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Game Thread | Hurricanes vs. Canadiens | 10/13/07


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Yeah I am sure the sens remember that and are dreading coming back to Montreal. Suckers making it to the stanley cup finals and all.

I'm an ass because I have an opinion different than yours? Then you try and make an insult towards my up bringing? Speaking of upbringing maybe we should ask your parents why they skipped over your lesson in manners.

It's not your opinion that makes you seem like a mule, but the way you put down others, you are not being potite, ever that I have noticed. As for my parents, I wil hold ask and see if they enlighten me, maybe you can do the same.

post note

Called mom, she says I was always a big ass, Guess my friends are right.

Oh, and the Sens might not but my wife sure does!!! That means more to me.

Edited by johnnyhasbeen
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you can't get outshot by 22 and consider your team working hard after 2 periods.

Everbody seems to be focusing on the shots on goal. Sure, the Habs might have been outshot, and thats not always a good thing, biut its not like it always matters either. Its not like the team with the most shots Wins the game. The team with the most goals does. Besides the Habs did have quite af ew really good chances at scoring, only they didnt actually register a shot on quite a few plays, which is why they didnt score more. Also, dont forget the Habs were playing the Cheezicannes. i.e. the team who won the Cup by blocking lots of shots by getting their Defense to tangle with the other teams forwards, knocking/tripping them down, and using them to block shots. :rolleyes:

Higgins has been playing well this year, but personally I think he was why the Habs lost. On the 1 play I was bummed with Higgins action. Shortly after the 1st goal of the game, when Ryder had the puck down low right at the left side of the net, for some unknown reason Higgins skated forward to the red goal line 1st, then skated towards the net so he was at the right side of the net. With Ryder that close to the left side of the net, Ward was heavily pinching to that side. Higgins silly action made a pass from Ryder impossible because you cant make a pass through the net. If Higgins had been paying more attention, he probably wouldnt skated towards the redline 1st, and actually went in front of the net, being completely open to a pass from Ryder, with 3/4 of the net totally open to put the puck in. If the Habs had of scored on that chance, I really believe it would have changed the momentum of that game in the Habs favour.

I agree with Athlétique.Canadien that empty netters shouldnt count. It was really a 1 goal game, so its not like the Habs got blown out or anything. It undeniable that the Cannes have been 1 of the hottest teams going right now. It's not like the Cannes didnt humiliate the Laffs 7-1 last week, and then finally gave the Sens their first loss this year. All in all, I think it was a decent outing against a team that has been on fire lately.

Hopefully by the time Habs play Cannes again on the 26th they will have a player that will teach LaRose some etiquette. That goal was one of the most direspectfull goals I've ever seen. All he really needed to do was skate behind the net and into the far corner and the game would have been over, but no, he just had to put the puck into the open net. :angry: Congrats LaRose you jackhole for the 1st and probably only goal you get this year. Your parents must be proud. :lol:

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Philadelphia is not a cup contender. Jesus they have played 4 GAMES!! If Montreal had not blown the Leaf game they would be tied with the cup contending Flyers. Teams have been born in the time it has taken Montreal to rebuild, but that is because this rebuild did not begin until Houle was canned. He was not rebuilding he was tearing apart the team. I don't see Colombus, Minnesota, Atlanta etc contending for Cups. That is when the real rebuild began. Nobody believed that Houle was rebuilding, everybody was screaming for his head because he took a Stanely Cup team and made it a 20th placed team.

The rebuild began with Savard and has been accelerated under Timmins and Gainey. Ryder is not a make or break player on this team. But he is an asset that Gainey may turn into something. Nobody is saying Gainey is perfect, but I would rather have Gainey than Paul Holmgren. Gainey has proved he can build a championship team.

STOP focusing on points and watch the games! We eek out victories and as long as thats as high as we aim we will never amount to anything. When Gainey brings in a franchise player then we acknowledge his building, till then it's all a sideways dance. Don't tell me last years flyers were a better looking team than the habs to UFA's!

It's not your opinion that makes you seem like a mule, but the way you put down others, you are not being potite, ever that I have noticed. As for my parents, I wil hold ask and see if they enlighten me, maybe you can do the same.

post note

Called mom, she says I was always a big ass, Guess my friends are right.

Oh, and the Sens might not but my wife sure does!!! That means more to me.

Oh I forgot, I am the one calling people "asses" and "mules" You don't like people arguing get off the internet or grow some balls. I have refrained from stooping to your level and calling you names so I am proud of myself. So when something worthwhile comes out of your mouth I will respond, till then keep trying. :clap:

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STOP focusing on points and watch the games! We eek out victories and as long as thats as high as we aim we will never amount to anything. When Gainey brings in a franchise player then we acknowledge his building, till then it's all a sideways dance. Don't tell me last years flyers were a better looking team than the habs to UFA's!

The only UFA they really got was Briere and a big part of his decision was because he had some good friends on the Flyers. Maybe we should start keeping only the most popular players with the best contacts? This makes Markov our most valuable player (not that he wouldn't be by any other system) because he is good friends with Ovechkin. ^_^

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STOP focusing on points and watch the games! We eek out victories and as long as thats as high as we aim we will never amount to anything. When Gainey brings in a franchise player then we acknowledge his building, till then it's all a sideways dance. Don't tell me last years flyers were a better looking team than the habs to UFA's!

Oh I forgot, I am the one calling people "asses" and "mules" You don't like people arguing get off the internet or grow some balls. I have refrained from stooping to your level and calling you names so I am proud of myself. So when something worthwhile comes out of your mouth I will respond, till then keep trying. :clap:

Stop focusing on your points??? WTF does that mean? Your points are what backs up your argument. When you try to break down somebody's argument you respond to their points. You made the point that Philly has done a great rebuilding job. That they have been viewed as a Cup contender by some.

WHO?? WTF is the point of saying ridiculous things if you do not

1. defend them and

2. back them up with sources.

Some people said means absolute shit to me.

If you think this team has not made progress in the last 5 years be my guest. But throwing 9 million a year at Danny Heatley would not change the makeup of this team. This team is being rebuilt through the farm. If you plant seeds they do not bloom in a month.

LOL, stop focusing on points. That is some funny shit.

Edited by Wamsley01
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Philadelphia is not a cup contender. Jesus they have played 4 GAMES!! If Montreal had not blown the Leaf game they would be tied with the cup contending Flyers.

...... I would rather have Gainey than Paul Holmgren. Gainey has proved he can build a championship team.

Philadelphia is not a cup contender? Why not though? Time will tell either way. Phily will be higher than the Habs in the standings though, I'm fairly certain of that.

I would rather have Gainey than Paul Holmgren. Gainey has proved he can build a championship team.

Umm, who you rather have as GM isnt the most pressing matter though. The more important thing is: Which team had the better team when they took over as GM? The answer isnt the Habs, its Phily!!

Bobby Clarke only ran Phily into the ground for 1 season, which was primarily caused by the NHL rules. When was the last time the Habs made it past round 1? How aboot making it to the 3rd round? It's only been a few years since Phily made it to the 3rd round.

great rebuilding job? From what did they have to rebuild from exactly? 1 bad season? :lol:

The Flyers are 1 of my least favourite teams, but I'm knowledgeable enough to know that their team doesnt suck. Their goaltending did!! See the grammar I used there i.e. did, as in not any more.

I'll say it again: Miller<Biron!!

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Stop focusing on your points??? WTF does that mean? Your points are what backs up your argument. When you try to break down somebody's argument you respond to their points. You made the point that Philly has done a great rebuilding job. That they have been viewed as a Cup contender by some.

WHO?? WTF is the point of saying ridiculous things if you do not

1. defend them and

2. back them up with sources.

Some people said means absolute shit to me.

If you think this team has not made progress in the last 5 years be my guest. But throwing 9 million a year at Danny Heatley would not change the makeup of this team. This team is being rebuilt through the farm. If you plant seeds they do not bloom in a month.

LOL, stop focusing on points. That is some funny shit.

I'm pretty sure he meant points in the standings - you said we are 1 point back of Philly and all we had to do was win the Leafs game. He said, points don't matter, watch the games, we're playing like crap.

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Ryder? Oh you mean the guy we refused to sign long term? The one so important he will be a ufa end of this season? That Ryder? Teams have been born into the league, became contenders and won the cup in the time it took the habs to get to barely making the playoffs! Hell in one offseason the flyers went from basement dweller to touted as cup contenders!

Don't tell me this god of a GM known as Gainey cant do that here. I thought he was all powerful? If we are crossing our fingers and hoping one day a franchise player will emerge and save the day don't hold your breathe. While we hope and pray, real GMs are out there taking what they need and icing real teams.

Regardless of whether he may end up leaving us next season, how has Ryder not been a factor for us in the past 3 years? The guy competes for the Calder his rookie year, and has had nothing short of a "scoring" season every year on the Habs. He has been the only one on this team who had the capability of scoring 30 goals in a season, and just because we didn't have the talent surrounding him to help him out...he's useless now? If you are expecting him to carry the team on his back your sorely mistaken, but for the Canadiens, he's been a big factor. Your making it seem like he's a piece of junk.

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I'm pretty sure he meant points in the standings - you said we are 1 point back of Philly and all we had to do was win the Leafs game. He said, points don't matter, watch the games, we're playing like crap.

My bad, I misunderstood. I assumed he was referring to Phillys quick start for the Cup talk. I have yet to hear anybody refer to the Flyers as Cup contenders. As far as the Habs playing like crap, well they outplayed Carolina and Toronto and played Pittsburgh pretty even. They no showed Saturday night that is for sure. But to right off the season as just another struggling season is a little early.

The only large dissappointment I have felt is in the play of Latendresse. But he is 20 years old. That is going to happen.

This team is not a contender this year, but the negativity towards a team that no showed 1 game and played 3 games against major playoff contenders is absolutlely mind blowing.

If having one of the top ranked minor league system in the NHL is not an improvement over drafting Brad Brown, Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Jason Ward, Eric Chouinard and Alexander Buturlinn with your first rounder for 7 straight years then obviously I am wasting my breath.

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Regardless of whether he may end up leaving us next season, how has Ryder not been a factor for us in the past 3 years? The guy competes for the Calder his rookie year, and has had nothing short of a "scoring" season every year on the Habs. He has been the only one on this team who had the capability of scoring 30 goals in a season, and just because we didn't have the talent surrounding him to help him out...he's useless now? If you are expecting him to carry the team on his back your sorely mistaken, but for the Canadiens, he's been a big factor. Your making it seem like he's a piece of junk.

Wow the reading comprehension on this board is really.....it just makes me rub my temples. :wacko:

My bad, I misunderstood. I assumed he was referring to Phillys quick start for the Cup talk. I have yet to hear anybody refer to the Flyers as Cup contenders. As far as the Habs playing like crap, well they outplayed Carolina and Toronto and played Pittsburgh pretty even. They no showed Saturday night that is for sure. But to right off the season as just another struggling season is a little early.

The only large dissappointment I have felt is in the play of Latendresse. But he is 20 years old. That is going to happen.

This team is not a contender this year, but the negativity towards a team that no showed 1 game and played 3 games against major playoff contenders is absolutlely mind blowing.

If having one of the top ranked minor league system in the NHL is not an improvement over drafting Brad Brown, Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Jason Ward, Eric Chouinard and Alexander Buturlinn with your first rounder for 7 straight years then obviously I am wasting my breath.

In my eyes we lost 4 games so far, eeking out victories isn't winning anything. It's not about winning or losing, it's all about how you play. You can't build an entire team through the farm, especially when you have a farm devoid of marquee players. We've made non moves, we are no better than the last 15 years because we are still struggling to get a playoff spot. If we don't make a big move to attract a key play prepare to have a mediocre team for the next 10 years.

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Wow the reading comprehension on this board is really.....it just makes me rub my temples. :wacko:

In my eyes we lost 4 games so far, eeking out victories isn't winning anything. It's not about winning or losing, it's all about how you play. You can't build an entire team through the farm, especially when you have a farm devoid of marquee players. We've made non moves, we are no better than the last 15 years because we are still struggling to get a playoff spot. If we don't make a big move to attract a key play prepare to have a mediocre team for the next 10 years.

So the Habs are 0-4. OK. Whatever floats your boat. I must have missed that in my new NHL.

You can build a championship through your farm. You choose the players you want to build around and you deal

the depth for other players to compliment them. As far as the farm being devoid of marquee players, what is Carey Price? What does he have to prove to be considered a marquee prospect?

For arguments sake lets look at the 2000/2003 NJ Devils

Homegrown talent

Brodeur

Elias

Niedermayer

Gomez

Brylin

Rafalski

Madden

Gionta

Traded homegrown talent

Stevens (acquired as compensation for Shanahan)

Arnott (acquired for Bill Guerin)

Mogilny (acquired for Brendan Morrison)

Nieuwendyk (acquired for Arnott)

Langenbrunner (acquired for Arnott)

That is a championship fully built from within. No major free agent signings, just strong drafting and shrewd

trades. End result, 2 championships.

Nobody expects the Habs to build their whole team through the farm. You build a solid foundation filled with NHL players.

You make the proper decisions on the players that fit your system, and then you maximize the trade value on the players who do not.

Edited by Wamsley01
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Well, I came late to this party and I can't say I'm sorry. I'd probably have keeled over from aggravation.

I'm getting really, really tired of people around here absolutely panicking , or else flying into embittered ah-everybody-sucks-from-Gainey-on-down rages every time we lose. I know, we're fans and all, but do we have to get so darned hysterical? It's like after we lost in OT to the Leafs, everyone was ready to jump off a bridge. For heaven's sake.

What this debate comes down to is this. Do you believe in building from within or not? If you don't, then fine - let the Habs emulate the 'strategies' of the Columbus Blue Jackets or Flordia Panthers ad infinitum. Me, I'm with Wamsley01. Bob is patiently pushing a snowball. It's tough because he started with a couple of flakes on a gravel driveway. Now we've at least got a bit of snow to build with. When the tipping point finally comes, our modest-but-promising snowball will take on its own momentum: young players create the image of an up-and-coming team; this attracts UFAs; they make the young players look even better; this attracts more UFAs; this gives Bob more assets to deal; and on and on it goes. Eventually, we look like that massive, unstoppable snowball Captain Haddock made in Prisoners of the Sun. And look out for squalls! :lol:

However, this does assume that our key young players pan out. The prognosis looks good, but you never know.

The other variable is whether we can replicate the same kind of steady, reliable system that a New Jersey implemented. I believe in Carbo but the verdict is still out on him.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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So if the Flyers are a Cup contender after 2 weeks because they won a few games, that must mean that the Habs have been cup contenders for the last 3 years. They started the season very well for 3 years in a row. Gainey went after UFAs like crazy. We got what we got. Deal with it. I wish we would have signed Smythe or Gomez or Briere or Drury, but we didn't (couldn't) sign them. Lets hope that Higgins continues to develop, and Price turns out to be a star. Drop someone and get Lappiere back on the ice. A fantastic goalie and a system is all it takes to win cups. Brodeur and the New Jersey Trappers have shown this before.

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So wait, if we do poorly we are still rebuilding and this is all in Bobs plan and if we do well that was also Bobs plan because he knew the kids would pull through. Hell if that isn't a well protected bubble of denial I have never seen one.

Bob can do no wrong, he can....

- sit by and watch the team fall apart

- and a season go down the drain

- then watch a blue chip talent walk away for nothing (Souray)

- and then in the offseason get zero franchise replacements while vastly over paying for one mediocre defenseman (Hamrlik)

- Get a couple 3rd and 4th liners to satisfy the media

- Give one of those homegrown talents another meager contract probably pissing him off. (Ryder)

But hey maybe next year, or the year after, hey he has only had what like 5 or so years and still scrambling for that elusive 8th place. There is no point arguing, you will just say "wait another year" because that is the mantra that takes the focus off all the mistakes. The worst crime by far was Souray, and if Ryder goes the same way Gainey had better be fired on the spot.

Last year it was the "5 year plan" but now Gainey has done nothing to improve this team and all of a sudden you don't hear that "5 year plan" mentioned anymore. Has that become the 10 year plan?

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Wow OneSharpMarble, what a negative point of view!

So wait, if we do poorly we are still rebuilding and this is all in Bobs plan and if we do well that was also Bobs plan because he knew the kids would pull through. Hell if that isn't a well protected bubble of denial I have never seen one.

In fact, if we don't make the playoffs this year, it will be a failure. No excuses there. The management made clear that not making the playoffs would be a failure. Moreover, Bob always said that the goal was to win the Cup in 2009. If they do not make a good playoff run in 2009, it

would show that Bob's plan failed.

Bob can do no wrong, he can....

- sit by and watch the team fall apart

Well, he did try seriously to sign Brière and Smyth. It seems that it is because of Joe Sakic insistance on july first that Smyth signed with Colorado (see the article on NHL.com). It is Bob who got Timmins. Our drafting since 2001 isn't what I'd call "watching the team fall apart"

- then watch a blue chip talent walk away for nothing (Souray)

We missed the playoffs by ONE victory last year and BG should have traded his PP weapon? Seriously, it's easy to say AFTER we missed the playoffs...

- and then in the offseason get zero franchise replacements while vastly over paying for one mediocre defenseman (Hamrlik)

Hamrlik mediocre? Overpaid, ok, but mediocre? Don't think so.

- Get a couple 3rd and 4th liners to satisfy the media

BG and Carbs believe in experience. We have alot of youth on that team already (Higgins, Pleks, Kosts, Lats, Grabs, Chips, Komi, and Gorges are all under 25 years old...) Not signing Smokes and the Greek would have us with more youth and less depth when injuries will begin to hit the team (and they will; Saku has two complete season in all his career, Kovy and Higgins suffered injuries in the last two seasons, and so on...)

- Give one of those homegrown talents another meager contract probably pissing him off. (Ryder)

I don't know if a LEAFS fan can be considered as an homeground talent, but I agree that the relationship doesn't look good long term... but who's fault is it... can't say...

If we miss the playoffs this year, I'll gladly ackowledge that you were right, but untill that, let's be enthousiast fans :)

Edited by Punkned
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I'll say it again: do you believe in building from within or don't you?

If you do, then ripping out your hair because Bob failed to bag high-end UFAs is somewhat beside the point. A high-end UFA would be nice, but can't be the fundamental determinant of Gainey's success or failure, if you believe in building from within. That fundamental determinant, rather, will be the young players.

So now the secondary question becomes, do you believe in our young players? Are Komisarek, Higgins, Plekanec, the Kostityns, Latendresse, Price, Halak, Lapierre, etc., the nucleus of a future mediocre team? Or are they a fine crop of young talent? If you believe the former, then you're certainly entitled to fume that Gainey is a bust. The problem is that it's hard to believe the former.

Having said that, again, we can't postpone judgement indefinitely. We do need to see progress. (I don't subscribe to the 09 deadline, though - that seems silly and arbitrary to me). There are plenty of signs of progress: young talent everywhere, good people at every position in the organization, victory in Hamilton, and two outstanding half-seasons, i.e., the second half of 05-06 and the first half of 06-07. However, none of this has translated into the team taking a significant jump in the standings. So, is the glass half-empty or half-full?

Well, now we're back to the original question. Do you believe in building from within? If so, then the indicators of progress I've mentioned are significant. If not, then they're not.

*****

As for Souray and Ryder: what can you say? We can all agree that in hindsight Souray should have been dealt. Just bear in mind, if you're one of these believers in the magical healing powers of UFAs, that a big part of Gainey's calculation was that the team had a much better chance of making the playoffs with Souray than without him, and that our success or failure in making the playoffs was a huge determinant of our success or failure in signing star UFAs. UFA logic is what led Gainey to NOT deal Souray. Beyond that, Souray and Ryder were part of the nucleus of the team that has been so consistently mediocre for the last three or four years. I don't see how you can assail that team for mediocrity, and then panic because that nucleus is not being kept. (Otherwise put: would you really have been happy, in a cap system, with Gainey signing Ryder for five years at $4.5 million?)

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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I'm confused with this concern about Gainey. He tried to acquire UFA's. He's demonstrated that. Before Gainey came in, many a time we as fans would complain that we didn't pursue UFA's. Who was the last UFA the Habs acquired before Gainey came in? Czerkawski doesn't count because that was a trade.

When? Who?

So we get a GM who'll do this and understands that to build a team it must be from the goal out. People who don't get Gainey do just that; Don't get it!

Price/Halak/McDonagh/Fischer/Subban = from the goal out. Patience. If Gainey gets a good offer he'll do a deal maybe. If it "might" help the club and we pay too much, he won't bother.

Why complain about a good thing?

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(I don't subscribe to the 09 deadline, though - that seems silly and arbitrary to me).

It is. But it's an arbitrary deadline that BG set himself. Not winning the Cup in 2009 wouldn't be a failure, but not making a good playoff run would put some serious doubts about "the plan". Improving every year would have us making the playoffs this year, and then winning one or two series in 2009. There's no real deadline, but succes have to come before all our youth are UFAs...

***

By the way, not winning the cup in 2009 would make the 2000-2009 decade the fist Cup-less decade in the Canadiens' history!

Edited by Punkned
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I'll say it again: do you believe in building from within or don't you?

If you do, then ripping out your hair because Bob failed to bag high-end UFAs is somewhat beside the point. A high-end UFA would be nice, but can't be the fundamental determinant of Gainey's success or failure, if you believe in building from within. That fundamental determinant, rather, will be the young players.

So now the secondary question becomes, do you believe in our young players? Are Komisarek, Higgins, Plekanec, the Kostityns, Latendresse, Price, Halak, Lapierre, etc., the nucleus of a future mediocre team? Or are they a fine crop of young talent? If you believe the former, then you're certainly entitled to fume that Gainey is a bust. The problem is that it's hard to believe the former.

Having said that, again, we can't postpone judgement indefinitely. We do need to see progress. (I don't subscribe to the 09 deadline, though - that seems silly and arbitrary to me). There are plenty of signs of progress: young talent everywhere, good people at every position in the organization, victory in Hamilton, and two outstanding half-seasons, i.e., the second half of 05-06 and the first half of 06-07. However, none of this has translated into the team taking a significant jump in the standings. So, is the glass half-empty or half-full?

Well, now we're back to the original question. Do you believe in building from within? If so, then the indicators of progress I've mentioned are significant. If not, then they're not.

*****

As for Souray and Ryder: what can you say? We can all agree that in hindsight Souray should have been dealt. Just bear in mind, if you're one of these believers in the magical healing powers of UFAs, that a big part of Gainey's calculation was that the team had a much better chance of making the playoffs with Souray than without him, and that our success or failure in making the playoffs was a huge determinant of our success or failure in signing star UFAs. UFA logic is what led Gainey to NOT deal Souray. Beyond that, Souray and Ryder were part of the nucleus of the team that has been so consistently mediocre for the last three or four years. I don't see how you can assail that team for mediocrity, and then panic because that nucleus is not being kept. (Otherwise put: would you really have been happy, in a cap system, with Gainey signing Ryder for five years at $4.5 million?)

Bang on CC.

If all the youth on this team fail to make strides and the Habs miss the playoffs again, then I will begin to get nervous. But the youth has made strides. The core is slowly passing the baton from old to young. The Bulldogs won the Calder Cup with major contributions from Price, Lapierre, Chips, Grabs and O'Byrne. Scouts have raved about the Habs 2007 Draft results.

If that is spinning your wheels from when we were running with Audette, Juneau, Bulis, Petrov then to each his own.

This is far from the Houle era. I have seen so many instances of a team canning a GM because of lack of results only to see the new GM step in and have the prevoius regime's youth make him look like a genius. OSM can complain all he wants. I like the route they are headed. I am not an eternal optimist. I sat and looked at my TV with no hope during the last of the Houle years and the early Savard era. This is far from the same.

Chacon son gout

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