Sundin.....any thoughts

[JMMR]

The more i think about it the lesser i want to see Sundin in a habs shirt.

I prefer to see a team than waiting in the return of 7m investment for a 38 years old that is more

likely to get injured as years go by.

We would become a country club with him, combining the feud between who's the bigger ego between

Kovu=y, Koivu or Sundin. No thanks. Go to Colombus or Vancouver.

Thing is Koivu Kovalev and Sundin are all champions so they would put their egos aside ala the Celtics this year Allen, Garnett and Peirce.

[Wamsley01]

Thing is Koivu Kovalev and Sundin are all champions so they would put their egos aside ala the Celtics this year Allen, Garnett and Peirce.

People need to remove the jersey he has worn for the last 14 years from the equation.

If Mats Sundin played for 14 years for the LA Kings, put up essentially 80 points per season, made 2 conference

finals with pretty shitty teams and was available on a 1-2 year non cap killing deal I think that people would view this entirely differently.

Maybe Sundin is leaving the Leafs because he can't stand the fact that they acquired that dirty Finn Vesa Toskala????

I have watched plenty of teams load up with All-Stars in their later years and they drop the BS at the door because they

WANT TO WIN.

I have zero worries about him fitting in in Montreal. I only worry that he takes the easy route and goes for the powerhouse

team who looks like the sure thing. But maybe he has learned something from Cujo who tried to piggyback the Wings to his

own Cup.

This will come down to money and opportunity. Loyalty to the Blue and White and looking for a team for him to hang with his

fellow countrymen are theories based in base level thinking. Who knows if he is so pissed at the Leafs that he heads down

the 401 and wins a title to shove up their ass.

Gainey will make his pitch, maybe he is convinced, maybe he isn't.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Tony]

If Koivu and Kovalev have ego problems with each other then it's going to be challenging for Bob to add any sort of star player.

As JMMR said, I don't think there's an ego problem and they will settle their differences aside if they even exist to win.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm surprised at how many fans still underestimate the "professionalism" - not to say businesslike cynicism - of most atheletes. People talk as though Sundin is a True Blue Maple Leaf who, if he goes the UFA route, won't be able to "stand" playing for their biggest rival (and incidentally, Detroit is almost as hated a traditional rival as Montreal in TO). Or they think Koivu will hate him because of the Leafs days, or even his Swedishness. Or, for that matter, they talk as though Vinnie Lecavalier is just DYING to play for his "beloved" hometown Habs.

Wake up and smell the 8-million-dollar latte, folks. Sundin is a pro and this is a business decision, full stop. If he becomes a UFA he almost certainly will play with ANYONE who a) pays him a huge amount and b) gives him a chance to win. Koivu and Kovalev will do handstands at the acquisition of a player who gives THEM a chance to win. Much in the same way, I seriously doubt that Lecavalier gives a rat's ass about the :hlogo: - if he leaves TB it will be for similar reasons (money + chance to win). If the Habs offer both, plus maybe a few other intangibles (such as an attractive city) he'll sign with us; if not, he won't. C.f. Daniel Briere. Players are loyal to a sweater for nothing more than the duration of their contracts. It amazes me, frankly, that fans don't have the same attitude - loyalty to players for that same duration.

Edited June 2, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Prime Minister Koivu]

On a one year deal offer him the max.

We have the cap space and paying too much on a one year contract means nothing.

Then we can try and resign him for a more reasonable contract the year after if things work out. If not then we offer Vinny a very serious contract instead.

[BTH]

There isn't much I can add without going around in circles. I agree that he would probably be the best player on our team next season (the only potential exceptions would be Kovalev and to a much lesser extent Price). I just feel that a team in our position - that is to say, a team that is "one player away" - should be sure to make that one player one fits right into the team, one that you can slip right into a hole you have in your lines.

I don't feel like Sundin would do that, nor do I think he would get 100 points. Wamsley, you used to talk about how the experts would give the same lazy analysis each time they predicted how the Habs would do last season. "They relied on their PP, they lost Souray who's good on the PP, they're going to be 13th in the East." I think that guaranteeing Sundin could get 100 points with the Habs is the same sort of lazy analysis. "He had something like 80 points on a terrible team. We have the #1 offence in the league so he could get 100 points on our team." I said it earlier, but I feel that Antropov and Ponikarovsky are better linematers for Sundin than anyone we have except for maybe Higgins. I'm not saying they are better players than our guys, just more likely to succeed on his line because he needs other big guys to cycle around the boards with him. He isn't really the type of guy you stick with another superstar and watch them dominate (e.g. Zetterberg-Datsyuk).

I don't think there's anymore to say here. It would seem like a great addition but I would just have a bad feeling about it.

[Tony]

No offense BTH but you make it sound like Antropov and Ponikarovsky made Sundin the current player he is. Antropov scored more than 20 goals for the first time ever (he has 26 in all) in his career while Ponikarovsky is looking more like a 20 goal scorer.

Excluding in Toronto, both these guys would be tagged a career third liner based on their point production and size.

[BTH]

No offense BTH but you make it sound like Antropov and Ponikarovsky made Sundin the current player he is. Antropov scored more than 20 goals for the first time ever (he has 26 in all) in his career while Ponikarovsky is looking more like a 20 goal scorer.

Excluding in Toronto, both these guys would be tagged a career third liner based on their point production and size.

I didn't say they were great players. But they are the kind of player Sundin needs on his wing. Ryan Malone and Tomas Holmstrom are other good ones. I don't really think Sundin's the kind of guy you want a Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson line.

[Tony]

Funny you mention that seeing at the 2006 World Cup of Hockey in Turin, the majority of Sundin's point came through playing with either or both Alfredsson and Forsberg.

[Mont Royale]

I'm surprised at how many fans still underestimate the "professionalism" - not to say businesslike cynicism - of most atheletes. People talk as though Sundin is a True Blue Maple Leaf who, if he goes the UFA route, won't be able to "stand" playing for their biggest rival (and incidentally, Detroit is almost as hated a traditional rival as Montreal in TO). Or they think Koivu will hate him because of the Leafs days, or even his Swedishness. Or, for that matter, they talk as though Vinnie Lecavalier is just DYING to play for his "beloved" hometown Habs.

Wake up and smell the 8-million-dollar latte, folks. Sundin is a pro and this is a business decision, full stop. If he becomes a UFA he almost certainly will play with ANYONE who a) pays him a huge amount and b) gives him a chance to win. Koivu and Kovalev will do handstands at the acquisition of a player who gives THEM a chance to win. Much in the same way, I seriously doubt that Lecavalier gives a rat's ass about the :hlogo: - if he leaves TB it will be for similar reasons (money + chance to win). If the Habs offer both, plus maybe a few other intangibles (such as an attractive city) he'll sign with us; if not, he won't. C.f. Daniel Briere. Players are loyal to a sweater for nothing more than the duration of their contracts. It amazes me, frankly, that fans don't have the same attitude - loyalty to players for that same duration.

I agree that many fans get hung up on sentimentality or emotional connections. However, I think it's fair to say that Sundin would be hesitant to sign with the Habs, for the self-interested reason of his legacy. Having spent so long in Toronto, having denied them the chance to gain valuable return at the trade deadline, I know many Leafs fans and, quite likely, management, will be pissed off if he then decided to sign with a main rival. It would be a serious tarnish an otherwise unblemished Leafs' career in the minds of many fans. There are bound to be many teams interested in his services on July 1, and I would be surprised if he chose us if there's similar money available elsewhere, as there surely will be.

[Wamsley01]

There isn't much I can add without going around in circles. I agree that he would probably be the best player on our team next season (the only potential exceptions would be Kovalev and to a much lesser extent Price). I just feel that a team in our position - that is to say, a team that is "one player away" - should be sure to make that one player one fits right into the team, one that you can slip right into a hole you have in your lines.

I don't feel like Sundin would do that, nor do I think he would get 100 points. Wamsley, you used to talk about how the experts would give the same lazy analysis each time they predicted how the Habs would do last season. "They relied on their PP, they lost Souray who's good on the PP, they're going to be 13th in the East." I think that guaranteeing Sundin could get 100 points with the Habs is the same sort of lazy analysis. "He had something like 80 points on a terrible team. We have the #1 offence in the league so he could get 100 points on our team." I said it earlier, but I feel that Antropov and Ponikarovsky are better linematers for Sundin than anyone we have except for maybe Higgins. I'm not saying they are better players than our guys, just more likely to succeed on his line because he needs other big guys to cycle around the boards with him. He isn't really the type of guy you stick with another superstar and watch them dominate (e.g. Zetterberg-Datsyuk).

I don't think there's anymore to say here. It would seem like a great addition but I would just have a bad feeling about it.

Did I say that Sundin would get 100 points with the Habs? I am to lazy to go back and read my previous posts.

I disagree about Antropov and Ponikoravsky. I watch a large number of Leaf games and he makes them productive.

Antropov and Ponikoravsky are average skaters who need 10 chances to score 1 goal. Anything they create is off a cycle or

handed to them on a platter by Mats. I don't think that Sundin is a 100 pt scorer under any circumstance anymore.

But no matter who his linemates are he puts up 80 points every year.

But I am interested to see how productive he would be if he played with a Kovalev on his wing. His best season on the Nords just

happened to coincide when he was surrounded by Owen Nolan, Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg and Adam Deadmarsh. The Nords played

an up tempo offensive game and he thrived. He cannot carry a top line anymore. In Montreal, he would not have to.

I think Sundin can create off the rush, off the cycle, as a triggerman, as a setup man. He is a complete centerman and

surrounded by guy who is a deadly finisher like Kovalev could be fun to watch.

I think he changes the dynamic of this team for the better and scares the hell out of the league in the process

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree that many fans get hung up on sentimentality or emotional connections. However, I think it's fair to say that Sundin would be hesitant to sign with the Habs, for the self-interested reason of his legacy. Having spent so long in Toronto, having denied them the chance to gain valuable return at the trade deadline, I know many Leafs fans and, quite likely, management, will be pissed off if he then decided to sign with a main rival. It would be a serious tarnish an otherwise unblemished Leafs' career in the minds of many fans. There are bound to be many teams interested in his services on July 1, and I would be surprised if he chose us if there's similar money available elsewhere, as there surely will be.

Interesting. I just disagree. Once Sundin has decided to leave Toronto, he will cease to give a sh*t what Toronto fans say. Certainly, if I were Sundin, my attitude would be that if a decade of sweating blood for the organization isn't enough to cement my "legacy" then the hell with it - especially considering that the organization tried to break its ties with ME first. That's not to say he'll pick Montreal, mind (I think he'll go to Detroit), but I seriously doubt these sentimental considerations will make much difference.

[Ecurb]

Did I say that Sundin would get 100 points with the Habs? I am to lazy to go back and read my previous posts.

I disagree about Antropov and Ponikoravsky. I watch a large number of Leaf games and he makes them productive.

Antropov and Ponikoravsky are average skaters who need 10 chances to score 1 goal. Anything they create is off a cycle or

handed to them on a platter by Mats. I don't think that Sundin is a 100 pt scorer under any circumstance anymore.

But no matter who his linemates are he puts up 80 points every year.

But I am interested to see how productive he would be if he played with a Kovalev on his wing. His best season on the Nords just

happened to coincide when he was surrounded by Owen Nolan, Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg and Adam Deadmarsh. The Nords played

an up tempo offensive game and he thrived. He cannot carry a top line anymore. In Montreal, he would not have to.

I think Sundin can create off the rush, off the cycle, as a triggerman, as a setup man. He is a complete centerman and

surrounded by guy who is a deadly finisher like Kovalev could be fun to watch.

I think he changes the dynamic of this team for the better and scares the hell out of the league in the process

If our top 3 C's are Sundin,Plekanec and Koivu we are a 3 line elite team.

Chipchura,Lapierre,Stewart fighting for 4th line postions with Begin and Kostopoulos, I

can deal with that.

Our top 6 wingers are Kovalev,Higgins,AKostitsyn,SKostitsyn and Latendresse.

I kept thinking we needed to add a winger to contend.

But then someone mentioned Grabovsky, and I remembered what he did.

Grab at LW and AKost moved to RW makes me think we have the wingers.

Grabovsky with his skill set, added to Sundin's and Kovalev's, might be something

special.

[Chris]

Grabovski is a career AHLer. There is no place on this team for him. He didn't impress me at all during his games.

If you add a sundin it opens up many options.

He could play with Lats and Sk. leaving higgins and Koivu together. Sundin could play with Higgins and SK.

WIth the addition of Sundin, i assume Lapierre moves to wing and Chipchura goes with Kosto Begin and Stewart.

[Wamsley01]

Grabovski is a career AHLer. There is no place on this team for him. He didn't impress me at all during his games.

If you add a sundin it opens up many options.

He could play with Lats and Sk. leaving higgins and Koivu together. Sundin could play with Higgins and SK.

WIth the addition of Sundin, i assume Lapierre moves to wing and Chipchura goes with Kosto Begin and Stewart.

I have a feeling that the Leafs are making misguided moves to keep him. This whole Wilson thing is just bizarre.

First Fletcher said he would not make any decisions regarding the coach, then fires Maurice and says he would

not be the one to hire a new coach and now is on the verge of hiring Wilson.

If Sundin stays in T.O. the combination of him and Toskala will assure they do not get Tavares. If he becomes a UFA

then Montreal will have a shot at signing him.

Win/Win situation as far as I am concerned.

[Tony]

Grabovski does have some NHL upside. Patience is key with him. The team has shown so much patience for Latendresse and still is, the least they can do is try with Grabovski.

Stewart is going down the farm. Too much stuff to polish before he gets an NHL role.

[Chris]

Lats is a 20 year old pwer forward. I think Grabs is like 24 and a smurf. The habs have plenty of them. I have no doubt his speed id NHl calibre but who can he beat out on this roster?

There are teams where Grabs may be able to play.

[Tony]

Hard to tell since he was never really tried as a winger so often. Who knows, maybe he'll be the guy who gets promoted if a combination of Streit, Smolinski and Ryder a let go.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Sundin or not - I'm loving this. Let's face it. Even though they haven't admitted it (and I'm smarter than to bring it up to them) the rumours of Sundin to Montreal is probably creating "LeafNation Acid Indigestion". Even if this is all false rumour fodder, I bet it still stings.

Revenge for when they got Corson from us as a UFA smiling with Gary Roberts. Revenge for Nieuwendyk and Mogilny and when they had those good teams. Revenge for when many Leaf fans said to me in 2000, "we're stacked hahahahaha".

Looks good on ya even if we don't get Sundin.

Enjoy my fellow Habs fans.

PS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[BTH]

Did I say that Sundin would get 100 points with the Habs? I am to lazy to go back and read my previous posts.

I disagree about Antropov and Ponikoravsky. I watch a large number of Leaf games and he makes them productive.

Antropov and Ponikoravsky are average skaters who need 10 chances to score 1 goal. Anything they create is off a cycle or

handed to them on a platter by Mats. I don't think that Sundin is a 100 pt scorer under any circumstance anymore.

But no matter who his linemates are he puts up 80 points every year.

But I am interested to see how productive he would be if he played with a Kovalev on his wing. His best season on the Nords just

happened to coincide when he was surrounded by Owen Nolan, Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg and Adam Deadmarsh. The Nords played

an up tempo offensive game and he thrived. He cannot carry a top line anymore. In Montreal, he would not have to.

I think Sundin can create off the rush, off the cycle, as a triggerman, as a setup man. He is a complete centerman and

surrounded by guy who is a deadly finisher like Kovalev could be fun to watch.

I think he changes the dynamic of this team for the better and scares the hell out of the league in the process

Fair enough. I can't remember what you said - I believe JMMR said he would easily get 100 points on our team and then you agreed, maybe yuo were just agreeing with the post in general and not with that statement. Like I've said, there's nothing I can add here that hasn't been said. I just hope we go for a winger instead of a centre. I even like Jagr as an option.

Grabovski is a career AHLer. There is no place on this team for him. He didn't impress me at all during his games.

If you add a sundin it opens up many options.

He could play with Lats and Sk. leaving higgins and Koivu together. Sundin could play with Higgins and SK.

WIth the addition of Sundin, i assume Lapierre moves to wing and Chipchura goes with Kosto Begin and Stewart.

I agree that we shouldn't have plans for Grabovski as a top 2 line forward but his work ethic is what makes me think that he atleast has NHL potential. Even when he was on the fourth line, he was working hard, he actually looks something like what Samsonov did when he played with us - the reason why Samsonov was a huge bust was because he was a lot older, a lot more expensive and the expectations on him were a lot higher, Grabovski playing at this level is acceptable. I don't expect him to ever get hold of a spot on our team though, we are simply too deep, especially at the things he provides.

Grabovski does have some NHL upside. Patience is key with him. The team has shown so much patience for Latendresse and still is, the least they can do is try with Grabovski.

Stewart is going down the farm. Too much stuff to polish before he gets an NHL role.

I think the concern with Grabovski is more how much patience he has with us than how much we have for him. I doubt Gainey has a problem keeping a young and talented player on the team as long as he is not a distraction. There is a good chance though that Grabs will request a trade or fly away home.

[Tony]

I don't know why but I always get the impression that Grabovski is getting bad advice from his agent.

[JoeLassister]

IMO Grabovski = first decent offer from Russia Superligue and he's gone.

I'm not even sure i would want him on the team anyway. My man is D'Agostini !

[Ecurb]

I don't think we should dismiss Grabovsky, until he's given a legit chance.

Ya, I don't like his size.

Ya, I think he's been given bad advice.

But, there was a period in the AHL where he dominated. I think he was

averaging 4-5 point per game over several weeks. I don't ever remember

any of our prospects doing that.

He got, I think, 7 or 8 points over 12 games in the NHL when finally given a

chance and that was with 10-12 minutes a game.

He intrigues me in that he has excellent speed, can both score and setup

goals. He could be the next Briere or St. Louis.

[Habsfan]

I agree with everything the cucumber said. Sundin would be worth it. The Habs' biggest weakness is the lack of talented Size up front...especially down the middle. Sundin would immediately fix that problem.

GIve him 15 million over 2 years(front loaded...like 10 million the 1st year and 5 million the 2nd year) and make sure he plays with talented wingers.

For all of you who are still dreaming of seeing Vinny LEcavalier in Montreal, i thiink it's safe to say we can FORGETABOUTIT!!!

The Guy gets to go to the arena wearing sandals on his feet. He never has to shovel snow or clear his driveway. It's always warm in Tampa. He's rich and nobody recognizes him when he does his groceries or is out on the town. He has almost no pressure and did I say that he enjoy's living in a warm environment!?!?!

You can bet your house that Tampa will offer him something like 50 million$ for 5 years. THey will NEVER let him go!

[InsaneHABSfan]

Leafs GM keeps talking up Sundin like an elite player, so that tells me he has a high % to be signed by leafs. Oh well I hope he takes a good look at the laughs and decides to go to the Habs.