Time for an enforcer

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I loved Todd Ewen. I remember one fight where he physically picked up the other guy and deposited him into the opposition benches. How humiliatin'! He tried it again the next time out, but couldn't quite manage it. He obvious thought about making it his signature move...too bad, it was truly hilarious.

Gino Odjick (who once chased after a friend of mine with a knife) was another bona-fide tough cookie. Too bad his career and much of his post-playing life has been ruined by concussions.

The trouble with these goons, of course, is that you're eating up roster and cap space on a human pilon. If we add a goon, that's one less spot for a young player who can actually play hockey. Now, a Detroit or Ottawa can afford to carry a guy like that. But being a thoroughly 'developmental' organization, and one not yet securely vaulted into 'top team' status, that deprives us of some important wiggle room in which to develop our young guns while also icing a winning roster. In short: I dunno. And there's profundity for you.

Edited November 19, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[BCHabnut]

I tell you, Carcillo from Phoenix, he isn't just a goon, he has 4g 4a better than most of our guys that can't fight. He could play regular on the 3rd line for us. Not a waste of space.

Zednik could kick his butt. I think the best 2 way tough guy we have had in years was Scott Thornton. It broke my heart when they traded him. I say let Kosty and Cube handle the little fighting that we do. And give Begin a raise for being a very good agitator. Maybe Lats should take boxing in the summer. He seems to like the idea of fighting.

[johnnyhasbeen]

Zednik could kick his butt. I think the best 2 way tough guy we have had in years was Scott Thornton. It broke my heart when they traded him. I say let Kosty and Cube handle the little fighting that we do. And give Begin a raise for being a very good agitator. Maybe Lats should take boxing in the summer. He seems to like the idea of fighting.

Ummm , not likely, he could clean the ice with everyone on our bench. Where the heck did you come up with a statement like that? Have you ever seen him fight? Do you even know who I am talking about or did you just think it was a good time to make a smart comment? I saw those 2 handle the situation very well on Saturday, I warn you, we will lose our edge when the kids are afraid,. It's coming. No Lats doesn't like the idea of fighting, he can't but feels he has to. He will get the crap beat out of him regularly if he tries. No Carcillo isn't a heavy weight, but he will go with them, handle himself and is not a waste of roster space as he has offensive plusses. But hey, you can have your opinion, I'll have mine.

[Habsfan]

No Lats doesn't like the idea of fighting, he can't but feels he has to. He will get the crap beat out of him regularly if he tries.

I agree. I don't think Latendresse goes around looking to fight, but he definitely feels that he has to. not many people can actually stand up to Chara and not look like a rag doll! However I will say that it was nice to see Latendresse go to Kovy's defense after the hit from Chara. It was just unfortunate for the kid that Chara beat him up pretty good!

Edited November 19, 2007 by Habsfan

[simonus]

I agree. I don't think Latendresse goes around looking to fight, but he definitely feels that he has to. not many people can actually stand up to Chara and not look like a rag doll! However I will say that it was nice to see Latendresse go to Kovy's defense after the hit from Chara. It was just unfortunate for the kid that Chara beat him up pretty good!

I think Lats is right if he feels he has to. I know lats doesn't always play the "big man" game, but I think the ability to defend himself should be part of his repetoire. He is a big, strong guy who has offense and can lay guys out - he should be prepared to be tough. I don't think he's the next Cam Neely, but a little hockey fights 101 (whether through experience or actual teaching) would be in order. I don't want montreal to turn into a goon team (nor do I think they are built for it), but I would totally be for a little fight training. Fighting is not like speed or "soft hands", it is a skill that can, to a large degree, be taught. Why go and bring in an otherwise useless player if you can get the little bit of fighting you need from the players who otherwise merit ice time.

[Bacchus]

I'd like to see us get a player who can fight, but not a pure goon. However, they seem to be a rare commodity, and we don't really have anything in the pipes for now ... so maybe we'll have to wait for some Gainey magic.

[johnnyhasbeen]

I think Lats is right if he feels he has to. I know lats doesn't always play the "big man" game, but I think the ability to defend himself should be part of his repetoire. He is a big, strong guy who has offense and can lay guys out - he should be prepared to be tough. I don't think he's the next Cam Neely, but a little hockey fights 101 (whether through experience or actual teaching) would be in order. I don't want montreal to turn into a goon team (nor do I think they are built for it), but I would totally be for a little fight training. Fighting is not like speed or "soft hands", it is a skill that can, to a large degree, be taught. Why go and bring in an otherwise useless player if you can get the little bit of fighting you need from the players who otherwise merit ice time.

I agree, we added a motivation coach, why not a fighting coach?

[Habsfan]

I think Lats is right if he feels he has to. I know lats doesn't always play the "big man" game, but I think the ability to defend himself should be part of his repetoire. He is a big, strong guy who has offense and can lay guys out - he should be prepared to be tough. I don't think he's the next Cam Neely, but a little hockey fights 101 (whether through experience or actual teaching) would be in order. I don't want montreal to turn into a goon team (nor do I think they are built for it), but I would totally be for a little fight training. Fighting is not like speed or "soft hands", it is a skill that can, to a large degree, be taught. Why go and bring in an otherwise useless player if you can get the little bit of fighting you need from the players who otherwise merit ice time.

Give him some time. He hasn'T played in 100 NHL games yet and he's just 20 years old. I'm pretty sure that by the time he's 24 years old, he,ll be able to defend himself(and his teammates) on a more regular basis! Not to mention that his skating will have improved and that he'll be a more complete power forward!

Edited November 19, 2007 by Habsfan

[KidRock]

I tell you, Carcillo from Phoenix, he isn't just a goon, he has 4g 4a better than most of our guys that can't fight. He could play regular on the 3rd line for us. Not a waste of space.

I agree. Carcillo has some baggage but is well worth the minimal risk. Third line winger that can sometimes fill in on second line. Just not sure if the Habs can get him out of Phoenix.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

I think Lats is right if he feels he has to. I know lats doesn't always play the "big man" game, but I think the ability to defend himself should be part of his repetoire. He is a big, strong guy who has offense and can lay guys out - he should be prepared to be tough. I don't think he's the next Cam Neely, but a little hockey fights 101 (whether through experience or actual teaching) would be in order. I don't want montreal to turn into a goon team (nor do I think they are built for it), but I would totally be for a little fight training. Fighting is not like speed or "soft hands", it is a skill that can, to a large degree, be taught. Why go and bring in an otherwise useless player if you can get the little bit of fighting you need from the players who otherwise merit ice time.

Let's forget about the Chara incident for a moment. The guy is a moose. Not too many can go toe to toe with him. I am all for getting a good defensive player that is tough as balls to play on the fourth. Now, Simonus, after reading your post I did realize something. When Gainey traded up in the draft to get Latendresse I didn't know much about him. All the hype around training camp and other things I really did think that we were getting a big tough strong player that would hit, score, and fight if he had to. He may still become that Cam Neely type player. It took Cam many years to develop in Vancouver and Boston. Lats confidence is down the drain at all levels. Much like another poster said this will eventually get to the rest of the team aswell. If we had at least one bonafide bruiser I think everyone on the team would benefit, especially guys like Latendresse, Komi would get even meaner, begin, Kovalev, Kosto all would get massive chips on thier shoulders. All of that confidence would ooze into more hits more space, MORE GOALS!!!!!!!!

Just read that article up front on Robinson, the fight with Schultz and the effect it had on the Canadiens and the flyers and the rest of the series. Burke said it best the other night. " I need that big hit, I need that big save, I need that big goal and I need a fight, that's what puts people on the edge of thier seat and coming back for more." I couldn't agree more. A big tough guy would really help the development of this young team. You guys know how brutal and aggresive play-off hockey gets. Fluffy teams don't go very far, and we are fluffy at the moment.

[Neech]

It would be nice to see a Habs player win a fight for a change, but it's not worth having some one who can't contribute in other ways.

[Sir_Boagalott]

a little hockey fights 101 (whether through experience or actual teaching) would be in order. I don't want montreal to turn into a goon team (nor do I think they are built for it), but I would totally be for a little fight training. Fighting is not like speed or "soft hands", it is a skill that can, to a large degree, be taught. Why go and bring in an otherwise useless player if you can get the little bit of fighting you need from the players who otherwise merit ice time.

Hmm, so you dont want a tough guy on the roster, you just want to get a tough guy to beat up Habs players in practice to teach them?

Lats will never be a real fighter. Watch him fight. I have yet to see him land a solid punch on anybody. Lats just doesnt have it in him. Not to mention he could injure himself trying, its not really worth it. This was the same problem with Souray and his injured wrist having to stand up for his teammates. They are too valuable players to be fighting.

All the people saying "no goons" are confused. The majority of tough guys in the NHL actually have more skill than you give them credit for. There are very few players in the NHL who dont have the skill to be there, even if they are there primarily to fight.

Kostopoulos simply isnt enough. He is a complete joke of a fighter and is only an upgrade of Murray because he is a better grinder. I've seen Kosto get 4 or 5 fighting majors this year and I've yet to see him fight.

[lazy26]

I agree, we added a motivation coach, why not a fighting coach?

Didn't Boogaard teach a class this past summer? Maybe our guys should have enrolled.

Edited November 19, 2007 by lazy26

[BCHabnut]

Ummm , not likely, he could clean the ice with everyone on our bench. Where the heck did you come up with a statement like that? Have you ever seen him fight? Do you even know who I am talking about or did you just think it was a good time to make a smart comment? I saw those 2 handle the situation very well on Saturday, I warn you, we will lose our edge when the kids are afraid,. It's coming. No Lats doesn't like the idea of fighting, he can't but feels he has to. He will get the crap beat out of him regularly if he tries. No Carcillo isn't a heavy weight, but he will go with them, handle himself and is not a waste of roster space as he has offensive plusses. But hey, you can have your opinion, I'll have mine.

Yep, watched all his fights on U tube. Tough guy in little league when he can dance around with his helmet off. He looks tough as a middle weight. I find it amusing when peole get all pissed off on here and defensive. Sorry, I don't think he's that big of a deal, that's all.

[newf]

The Hf Bruins forum, you'd have thought Beantown won the game how excited they were to beat up on our players. We have to play these guys a lot, get a goon I say, just for the games we need him, Gratton is on waivers two or three days now we might have missed him but yeah, I don't like fighting but as long as other teams do we should think about it . . .

Latendresse is big, if he were to develop a punch, Montreal fans would love it! Plus he's sorta "hot," no?

funniest thing i seen posted on here ever... baahahahah

maybe Ryder should start droppin the gloves.... *pin drop*.. :lol: :lol:

Edited November 20, 2007 by newf

[Wamsley01]

Latendresse has had concussion issues in the past. Probably not the best idea to send him out to fight.

[KEEP26]

ryan clowe, ryan clowe, ryan clowe...this guy can play and fight..make the call bob

[newf]

any extra toughness the Habs should be able to find it within their organization to fill that role... O'Byrne .. Cote ?

[JLP]

any extra toughness the Habs should be able to find it within their organization to fill that role... O'Byrne .. Cote ?

question for Bulldog watchers -- O'Byrne has the size and bulk and 129 PIM last season but does he have the warrior spirit?

[MAK]

question for Bulldog watchers -- O'Byrne has the size and bulk and 129 PIM last season but does he have the warrior spirit?

apparently he's a younger komisarek.

[Habsfan]

apparently he's a younger and bigger version of komisarek.

[newf]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Habsfan]

OK, this is starting to get out of hand. Our boys got leveled by the islanders last night. Koivu, Hamrlik, Komisarek(didnT' get leveled but was forced into a fight).

I know that Carbo and the rest of the coaching staff don't want an enforcer, but our boys need somebody to police the ice. Once the game was out of hand for the Islanders, they started head hunting and taking cheap shots. Had we had a George Laraque out there, none of this crap would have occured cause the Islanders would have known that if they tried something, they would have to answer to our enforcer. Obviously, if we could get our hands on an enfrocer who can skate and play hockey, it would be a huge bonus (like Chris Neil in Ottawa) but those kinds of players are very rare!

IN the event Bob can't find a decent enforcer, i say bring up O'Byrne, and then teach him and Komisarek how to fight. SHow them the basics of how to defend themselves on skates. They are both big boys (6'4"-240pds and 6'5"-235pds) and could hurt quite a few playes in the league if they knew how to fight. Most importantly, this could allow them to intimidate other players. Knowing that you don't always have to fight is a very good thing. If we had Komisarek, O'Byrne and Kostopoulos who would share the fighting duties, i think it would go a long way to get some respect from the other teams!

Edited November 22, 2007 by Habsfan

[ShortHanded]

OK, this is starting to get out of hand. Our boys got leveled by the islanders last night. Koivu, Hamrlik, Komisarek(didnT' get leveled but was forced into a fight).

I know that Carbo and the rest of the coaching staff don't want an enforcer, but our boys need somebody to police the ice. Once the game was out of hand for the Islanders, they started head hunting and taking cheap shots. Had we had a George Laraque out there, none of this crap would have occured cause the Islanders would have known that if they tried something, they would have to answer to our enforcer. Obviously, if we could get our hands on an enfrocer who can skate and play hockey, it would be a huge bonus (like Chris Neil in Ottawa) but those kinds of players are very rare!

IN the event Bob can't find a decent enforcer, i say bring up O'Byrne, and then teach him and Komisarek how to fight. SHow them the basics of how to defend themselves on skates. They are both big boys (6'4"-240pds and 6'5"-235pds) and could hurt quite a few playes in the league if they knew how to fight. Most importantly, this could allow them to intimidate other players. Knowing that you don't always have to fight is a very good thing. If we had Komisarek, O'Byrne and Kostopoulos who would share the fighting duties, i think it would go a long way to get some respect from the other teams!

I think O'byrne taking on that role is fine. He's in the organization already, looks like he'll be a decent player, and was in our plans to begin with. I'm against going and getting someone just for it, but bringing up O'byrne and having it be *PART* of his job to let the other team know they can't take cheap shots is fine. I don't want Komi fighting. If he fights some 2 minute a game goon on the other team, and they're both off for 5 or for the rest of the game, we've just lost one of our top 3. Not a good trade for us. If we lose O'byrne for 5 or for the rest of the game, not the end of the world...

[Habitforming]

I think O'byrne taking on that role is fine. He's in the organization already, looks like he'll be a decent player, and was in our plans to begin with. I'm against going and getting someone just for it, but bringing up O'byrne and having it be *PART* of his job to let the other team know they can't take cheap shots is fine. I don't want Komi fighting. If he fights some 2 minute a game goon on the other team, and they're both off for 5 or for the rest of the game, we've just lost one of our top 3. Not a good trade for us. If we lose O'byrne for 5 or for the rest of the game, not the end of the world...

Right now anyway.

O'Byrne isn't a career minor leaguer though. He could bring alot to this team and it doesn't include being the enforcer for the team.

I don't think we need one at all. Komisarek, Kostopoulos and O'Byrne (if they can ever dump Francis "mini-me" Bouillion) can all do the job without dropping the gloves; they just have to play tough and physical on every shift. Players know who the tough guys are and they don't push it....we just retired the number of the all time best at it.