If we're on the edge of the playoffs at season's end again...

[tokyohabs]

Well?

If we're right on the 7-8-9-10 seed area before the deadline this year, would you dump the vets for younger talent to stronger contenders?

I'm thinking Koivu, Kovalev, Huet. Possibly Begin and Tom K.

Obviously Smoked and Ryder will be gone by the start of next year, Ryder sooner.

Just a question.

[JMMR]

Well no matter where they are I would for sure consider trading Huet Begin or Kosto.

Trading Koivu or Kovalev would be tough because who knows who the Habs will be able to get in the offseason.

[BTH]

I think the only move Gainey would do is Ryder for a Kostopoulos clone or a pick. A blockbuster involving a #1 centre would be cool but Gainey has been trying for a long time and still hasn't got one. It doesn't look like he'll ever get one via trade.

[haber]

If we want to get a good centre we can pick up a guy like mike richards on phily.

I've had my eye on Paul Stastny for a while. I'd be so happy if we could pick him up.

But those are dream trades for us, oh well.

[BTH]

If we want to get a good centre we can pick up a guy like mike richards on phily.

I've had my eye on Paul Stastny for a while. I'd be so happy if we could pick him up.

But those are dream trades for us, oh well.

Both those guys are never moving. Atleast the Marleau trade seems to make sense. I have a feeling that someday within the next year or two we will have acquired Marleau, these year-long rumours tend to always be true in the end.

[johnnyhasbeen]

I truely believe the question is moot as we will be in by a stride.

[Neech]

No, we won't make a firesale if we're right in the hunt, everyone in the organization has said that the goal is to make the playoffs this year. If we're out of contention we might see a firesale.

I don't see why we'd trade Kosto, it seems like Gainey handpicked him and he's doing a decent job. I doubt that we'd trade Koivu or Kovalev, but a trade involving one of those two may be the kind that will actually change the makeup of this team enough to make it a contender. At this point, Koivu is not playing nearly up to par, but he's the captain heart of the team yada yada yada.

A trade involving Huet is likely, but it's also likely that we'll keep him like Souray. I think he'll definitely test the free-agent waters, and only if he doesn't find anything better then he'll be back.

[johnnyhasbeen]

Both those guys are never moving. Atleast the Marleau trade seems to make sense. I have a feeling that someday within the next year or two we will have acquired Marleau, these year-long rumours tend to always be true in the end.

The Vinnie rumour has been around longer....

[BTH]

The Vinnie rumour has been around longer....

But there was never any basis to the Vinnie rumour, Feaster even vowed that he would never trade him under any circumstance. But Marleau is a great player who's struggling, isn't earning his paycheque and is supposedly feuding with his teammates now. No, he's not the perfect player, but the perfect players are not going to be traded, so a struggling 1st line C is as good as we're going to get (/could possibly get).

[kenadian]

Dump the coach(ing), enough of the defence 1st.....let's go out and get a coach(ing) who's ALL about offense.

This way if we lose at least we'll put a few puck in the net................old time hockey 7-6 scores.

[SOOPAVILLIN]

Dump the coach(ing), enough of the defence 1st.....let's go out and get a coach(ing) who's ALL about offense.

This way if we lose at least we'll put a few puck in the net................old time hockey 7-6 scores.

I agree let the defense play defense and let the forwards worry about production only.

[ForumGhost]

I've lurked these forums long enough, I can't hold it in anymore.

We have a good team, and we will have an even better one in a couple years. The fact is, we have a young team, but people expect them to play like a fully-matured one immediately. The whole plan all along was to start young and let them grow, and I think that's exactly what's happened thus far. If you ask me, everything's going along with Bob's plan.

Just look at our young players that have been here a couple years: Higgins, Pleks and Komi? Are they good? Yes. Higgins in a goal-scoring machine waiting to happen, anyone can see it. If he could finish the majority of his good chances, he would easily be on pace to a 40 goal season at least. The more experience he gets, the better he will become at finishing his chances. On top of that, he's got tons of energy. Pleks is the same deal, an energetic centre straight out of the Koivu mould. His feet are always moving, he can create some great plays and he has a decent shot on top of that. And, as always, time will make him bettet and wiser. Komi is going to be wrestling with Markov and Hamrlik for the top D spot, and that's saying a lot. He has intensity and skill, and is still maturing. He may not put up the number of Markov or play as steady as Hamrlik, but he's often been our overall best defender in many games this season.

Now look at who's going to be coming up. The Kostitsyn brothers are the obvious place to start. Both of them have shown offensive flair but their consistency is going to be the question. But look at Pleks and Higgins. Were they the most consistent offensive threats of the team when they started? Heck no. It took time. I have no doubt that the brothers are going to be the Sedins of our team in a couple years. Lapierre's role is clear. He can get under the skin of almost any player in the league, and that's what we need him to do. Once he learns to handle the puck a little better, he could fit very nicely on an offensive line if we need him to. Chipchura? Can you complain about him? No one expects him to be a score-sheet hog, but holy cow, is he years ahead of himself. His composure on the ice is that of someone at least 5 years older than him. He always on the puck, and when he has it, he knows what to do with it. He has all the tools to dish out assists on a constant basis with a good winger or two. Latendresse has had some rocky points, but I believe a lot of people still don't realize how young he is. Everything people expect of him are things learned in time. However, recently has been one of our best forwards on more than one night, so I think we will start to see his growth sooner than later.

These are just a couple examples. Obviously, I don't need to mention Price. Every possible good thing about his has already been said, and that easily outweighs the bad.

If you ask me, this team has a bright future.

Bob has drafted smart, and that's all I ask him to do. Remember, it's not always a GM's fault for not being able to pull off a big trade. I'm not in favor of trading out future core away for a quick fix, so who's left to trade? Ryder? What value does he have at this point? Sure, there are many teams that would like to have him, but not for much of a return. He's a gamble, and I'm sure there will be drafts picks coming for him from teams looking for a little playoff help. Just don't expect teams to part with their big guns for him. Huet? A great goaltender, often overlooked as one of the best in the east. But right now, the market for goalies is on life support. Personally, I would like to see him around for longer than he probably will be, but if he's not traded, I wouldn't be surprised if he walks this summer. Despite there being little demand for goalies, I think he's our most realistic trade bait. Saku? C'mon, you would really have to be daft to want him gone. One of our top point producers, our best two-way player, fan favourite, captain and team spirit just because he hasn't had a 10 game point streak? This simply does not compute. How can people argue that he's not top-line material? Just because he's not big? What else is he missing? The ability to score? Nope, he has that. Rack up assists? Got that. Puck handling skills? Especially good at that. The ability to be a game-breaker/clutch player? We see that fairly often, even if it doesn't show up on the score sheet. 70+ point season? Check.

Not every team can have a Joe Thornton. Saku does his job just fine. Plus, trading him would destroy the team's spirit and break the hearts of the fans. I hope his retirement from the blue, blanc et rouge is still a good couple years off.

Kovalev is earning back his spot this team as we speake. Assuming he can keep it up, he's a definate keeper. However, on the other hand, I can think of roughly 29 other teams in the NHL that would love to have him. He's getting on in years, and it might be wise to trade him for someone young, someone who can fill his shoes as a top offensive player. Aside from Price and Koivu (definate trade no-no's), he might be the only single player who would fetch a star in a trade. On top of that, despite his brilliance with the puck, he never really fit into the Montreal system that well.

With that being said, he's pushing us to a playoff season, so I would at least let him stick around until the end of it.

The problem with trades at this point is that there are no sellers yet, considering how tight each conference is. No one is going to give us their playoff hopes unless we give them ours.

Edited December 24, 2007 by ForumGhost

[SOOPAVILLIN]

I've lurked these forums long enough, I can't hold it in anymore.

We have a good team, and we will have an even better one in a couple years. The fact is, we have a young team, but people expect them to play like a fully-matured one immediately. The whole plan all along was to start young and let them grow, and I think that's exactly what's happened thus far. If you ask me, everything's going along with Bob's plan.

Just look at our young players that have been here a couple years: Higgins, Pleks and Komi? Are they good? Yes. Higgins in a goal-scoring machine waiting to happen, anyone can see it. If he could finish the majority of his good chances, he would easily be on pace to a 40 goal season at least. The more experience he gets, the better he will become at finishing his chances. On top of that, he's got tons of energy. Pleks is the same deal, an energetic centre straight out of the Koivu mould. His feet are always moving, he can create some great plays and he has a decent shot on top of that. And, as always, time will make him bettet and wiser. Komi is going to be wrestling with Markov and Hamrlik for the top D spot, and that's saying a lot. He has intensity and skill, and is still maturing. He may not put up the number of Markov or play as steady as Hamrlik, but he's often been our overall best defender in many games this season.

Now look at who's going to be coming up. The Kostitsyn brothers are the obvious place to start. Both of them have shown offensive flair but their consistency is going to be the question. But look at Pleks and Higgins. Were they the most consistent offensive threats of the team when they started? Heck no. It took time. I have no doubt that the brothers are going to be the Sedins of our team in a couple years. Lapierre's role is clear. He can get under the skin of almost any player in the league, and that's what we need him to do. Once he learns to handle the puck a little better, he could fit very nicely on an offensive line if we need him to. Chipchura? Can you complain about him? No one expects him to be a score-sheet hog, but holy cow, is he years ahead of himself. His composure on the ice is that of someone at least 5 years older than him. He always on the puck, and when he has it, he knows what to do with it. He has all the tools to dish out assists on a constant basis with a good winger or two. Latendresse has had some rocky points, but I believe a lot of people still don't realize how young he is. Everything people expect of him are things learned in time. However, recently has been one of our best forwards on more than one night, so I think we will start to see his growth sooner than later.

These are just a couple examples. Obviously, I don't need to mention Price. Every possible good thing about his has already been said, and that easily outweighs the bad.

If you ask me, this team has a bright future.

Bob has drafted smart, and that's all I ask him to do. Remember, it's not always a GM's fault for not being able to pull off a big trade. I'm not in favor of trading out future core away for a quick fix, so who's left to trade? Ryder? What value does he have at this point? Sure, there are many teams that would like to have him, but not for much of a return. He's a gamble, and I'm sure there will be drafts picks coming for him from teams looking for a little playoff help. Just don't expect teams to part with their big guns for him. Huet? A great goaltender, often overlooked as one of the best in the east. But right now, the market for goalies is on life support. Personally, I would like to see him around for longer than he probably will be, but if he's not traded, I wouldn't be surprised if he walks this summer. Despite there being little demand for goalies, I think he's our most realistic trade bait. Saku? C'mon, you would really have to be daft to want him gone. One of our top point producers, our best two-way player, fan favourite, captain and team spirit just because he hasn't had a 10 game point streak? This simply does not compute. How can people argue that he's not top-line material? Just because he's not big? What else is he missing? The ability to score? Nope, he has that. Rack up assists? Got that. Puck handling skills? Especially good at that. The ability to be a game-breaker/clutch player? We see that fairly often, even if it doesn't show up on the score sheet. 70+ point season? Check.

Not every team can have a Joe Thornton. Saku does his job just fine. Plus, trading him would destroy the team's spirit and break the hearts of the fans. I hope his retirement from the blue, blanc et rouge is still a good couple years off.

Kovalev is earning back his spot this team as we speake. Assuming he can keep it up, he's a definate keeper. However, on the other hand, I can think of roughly 29 other teams in the NHL that would love to have him. He's getting on in years, and it might be wise to trade him for someone young, someone who can fill his shoes as a top offensive player. Aside from Price and Koivu (definate trade no-no's), he might be the only single player who would fetch a star in a trade. On top of that, despite his brilliance with the puck, he never really fit into the Montreal system that well.

With that being said, he's pushing us to a playoff season, so I would at least let him stick around until the end of it.

The problem with trades at this point is that there are no sellers yet, considering how tight each conference is. No one is going to give us their playoff hopes unless we give them ours.

It is so refreshing to finally read a post that actually has intelligence, facts, and opinion all rolled into one. Great post you said everyting that I would have said that has been bothering about all the so called "habs fans" on here who have no patience, and constantly bash our team, which is usually based on stats, and you can tell that they didn't even watch the game. Once again GREAT POST.

Edited December 24, 2007 by SOOPAVILLIN

[Habsy]

Forum Ghost, feel free to contribute as much as possible. Excellent reading on a hectic christmas-eve. Welcome Aboard!

[sbhatt]

who knows who the Habs will be able to get in the offseason.

Given the track record, we have to assume we won't get much via free agency. Top players for the most part don't want to play in Montreal.

[lazy26]

Forum Ghost, feel free to contribute as much as possible. Excellent reading on a hectic christmas-eve. Welcome Aboard!

I concur. Lurk no more! That was a refreshing read.

[Neech]

Saku? C'mon, you would really have to be daft to want him gone. One of our top point producers, our best two-way player, fan favourite, captain and team spirit just because he hasn't had a 10 game point streak? This simply does not compute. How can people argue that he's not top-line material? Just because he's not big? What else is he missing? The ability to score? Nope, he has that. Rack up assists? Got that. Puck handling skills? Especially good at that. The ability to be a game-breaker/clutch player? We see that fairly often, even if it doesn't show up on the score sheet. 70+ point season? Check.

Not every team can have a Joe Thornton. Saku does his job just fine. Plus, trading him would destroy the team's spirit and break the hearts of the fans. I hope his retirement from the blue, blanc et rouge is still a good couple years off.

Kovalev is earning back his spot this team as we speake. Assuming he can keep it up, he's a definate keeper. However, on the other hand, I can think of roughly 29 other teams in the NHL that would love to have him. He's getting on in years, and it might be wise to trade him for someone young, someone who can fill his shoes as a top offensive player. Aside from Price and Koivu (definate trade no-no's), he might be the only single player who would fetch a star in a trade. On top of that, despite his brilliance with the puck, he never really fit into the Montreal system that well.

With that being said, he's pushing us to a playoff season, so I would at least let him stick around until the end of it.

The problem with trades at this point is that there are no sellers yet, considering how tight each conference is. No one is going to give us their playoff hopes unless we give them ours.

I agree with almost all of what you wrote before that, aside from calling the Kostitsyns the future Sedins of our team (I sure hope you're right about that one though!).

But you called Saku our best two-way player, and I'll have to disagree. I'd say he's our WORST defensive centerman, Plex, Chips, and Lapierre all get it done in their own zone better than him. It partly has to do with his size because he can't muscle people off the puck, but it's more to do with bad decision-making and weak plays. And in the offensive zone he's not doing well either. Time after time this year he's coughed up the puck, I'd say about two thirds of his games this year he was generally weak. And then there are all the stupid penalties he takes. Currently he's playing worse than lil Kosty and Higgins on his line, we constantly say that he hasn't had quality wingers, but he hasn't really made them better. Plekanec is currently the better centerman in both ends of the rink.

Now I'm not saying that we should get rid of him, last year he was our best forward. He single-handedly won some games for us. But if this pattern of play continues for a while, maybe we should question if his time in Montreal is coming to an end. It's up to him though, we can't and won't trade him if he doesn't want us to.

Trading Kovalev is tricky. He's our best player this year, and he brings it every night more consistently than anyone else. I doubt we could get someone who's playing as well as him. But there's always the chance of him falling back to his old ways. I think we'll probably end up keeping both Koivu and Kovalev.

[RobRock]

I think the only way Gainey can maximize the return on a deal for one of the vetereans is if he can get a bidding war between two teams looking to make a move for their division or one team wanting to get some room from a conference or division opponent in the standings. If they're under contract beyond this season, it should get more than just a pick, and could get another good young player.

Although the team hasn't played as bad during December as they did last season, they've done nothing to demonstrate what direction they're headed in as a group. If January plays out like this month has, I think Gainey has to give some serious thought about making a deal or two, either for a quality forward or sending out someone and playing out the stretch with guys who'll be on the team down the road. I do think he'll deal a goalie, regardless of where they are, but the standings will dictate which goalie goes.

[Pierre the Great]

Minus Price, I don't see very good trade value in the rest of the team.

[saskhab]

We'll be capable of finishing anywhere from 4th to 14th by the trade deadline, so I doubt we'll be selling anyone but Ryder.

[tokyohabs]

I agree with the relative value of the team, but the point was, do you go hardcore youth if we are on the cusp of the playoffs?

Anyway, some one in another thread mentioned that Habs fans have max a 3 game attention span, concerning good-vs-bad. I'd say it is more like 3 shifts.

Poor Ryder seems done for. See ya, enjoy the west coast...or the desert.

[Zowpeb]

Well, I would trade the following guys and be looking for another steady puck-moving d-man(like Hamrlik), and another top 2 line player...gone would be Ryder, Huet and Kovalev at the deadline.

I'd deal Ryder to get something for a guy that, despite a poor year to date, is likely still(or at least should still be) considered a good, young player. Is he a little one dimensional? Maybe...but guys that can put up 30 goals seasons consistently are still hard to find, valued, commodities. One bad half-year doesn't destory his credibility IMHO. However, he's getting edged out by some really good young players who are better all around and he's become more expensive to us and therefore more expendable. Deal him to a team that needs a sniper...get back whatever you can.

As for Huet and Kovalev...I'd deal them under the scenario of this team being only a "possible" 8th seed at best. However, I think this team is better then that and I'd be sorely tempted to keep both for the playoffs as I personally think this team is a 4th to 6th seed at worst.

I think this team needs to look at getting that d-man for a play-off run, especially if it plans on dealing Huet.

If you deal Huet then you need to give Price every chance to succeed and build confidence in the playoffs.

If you deal Ryder but still want to compete NOW then you need to make either a Ryder deal, or the Huet deal, a bigger package that includes a couple of draft picks(possibly high ones) and maybe 1-2 mid-tier prospects to acquire top line scoring replacement.

I believe the Habs are very close to being a really high quality team...acquiring another top 4, steady, d-man(like Hamrlik) and a high level scorer, without losing core pieces, would put this team as one of the tops in the conference. It has the prospect depth to afford dealing some of it with picks included, plus it has the goalie depth to afford dealing Huet/Halak. I'm all for the "slow and steady" growth but the team is positioned to make some waves at the deadline without really upsetting it's long term goals.

If you could deal(s) something like Fischer(or)Maxwell, Huet, Ryder, a 1st round pick and a couple guys in the tier of Locke, Grabovski, White, D'Agostini, etc...then you should be able to package up enough prospect youth, NHL ready talent, and off-setting salary to make something happen. The team would then keep their core young players so I don't see how making SOME sort of effort to trade and improve would be considered a "bad idea". And any inclusion of a higher rated or more NHL ready top level prospect would then limit the picks included...

Edited December 28, 2007 by Zowpeb

[Neech]

I wouldn't bank on getting another veteran/quality d-man, they're not too easy to come by and we can't afford to dish out another contract like Hamrlik's. We most likely gotta hope for continuing improvement out of Komi and Markov and the emergence of O'byrne or Gorges.

I also disagree on dealing Kovalev for a top 6 forward. He's our best top 6 forward! I also think he might bring it next year because it's the contract year.

[Zowpeb]

I wouldn't bank on getting another veteran/quality d-man, they're not too easy to come by and we can't afford to dish out another contract like Hamrlik's. We most likely gotta hope for continuing improvement out of Komi and Markov and the emergence of O'byrne or Gorges.

I also disagree on dealing Kovalev for a top 6 forward. He's our best top 6 forward! I also think he might bring it next year because it's the contract year.

A couple things...I think you can acquire that type of d-man with the right offering. I also don't think that good starting goalies are typically as available as they are perceived to be right now(due to Bryzgalov(sp?)). I also think that Huet will have a lot more value at the trade deadline then some may expect. Goalies are the lynch pin of any playoff team...at least a couple will be looking. If you are a team with goalie needs wouldn't you trade a d-man for Huet, one of our MANY depth d-men and a prospect??

As for Kovalev, I would prefer to keep him if dealing Ryder with a 1st rounder and a prospect would be enough to get you another real scoring threat...however, I WOULD trade Kovalev for all I could get if this team slumps down to being a non-playoff team. Then I'd let the kids play as much as I could, filter it out, see what's on the UFA market, tweak it and have another run next year.

In fact, if this team was to drop down to being a 9th place team or lower(which I HIGHLY doubt) then I would actually be willing to blow up the vets and send them packing. There is some really good young talent on the Habs...and some real solid vets. If this team drops to a non-playoff level I'd fire the coaches, and be willing to trade Koivu, Kovalev, Ryder, Huet, Dandenault, Begin, Bouillon and Smolinski...all at once. I know, I know, you can't deal the whole team and obviously you wouldn't...but I would really not care if this team underperforms again, and I would seriously question the coaching and on-ice leadership as being incapable.