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Gainey: Genius?


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shot differential does make a difference. It's simple math. Most NHl goalies stop around 92% of the shots. If you take 20 and give up 40. Your more likely to lose more then you win.

Obviously there are still exceptions, a hot goalie, poor offensive teams etc.

last year the Habs were significantly better in that stat and they had a better record.

The expectations of this board leaped to ridiculous levels over 3-4 months. This team OVERACHIEVED last season.

They now have the potential to accomplish what they did last season. Overachieving for this team would be a Stanley Cup now.

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I agree with that Wamsley. They are realistically a solid playoff team. They could win there division or fall to third. They have a year of hard work behind them, will they sit around and read how great they are or try to improve. On paper they are better.

GC had them playing harder then any team since before i got a satelite dish. In my opinion Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay are playing for contracts, will they improve?

Will the young guys step up? GC seems to get way more out of the youth then the vets.

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I agree with that Wamsley. They are realistically a solid playoff team. They could win there division or fall to third. They have a year of hard work behind them, will they sit around and read how great they are or try to improve. On paper they are better.

GC had them playing harder then any team since before i got a satelite dish. In my opinion Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay are playing for contracts, will they improve?

Will the young guys step up? GC seems to get way more out of the youth then the vets.

Yeah, who knows what is going to come out of Ottawa and the Sabres are a hell of a lot better than what they showed last season.

Bruins are better, but I think they will be overrated because of that playoff series as a sleeper by the idiots who run all the magazines.

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Yeah, who knows what is going to come out of Ottawa and the Sabres are a hell of a lot better than what they showed last season.

Bruins are better, but I think they will be overrated because of that playoff series as a sleeper by the idiots who run all the magazines.

true, but the pens are not as impressive and neither are the Flyers or the Devils! The Rangers without Jagr are certainly not a better team!

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I don't get this hype about the outshot statistic. Who cares really ? Finishing 1rst of the East while being outshot 48 times means 1 thing : we allow many crapy shots. The Habs goaltending has not been THAT awesome last season.

Here is the only statistic about outshooting that counts to me :

Habs outshooting opponents :

17 W 8 L 3 OTL .607 W%

Habs being outshoted :

28 W 15 L 5 OTL .583 W%

Overall, our goaltending was weak last season and that's including Price, Huet and Halak. We didn't get what we were used to getting from Huet and Theodore in their prime seasons.

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Overall, our goaltending was weak last season and that's including Price, Huet and Halak. We didn't get what we were used to getting from Huet and Theodore in their prime seasons.

That is my biggest concern heading into this season. Too many here are quick to anoint Price as the 'real deal'....I want to see him play solid hockey CONSISTENTLY before I'm sold on that notion.

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That is my biggest concern heading into this season. Too many here are quick to anoint Price as the 'real deal'....I want to see him play solid hockey CONSISTENTLY before I'm sold on that notion.

I know for a fact he is the real deal. I don't know for a fact that he will be a superstar this coming season so there is still some mystery there. One thing we can bank on is that good or not, our goaltending will probably improve as the year goes on (as will our team, really). I'm high on Price and I expect him to be great for us this year but I think it might be an inconsistent first half before he pulls himself together and emerges as a top starter in the league at 21.

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I know for a fact he is the real deal.

No you don't. Nobody does. For all we know he's spending all offseason worrying that his glove hand isn't good enough and he'll become the next Jim Carrey. I'm not saying that is happening or is even likely. I'm simply saying it is a possibility and nothing in the future is fact that isn't already fact in the present.

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jeez Lazy, why don't you make like a tree and get out of here!

lol

All right then, I'll LEAVE! And take my book with me!

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No you don't. Nobody does. For all we know he's spending all offseason worrying that his glove hand isn't good enough and he'll become the next Jim Carrey. I'm not saying that is happening or is even likely. I'm simply saying it is a possibility and nothing in the future is fact that isn't already fact in the present.

so damn true. Luc Bourdon anyone ? :(

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Except for the last bits, this thread has gotten interesting lately. There are indeed many traps the team could still fall into.

The best case scenario has the team, as a whole, learning three big lessons from last season.

One is that they are loaded with talent and can win games on that basis (you know, it's fine to talk about taking periods off, not being consistent, etc., but the fact is that the Habs won a disproportionate number of those games, through sheer talent). This can give them that swagger and confidence that winners tend to have.

The second is that talent is not enough to be a really good team; you do indeed have to bring it every shift. I don't think it's simply a matter of willpower and character. It also has to do with understanding how to pace your mind and body for the rigours of a preposterously long and punishing season, and also with skilled coaching that enables players to do that. All our young players are likely still absorbing the finer points of NHL hockey in this sense. I thought they made strides in this respect, though.

Third, the playoffs are a whole other level - the most important lesson of all, in the long run.

Have these lessons been learned? Impossible to say, but I certainly would expect a more playoff-ready club next season, mentally speaking. The other two are up in the air. One would hope for a mostly linear arc of development, as exemplified by Plekanec.

The big trap, as I see it, is that this young team will read its own notices - rather as they seemed to do in the Boston series - and completely forget the second lesson. Indeed, if we sign Sundin, it's conceivable this could compound the problem of overconfidence. Worst case scenario, the kids will spend the first half of the season waiting around for Tanguay, Koviu, Sundin, and Kovalev to do everything, and only wake up to the necessity of their contribution when it's almost too late. I've seen stranger things than a stacked team lurch its way through a season in this way.

Another possibility is a regression by Price. Doesn't seem likely (and frankly I find it a bit disasteful to bring up Bourdon here - it feels like a jinx, in addition to referencing an awful tragedy in a trivial context). I believe in Halak, and besides, it's hard to credit that Gainey and Timmins could be so wildly wrong about the kid.

All I know is that we've got as exciting a team as we could possibly have expected going into the centennial, and it's gonna be one hell of a ride no matter what. I'm savouring every moment of this: life as a fan of a GOOD TEAM. :clap:

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Another possibility is a regression by Price. Doesn't seem likely (and frankly I find it a bit disasteful to bring up Bourdon here - it feels like a jinx, in addition to referencing an awful tragedy in a trivial context). I believe in Halak, and besides, it's hard to credit that Gainey and Timmins could be so wildly wrong about the kid.

All I know is that we've got as exciting a team as we could possibly have expected going into the centennial, and it's gonna be one hell of a ride no matter what. I'm savouring every moment of this: life as a fan of a GOOD TEAM. :clap:

:unsure: Should I feel guilty or something ? You know, they bring this story up almost twice a month on local tv. I saw a 2min interview with Kris Letang all about his mental recovering from this incident 2 days ago on rds.

But since I am concerned :

nojinxsb9.png

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The expectations of this board leaped to ridiculous levels over 3-4 months. This team OVERACHIEVED last season.

They now have the potential to accomplish what they did last season. Overachieving for this team would be a Stanley Cup now.

I don't think the team overachieved... I think we were behind in terms of progression because of Carbonneau and Gainey's conservative ways, and that we actually underachieved the previous season. This team - at least to me - was so much better than most people's expectations before the season. Fortunalety, and partly thanks to a few injuries and the failure of some "veterans", the team was forced to give more responsabilities to younger players, and we are right back on track.

After all, Carbonneau's solution to a struggling team at some was to put Mathieu Dandeneault - already useless on a 4th line - on the Saku Koivu line... let's not forget about his other great ideas like doing the same with Begin and Kostopoulos... anyways, once we begin using the likes of Brisebois, Dandeneault ... as reserve players, and gave the better kids a chance to play (the Kostsitsyns, O'Byrne, Lapierre, ...) things changed for the best (until Carbonneau made the same stupid mistakes to start the playoffs).

Like I said, I except the results to be the same... but for the team to be in better control of games, to lose that appearance of overachieving, but playing like they shoud. In other words, less "Miracle on Ice...y" and more "Detroit Red Wings...y".

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Geez, even when GC takes a team (picked out of the playoffs, didn't make the playoffs the year before) to the top of the confrence and a win in the first round he still gets bashed.

Maybe he needs to go 82-0 to catch a break. 16 and 0 in the playffs.

GC has these guys playing at a high level, i'm safisfied with that .

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Geez, even when GC takes a team (picked out of the playoffs, didn't make the playoffs the year before) to the top of the confrence and a win in the first round he still gets bashed.

Maybe he needs to go 82-0 to catch a break. 16 and 0 in the playffs.

GC has these guys playing at a high level, i'm safisfied with that .

Wow... some people are so sentitive when it comes to semi-Gods Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey; you can't make a simple remark about them without being accused of being a hater and bashing them.

Did you really feel that the team would turn things around last season when the team wasn't doing so well before the holidays, and Carbonneau decided to use Mathieu Dandeneault on a top offensive line? Personally I think he panicking at the idea of another terrible streak, he was improvising, and had no clue whatsoever how to turn things around (putting Begin, Kostopoulos, or Mark Streit on that line wasn't any better).

If things had gone only slightly better, I wonder if Sergei Kostsitsyn and Ryan O'Byrne wouldn't still be in Hamilton... or if Andrei Kostsitsyn woudn't have signed a gif contract in Russia over this summer.

I think Guy Carbonneau did a great job motivating players last season, and getting a good consistent effort from everyone; I can't name one player I feel didn't give a good effort every game during the regular season. That's very good.

However, strategy and system-wise, I haven't seen much from from Carbonneau. Players played hard, but they played a little dumb, improvising from one game to another. Skills and roster depth brought us a lot of success last season. In the playoffs, he definitely was outcoached in both series, the Bruins and Flyers protected the front of the net, but the Habs never adapted their game (especially on the power play) which relied a lot on long passes from one side to the other.

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I'm not sensative, i just think that GC and BG have turned the ship around. Young talent has alot to do with it.

The players always seem to get the pass. What has Koivu actually delivered this franchise to. Other vets have come and gone with poor results.

I just think GC and BG deserve alot of credit for what they have done. the last 15 years or so the work ethic was next to nothing, coaching changed that.

I actually like your comments even though i don't always agree.

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I'm not sensative, i just think that GC and BG have turned the ship around. Young talent has alot to do with it.

The players always seem to get the pass. What has Koivu actually delivered this franchise to. Other vets have come and gone with poor results.

I just think GC and BG deserve alot of credit for what they have done. the last 15 years or so the work ethic was next to nothing, coaching changed that.

I actually like your comments even though i don't always agree.

I agree about certain players getting a free pass. I am not going to name names because I don't want to send

this thread into another you can't say that about my hero debate.

Carbonneau was a rookie playoff coach, Price collapses and everybody is on here saying he was fatigued, the pressure,

he is a kid. Well Carbo may have been outcoached by Julien because of experience, but they still won the series with

a team of kids and a 20 year old goalie.

Did Carbonneau get outcoached against Philly? Would Scotty Bowman have won that series with that goaltending?

And Halak was no better, he had every opportunity to come in and change that series.

The Habs were not good enough to win that series. Simple as that. Breaks, discipline, goaltending, timely goals,

disappearing power play cannot be all laid at the feet of Carbo.

But I think plenty of lessons were learned in their 12 game experience, lessons that will impact the upcoming 2009 Season.

Edited by Wamsley01
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I think just the opposite more consistency throughout the season will push this teams young players to preform better and better every single night. Also another good thing to try is to not be over .500 in the final 10 games of the season.

???

Am I the only one not getting this? You suggesting we should tank the end of the season?

Basically, stay hungry and don't waltz in too confident.

None of the last 7 or some odd cup winners have had been above .500 in their final 10 games.

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None of the last 7 or some odd cup winners have had been above .500 in their final 10 games.

2008 - Detroit - 7-2-1

2007 - Anaheim - 5-3-2

2006 - Carolina - 5-3-2

2004 - Tampa Bay - 5-4-1

2003 - New Jersey - 6-4

2002 - Detroit - 1-3-4-2

2001 - Colorado - 6-3-1

2000 - New Jersey - 5-5

Only one team in the last 8 years was below .500. The Wings in 2002.

Carolina and Anaheim technically were .500 but were awarded 1 point for their OT losses to push them above.

Same with Tampa in 2004.

Those are all respectable records, but shows by no means do you need to be hot going into the playoffs.

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I woudn't say he's a genius. Frankly, I can't think of a hockey manager who qualifies. Pollock, maybe, but even he suffered a raft of crummy drafts toward the end of his tenure, and you can argue that he profited by the sheer, manifest idiocy of his competitors in a dismal expansion era.

What I know about Gainey suggests that he incarnates is less "genius" than certain very distinct virtues: rigour, focus, calm, clarity of purpose, courage, patience, profound integrity, and deliberate thoughtfulness. Underlying it all - as we saw during his playing days - is an iron determination and will to win. Pull it together, and it's not a flashy package, but it is one that is likely to be immensely successful over time.

Wow, I've always loved Gainey but never been able to express it so well :clap:

Well done !!! :clap:

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2008 - Detroit - 7-2-1

2007 - Anaheim - 5-3-2

2006 - Carolina - 5-3-2

2004 - Tampa Bay - 5-4-1

2003 - New Jersey - 6-4

2002 - Detroit - 1-3-4-2

2001 - Colorado - 6-3-1

2000 - New Jersey - 5-5

Only one team in the last 8 years was below .500. The Wings in 2002.

Carolina and Anaheim technically were .500 but were awarded 1 point for their OT losses to push them above.

Same with Tampa in 2004.

Those are all respectable records, but shows by no means do you need to be hot going into the playoffs.

Thanks for proving me wrong I read it somewhere and took it as truth.

Thanks for doing the grunt work.

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Thanks for proving me wrong I read it somewhere and took it as truth.

Thanks for doing the grunt work.

Not trying to prove you wrong. Just wanted to fact check. Originally I thought you were

talking about the Habs in 1993 because they really folded in the last month.

It does prove that you do not need to be on a tear going into the playoffs. Every year the

brilliant media look at the hot teams going into the playoffs and annoint them sleepers.

Most of those teams were playing average hockey going in. Probably because they had already

locked in their position weeks before.

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