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[tokyohabs]

A guy like Shane Doan. not the most talented, but can you imagine him 'accepting' a lesser effort from a teammate?

Plus the occasional contribution offensively, doesn't hurt you defensively. A rough-and-tumble, mean mo-fo to 'whip the boys up' when they start floating.

A guy like, errm...Carbo.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Someone came up with the analogy of square pegs going into round holes. Gainey has put together a team with speed (a lot of it) and some pretty good offensive flair. Do we see any of that? Ever? No, because Carbo is a defensive coach and specialist. He seems to prefer getting on Kovalev's back for not backchecking to perfection rather than encouraging him to dangle in the offensive zone.

The Kostitsyn twins (Basil! TWINS!) drip with talent and yet they've forced to play something akin to a checking role. We get to the attacking blue line and it's pretty much standard operating procedure to dump the puck (lose control of the play) and try to get in their with our one-man forecheck to win it back. Shock upon shock, we're not overly successful. Carbo is completely stumped by the trap and has had zero inspiration on how to beat it. We have the speed and speed kills. He keeps saying in the media that the team needs to use the speed, but if all he wants these skaters to do is chase after dumped pucks, I just don't see how the team will be successful.

On defense, we're so passive it's coma-like. I have never, in my life, seen a team give up the blueline so easily. Rivet, when he was traded, loved the fact that the Sharks stand the blueline and force something to happen. You know how we have to dump and chase the puck? The opponents don't and THAT is the number one reason this team struggles. They're allowed to gain the blueline WITH control and then they start the cycle. When you're chasing you opponents for 15 or 20 seconds on a controlled cycle, it's no surprise you get tired. People wonder why we get pinned deep in the zone? It's because we allow the opposition to control the puck.

Then, when the players get tired, someone gets open in the slot. Our defensive zone coverage is nowhere NEAR as bad as some might indicate. It's just that, when you're chasing chasing all the time you get tired, and a slick and smart opposing forward will take advantage of that, slip the coverage for a split second, and boom, puck's in the net.

Then all this talk about the captain comes into play and I just don't get it. What can Koivu do to motivate his players to play better? He doesn't believe in the system, that much is obvious - he knows it isn't working. So he goes out on the ice, does what he can, and that's it. Yes, yes, for you Koivu haters it's not enough that he doesn't explode in the dressing room every second game or guarantee a win or blah blah. The captain yelling to motivate his team is not, and I repeat NOT, going to help this team. What is is a system that complements the players.

We have a lot of talent on the ice but it's just not being used properly. It's kind of embarrassing, actually, watching this team play. The Canadiens play a very simple, AHL level, defensive game rather than an attacking, speed-based, aggressive style.

Ask yourselves this question: why did Montreal do SO well to start the season and then fade? Was it really work ethic etc? Or was it the opposition adjusting to Montreal's unchanging style? And now the team has lost confidence and Carbo is at wits end trying to re-establish it. And he won't. Unless he does something drastic. Line combos work for a few shifts, but what really needs to be done is adjusting his coaching style to accomodate what he HAS and not what he wishes he could have.

Meh, just my opinion.

Yes, yes, yes.

I have been saying this for a while now (not near as well as you though). Claude had a very similar problem too.

[Colin]

But it was Carbo's system that the team bought into at the beginning of the year that worked so well, and you point that out. The problem isn't the system it is the players lost confidence in the system and therefore their lack of execution. The system didn't break in my opinion.

I don't really agree with this statement. It seems to me that they were still playing well when they started to lose. And as I saw it, it was a direct result of the other team adjusting to the Canadiens' style of play. Montreal started the season using one chess gambit. It's now been countered. Either we get our rook's into better position, or we're setting ourselves up for a big loss by playing the same style of game repeatedly.

Yes, confidence was lost, but I think that was after a few losses when they felt they were really playing well. That's a common thing: you play really well and lose a few times and you start to wonder what's going on. This is a fragile bunch and it didn't take much to knock them off.

[BTH]

Colin, yes our team has speed and some skilled players but they were built to be a defensive team. The majority of our players are two-way players and even the offensive guys work well in a defensive system (besides, even for defensive teams like Minnesota and Vancouver, a couple of offensive threats is still a MUST - even Calgary went out and got Tanguay). The reason why people think we have an offensive team is because we play our best when we're skating... but so do 29 other teams. It is possible to be a defensive team that has offensive talent - and it's actually a lot easier for our team to fit that blueprint than to be an offensive team that has defensive talent. Gainey is building us after Vancouver's blueprint and Carbo is coaching them that way. It's the players who want to be like Buffalo.

[Easy Ryder]

Still the fact, we need help to make the playoffs, not to be one point short but enough

to go an a winning streak and out some distance between us and the low bottom 8 team group.

I definetely think that a major move from Bob would give a boost to the veteran core,

if it means trading one our past 1 st round pick(Fisher) with some sleepers(Ryder) for a

Rob Blake that would make our team a killer at defense with a real top four i would go for it.

+ He has won some cups, has leadership and a terrific shot, still able to hit like a train.

With Hammer he would be perfect.

Sure it doesn't help us a t forward but it would improve is a lot as a team.

[Cataclaw]

Cataclaw's logic:

- Team is mostly youngsters

- The youngsters are improving

- Team is improving

- If we're 5th in east at the moment, by second half of the season we'll be 4th, if kids keep improving.

[Neech]

Cataclaw's logic:

- Team is mostly youngsters

- The youngsters are improving

- Team is improving

- If we're 5th in east at the moment, by second half of the season we'll be 4th, if kids keep improving.

Except players don't improve in a linear fashion. And it doesn't look like the team is improving at the moment.

[Cataclaw]

Except players don't improve in a linear fashion. And it doesn't look like the team is improving at the moment.

Linear, perhaps not, but averaged out over a season, definitely.

Have a little faith guys.

[alexstream]

Except players don't improve in a linear fashion. And it doesn't look like the team is improving at the moment.

Kosty bros are improving.

Ryder can't be worse.

Latendresse is improving.

----------------------

Anyhow, Re: Blaming Carbo.

I don't buy it.

Under Michel Therrien, with the WORST COACH we've had in years, we achieved to do BIG things... Because we had ONE WINNER in the lineup. I named : Doug Gilmour.

If we can get anyone with such a winner attitude in the locker room, it would tremendously improve us. And IMO, now is a critical time. We need an old wolf to teach the younger wolves (Higgins and Komi) what it is to have a winning attitude ... Koivu could have had it, had he not played on losing teams for a decade...

If we do get such an old wolf... and if it doesn't bring more HEART in the team's play... then, you're free to hang Carbo, high and short.

Before then, though, give the man credit for what he can do without "real locker room leadership".

I don't think having a guy like Hartley would change anything in a "loser locker room". However, would we have a coaching change, since Burns will not likely coach ever again, I would vote for Hartley.

[Easy Ryder]

So, switching coaches or veteran players candidates??

Switching coaches we've done that too much in the last ten years. But if i had a choice i would go with Jacques Demers for heart and desire to win but isn't he too old for that?? Hartley is a good man, he as a team concept similar to Carbo with 4 line rolling wich would be a lateral move. Pat Burns ?...

Not many teams are out of the dance and won't trade their veteran at mid season.

Besides Blake who is likely to be retire but would want to win a cup before doing so.

If he has a no trade clause he would say no to MTL i am pretty sure, and nobody here

close to him to convince him. Who on their right mind would choose this team to end his

career??

[alexstream]

So, switching coaches or veteran players candidates??

Switching coaches we've done that too much in the last ten years. But if i had a choice i would go with Jacques Demers for heart and desire to win but isn't he too old for that?? Hartley is a good man, he as a team concept similar to Carbo with 4 line rolling wich would be a lateral move. Pat Burns ?...

Not many teams are out of the dance and won't trade their veteran at mid season.

Besides Blake who is likely to be retire but would want to win a cup before doing so.

If he has a no trade clause he would say no to MTL i am pretty sure, and nobody here

close to him to convince him. Who on their right mind would choose this team to end his

career??

well maybe not "old wolf" as in "retiring soon"...

But I'm thinking Sakic, Richards, Iginla, Smyth... in the "elite" category.

I'm thinking Doan, Arnott, Shanny, etc in the "star" category.

in other word, another "young" veteran to support Kovalev when it comes to talk about "when I played for Keenan in 1994... etc"

[Neech]

Linear, perhaps not, but averaged out over a season, definitely.

Have a little faith guys.

Yeah, our young guys should be playing better at the end of the season. I mainly disagree that we should be 4th in the second half seeing that now we're 5th. That doesn't take into account all the other teams that are improving or are flat out more talented than us but are behind us in the standings. I think we'll do well to finish with a playoff spot, but that we'll get there.

[thib46]

So, switching coaches or veteran players candidates??

Switching coaches we've done that too much in the last ten years. But if i had a choice i would go with Jacques Demers for heart and desire to win but isn't he too old for that?? Hartley is a good man, he as a team concept similar to Carbo with 4 line rolling wich would be a lateral move. Pat Burns ?...

Not many teams are out of the dance and won't trade their veteran at mid season.

Besides Blake who is likely to be retire but would want to win a cup before doing so.

If he has a no trade clause he would say no to MTL i am pretty sure, and nobody here

close to him to convince him. Who on their right mind would choose this team to end his

career??

The coach is not going anywhere. Gainey, like it or not is following his plan and if it means the team's progress is slow and the fans and the media reporters are unhappy, too bad. I do not see a major trade in the near future.

[tokyohabs]

It feels like the management has accepted the 'new NHL' style before a lot of fans - me included. Teams are crap then draft high; nurture their youngsters; add a couple of vets last-minute to help the playoff push; win big; then fall again into mediocrity.

I wonder if Bovin will have some leniency if we don't make the playoffs but are littered with improving youngsters, the team is playing hard for Carbo, and we are well under the cap.

This year the springboard for next year? That said, the best learning for the younger players has to be the pressure of the playoff experience, especially for a couple of rounds. The more I think of it though, the more I suspect that management will be more than content with a playoff appearance, looking forward to next year when the younger players can really challenge the older players for spots, and we can be nicely under the cap to make a strong run at a couple of vets down the stretch, or maybe a bigger UFA signing.

We need a stud scoring winger and a slick #1 centre; there is no way we have enough to trade for both those parts.

[ShortHanded]

It feels like the management has accepted the 'new NHL' style before a lot of fans - me included. Teams are crap then draft high; nurture their youngsters; add a couple of vets last-minute to help the playoff push; win big; then fall again into mediocrity.

I wonder if Bovin will have some leniency if we don't make the playoffs but are littered with improving youngsters, the team is playing hard for Carbo, and we are well under the cap.

This year the springboard for next year? That said, the best learning for the younger players has to be the pressure of the playoff experience, especially for a couple of rounds. The more I think of it though, the more I suspect that management will be more than content with a playoff appearance, looking forward to next year when the younger players can really challenge the older players for spots, and we can be nicely under the cap to make a strong run at a couple of vets down the stretch, or maybe a bigger UFA signing.

We need a stud scoring winger and a slick #1 centre; there is no way we have enough to trade for both those parts.

I'm not even sure we have enough to trade for one of these parts. sigh.

[JLP]

well-argued Colin! I agree with most of what you wrote, this year I've been able to watch more Habs games, and that has made me agree even more.