Keep the Faith

[Wamsley01]

I am just as frustrated as the rest of you in here, but let's drop the season is over nonsense.

This team was hard to read before the season and in order to make the leap to the next level alot was expected from the youth.

Well what has the youth delivered?

Plekanec - he has raised his level slightly but still seems to score in bunches. 7 of his 20 points have come in 2 games. He has been scoreless in 16 of 27 games. You can also make an argument that his slight upgrade in production is due to Kovalev's resurgence.

Higgins - Higgins works hard virtually every shift, but his production is almost identical to last season.

Kostitsyn - Has shown flashes of great potential, but his production is down from last season.

Latendresse - After a brutal start has raised his level in the last week, but he projects out about the same as last season.

Komisarek - Now in his 5th year has finally begun to blossom and has been great on the backend.

Price - After a hot start has shown his age in the last 2 games. This kid is ready to play in the NHL, but not ready to put a team on his back yet.

Chipchura - Learning in leaps and bounds, but still to young to take over this team.

So the youth has not reached the next level yet. That is not a shock. When you build half your team around youth be prepared for some inconsistency. Some nights the future looks bright, some nights it looks like another 10 years of heartbreak. This team's veteran core has failed to deliver the goods as well so far. Koivu, Ryder, Huet, Smolinski, Bouillion have all played below their previous standards. How many have raised or matched their previous level? Hamrlik? Kovalev? Dandenault?

The coaching staff has to take some responsibility as well. How a staff made up of hardworking, defensively responsible forwards cannot teach discipline and work ethic to this bunch is beyond me. When I saw that staff before last season I thought at worst the Habs would be a bitch to play and if they could get some offense they would be able to contend in the upper echelon of the East. But none of that materialized. Instead we watch a team that does not work hard, blows leads late and gets badly outshot every night. Hardly what you would expect from a management staff that houses 9 Selke trophies. With all this being said the Habs still find themselves in a playoff position.

This is the new NHL people. Look at the Eastern Conference.

Ottawa - Starts the season 15-2 and then loses 8 of 9

Carolina - After a 13-5-3 start they just came off a 2-5 stretch that included getting blasted 8-1 by Buffalo

Buffalo - Staggered off to a slow start but have reeled off wins in 6 of their last 7

Toronto - Started so slowly that the media fired half the staff but have now won 3 in a row and are still in the mix

NY Rangers - After a brutal October the Rangers picked up 10 wins and points in 11 of 13 in November

New Jersey - People were writing off Martin Brodeur 2 weeks ago and now the Devils have reeled of 7 straight

Atlanta - Started the season 0-6 then reeled off 10 wins in 13 games

and so on, and so on, and so on.

This is Bettman's new NHL. He added a 3rd point and has essentially created group mediocrity.

We all knew that this team was not a finished product, but a hot start AGAIN turned everybody's brain to mush. This team needs everything to go right to ascend to a top 5 team and barely anything has in the first 27 games. But they are not buried, they are still right in the thick of things. I know it is impossible to seperate the past from the present, but it seems that alot of the heat is for things they have done last year and the year before (I am guilty of this as anybody else on this board).

This team is going to continue to struggle until Higgins, Komisarek, Chipchura, Price etc decide to change the culture of this team.

Koivu and Kovalev need to be usurped for this team to hit the next level. This is not about them anymore, they have failed to lead this team anywhere significant. If the young guns never hit their potential then enjoy what you have been watching, because we will be stuck in this cycle for another 10 years.

Nothing has changed in the last week. This team is flawed, but so is the rest of the Eastern Conference.

[Habsfan]

Nice post, but it's at these times that i freak out!!!

had our boys played well, i'd say that things could look better, but they've played like shit for the past two weeks.

- No second effort.

- They give up the blue line way too fast(when the other team tris to enter our zone)

- With Carbo, Muller and Jarvis, you'd think we would be better on face-offs, but we're not.

- 30th in the league in goals scored 5 on 5...NOW THAT has got me really worried!

- Lack of Size and grit up front.

- Markov hasn't been himself for the past 2 weeks...that's not a good thing!

- With the exception fo the Kovalev line, our boys up front have no imagination when it comes to scoring, none whatsoever!

[Wamsley01]

Nice post, but it's at these times that i freak out!!!

had our boys played well, i'd say that things could look better, but they've played like shit for the past two weeks.

- No second effort.

- They give up the blue line way too fast(when the other team tris to enter our zone)

- With Carbo, Muller and Jarvis, you'd think we would be better on face-offs, but we're not.

- 30th in the league in goals scored 5 on 5...NOW THAT has got me really worried!

- Lack of Size and grit up front.

- Markov hasn't been himself for the past 2 weeks...that's not a good thing!

- With the exception fo the Kovalev line, our boys up front have no imagination when it comes to scoring, none whatsoever!

Believe me I am frustrated. But as much as this team has shit the bed for months at a time the last 3-4 years they have also instantly turned it around and ripped of long winning streaks. So considering the rest of the league has been suffering the same inconsistency I am now prepared for a roller coaster ride season.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I agree with your post.

There is time to get things right. We and everyone else in our division is a couple of games out of first and a couple of games out of last.

[newf]

I am just as frustrated as the rest of you in here, but let's drop the season is over nonsense.

This team was hard to read before the season and in order to make the leap to the next level alot was expected from the youth.

Well what has the youth delivered?

Plekanec - he has raised his level slightly but still seems to score in bunches. 7 of his 20 points have come in 2 games. He has been scoreless in 16 of 27 games. You can also make an argument that his slight upgrade in production is due to Kovalev's resurgence.

Higgins - Higgins works hard virtually every shift, but his production is almost identical to last season.

Kostitsyn - Has shown flashes of great potential, but his production is down from last season.

Latendresse - After a brutal start has raised his level in the last week, but he projects out about the same as last season.

Komisarek - Now in his 5th year has finally begun to blossom and has been great on the backend.

Price - After a hot start has shown his age in the last 2 games. This kid is ready to play in the NHL, but not ready to put a team on his back yet.

Chipchura - Learning in leaps and bounds, but still to young to take over this team.

So the youth has not reached the next level yet. That is not a shock. When you build half your team around youth be prepared for some inconsistency. Some nights the future looks bright, some nights it looks like another 10 years of heartbreak. This team's veteran core has failed to deliver the goods as well so far. Koivu, Ryder, Huet, Smolinski, Bouillion have all played below their previous standards. How many have raised or matched their previous level? Hamrlik? Kovalev? Dandenault?

The coaching staff has to take some responsibility as well. How a staff made up of hardworking, defensively responsible forwards cannot teach discipline and work ethic to this bunch is beyond me. When I saw that staff before last season I thought at worst the Habs would be a bitch to play and if they could get some offense they would be able to contend in the upper echelon of the East. But none of that materialized. Instead we watch a team that does not work hard, blows leads late and gets badly outshot every night. Hardly what you would expect from a management staff that houses 9 Selke trophies. With all this being said the Habs still find themselves in a playoff position.

This is the new NHL people. Look at the Eastern Conference.

Ottawa - Starts the season 15-2 and then loses 8 of 9

Carolina - After a 13-5-3 start they just came off a 2-5 stretch that included getting blasted 8-1 by Buffalo

Buffalo - Staggered off to a slow start but have reeled off wins in 6 of their last 7

Toronto - Started so slowly that the media fired half the staff but have now won 3 in a row and are still in the mix

NY Rangers - After a brutal October the Rangers picked up 10 wins and points in 11 of 13 in November

New Jersey - People were writing off Martin Brodeur 2 weeks ago and now the Devils have reeled of 7 straight

Atlanta - Started the season 0-6 then reeled off 10 wins in 13 games

and so on, and so on, and so on.

This is Bettman's new NHL. He added a 3rd point and has essentially created group mediocrity.

We all knew that this team was not a finished product, but a hot start AGAIN turned everybody's brain to mush. This team needs everything to go right to ascend to a top 5 team and barely anything has in the first 27 games. But they are not buried, they are still right in the thick of things. I know it is impossible to seperate the past from the present, but it seems that alot of the heat is for things they have done last year and the year before (I am guilty of this as anybody else on this board).

This team is going to continue to struggle until Higgins, Komisarek, Chipchura, Price etc decide to change the culture of this team.

Koivu and Kovalev need to be usurped for this team to hit the next level. This is not about them anymore, they have failed to lead this team anywhere significant. If the young guns never hit their potential then enjoy what you have been watching, because we will be stuck in this cycle for another 10 years.

Nothing has changed in the last week. This team is flawed, but so is the rest of the Eastern Conference.

i always find your posts very thoughtful and genuine.. also i usually agree with you 100% of the time. Good job Sir!

you should write your own blog or something B)

Edited December 5, 2007 by newf

[BTH]

This team is no fun to watch right now. But someday we will be. It just takes some patience.

There are plenty of internal solutions available, I'm not expecting us to keep this slump going until March. Let's wait and see how we start doing now that we finally have the roster we should have had since the beginning of the year (with O'Byrne and Lapierre).

[Wamsley01]

i always find your posts very thoughtful and genuine.. also i usually agree with you 100% of the time. Good job Sir!

you should write your own blog or something B)

Thanks. I always appreciate the kind words.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Wamsley01

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

As usual, Wamsley, you're on the mark. (In defence of the organization, I seem to recall Gainey pretty much saying that this was a bubble team going into the season - 'we're still in that pack of 6 or 7 teams' was his phrasing I believe - so I doubt Bob is as traumatized as we are).

I guess what bothers me is the stalled performance of the young guns that you ably describe. True, it can't be considered surprising. But we really need someone to do the same job as Koivu, to become, as I keep saying, a bona fide offensive catalyst. And so far none of our young guys have shown even flashes of evolving into anything more than 60-point NHL players: great 2nd liners, possibly pretty good 1st liners, but fundamentally complementary players. (Higgins has me the most disappointed in this respect.)

So 'keep the faith' yeah, but waiting for the young talent may be too much like waiting for Godot. I believe that we have to go outside the organization to acquire that offensive pivot/leader. Either a UFA signing or a blockbuster trade will be needed before this organization really becomes a contender.

[Habsfan]

Higgins has me the most disappointed in this respect.)

I think too many fans thought that Higgins was going to be the saviour. I never thought Higgins could score 40 goals in one season, yet many fans seem to think that he's a 40 goal scorer.

Higgins was a centre as a junior player, now he plays on the wing.

I always expected him to be a 25-30 goal a year guy(60 to 65 points per season), who could create some plays and was solid defensively. Anything more than that would be asking too much of him!

[newf]

I think too many fans thought that Higgins was going to be the saviour. I never thought Higgins could score 40 goals in one season, yet many fans seem to think that he's a 40 goal scorer.

Higgins was a centre as a junior player, now he plays on the wing.

I always expected him to be a 25-30 goal a year guy(60 to 65 points per season), who could create some plays and was solid defensively. Anything more than that would be asking too much of him!

I can see your viewpoint... I think Higgins can go other either way.. being the player you described or a 35-40 goal scorer.

he wears an "A" on his jersey and perhaps the majority will disagree with my next statement but.... I just don't think he is ready for the "A" right now... I see what Montreal is doing by giving him an "A", showing him the organization believes in him and giving him some assurance of his role within the team.... but I think the timing of it was wrong... Komisarek should have gotten it. ..When I see Higgins in interviews he seems like he is trying too hard to play the role of an assistant captain...but just not feeling it lol... but im still a fan of his... jus disagree with the "A" right now.

Edited December 5, 2007 by newf

[JMMR]

Higgins said he was a 40 40 man before the season started or at least it was his goal to become one. I hope he has it in him I know he has the heart but I dont think he has the skills.

[Habsfan]

Higgins said he was a 40 40 man before the season started or at least it was his goal to become one. I hope he has it in him I know he has the heart but I dont think he has the skills.

Did he really say that?? Wow, i'm surprised. He put the Bar up high...way up high!! Maybe a little too high! Koivu has never scored 80 points in a season.

I still thikn Higgins will be more of a 25-30 goal guy with 60 to 70 points.

[Wamsley01]

Did he really say that?? Wow, i'm surprised. He put the Bar up high...way up high!! Maybe a little too high! Koivu has never scored 80 points in a season.

I still thikn Higgins will be more of a 25-30 goal guy with 60 to 70 points.

Higgins was on pace for 35 goals last year. He had tons of injuries and played the last quarter of the season with a broken collarbone.

And everybody thinks this guy can't pot 40 all of a sudden? Jesus he is 24 years old and the terrible season he is suffering through has put him on pace for 33??

He already has a 22 and a 23 goal season on his resume in his first 2 seasons. If his ceiling is 25-30 you might as well continue the pity party, cause the Habs are screwed.

[smon]

I realize that, but Higgins point total is pretty low for a guy who plays on the first line every night.

It's not that he isn't a good player, or that he's suffering a "terrible" season, but rather that he isn't going to become some kind of offensive superstar. He's got the desire, says the right things, but I don't see it on the scoresheet.

I think a lot of people forget that he was drafted as more of a two way forward, and his production came as a surprise to many people. He's definitely an interesting player in that he's quite reliable defensively and also has a sniper's hands. However, he hasn't yet shown that he can break the 80point mark - I was hoping this year would be the year, but aside from 33 goals, he's on pace for 20-odd assists.

So don't get me wrong here, I'm still a big fan of Higgins and he's easily the best young goal scorer the team has, but I don't think he's the second coming of Guy Lafleur.

[Habsfan]

Higgins was on pace for 35 goals last year. He had tons of injuries and played the last quarter of the season with a broken collarbone.

And everybody thinks this guy can't pot 40 all of a sudden? Jesus he is 24 years old and the terrible season he is suffering through has put him on pace for 33??

He already has a 22 and a 23 goal season on his resume in his first 2 seasons. If his ceiling is 25-30 you might as well continue the pity party, cause the Habs are screwed.

Fine, he might very well score 35 goals, But I don't think he'll become a bonafide 40 goal scorer in this league. I hope I'm wrong about him...I really do!

[smon]

To a greater extent, Kostitsyn's production is worrisome - he's getting the minutes now, so he has to produce at least 20 goals this year.

Latendresse is a power forward, and those are notoriously hard to develop, but within a couple of years when he finally gets all his game together he'll be a force.

Chipchura will not really take over the team, but I think he will be a good checking line centre with some offensive capability.

[simonus]

current pace:

33g, 18a

[saskhab]

40 goal scorers are hard to predict. I never thought Gionta would ever be a 50 goal man, for instance. It's about going to the right spots and having the right linemates.

[Wamsley01]

I realize that, but Higgins point total is pretty low for a guy who plays on the first line every night.

It's not that he isn't a good player, or that he's suffering a "terrible" season, but rather that he isn't going to become some kind of offensive superstar. He's got the desire, says the right things, but I don't see it on the scoresheet.

I think a lot of people forget that he was drafted as more of a two way forward, and his production came as a surprise to many people. He's definitely an interesting player in that he's quite reliable defensively and also has a sniper's hands. However, he hasn't yet shown that he can break the 80point mark - I was hoping this year would be the year, but aside from 33 goals, he's on pace for 20-odd assists.

So don't get me wrong here, I'm still a big fan of Higgins and he's easily the best young goal scorer the team has, but I don't think he's the second coming of Guy Lafleur.

He may never score 80 points, but 40 goals is within his reach. The guy is in his 3rd NHL season. 3rd!!

Bertuzzi didn't break 30 goals until he was 27. I will not limit this guy's upside after 2 full seasons.

He is banging on the door of becoming a 30 goal scorer at 24, 50 is not out of reach if he has a dream season.

I expect him in his prime to produce between 35-40 goals regularly.

As far as first line icetime, he is not exactly playing with a top 10 centre. With an elite centre he could explode.

But the Habs don't have one, so that is a pipedream.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

I never thought Gionta would ever be a 50 goal man, for instance.

Gionta has had ONE 48 goal season. The next best he's had is 25 goals (last year) and then its 21 goals(4 years ago)

Just because he had that amazing year 2 years ago, it doesn't make him a 50 goal scorer. I still don'T consider hiim a 40 goal scorer....he's only had one 40 goal year. This year, he's on pace to score 27.

For me, a real 40 gaol scorer is Ilya Kovalchuk(2 - 40 goal seasons and 1 - 50 goal season. let's not forget that he's on pace to score 70 this year)

Alex Ovechkin is a bonafide 45-50 goal scorer. 2 45 goal season and is on pace to score 61 this year.

[Habsfan]

He is banging on the door of becoming a 30 goal scorer at 24, 50 is not out of reach if he has a dream season.

I expect him in his prime to produce between 35-40 goals regularly.

He might, but he'll need a really good centre to feed him nice passes. I still think Higgins lacks a bit of that finishing touch around the net. That's why i doubt he'll score 50 in one year. he might score 35-40, but not 50!

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Keep the faith eh? I guess I do have faith but I'm getting tired of Carbonneau employing a firewagon style against the Detroit's and Ottawa's of the NHL. Defence was the formula that got us here and also the ingredient that gives success. When we hunker down, we usually suffocate the enemy. Firewagon hockey ain't going to work unless we get a major impact forward.

So please Carbo, do or do not. Line switching, strategic methods and whatever else you need to employ...please: DO OR DO NOT!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Higgins is a good young player and may well score 40 goals somewhere down the line. I can see him landing on the All Star team once or twice. But the player I've seen still is way closer to JP Dumont: a fine complementary player, not the catalyst to your offence. Which is just to say he shouldn't be considered untradeable if he's the element that can get us back a genuine offensive leader.

That's the trouble. All we seem to be drafting are these quality complementary players. But unless we acquire one or two bona fide offensive catalysts, we'll remain a bubble team ad infinitum. It's frustrating.

[Wamsley01]

Higgins is a good young player and may well score 40 goals somewhere down the line. I can see him landing on the All Star team once or twice. But the player I've seen still is way closer to JP Dumont: a fine complementary player, not the catalyst to your offence. Which is just to say he shouldn't be considered untradeable if he's the element that can get us back a genuine offensive leader.

That's the trouble. All we seem to be drafting are these quality complementary players. But unless we acquire one or two bona fide offensive catalysts, we'll remain a bubble team ad infinitum. It's frustrating.

Hey CC, you think that Dumont is as physical as Higgins? or that he battles on the boards in the same manner?

I can understand the numbers comparison, but I never saw the 2 as similar players. Am I wrong?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hey CC, you think that Dumont is as physical as Higgins? or that he battles on the boards in the same manner?

I can understand the numbers comparison, but I never saw the 2 as similar players. Am I wrong?

No, no, don't read too much into the parallel - I mean that Higgins thus far strikes me as a 60-point complementary player, and in that specific sense like Dumont, that's all. Obviously he brings all kinds of great qualities that Dumont probably doesn't. (In fact, that's why he might be viable trade bait in a package for a serious offensive leader. Every team would love to have him). My point is simply that he's probably not the answer, not the key missing ingredient that's haunting our entire rebuilding effort. In that sense he's tradeable.