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Sundin.....any thoughts


Harp77
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Sundin is the best player available but he doesn't fit into our team at all. I'd rather sign Rolston, Shanahan or other guys of that level, we don't need a franchise player (our team is actually built around that idea).

Sundin's the kind of player I'd make fit.

Rolston or Hossa would certainly be good guys to get on board though. Rolston certainly strikes me as the kind of player Gainey is looking for.

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Sign all three! :clap:

:hlogo:

Just kidding of course, Sundin would be great but Vinny could be available next summer, and were going to have cap space galore then. Hossa now, possibly Sundin for a year then Vinny next!

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Waiting for Vinnie is a little too much like waiting for Godot. First, TB has repeatedly indicated that he is their cornerstone. This suggests they will try very hard to re-sign him, as teams usually do with franchise players in the cap era. Second, he had the chance to go UFA before and signed with them. This suggests that he is comfortable there. Third, if he *were* available he would be hotly pursued by several teams including the usual cast of characters who always seem to attract UFAs (TO, Colorado, NY Rangers, etc.) and who always seem to beat us out in the UFA hunt. And fourth, just because he is a French Canadian Montreal boy does NOT mean he will automatically prefer to play in Montreal. We've seen time and again players make the soulless choice.

At least with Sundin the first and second issues may not arise. IF he is interested, for God's sake, sign him!!!!

As for BTH's interesting view that our team is not 'built' for franchise players, I respect that but disagree. (So does Gainey, incidentally, as he has clearly stated his desire to sign such a player). I think ANY team can accommodate a Mats Sundin. Just like any team could accommodate, say, a Joe Sakic or a Mike Modano is his good years. This is especially so given that our team has needed a bona-fide elite centreman for years and years. Sundin will fills a glaring need on several levels.

Having said that, there are other good players out there (e.g., Rolston), and BTH is correct to say that Sundin is not the be-all and end-all. He is, however, our best option by a country mile.

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Chicoutimi Cucumber, it's not that I don't want a franchise player. I just don't feel like Sundin fits into our team and is the player we need. He is a short-term solution so we want him to fill short-term needs. I think that the centre problem is a long-term one - what will we do when Koivu retires, we only have Plekanec? - and that Sundin isn't going to fix that. Aren't we better off with someone who fits into our team? The way I see it, we would have to go out of our way to accomodate Sundin, having to shape the team around him.

Sundin's the kind of player I'd make fit.

Is it worth it for a short-term solution?

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Is it worth it for a short-term solution?

If it helps Montreal get deep in the playoffs, certainly.

Best part is that we wouldn't have to sacrifice any youth via a trade for this kind of player (as Montreal would have had they traded for him). If anything it would mean a guy like Chipchura or Lapierre find themselves in Hamilton.

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Certainly Sundin is a short-term fix (e.g., two years). But this costs us nothing, not just because we won't be giving up an asset to get him, but also because we have no one in the system, or on the team right now, who shows any signs of being a #1 C of that elite level. So he wouldn't be taking away from anyone's development (in, say, the way Ribeiro might have done to Plekanec). And having him around could only help our wingers develop, it seems to me; certainly it won't hurt.

Would we need to radically change the system to accommodate Sundin? Why? We already play an up-tempo, offensive game; it's not like you're asking a squad of defensive specialists to suddenly make a huge adjustment. So what's left? The "problem" of too many big egos in the dressing room? Sorry, I can't believe that Koivu and Kovalev would not LOVE to add a top-10 player. Doing so can only extend their own careers, as well as (potentially) make them contenders. I'll grant that the chemistry might not mesh, but that's an unpredictable X factor in any major move. It's not like Sundin has a rep as a rotten teammate.

At face value, this is one of the most clearly no-lose scenarios that's come up in recent years. Most UFAs carry huge long-term risk, but not this one.

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it would mean a guy like Chipchura or Lapierre find themselves in Hamilton.

No tragedy there, based on what I saw out of both of them this past season.

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Montreal has been lacking a big centre for years and a goal scorer for years.

Seeing how the Habs led the league in scoring, you'd make space for someone like Sundin.

I mean, everyone is saying how Montreal should draft a big forward who can play centre preferably because they've been lacking on that for years. Well, you have one of the biggest and best centres in the league who could potentially hit the market and join your team, you make space for that. His short term presence is more than enough time to develop some youth down in the farm.

Hossa is also good as well. One of the major risks that you have to deal with Hossa is that he's going to take a big bite from your cap and how much of those playoffs numbers he currently has are due to Crosby inflation.

Edit: Hells yeah it's worth the short term risk. Adding Sundin turns the Habs into favourable playoff team to potential legit contender. Keep in mind, you plan to build long term success but you also play to win NOW and take your chances if it's an available option.

Edit #2 : Accommodate Sundin? Have you seen who he had on his wings in Toronto for years? What Montreal has right now is a massive upgrade to all the trash he's had to deal with and still managed to put up respectable points with players whom I'd be insulted to put on the same line with Mats if I was the coach or GM of his team.

Edit #3: I wanted to make this for fun but then it hit me, this should say whom Bob values more: offers Higgins for Sundin (and gets blocked by Mats) but doesn't offer Higgins for Hossa whom was the deal maker and breaker.

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No tragedy there, based on what I saw out of both of them this past season.

I thought that Chipchura played rather well for us this season.

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Certainly Sundin is a short-term fix (e.g., two years). But this costs us nothing, not just because we won't be giving up an asset to get him, but also because we have no one in the system, or on the team right now, who shows any signs of being a #1 C of that elite level. So he wouldn't be taking away from anyone's development (in, say, the way Ribeiro might have done to Plekanec). And having him around could only help our wingers develop, it seems to me; certainly it won't hurt.

Would we need to radically change the system to accommodate Sundin? Why? We already play an up-tempo, offensive game; it's not like you're asking a squad of defensive specialists to suddenly make a huge adjustment. So what's left? The "problem" of too many big egos in the dressing room? Sorry, I can't believe that Koivu and Kovalev would not LOVE to add a top-10 player. Doing so can only extend their own careers, as well as (potentially) make them contenders. I'll grant that the chemistry might not mesh, but that's an unpredictable X factor in any major move. It's not like Sundin has a rep as a rotten teammate.

At face value, this is one of the most clearly no-lose scenarios that's come up in recent years. Most UFAs carry huge long-term risk, but not this one.

Right, this is what I'm talking about, not about egos, or him hurting anyone's development. I don't think he fits into the team - not the team's philosophy but the team's players. We are offensive, he is offensive - that part fits. But he is a very difficult guy to build a line around. Antropov and Ponikarovsky might be worse than the players we would surround Mats with but I feel that those two guys complement Sundin better than anyone we have could aside for maybe Higgins.

What would you do with Koivu then? Have him on the third line with D'Agostini and Latendresse? It could work but it seems to cause as many problems as it solves. I'm aware that Bob has interest in Sundin, but he seems to be a guy that's very careful about who he signs or acquires, he always wants the player that fits in perfectly. His quote, ironically before signing Sergei Samsonov, sums that up: "I bet you'd want to get married someday. But you'd want it to be with the right person, right?"

Edited by BTH
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Right, this is what I'm talking about, not about egos, or him hurting anyone's development. I don't think he fits into the team - not the team's philosophy but the team's players. We are offensive, he is offensive - that part fits. But he is a very difficult guy to build a line around. Antropov and Ponikarovsky might be worse than the players we would surround Mats with but I feel that those two guys complement Sundin better than anyone we have could aside for maybe Higgins.

What would you do with Koivu then? Have him on the third line with D'Agostini and Latendresse? It could work but it seems to cause as many problems as it solves. I'm aware that Bob has interest in Sundin, but he seems to be a guy that's very careful about who he signs or acquires, he always wants the player that fits in perfectly. His quote, ironically before signing Sergei Samsonov, sums that up: "I bet you'd want to get married someday. But you'd want it to be with the right person, right?"

The concerns you have about How Sundin would fit? are a little like walking on eggshells. I hope we are not so fragile that adding a player with his talent would kill the dressing room or line combination.

I think it would be a perfect time for a Sundin type of player. Start him out with TlTs and Kovalev. Adjust as needed. Koivu can centre the second line and Pleks on the third. As the season wears on Koivu move him to third and bring Pleks into the second line. Let the season dictate the rest. It would be a good time to start the Koivu transition. He will still be the player he is but the wear and tear of the season won't burn him out.

TlTS SUNDIN KOVALEV

HIGGINS KOIVU LiL TlTS

LATENDRESSE PLEKS D'AGOSTINI or Trotter or new signing

BEGIN LAPS KOSTO

I wouldn't be bummed to start the season with that. Some might think Pleks doesn't deserve to be on the 3rd line but Carbo rolls 4 lines and if Pleks gets hot he'll get ice time, also we can limit Saks when he starts to fry out.

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mixed feelings on this would be weird for sure to see the leaf's captain in a habs' uniform like messing with balance in the hockey universe

I loved Doug Gilmour. I wouldn't mind seeing Sundin in a Habs jersey.

It would be stricly a short-time thing though, let's make that perfectly clear.

BTW, who was the last Habs to wear the #13 jersey? :unsure:

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Hmm i'm on the fence on this topic, i agree with BTH, but there's also the argument how Sundin has been doing pretty good with lacklustre wingers, if he comes to montreal... dayum think of the possibilities.

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What I think, is that every once and a while, circumstances are such that you have a

chance to contend.

I feel we're in that window.

Thats why I had a burr under my *** when there was talk of trading Kovalev.

We have a talented young team, thats going to cost us alot to keep together.

But, that cost starts in 09-10. We have a window to contend.

So signing Sundin for 1 year at what it takes is ok with me. In fact if we signed

Rolston or Jagr and or told Selanne he could play 2 months for us its ok with me.

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Well that's the whole concept of make him fit. You never know who Sundin is going to click with. Montreal has many offensive players. Everyone made such a fuss about Sergei Kostitsyn being a potentially excellent centre and when they tried him out he stunk. If you sign Sundin, you fixed that problem.

No one made such a fuss about when Markov, Higgins, Lapierre, Grabovski, Begin and Streit were told to try new positions. Sometimes, it worked out for the better (see Markov). Well I guess now if Sundin were to sign, you keep trying for the best combinations. For all we know maybe he'll play at his best with Grabovski and Latendresse as wingers.

(Psst SAKS, Trotter isn't quite there yet. Same with D'Agostini. On the physical department, Pacioretty is already ahead of both.)

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I would give Sundin 1 year pretty much whatever he wanted.

What team in the league could match Sundin Plekanec Koivu Chipchura down the middle?

Sundin would seriously close in on a 100 point season in Montreal next year barring injury.

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I would give Sundin 1 year pretty much whatever he wanted.

What team in the league could match Sundin Plekanec Koivu Chipchura down the middle?

Sundin would seriously close in on a 100 point season in Montreal next year barring injury.

I agree. Blank cheque. Mats has stated many times that he wants to sign one year deals to finish out his career,

so overpaying on a one year deal is not a big deal.

I don't understand the chemistry concerns. Mats Sundin would automatically become the best player on the team,

would there be an adjustment period? of course, but Sundin works hard and Sundin does a lot of dirty work.

Koivu, Kovy, Pleks, Higgins would all adjust. If they get off to a slow start, who cares. 1st place in the east this season

resulted in 5 playoff wins. This is about creating momentum for the playoffs. After 60 games I am sure they would have

figured out their respective roles and driving towards the playoffs would be a definite favourite in the east.

If the goal is to win the Cup, then bold moves must be made at some point. Seeing as it is a low risk veteran, I don't

see how you do not exhaust all avenues to acquire a player like him.

Edited by Wamsley01
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I would take Sundin on for a year, barring a better move to get us a similarly talented, younger 1st line centre for longer. I am not sure if there is much available, so this could be viewed as a stop gap measure.

Personally, I dont' see Pleks or any of our current centers becoming a top number one centre in this league. Getting one via trade or free agent signing seems our best bet.

I do think we have positions 2, 3, and 4th centre locked up for a long time.

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I agree. Blank cheque. Mats has stated many times that he wants to sign one year deals to finish out his career,

so overpaying on a one year deal is not a big deal.

I don't understand the chemistry concerns. Mats Sundin would automatically become the best player on the team,

would there be an adjustment period? of course, but Sundin works hard and Sundin does a lot of dirty work.

Koivu, Kovy, Pleks, Higgins would all adjust. If they get off to a slow start, who cares. 1st place in the east this season

resulted in 5 playoff wins. This is about creating momentum for the playoffs. After 60 games I am sure they would have

figured out their respective roles and driving towards the playoffs would be a definite favourite in the east.

If the goal is to win the Cup, then bold moves must be made at some point. Seeing as it is a low risk veteran, I don't

see how you do not exhaust all avenues to acquire a player like him.

Exactly and should they be a healthy team come playoff time no defensive unit of six outside of Detroit would scare me.

I would honestly have no complaints if Gainey signed Sundin to something along the lines of 6.5 million + (1 million cup finals or 3 million win the cup)

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this is hockey you sign the best players you can get, whether it is doug gilmore, or big frank mahovolich I see signing Sundin in the same way as when we traded for big Frank As I recall that seemed to work out pretty good. No question you sign Sundin for 8m$ for at least 1 year. If you can get him. I hope like hell that we do It could mean the cup.

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My cousin showed me this link this morning.

I seriously hope Toronto doesn't expect to land a Nashville - Philadelphia scenario. All this does is open the bidding for Mats Sundin earlier than July 1st.

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My cousin showed me this link this morning.

I seriously hope Toronto doesn't expect to land a Nashville - Philadelphia scenario. All this does is open the bidding for Mats Sundin earlier than July 1st.

The Nashville scenario was essentially them getting their first pick back in the deal. Who knows if that was a wink wink nudge nudge deal

made when they acquired Forsberg in the first place. It has always smelled fishy to me.

I wouldn't give up a first rounder to a division rival for the right to negotiate with the guy. Sundin has stated that he wants to keep his options open by signing one year deals,

so if a team balks at paying a first rounder to the Leafs to negotiatie, that team would essentially be removed from the process, not really leaving Mats with all his options open.

If Sundin is really pissed at the Leafs and wants out of the circus, I don't think he is concerned with helping them out.

Is it possible? Sure. But Shoalts is a hardcore Maple Leaf lover, so his spin is in no way a surprise.

Edited by Wamsley01
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The more i think about it the lesser i want to see Sundin in a habs shirt.

I prefer to see a team than waiting in the return of 7m investment for a 38 years old that is more

likely to get injured as years go by.

We would become a country club with him, combining the feud between who's the bigger ego between

Kovu=y, Koivu or Sundin. No thanks. Go to Colombus or Vancouver.

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