks.

[Wamsley01]

You remember a single game where we dominated the opponents? Where we swept them aside like leaves? I sure dont, every night it was a struggle and for you to say we were in the same league as the the best teams (Buffalo, Detroit, Nashville etc) is laughable. Then you say "suprise you" and claim they are going to pull off a miracle and make it one spot higher than I have them slated at is equally as funny.

Koivu is great but he can't do it alone anymore, he isn't Lecavalier. Kovalev is mediocre and that is all, Ryder is made above average by Koivu. Koivu needs someone great, we need a offensive threat every night. Someone the league recognizes as great talent and we need a bruiser to protect him. We have the youth, we have the goaltending, our defense is fine it's our offense that sorely lacks.

The veteran core of this team has already proven that they are nothing but a low seed. This team will live and die with the kids. If they do not step up get used to another 5 years of 93 points. But I have said a million times that I expect nothing out of this team this season. I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised....hoping.

But for the last 3 seasons I have seen Ryder, Higgins, Komisarek, Plekanec step up and become factors, then last season Kostitsyn, Lapierre and Latendresse, this season Chips and Price, next season maybe McDonagh, O'Byrne, Lil #### etc etc.

They are a young team on the rise. They are not a Cup contender right now, but all we need is patience. If you don't want to be patient you are going to drive yourself crazy. Take a look at Shanahan, Primeau and Bertuzzi when they were 20. Yet we are ripping Lats nightly. This kid was the 45th pick overall, he is not a polished number 1.

One game at a time, hope for the best. Beat Florida, the sun will rise on Wednesday

[Chris]

Well said Wamsley. Plus if they do beat Florida that will be 7 out 10 points. Not a bad start.

[OneSharpMarble]

The veteran core of this team has already proven that they are nothing but a low seed. This team will live and die with the kids. If they do not step up get used to another 5 years of 93 points. But I have said a million times that I expect nothing out of this team this season. I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised....hoping.

But for the last 3 seasons I have seen Ryder, Higgins, Komisarek, Plekanec step up and become factors, then last season Kostitsyn, Lapierre and Latendresse, this season Chips and Price, next season maybe McDonagh, O'Byrne, Lil #### etc etc.

They are a young team on the rise. They are not a Cup contender right now, but all we need is patience. If you don't want to be patient you are going to drive yourself crazy. Take a look at Shanahan, Primeau and Bertuzzi when they were 20. Yet we are ripping Lats nightly. This kid was the 45th pick overall, he is not a polished number 1.

One game at a time, hope for the best. Beat Florida, the sun will rise on Wednesday

Ryder? Oh you mean the guy we refused to sign long term? The one so important he will be a ufa end of this season? That Ryder? Teams have been born into the league, became contenders and won the cup in the time it took the habs to get to barely making the playoffs! Hell in one offseason the flyers went from basement dweller to touted as cup contenders!

Don't tell me this god of a GM known as Gainey cant do that here. I thought he was all powerful? If we are crossing our fingers and hoping one day a franchise player will emerge and save the day don't hold your breathe. While we hope and pray, real GMs are out there taking what they need and icing real teams.

[BTH]

What this team needs is one strong defenceman who can handle big forwards down low and a tough LW that can score 20+ goals while being competent defensively and adding some character to the team. Scott Walker and Ryan Smyth would have been great UFA pickups for us.

If we make those 2 additions, or maybe even one of them, we will jump from borderline playoff team to a 5th-6th seed. One of those additions, is already in the system, in O'Byrne. The forward could very well also be in the system in Latendresse. If those two guys are o nthe NHL lineup and clicking, we will be a much improved team. I think that is what will happen in the second half of the season.

This is the lineup I predict we see before the trade deadline.

Latendresse-Koivu-Ryder

Higgins-Plekanec-Kostitsyn

Lapierre-Chipchura-Kovalev

Begin-Smolinski-Kostopoulos

Markov-Komisarek

Hamrlik-Brisebois

Streit-O'Byrne

Price (he is just starting to take the reigns from Huet but this is just a guess)

Huet

Just a hunch that this is how things will wind up in a few months. The only trade would be trading Dandenault or Bouillon (or Gorges and/or Murray))

For the most part the comments on Kostopolous have nothing to do with his performance. It is about the way he is used and the ice time given to him (in this game).

I agree, with this and with what Chris is saying - Kostopoulos is playing well and throwing hits. When you check the icetime he didn't play more than any of the fourth liners - he was just always involved with the play without really doing much.

[johnnyhasbeen]

You remember a single game where we dominated the opponents? Where we swept them aside like leaves? I sure dont, every night it was a struggle and for you to say we were in the same league as the the best teams (Buffalo, Detroit, Nashville etc) is laughable. Then you say "suprise you" and claim they are going to pull off a miracle and make it one spot higher than I have them slated at is equally as funny.

Koivu is great but he can't do it alone anymore, he isn't Lecavalier. Kovalev is mediocre and that is all, Ryder is made above average by Koivu. Koivu needs someone great, we need a offensive threat every night. Someone the league recognizes as great talent and we need a bruiser to protect him. We have the youth, we have the goaltending, our defense is fine it's our offense that sorely lacks.

November 13th vs Sens springs to mind.....

Laugh all you want cat it is all good. By the way, why do you try so hard to be an ass? Bad up bringing?

[OneSharpMarble]

November 13th vs Sens springs to mind.....

Laugh all you want cat it is all good. By the way, why do you try so hard to be an ass? Bad up bringing?

Yeah I am sure the sens remember that and are dreading coming back to Montreal. Suckers making it to the stanley cup finals and all.

I'm an ass because I have an opinion different than yours? Then you try and make an insult towards my up bringing? Speaking of upbringing maybe we should ask your parents why they skipped over your lesson in manners.

[Wamsley01]

Ryder? Oh you mean the guy we refused to sign long term? The one so important he will be a ufa end of this season? That Ryder? Teams have been born into the league, became contenders and won the cup in the time it took the habs to get to barely making the playoffs! Hell in one offseason the flyers went from basement dweller to touted as cup contenders!

Don't tell me this god of a GM known as Gainey cant do that here. I thought he was all powerful? If we are crossing our fingers and hoping one day a franchise player will emerge and save the day don't hold your breathe. While we hope and pray, real GMs are out there taking what they need and icing real teams.

Philadelphia is not a cup contender. Jesus they have played 4 GAMES!! If Montreal had not blown the Leaf game they would be tied with the cup contending Flyers. Teams have been born in the time it has taken Montreal to rebuild, but that is because this rebuild did not begin until Houle was canned. He was not rebuilding he was tearing apart the team. I don't see Colombus, Minnesota, Atlanta etc contending for Cups. That is when the real rebuild began. Nobody believed that Houle was rebuilding, everybody was screaming for his head because he took a Stanely Cup team and made it a 20th placed team.

The rebuild began with Savard and has been accelerated under Timmins and Gainey. Ryder is not a make or break player on this team. But he is an asset that Gainey may turn into something. Nobody is saying Gainey is perfect, but I would rather have Gainey than Paul Holmgren. Gainey has proved he can build a championship team.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Wamsley01