My Message for Bob Gainey

[habsfan88]

Okay okay, we all know Bob's little plan of "building through the draft". So far we have some core players that we have acquired through the draft like Komisarek, Plekanec, Latendresse, Kostitsyn, Chipchura, etc. We are at the point where we have a substantial enough prospects that we can afford to make a trade.

If Gainey continues to sit on his hands, and remain quiet, and let us keep going through this rough patch we keep having every single damn year, that is not going to help us. We already have the players through the draft, and although we can still continue to draft players, in the meantime lets make a f***ing trade!!!!!!!

Ryder - GONE PLEASE

And by trade I don't mean a little "sale", as in Ribeiro for Niinimaa, or like Ryder for a 3rd round pick. Lets bring in an impact player. We can't continue to have this city rest on Koivu's shoulders, and the crazy media ripping into him for the team's lack of effort. I know Ryder alone won't bring us an impact player, he has lost value, but lets put together a package - perhaps through Huet in there too if we need to, or a 2nd round pick or even a 1st round pick if it's worth it.

The point of this whole post is that Gainey can't continue to sit on his hands - we can all see it, we head down the exact same path every damn single year. This city is used to winning, and is used to excellence with it's long storied successful history and after 10 years of dissapointing hockey it's about time we let the city have a player who can actually help us out there. We have been building through the draft, it has helped is develop a strong core of young players, but you know as well as I do we don't have "the player", it's time to make the move.

I just don't know what I'll do if Gainey continues to be quiet, even though it'll be like the 5th year in a row where every fan of this team can tell we are going absolutely nowhere without a move. At least Ferguson has the balls to make a big move once in a while...

SAVE US GAINEY

[saskhab]

What, so we can draft another American blueliner who makes the team in 5 years? You aren't going to get the kind of impact player you desire from that kind of trade.

[brboo]

They only thing that will bring us an impact player is unfortunately guys like Higgins, Komisarek, Price, or Markov. There is always the possibility of trading Huet or Halak, but there is no market for goalies right now (they're like opinions, eveyone's got one) If only we coulda landed a few of the free agents bob tried to get the last few years, we would have more options, but right now it's either wait a few more years untill some guys are ready to take a bigger role, or trade away a young guy for some help now.

[Colin]

The team has shown it can play. Maybe what's needed is a re-evaluation of the head coach. Team did well last year until Christmas then fell apart. Didn't come back until really late. Same thing is happening this season. Perhaps Carbo didn't learn the lessons he should have last year.

[Punkned]

Gainey was interviewed on RDS before the game. He said that there are few trade options at this time of the year because most team are still in the playoff run.

He said that player could be called from Hamilton if the team continues to struggle.

[bombTHEice]

A call up from Hamilton?

Yea I'd like to see Lapierre and O'Byrne as they won't be any worse than guys like Ryder, Smolinski, Bouillon, Brisebois, etc. But heck, this are bottom pairing players ... they might bring some more energy to the team but they won't solve the problem. What we really need is a CONSISTANT offencive threat, someone who isn't available right now I suppose.

We can only pray that the team also plays as a team and that they show more determination and energy.

There are still some holes and I don't think that we can fill them from within ... we really need a trade as it seems that free agents aren't a solution for this team too.

Those dmd slumps ...

[Prime Minister Koivu]

The team has shown it can play. Maybe what's needed is a re-evaluation of the head coach. Team did well last year until Christmas then fell apart. Didn't come back until really late. Same thing is happening this season. Perhaps Carbo didn't learn the lessons he should have last year.

I have been a firm believer for a while now that Carbo is not the right coach for this team.

Even with a better coach, we still need some more players. Enough with the 3rd and 4th liners.

[tokyohabs]

If there aren't a lot of options out there at this time of year, either:

a) make them an offer they can't refuse (not Ryder and Huet; more like Koivu, another experienced player, a prospect plus our draft choice next year - that at least will get noticed)

b ) bide your time, hope that it turns around because it's still early for us too.

Option a anyone?

I firmly think Koivu had his last push last year. He has been great for us, no doubt; but to ask him to still be the first line ctr, the first option, the focal point on O, is bordering on absurd. He's 34? Had cancer? Bad injuries? Give him a chance to reduce his minutes (3rd line?) and, with more energy, maybe be more effective. Or trade him to some team that will.

By the way, does Smoked's no-movement-clause mean he can't even be waived???

Edited December 5, 2007 by tokyohabs

[tokyohabs]

Sorry about two posts in a row, but...

Let's just deal the house for Ovechkin while the dollar is high, hang on to Price, and go from there.

[johnnyhasbeen]

Would you part with the 2 Kost bro's if it meant Ovechkin? I think that is the question because that is the caliper of players we will have to part with in my opinion. Will it be a worth while move? Depends on who we get. It seems easy to ccontimplate trades when you don't have to call and find out who is available at what cost. I am sure all the other Gms are trying to rape us for anyone of worth, and probably some of no worth.

Be carefull Bob, is my message, there are snakes in the grass out there. Please don't over pay for another disappointing UFA.

In Bob I Trust

[KEEP26]

I have been a firm believer for a while now that Carbo is not the right coach for this team.

Even with a better coach, we still need some more players. Enough with the 3rd and 4th liners.

ok i agree with you that carbo got alot to learn..i know most guys dont like ryder, but i dont know how you going to get him going on the 4th line, his one of the only 30th goal scores on the team..Other goal score had bad starts and the coachs wait it out and they are scoring now..Ryder was told in the off season that he had to work on his all around game, which he as improve on..look want bonk as done this year on a different team..Iam not saying i dont like carbo but i think he should learn how to work with players better and how to get a player going without benching them or put 30th goal score on the 4th line, with little ice time and hope there scoring touch well come back. to me dont make sense..so we should trade ryder to a team that can use him or play him on one of the top lines..

[ShortHanded]

If there aren't a lot of options out there at this time of year, either:

a) make them an offer they can't refuse (not Ryder and Huet; more like Koivu, another experienced player, a prospect plus our draft choice next year - that at least will get noticed)

b ) bide your time, hope that it turns around because it's still early for us too.

Option a anyone?

I firmly think Koivu had his last push last year. He has been great for us, no doubt; but to ask him to still be the first line ctr, the first option, the focal point on O, is bordering on absurd. He's 34? Had cancer? Bad injuries? Give him a chance to reduce his minutes (3rd line?) and, with more energy, maybe be more effective. Or trade him to some team that will.

By the way, does Smoked's no-movement-clause mean he can't even be waived???

We can't score enough with Koivu, so we certainly won't be able to score enough without him. I'm up for making a trade, but I think keep Koivu and let him be the second line centre if we get the first line centre we so desire, or let him continue to play on the 1st with a real, solid power forward type winger who can bury all the chances he sets up. It's not fair to say he's not a good first line C. He's the set up guy, his wingers don't finish enough.

[KEEP26]

If there aren't a lot of options out there at this time of year, either:

a) make them an offer they can't refuse (not Ryder and Huet; more like Koivu, another experienced player, a prospect plus our draft choice next year - that at least will get noticed)

b ) bide your time, hope that it turns around because it's still early for us too.

Option a anyone?

I firmly think Koivu had his last push last year. He has been great for us, no doubt; but to ask him to still be the first line ctr, the first option, the focal point on O, is bordering on absurd. He's 34? Had cancer? Bad injuries? Give him a chance to reduce his minutes (3rd line?) and, with more energy, maybe be more effective. Or trade him to some team that will.

By the way, does Smoked's no-movement-clause mean he can't even be waived???

i really think koivu dont agree with the coaches much and his not happy with the way the team is going, i believe he wants to win and he dont believe their on the right road..Koivu wants a cup and he dont think deep down their close to it with this team. i love koivu, and he is all heart but bob got to bring in someone to help him out, i dont think right not we have a lot of first line players, we got alot of great 2nd and 3rd line players, but i really believe we are two players away from being great

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Our current slump boils down to Koivu's personal slump. He has these long slumps annually (except for 2002-03), and the team usually goes in the tank when he does. It's practically a mathematical correlation. You can look it up. This team has lots of complimentary players but only Koivu propels the offence as a whole.

The worrisome thing is that his slump usually occurs after Christmas. This is the earliest he's ever done this, and it raises the question whether his body is breaking down.

But worst-case scenario aside, it suggests overwhelmingly that WHEN this team has its offensive catalyst working effectively, it's a top-10 team. Because if you look at how we perform when Koivu is NOT slumping, the results are excellent. However, Koivu simply can't play that role for more than 2/3 of a season.

Therefore: Bob does indeed need to get another offensive catalyst, perferably a C. Personally, I have no problem with trading Koivu in exchange for a catalyst who DOESN'T break down 1/3 of every season. Or we should trade complimentary parts to get that second catalyst. Personally I can't understand why there is no deal to be made involving Marleau/Ryder + some combo, or Marleau/Koivu, but I raised that before and got laughed out of town.

Bob deserves credit for assembling a pretty good blueline. Hamrlik addresses the longstanding need for a #1A defenceman. BUT this team will not be serious until it solves the need for that second catalyst up front. If and when Koivu snaps out of his funk, we'll suddenly look great again and everyone will be back on the bandwagon, but not me. I'm now convinced we're too dependent on Koivu ever to be successful. This HAS to be addressed.

[Wamsley01]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Our current slump boils down to Koivu's personal slump. He has these long slumps annually (except for 2002-03), and the team usually goes in the tank when he does. It's practically a mathematical correlation. You can look it up. This team has lots of complimentary players but only Koivu propels the offence as a whole.

The worrisome thing is that his slump usually occurs after Christmas. This is the earliest he's ever done this, and it raises the question whether his body is breaking down.

But worst-case scenario aside, it suggests overwhelmingly that WHEN this team has its offensive catalyst working effectively, it's a top-10 team. Because if you look at how we perform when Koivu is NOT slumping, the results are excellent. However, Koivu simply can't play that role for more than 2/3 of a season.

Therefore: Bob does indeed need to get another offensive catalyst, perferably a C. Personally, I have no problem with trading Koivu in exchange for a catalyst who DOESN'T break down 1/3 of every season. Or we should trade complimentary parts to get that second catalyst. Personally I can't understand why there is no deal to be made involving Marleau/Ryder + some combo, or Marleau/Koivu, but I raised that before and got laughed out of town.

Bob deserves credit for assembling a pretty good blueline. Hamrlik addresses the longstanding need for a #1A defenceman. BUT this team will not be serious until it solves the need for that second catalyst up front. If and when Koivu snaps out of his funk, we'll suddenly look great again and everyone will be back on the bandwagon, but not me. I'm now convinced we're too dependent on Koivu ever to be successful. This HAS to be addressed.

I agree with what you are saying in regards to Koivu, but that is just one of the problems that is wiping out this team right now. They are giving up 40+ shots nightly and that is not Koivu's fault. It is a reluctance to work hard and play disciplined hockey that is destroying this team right now. Carbonneau has now had over 100 games to implement his defensive system and the players stubbornly refuse to buy into it. It is time for Gainey to take the players who are not buying in and send them somewhere else. I don't care who it is, Koivu, Kovalev, Higgins etc. If you have a teamwide dedication to a system and players refuse to buy in, then they have no place in the organization.

Now if you are going to argue that it is not the players then Carbo has to either get results now or he has to go. Somewhere along the foodchain here somebody is not doing their part. This team has no identity, well actually it does. Give up 40+ shots and hope for the best. It is sad when other teams have stolen your identity and are now recognized for it more than you.

I support Gainey in his plan. But I expect that if this continues that he will do something. He has a vision for this team, he has to do everything to make sure that those below him share it. If they do not, then Bob needs to go out and acquire those who do.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

The problem is that most fans think that trades are easy to make in the NHL. THey are not. First of all, you have to find a trading partner. Somebody who has somebody they want ot trade. That somebody has to be interesting to BOb, and secondly, Bob has to trade somebody that interests the other team. Let's not forget the whole salary cap system in place. We can't pick up a 7 million$ player and only give up 1 million in salary, we'd bust the cap!

I'm sorry guys, but trading Ryder and Huet will not get the Habs anything.

Ilya Bryzgalov was put on waivers by the Ducks and picked up by the Coyotes for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! What makes Habsfans think that we'll get anything of value (an impact player) for Huet and Ryder? Ryder is a one trick pony, who can't even do his one trick well anymore.

Like someone else mentionned earlier, the only players that will get us a decent player in return are Price, Markov, Komisarek and Higgins...adn Maybe Koivu. THe rest of the team isn'T worth anything more than a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick! WE have enough good players in the farm teams to last us for another decade.

We need an impact player right now, but getting that impact player is not an easy thing!

Edited December 5, 2007 by Habsfan

[Wamsley01]

The problem is that most ans think that trades are easy to make in the NHL. THey are not. First of all, you have to find a trading partner. Somebody who has somebody they want ot trade. That somebody has to be interesting to BOb, and secondly, Bob has to trade somebody that interests the other team.

I'm sorry guys, but trading Ryder and Huet will not get the Habs anything.

Ilya Bryzgalov was put on waivers by the Ducks and picked up by the Coyotes for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! What makes Habsfans thing that we'll get anything of value(and impact player) for Huet and Ryder. Ryder is a one trick pony,who can't even do his one trick well anymore.

Like someone else mentionned earlier, the only players that will get us a decent player in return are Price, Markov, Komisarek and Higgins...adn Maybe Koivu. THe rest of the team isn'T worth anything more than a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick! WE have enough good players in the farm teams to last us for another decade.

We need an impact player right now, but getting that impact player is not an easy thing!

I am not saying it is easy to trade. But I just watched the Detroit Tigers acquire major assets for stud prospects.

Koivu/Kostitsyn

Koivu/Paccioretty

Koivu/Halak

I am not picking on Koivu, but those type of packages can yield great return.

You have to give up something to get something. We are all attached to the prospects, but fact remains 75% of them will never achieve the level we want them to. I am not looking to sell the future, but if Thornton can be traded for Primeau, Stuart and Sturm. Anything can hapen.

[Habsfan]

You have to give up something to get something

I definitely agree with you, but with the exception of Komi, Price, higgins and Markov, I just don't think the Habs have much to offer other teams! At least not much that could get us something of value in return!

[Wamsley01]

I definitely agree with you, but with the exception of Komi, Price, higgins and Markov, I just don't think the Habs have much to offer other teams! At least not much that could get us something of value in return!

you don't think Koivu would bring a good return?

[sbhatt]

you don't think Koivu would bring a good return?

Maybe if he starts playing well again he could...but you'd have to package him with a really good prospect regardless. His inconsistency isn't exactly a secret known only to Habs fans.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Wamsley, I agree that Koivu isn't the whole problem - of course not. It's a team effort. Markov's MIA play is another huge factor too. Nonetheless, I stand by my conclusion that our reliance on Koivu is the single biggest Achilles' Heel of the organization. That is, you could have everyone buying in to Carbo's system, but the team would still struggle through 1/3 of every season because its offensive pivot is in the toilet. Precisely because he *is* the catalyst, his slumps tend to spread outwards to the team as a whole.

And anyone who thinks Koivu has no trade value is out of their gourds. He is Butch Goring waiting to happen - that final missing piece to any playoff contender. Yes, he has a NTC but I can't believe he wouldn't waive it for a legitimate chance to win.

Doesn't have to be Koivu, though. Consider (gulp!) Higgins. Now I love the guy and he obviously has room to grow. However, he's thus far shown disturbingly few signs of becoming anything more than a 30-goal, 50-60 point man - a Long Island version of JP Dumont - and he certainly has given no indication that he can become that offensive catalyst the team desperately needs. While simply calling to 'trade Higgins' reeks of a panic, it should not be unthinkable IF it can bring back that catalyst we need. In my books, only Price and Komisarek are irreplaceable: Price because he's a potential franchise player, and Komi because bruising shut-down defencemen are precious commodities. 60-point players, not so much.

[Habitforming]

Wamsley, I agree that Koivu isn't the whole problem - of course not. It's a team effort. Markov's MIA play is another huge factor too. Nonetheless, I stand by my conclusion that our reliance on Koivu is the single biggest Achilles' Heel of the organization. That is, you could have everyone buying in to Carbo's system, but the team would still struggle through 1/3 of every season because its offensive pivot is in the toilet. Precisely because he *is* the catalyst, his slumps tend to spread outwards to the team as a whole.

And anyone who thinks Koivu has no trade value is out of their gourds. He is Butch Goring waiting to happen - that final missing piece to any playoff contender. Yes, he has a NTC but I can't believe he wouldn't waive it for a legitimate chance to win.

Doesn't have to be Koivu, though. Consider (gulp!) Higgins. Now I love the guy and he obviously has room to grow. However, he's thus far shown disturbingly few signs of becoming anything more than a 30-goal, 50-60 point man - a Long Island version of JP Dumont - and he certainly has given no indication that he can become that offensive catalyst the team desperately needs. While simply calling to 'trade Higgins' reeks of a panic, it should not be unthinkable IF it can bring back that catalyst we need. In my books, only Price and Komisarek are irreplaceable: Price because he's a potential franchise player, and Komi because bruising shut-down defencemen are precious commodities. 60-point players, not so much.

I agree with your logic. Except I would add Markov, Hammer and 4- 6 prospects to the list of untouchables.

[Wamsley01]

Wamsley, I agree that Koivu isn't the whole problem - of course not. It's a team effort. Markov's MIA play is another huge factor too. Nonetheless, I stand by my conclusion that our reliance on Koivu is the single biggest Achilles' Heel of the organization. That is, you could have everyone buying in to Carbo's system, but the team would still struggle through 1/3 of every season because its offensive pivot is in the toilet. Precisely because he *is* the catalyst, his slumps tend to spread outwards to the team as a whole.

And anyone who thinks Koivu has no trade value is out of their gourds. He is Butch Goring waiting to happen - that final missing piece to any playoff contender. Yes, he has a NTC but I can't believe he wouldn't waive it for a legitimate chance to win.

Doesn't have to be Koivu, though. Consider (gulp!) Higgins. Now I love the guy and he obviously has room to grow. However, he's thus far shown disturbingly few signs of becoming anything more than a 30-goal, 50-60 point man - a Long Island version of JP Dumont - and he certainly has given no indication that he can become that offensive catalyst the team desperately needs. While simply calling to 'trade Higgins' reeks of a panic, it should not be unthinkable IF it can bring back that catalyst we need. In my books, only Price and Komisarek are irreplaceable: Price because he's a potential franchise player, and Komi because bruising shut-down defencemen are precious commodities. 60-point players, not so much.

It all comes down to home team fanbases overrating their own players. If you offered Leaf fans Koivu and Plekanec for Sundin they would call you crazy, if you told the habs fans of the same deal they would call you crazy (that is to much for a 37 year old). habs fans are still gun shy from the Roy/Leclair/Desjardin blunders. So they fear trading anybody of consequence away.

Gainey has proven pretty adept at the trade table, so I don't understand the fear. He is not Rejean Houle. I agree that the only untouchable on the team is Price. Nobody else has shown the type of potential he has in his 2 years. Komisarek would be hard to deal as well because they have dealt with the growing pains and he is just about to enter his prime years.

Everybody is screaming for heads, they are fed up with mediocrity yet they don't want to do anything dramatic. So if all the players we have are going to lead us to greatness then just sit back, crack a cold one and enjoy. If this team is the same as the last 10 years then endorse any deal. It cannot be both.

If everybody bought into Carbo's system the impact of Koivu's slumps would be less dramatic because great goaltending combined with strong defense means you would contend in every game. It might save the streaks from being catastrophic.

Koivu has lead this team as far as it is going to go. This team needs to A. acquire a front line scorer or B. be patient that the kiddie corps will evolve into a Cup contender and allow Saku to be a complimentary cog. I am not trashing Saku, I am not questioning his leadership, but if he was as good as some people think he is....we would not have won 3 post season series in 12 years.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Wamsley01

[johnnyhasbeen]

you don't think Koivu would bring a good return?

Can't say I'd give up an elite scorer (Ovechkin), a top line centre (Vinny) or an all-star d-man for him. Maybe if you threw in one of the young american d-men, top prospect forward from the Dogs and a goalie.... oh wait, and toss in that Pleks kid and we have a deal. B)

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Maybe the team needs a motivational speech