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Arguments about Koivu


SAKS-AVENUE

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KOIVU YOU SUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!

Keep it together KoZed. As a moderator of this site, stuff like this really makes you sound like an idiot. It's one thing to be pissed, but to go on and on and on and on really is kind of stupid.

We lost! Take it like a man, not a five year old.

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Keep it together KoZed. As a moderator of this site, stuff like this really makes you sound like an idiot. It's one thing to be pissed, but to go on and on and on and on really is kind of stupid.

We lost! Take it like a man, not a five year old.

1- I was trying to reverse-jinx Koivu...

2- Didn't work because Saku had no legs at all today

3- Saku isn't above being called on his poor performances.

4- Get over your crush on the little Finn guy. If you can't deal with criticism of other fans toward your favorite player, maybe hockey forums are not for you and you'd be more at ease on a fanclub site...

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1- I was trying to reverse-jinx Koivu...

2- Didn't work because Saku had no legs at all today

3- Saku isn't above being called on his poor performances.

4- Get over your crush on the little Finn guy. If you can't deal with criticism of other fans toward your favourite player, maybe hockey forums are not for you and you'd be more at ease on a fanclub site...

1. Didn't realize that's what you were doing. I can get behind that.

2. Just like the rest of the team half way into the second.

3. You are right ....he's not

4. I can absolutely deal with criticism of any player. Especially when it comes from a guy like BTH, Walmsley, JMMR, and you actually learn something or look at it from a whole different angle. The way you did it? I'll stick to my earlier comment.

which was........

Keep it together KoZed. As a moderator of this site, stuff like this really makes you sound like an idiot. It's one thing to be pissed, but to go on and on and on and on really is kind of stupid.
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4. I can absolutely deal with criticism of any player. Especially when it comes from a guy like BTH, Walmsley, JMMR, and you actually learn something or look at it from a whole different angle. The way you did it? I'll stick to my earlier comment.

We're way past the point of approaching carefuly the Koivu case. If he had been slumping for a couple of weeks, then I'd agree with you. But the guy hasn't looked good for months.

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O.K that's all fine. I just hate the fact that everyone ignores the good he is doing. Which he is, but one blunder, bad penalty, or he wipes out you don't have to blast 20 posts in a row and then 20 more with FULL SIZE COLORED FONTS saying he sucks. It's annoying. But whatever, do what makes you feel good. You will be the one wanting his babies when he brings the cup to Montreal.

Whatever, I don't want to argue with you. it just bugs me. Sorry.

Your signature is annoying.

Edited by SAKS-AVENUE
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O.K that's all fine. I just hate the fact that everyone ignores the good he is doing. Which he is, but one blunder, bad penalty, or he wipes out you don't have to blast 20 posts in a row and then 20 more with FULL SIZE COLORED FONTS saying he sucks. It's annoying. But whatever, do what makes you feel good. You will be the one wanting his babies when he brings the cup to Montreal.

Whatever, I don't want to argue with you. it just bugs me. Sorry.

Your signature is annoying.

I agree. I have been on Koivu's back a lot this season, but KoZed is going over the top. My guess is he's a guy who has a scapegoat each year that he wants run out of town.

We don't need to trade our captain, we're 4th in the conference.

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It's frustrating to see everyone ride Koivu just because he's not perfect. He leads a team that has the 2nd most points in the East. Sounds good to me.

And, as I recall, Kovalev was playing a lot worse last season than Koivu is playing this season, and look at him now. Gainey gave him a chance, something it seems a lot of people aren't willing to give Koivu. How Leaf-ish.

Edited by ForumGhost
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It's frustrating to see everyone ride Koivu just because he's not perfect. He leads a team that has the 2nd most points in the East. Sounds good to me.

Give me a friggin' break. Kovalev, Markov and Komisarek have lead -ie. carried on their back by matching the opposition's best guys- this team so far this season.

I'll give Koivu his due: kids do look up to him in the locker room. That's about where his "leadership" begins and ends this season.

On the ice, the Koivu is but a shadow of his former self. I feel bad for him. I wish nothing more than for him to prove me wrong... but it's not happening. 52 games into the season and I'm still waiting.

Either 1 of 4 things:

A) Koivu is bummed that Gainey couldn't sign a top forward last summer and decided he'd wait until the team would be in the playoffs before turning it on. Very un-Koivu like, but he did voice his displeasure in last year, so you never know...

B) Koivu is starting to show the signs of all the injuries and sickness over the years. He's lost a critical step and he's on the downhill side of his career.

C) Koivu is just in the biggest slump of his career and he'll come out of it... someday...

D) A little of all of the above.

I'll go with D. But regardless, I'd wish people would stop making up excuses and finding ways to exonerate him from blame when the team loses.

When Huet let's in a soft goal or two, he deserves some blame.

When the D-men blow their covers, they deserve some blame.

When the checking players are invisible, they deserve some blame.

When offensive players dont produce, they deserve some blame.

In most games the Habs win because Plex's line or the PP or the depth lines score. So we forget about Koivu's line being invisible or not producing. But in games like today's where our best line is tightly kept in check; it is the other offensive line's duty to step up and pick up the slack. They've done it ONCE in the past 2 months and it has been against NJ.

Some of you might want to cut Koivu some slack for various reasons. But those other fans can smell the coffee and realize we will never be able to compete against the very best if Koivu doesn't step up and play inspired and inspiring hockey the way he used to prior to this season and the way his salary demands that he does.

BTW, for those of you unfamiliar with sarcasm and humor: Koivu has a NTC. Bob can't just go and trade him.

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I'll give Koivu his due: kids do look up to him in the locker room. That's about where his "leadership" begins and ends this season.

On the ice, the Koivu is but a shadow of his former self. I feel bad for him. I wish nothing more than for him to prove me wrong... but it's not happening. 52 games into the season and I'm still waiting.

Either 1 of 4 things:

A) Koivu is bummed that Gainey couldn't sign a top forward last summer and decided he'd wait until the team would be in the playoffs before turning it on. Very un-Koivu like, but he did voice his displeasure in last year, so you never know...

B) Koivu is starting to show the signs of all the injuries and sickness over the years. He's lost a critical step and he's on the downhill side of his career.

C) Koivu is just in the biggest slump of his career and he'll come out of it... someday...

D) A little of all of the above.

I'll go with D. But regardless, I'd wish people would stop making up excuses and finding ways to exonerate him from blame when the team loses.

When Huet let's in a soft goal or two, he deserves some blame.

When the D-men blow their covers, they deserve some blame.

When the checking players are invisible, they deserve some blame.

When offensive players dont produce, they deserve some blame.

In most games the Habs win because Plex's line or the PP or the depth lines score. So we forget about Koivu's line being invisible or not producing. But in games like today's where our best line is tightly kept in check; it is the other offensive line's duty to step up and pick up the slack. They've done it ONCE in the past 2 months and it has been against NJ.

Koivu has 6pts in the last six games. He didn't really do much before that in a 5 game 0pt slump. Before that, he's had pretty much a point per game. He's having an average Saku season and I'm sure the best is yet to come.

What the "F" are you talking about?

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In most games the Habs win because Plex's line or the PP or the depth lines score. So we forget about Koivu's line being invisible or not producing. But in games like today's where our best line is tightly kept in check; it is the other offensive line's duty to step up and pick up the slack. They've done it ONCE in the past 2 months and it has been against NJ.

Some of you might want to cut Koivu some slack for various reasons. But those other fans can smell the coffee and realize we will never be able to compete against the very best if Koivu doesn't step up and play inspired and inspiring hockey the way he used to prior to this season and the way his salary demands that he does.

BTW, for those of you unfamiliar with sarcasm and humor: Koivu has a NTC. Bob can't just go and trade him.

In the last six games......Koivu, Pleks, Markov, and Kovalev all have 6 pts. The team is doing really well. If we beat Ottawa nextweek and the Leafs we are going to be in first place. Again I'll ask....

What the "F" are you talking about.

Unless you, for some reason were expecting 40 goals from Saku you should put the crack pipe down. We have a good balanced team that is doing well with they're Captains guidance. I'm in complete disbelief of the daggers you throw at him. RI-FUKIN-DIKK-U-LUS

Edited by SAKS-AVENUE
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Would you guys be talking about this if Montreal won today?

Prolly, always some guy shooting from the hip at Saku no matter what happens. I think maybe the Saku whiners were silenced for about 12 hours after Saku and Higgins won that game in New Jersey before the shrill noise once again resumed.

Edited by Dirty Harry
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Would you guys be talking about this if Montreal won today?

Exactly the point I was making.

All the wins cover up the fact that we've had little offense from Koivu's line for the past 40 games. But it becomes obvious when Kovy's line is shutdown like it has been today.

As for our resident Koivu Lover... still waiting for a valid arguement...

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Exactly the point I was making.

All the wins cover up the fact that we've had little offense from Koivu's line for the past 40 games. But it becomes obvious when Kovy's line is shutdown like it has been today.

As for our resident Koivu Lover... still waiting for a valid arguement...

Who asissted on Kovalev's goal. Saku DID. Who was on the ice for Markovs goal Saku WAS. Who was on the ice for T1Ts Breakaway. SAKU WAS. When little titz got nailed who went to his rescue, SAKU DID.

He played a solid game. Where was everyone else? He can't do it all by himself.

Valid argument? There's nothing to argue. He is the Captain and will be for a long time. YOU LOSE.

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Valid argument? There's nothing to argue. He is the Captain and will be for a long time. YOU LOSE.

Hummm... no valid arguement?

How about Saku always taking bad lazy hooking penalties? He's second to Kostopoulos in PIMs on the team, more than Komisarek!

How about Saku being 16th on the team in +/- along with guys like Breezer and Gorges?

How about Saku having mere little 0 goals and 4 assists in the Habs past 13 losses when they needed scoring from another line than Kovy's?

How about Saku only having 3 more even-strength points than Latendresse or Komisarek?

How about Saku's line having just 5 GWG this season, as much as Streit & Hamrlik combined?

How about Saku having just 1 more point against teams from our division than Smolinski?

All that despite getting the 2nd most ice-time per game (18:05 in avg) of all our forwards after Kovalev.

THAT is what I refered to when I said "valid arguement", something supported by facts.

Sky = blue

Grass = green

Case = closed.

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I think Saku is clearly showing the effects of a long, injury-laden career. The 'lazy' penalties are almost always behind-the-play stuff, signs of tiring, lack of sharpness. His performances have been, overall this season, at best mediocre. The Koivu lovers seem to come with only two arguments:

1) He's the Captain. Err, ok.

2) (Wait until he has a decent game, then) Did you see him do this and this and this tonight???? Are you crazy????

As they often accuse those who are less than enamored with #11 of being too subjective, the exact same thing can be said for them.

Frankly, I feel that if Plex's line doesn't score, we have almost no chance to win, because Saks' line cannot be counted on to lead us to victory. At least last year, with the insane minus stats, they were also putting up decent points numbers. Kovalev does it regularly, that is why his mistakes can be offset, to a degree. To nit-pick and say it is Ryder, Higgins or Koivu is to gloss things over: they aren't performing, and are all to blame. Koivu is the Captain and very well-paid, so is a more obvious lighting-rod.

I like Koivu a lot, and would love to see him lift the Cup with us (who wouldn't?), but he is burning out, I'm afraid. Years of being asked to do way, way too much, and the wracking injuries / illnesses picking away at him. I can't believe it is an attitude thing, not with him.

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Hummm... no valid arguement?

How about Saku always taking bad lazy hooking penalties? He's second to Kostopoulos in PIMs on the team, more than Komisarek!

How about Saku being 16th on the team in +/- along with guys like Breezer and Gorges?

How about Saku having mere little 0 goals and 4 assists in the Habs past 13 losses when they needed scoring from another line than Kovy's?

How about Saku only having 3 more even-strength points than Latendresse or Komisarek?

How about Saku's line having just 5 GWG this season, as much as Streit & Hamrlik combined?

How about Saku having just 1 more point against teams from our division than Smolinski?

All that despite getting the 2nd most ice-time per game (18:05 in avg) of all our forwards after Kovalev.

THAT is what I refered to when I said "valid arguement", something supported by facts.

Sky = blue

Grass = green

Case = closed.

man you should do politic, even Mario Dumont would not make statistics look like what he wants them to look like as you did there. It's even worse than "La période en chiffres" at RDS...

Who gives a ###### about GWG if his line scored the 2 first of the game?? Who gives a ###### about points against teams from our division as long as we are 11-7-1 so far ?

Ok for the 5 on 5 slump and the penalties, but the rest ain't shit !

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Kozed.......If you want to start an "arguements about Koivu Thread", then start one in your own name. Don't start it my name. I was defending him in a GAME THREAD after some bullshit remarks in that GAME THREAD. How all of the sudden am I the topic starter. I would never encourage this kind of bullshit.

So, please use your moderator perks and change the name to KoZed as the topic starter, I want no part of it.

KOIVU RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Saku's line isnt doing anything, so I want Koivus head. :lol:

Although I definitely agree with most of KoZed's points I dont place all the blame on Koivu. Last time I checked he was on a line with 2 other Forwards. They are also just as much the Loch Ness monsters of this season. If you really want to get technical and start pointing fingers it should probably go in this order: Ryder (18), Higgins (34), and then Koivu (39)

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Geez you should take Ativan or vallium once in a while. you're taking this stuff way too personally.

while he does put decent number on PP, koivu has slowed down tremendously and is less effective 5 on 5. obviously every players career comes to an end and Koivu at 33, isn't a spring chicken anymore. its happened too all the best players in the game. some of them changed to be defensive minded players and lasted longer, like yzerman...I can see koivu doing this.

whether we like it or not, koivu is at the twillight of his career.

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Geez you should take Ativan or vallium once in a while. you're taking this stuff way too personally.

while he does put decent number on PP, koivu has slowed down tremendously and is less effective 5 on 5. obviously every players career comes to an end and Koivu at 33, isn't a spring chicken anymore. its happened too all the best players in the game. some of them changed to be defensive minded players and lasted longer, like yzerman...I can see koivu doing this.

whether we like it or not, koivu is at the twillight of his career.

I can't say that you're wrong, but there might be other explanations. We all said the same things about Kovy last year, and look at him now. Who really knows what is going on with Koivu? All we can do is speculate.

I do doubt that he will regain his #1 C status, but I have no doubt that he can remain effective and an integral part of this team for many more years.

PS - Benzodiazepines are addictive and are prescribed far too easily and frequently. :P

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PS - Benzodiazepines are addictive and are prescribed far too easily and frequently. :P

you dont say !! you'll have to shove it down my throat before I take something to help me sleep. except for coffee of course :lol:

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Why isnt S. Kostitsyn playing with Koivu and Higgins? They seemed to do fine. I think they are trying to get Ryder going so they can trade him but Ryder doesnt seem to want to get going.

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